SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So. Here I am again ready to write another post. Its update time.

Some of you have followed my story. Synopsis is premarriage period of infidelity spanning at least 9 months in 2014, probably longer. 2 regular APs, a handful of one time sexual encounters, an encounter involving two one time partners in the backseat of the primary Aps car while he drove, allegedly not participating. Total denial of any PIV with this cast of colorful characters.

Now 11 years of trickle truth. Ww passed a polygraph in 2024. Subsequent discoveries however, cast doubt(more like discredited) polygraph result.

One of my discoveries was an audit of our old condoms that were lying around the house. This is my initial ledger of my findings.

" December 1, 2024

Telegram app

(Aps name) number in contacts not blocked, hidden contact by putting space in front of no name.

Multiple Secret emails going back to at least when working bev cart all the way to now.

A condom I never recall having an example of the brand(Crown), dont think i had ever seen, cannot buy in store locally, under a sex toy box from 2018 in her bedside drawer. Expired 2015.

Expired 2014 condoms, (trojan spermicidal) only 7 in box. Did not like, used others, usually did not use any. Two 36 count boxes of(trojan magnum) condoms in my bedside drawer. Condoms bought 2019, expiring 2024. Near always left condom wrappers in drawer. Rarely used condoms. boxes from 2019. 37 used condom wrappers in drawer, 16 unopened. 19 condoms unaccounted for. Sometimes used to cover toys, definitely not 19 times. Only one trip since 2019. Did not use any on trip.

Possible some wrappers left on floor and thrown away. Doubtful all accountable that way.

Any of this worthwhile?"

And heres my update;

March 9, 2025.

A little while after my condom audit back in December, one morning I woke up hearing Ww rustling around in her bedside drawer. She informed me she was cleaning up and putting the condom box of 7 condoms inside of the 2018 sex toy box. I didnt think anything of it at the time. I reaudited the condoms today. The number of expired condoms in that box has increased. Previous count was 7. Now there are 10. One of the ten is a trojan magnum expired 2019, not from the set of condoms at bedside drawer. Was from previous box(preceding the ones that expired 2024 in my bedside nightstand) of trojan magnums purchased 2014. Foil wrapper is crinkled, worn and was clearly stored in a wallet or clothing. The other two are trojan spermicidal from this box, now returned but were not present on dec 1, 2024 when I did first audit. (Ww) obviously had them somewhere ready to go from back then(circa 2014-2015), knew where, got them and put them in the box that morning so I wouldnt find.

Conclusion; still covering up, lying, hiding. Considering this checkmate for PIV.

An overnight bag in master closet has 8 trojan magnums expiring 2019 in it. A travel bag has one. These condoms were from the 2014 purchased box. They clearly are not where the three returned condoms came from and are probably from vacations between 2014-2019. But why so many in the overnight bag? Overnight bag also has mouthwash, shampoo, lotion, bodywash, contact case. Maybe nothing to learn here.

Post dinner update:

Confronted Ww about returned condoms on way to dinner this evening. Total Denial. Says one of us is going crazy. Says she is afraid she is doing things and not knowing it. Light accusal of me doing it, same as when jonathans number was not blocked, and individual texts found deleted from our text thread during our review of 2014 texts between us. Admits she might have carried condoms around, but did not use any. She said, "i feel gaslit". Yeah, me too."

We had a later conversation after I wrote this update. It was chock full of the same denials and tapdancing. But I took her upstairs and showed her the condoms. Upon seeing the crinkled magnum, she said, "maybe its from this purse I have in my car that has the perfect pocket to fit condoms". She produced the purse, and indeed, it has perfect zippered pockets to hold condoms. Hmm. She admitted to carrying condoms, but not using them. Says she returned them so I wouldnt find them in the purse because it would "look bad". But doesnt remember actually putting them back.

She began to narrativize that she was carrying the condoms for use with me. I countered that she has never produced a condom for us to use when we were about to have sex, and she admitted she might have been carrying them to use with other people if things got to far, but that they never did. Im so frustrated I could shit.

We just started with a new therapist, a betrayal specialist, a few days after this discovery. First meeting was ok. I have trepidation. Specialist wants to attribute memory problems to alcohol use back during 2014. I think thats bullshit but will see where it goes.

One of the things that has me scratching my head about all this is, why return the ancient expired condoms to the fucking box?

If she threw them out Id have never known. If I had good housekeeping, Id have never known. If I hadnt looked at everything in my world under a microscope, I wouldnt have caught it.

But now I fucking know.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 1:02 AM, Thursday, March 13th]

Hi 5BD....been wondering how you have been. I can say this ...I was completely lost in your accounting...so I cannot check your math by any means!!! But I trust you in that there are descrepancies. And this rightfully would be troubling.

What comes to my mind are two things. First, since there was legitimate evidence which brings into question the credibility of the Polygraph practitioner, why don't you just find one you KNOW has a good reputation and get a polygraph with the new areas of concern thrown into mix.

Next idea....why not find the AP without telling wife, and reach out to him or go talk to him and basically bait him. Say something like...."I just want to check my wife's account of what happened...she said you two only had sex one time at the house that night you all rode in the backseat....is she telling the truth?"

That is just an example...but you get my drift I think. Now I am hoping some more experienced folk here will either confirm or deny this as being a good idea....I honestly don't know. But I can say I have used similar "leading" questions to get truth out of my kids. It does work.

Anyway....hang in there friend. Ask God to guide you.

Whether or not this is innocent, it looks god-awful. What's stopping you from getting two more polys? Two because if she fails the next one she can claim the tester was biased. Three and there's little doubt. That is, unless she passes the second one.
The point is you don't feel safe and have every reason to be suspicious.

Woodthrush,

Always appreciate your kindness. I had researched and found the primary APs number on my own and contacted him. It didnt go great. He denied everything, yelled over me as I explained we were well past that, shouted, "we are not going there, Im an adult now, I have a family" and hung up. Just as well. Put him on notice.

It seems he never grew as a person since those days. Adults dont run from the past or hide the sheets when they piss the bed.

I also spoke to someone present back then who knew us well. She told me she knew what happened, but wouldnt tell me. Moralized that it was a long time ago and that I owed it to Ww to either get it from her or get over it. She blocked me after that.

So talking to people from back then hasnt really helped. There are a few people I could try still, but so far its been poor results.

1994,

The years of conversations of denials and slow grudging admittances has colored this far beyond "looking bad".

A taken woman admitted to having affairs after denying it for a decade only leaves the house with condoms in her purse for one reason. How long am I supposed to accept the next unlikely excuse for why what looks like a duck isnt a duck?

She gaslit me until it was obvious I had her dead to rights, and then she tried saying the condoms were for me. When that failed she said, "ok they were for other men but only if it went that far and it never did, see! if I used them there wouldnt be any left so I didnt use any". She had multiple affairs. The condoms were for cheating. She was in her mid 20’s.

We are now having conversations about trauma based amnesia, repressed memories, and fugue states. Alcohol related brain damage and such. We are at the "i didnt know I was doing" it stage of denial. But of course, she says she obviously didnt have sex because she would definitely remember that. Shes caught. Toast. I know.

Maybe I will indulge another polygraph. Who knows.

If she threw them out Id have never known. If I had good housekeeping, Id have never known. If I hadn’t looked at everything in my world under a microscope, I wouldn't have caught it.

Was she aware you had inventoried them in the past? If so, I would probably return them for that reason? It doesn’t make her innocent I just wondered when I read that.

Reality is- she kept AP’s number for ten years in her phone, she hasn’t shown growth in her integrity for 11 years, she still can’t answer a straight question. You do not trust her as far as you could throw her.

I do not know the whole story, I will go back and read some of your posts. But what are you getting from this relationship that is worth all this? That’s not judging, I know people have their own reasons for staying, I just would like to understand what yours is for context.

This many years of lack of peace is a long sentence for whatever that reason is. I am so sorry you are going through this. At some point you need to find peace, life is very short and I don’t know that you want to have to spend your precious time accounting for all these condoms.

I hate to add fuel to the fire but if she was taking condoms from home she isn’t even good at being sneaky. Go to the store and buy them with groceries, make sure your partner brings them, etc. I also know a good deal of ws don’t even use them. The whole thing is weird.

You don't need to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars on yet another polygraph to find out that your wife is lying liar who lies. In fact, she seems so comfortable with lying that she might even be the type to pass a polygraph, simply because she has no stress response when she lies. Or she's just refuse to accept the results, as she does whenever she's confronted with evidence. She lied to you while you were dating and she's lied to you throughout your marriage.

We are now having conversations about trauma based amnesia, repressed memories, and fugue states.

If your wife had brain damage from alcohol abuse or trauma-induced amnesia, you would be observing all sorts of problems related to memory loss in pretty much every important aspect of her daily life. But affairs are the only thing she can't remember doing? BULLSHIT.

I hate to add fuel to the fire but if she was taking condoms from home she isn’t even good at being sneaky. Go to the store and buy them with groceries, make sure your partner brings them, etc. I also know a good deal of ws don’t even use them. The whole thing is weird.

Her behavior isn't weird or stupid when you consider that this woman has been rubbing OP's nose in her cheating for YEARS. The recklessness and absurdity of her behavior, combined with the regular emotional abuse and contempt she demonstrates toward OP, demonstrate that she enjoys the torment she causes OP and getting away with her affairs almost if not as much as she enjoys screwing around with other men.

In short, OP, use the money you would spend for another polygraph on a retainer for a lawyer.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:56 PM, Thursday, March 13th]

In short, OP, use the money you would spend for another polygraph on a retainer for a lawyer.

I'm not normally in the scorched earth camp, but it may be time to grab a lighter. The POSAP and her friend pressuring you into letting this go has to be a huge drain on your mental state. I'm sorry you have to keep reliving this nightmare.
At this point it may be worthwhile to just assume the worst. Not knowing certainly must be more painful than just assuming the worst; at least then you have agency.
Pretend that she laid out the whole unvarnished truth. That she was a serial cheater up until relatively recently. In your home. With your friends.
What do you do with that information? If she told you everything, then at least you know what to forgive. But as it is she's really leaving you with minimal options.
It may be time...
Stay strong.

In short, OP, use the money you would spend for another polygraph on a retainer for a lawyer.

^^^ I'm in this camp. There is just too much here and so many smoking guns. Why would you want to save this? There are so many better people out there. I couldn't get passed any of the above but that is me.

Her behavior isn't weird or stupid when you consider that this woman has been rubbing OP's nose in her cheating for YEARS. The recklessness and absurdity of her behavior, combined with the regular emotional abuse and contempt she demonstrates toward OP, demonstrate that she enjoys the torment she causes OP and getting away with her affairs almost if not as much as she enjoys screwing around with other men.

In short, OP, use the money you would spend for another polygraph on a retainer for a lawyer.

Ah, thanks for the bit of a catch up.

I was having a hard time framing this but was so disturbed he had to have such an in depth inventory of the condoms. I see it now, she has completely kept him off balance and abused for so many years.

I am never scorched earth either. Very few times. But gently, you don’t need more proof. I would echo Blue’s statement- use the money for a lawyer and also get some therapy. This woman has abused you for so long that you need a way to start unwinding a lot of this trauma. This honestly sounds like one of the worst cases I have seen here and I have been around going in 8 years. This is not how you want to spend your time, you deserve so much more out of life.

I've been following since the beginning, and I'm watching the marriage break down little by little. The trust is gone. Buried. The kind of buried where it may never return, because you've uncovered so many discrepancies that prove she continues to hide things from you. You'll likely never know how much truth there is out there. There are people out there who know, but refuse to tell you (I've been there, and it's absolutely maddening).

I never want to be the one to say the marriage is circling the drain, but at some point you're going to come to the conclusion that you aren't happy in this anymore, and may never be again if you're being honest with yourself.

So you contacted AP years ago? In any case, I still wonder if you tried again real calmly and tossed the bait ...that "she said you two only had sex once...you just want coroboration that she is being truthful so you can get it behind you". I don't know ...I think I would try it. Who knows, maybe he has softened over the years. And I would say same thing to that other person you said knows. Anyway friend...i am so sorry.

I know others are thinking she is making sport of this almost. I don't know. But I do know if you ask God for wisdom, He can really open your understanding to see any games she is playing...or lies she is hiding. I really hope you get a 100% full disclosure so you can really start healing. Please keep posted.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 10:09 PM, Thursday, March 13th]

Lord, I am no expert and there are so many smart and experienced people on this forum. And honestly, I glanced over their replies because what immediately stuck out to me of how much mental energy you are spending on your relationship. I’m guilty of the exact same thing so not judging you at all. I just wonder if that energy and tip toeing and balancing tells you anything about how you want to spend your life? My heart is with you.

I’m sorry for the situation you are in. I entirely relate to the craziness but the deep desire to hold on to some good thoughts about her.

I’m not sure if it’s helpful to you or not, but everything she is saying is completely absurd. Bluer seems to have a solid bead on her (as she typically does). I know she’s your wife, but the person you thought you were married to probably doesn’t exist.

Also, if there was a competition for best thread name of the year, you would have my vote!

My dear friends, who through your hard won experiences know how it feels,

I thank you all for giving me a view of your perspective. It means everything to me at this point in my life where hope seems so foreign.

Id like to reply to each of you! Im overwhelmed and tend to write books of shit that must be fairly hard to parse. Yet the words do no justice to the feelings and each time I try I fall short.

My wife isnt lying, gaslighting, abusing me out of malice. She is doing those things, but Its fear. Shes a trapped animal, a desperate and scared little girl, wrestling for control. She is choosing self preservation. Its cowardice. An inability to face what shes done. A perfectionist being forced to face the difference between her story of who she is and things that she has done that undermine it.

She isnt a bad person, I know otherwise.
Some of you have asked what there is to stay for. There is a whole world of reasons. She has a very kind heart, as hard as it is to believe. Youve seen the cheater, but you havent been shown the person. We have in every other way, a wonderful partnership. She isnt otherwise perfect, mind you, but she is thoughtful, gentle, caring, loving, hardworking, and means by her actions to be a decent person, every day. Those things are still true. The lies and the betrayal are also true. It frustrates me to no end.

Its 2025, and last years efforts and the revelations at its end tell me a story of her attempting to go through reconciliation without honesty. She tried to Get Away With It.
That lack of honesty means she cant truly do the work until she can (or cant).

I dont know how its going to end. I just know its terrible. I will never believe she didnt fuck those scrubs. I know she did. The debauchery doesnt matter, its the fabricated reality, the small cage she put me in. Us in.
Knowing the whole truth And depth of the betrayal might not be possible, or even worth any more of my mental real estate, given her refusal.

Living with that might or might not be possible. The dream that she wouldve never done this to me because of how special I am to her is dead, and her continued selfish hiding of her flaws has condemned me to pain and quiet resentment, stained the beauty of our shared life with every moment we built something good while she knew and I labored under her misrepresentations. A third of my life. Two thirds of the relationship.

Im taking it one day at a time. Im grieving, and Im still here. Praying on it.

My wife isnt lying, gaslighting, abusing me out of malice. She is doing those things, but Its fear. Shes a trapped animal, a desperate and scared little girl, wrestling for control. She is choosing self preservation. Its cowardice.

Again, I completely relate to where you are right now. I have multiple 15+ page threads where I tried to make that line of thinking work in the context of R. It just doesn’t. You will erode your own spirit if you keep trying to emotionally connect with a person like your wife.

You don’t have to hate her, but you don’t have to stay with her either. The good she is currently offering will never offset the searing awfulness of the festering betrayal. She won’t even give you the respect of telling you the truth.

You are in an awful situation, I hope you aren’t trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Op, I know you want to believe that your WW is a trapped animal in preservation mode and deep down is a really good person, but she has done and continues to do these things to you while she bears witness to the effects her action have on you in real time. Though I can't remember your history, from this thread, you seem like a decent thoughtful person. If the roles were reversed, would you continue to inflict trauma on the woman you claim to love? She seems okay with it so long as she gets what she wants.

You are burning up your one precious life trying to salvage this M, and for what? Tomorrow will probably be like today which was like yesterday. If this is okay for you, then good, but I think it's not. The fact that you are posting indicates how much you still struggle with this. By staying, you've chosen the prison you will endure. Is that what you want?

You are burning up your one precious life trying to salvage this M, and for what? Tomorrow will probably be like today which was like yesterday. If this is okay for you, then good, but I think it's not. The fact that you are posting indicates how much you still struggle with this. By staying, you've chosen the prison you will endure. Is that what you want?

Completely agree. She’s showing ZERO evidence that she’ll ever change, and all kinds of evidence she’s more firmly set than bone-dried concrete. The question you must ask yourself is this:

Are you just fine living the way you’re living now? Her continued denials, abuse, continued refusal to be honest with you? You know in your bones she cheated physically. Zero chance cons stay around for only an EA. ZERO.

You need to ask yourself if you can keep white-knuckling it for the rest of your life. If enduring this nightmare (granted, from my perspective) for perhaps decades more gives you a warm-fuzzy feeling or anything else you desire, then great! Carry on!

If not, consider a legal separation. I know you’re adverse to D, so why not set up a formal separation, along with a lawyer-crafted separation agreement? If your wife later has a true "come to Jesus" moment, where she discloses the FULL truth, and reaches TRUE remorse (defined by being 10 times more concerned about YOU than with herself), you can always decide to come back together. If she never does, the legal separation agreement forms the basis for a potential D, should things ever come to that. No need to re-litigate.

I highly suspect you’re like how I used to be with "KISA Syndrome" (Knight in Shining Armor). Due to my own low self esteem & codependency, I looked for essentially broken women I could rescue/help/whatever. I can’t even begin to tell you how effed up that is! But hey, it could be just me, right?

Inkhulk,

Ive gone and familiarized myself with much of your situation. Im sorry you went through all of that. And you are giving me a cautionary glimpse. I can see your decency and love spelled out on every page, the plainness of both your rational intellect and the irrational situation forced on you.

I can see that theres no way to outsmart the problem. The horse cant always be made to drink when you drag it to the water.

You know better than I that for all the caution and advice offered by others, you had to bring your situation every bit of yourself. No one could walk that path before you and save you the pain. You had to see it for yourself.

Its the same for me.

But I appreciate you a great deal, trying to save me. Im under no illusions about how dire the situation is.

Justsomeguy,

Youve got me pegged here. No bones about it.

I dont want the situation, and being 38, with my father having died in his 60s, the 10,000-20,000 days I have left (if things go well) to live are staring me in the face with every one that goes by in this living hell.

Theres light and laughter some days, plenty of love and sex, and of course, the pain of the situation. Weighing all that is as you suggested, an onerous struggle for me.

I wont let myself regret not having fought for it. So Im in the fight. If I change my mind, Ill be here saying so.

Gr8ful,

I never considered myself as having knight in shining armor syndrome. I wont deny that its possible. Frankly, when I met my wife I was the broken one by my recognizance. She seemed a little lonely, I suppose. It was an interesting moment, meeting someone who made me want to try again. I did see that men werent giving her a fair chance at a relationship, just using her, And I found myself wanting that, with her, so your postulation has merit.

It surprised me about myself because I had decided that those things(love, relationships, monogamy) didnt work out and people who believed in them were lying to themselves. For how crazy she is and was about me, I never saw it coming.

I am a serial victim of serial cheaters. Ive tried to see what about me choosing women lead to those kinds of situations, but the women couldnt be more different apart from that.

You know better than I that for all the caution and advice offered by others, you had to bring your situation every bit of yourself. No one could walk that path before you and save you the pain. You had to see it for yourself.

Its the same for me.

I genuinely weep for you. But I understand.

I too understand that everyone has their own process they need to get through.

I understand waywardness. And I think people can sometimes redeem themselves and go on to live happy lives. We are all light and dark, so I don’t dispute any of that. My own journey has been to keep gravitating towards the light since discovery , yet I abused my husband horribly too.

But as gr8tful points out she he continue to do this for years with first hand look at the damage. Your wife does have complex issues, I don’t disagree. I could not have watched that man choke down his shit sandwich knowingly continuing to lie to his face. There is something far more than just a cage of fear.

The bigger concern here, is your mental health. You are 11 years into your journey and inventorying condoms because your wife does not have the capability to love you. If she did, she would see she has driven you to a desperation (understandably) to find the truth. The way you describe this down to when they were bought just screams how unsafe this relationship has been for you.

I agree, there is likelihood of PIV. Not many hover over that boundary and has multiple affairs and opportunities. I also think the PIV is a straw man argument. Because you think not having that gives you license to stay. But you feel she has done that and you still stay.

I respect you are not ready to make any moves and want to give her the opportunity to grow through therapy but someone like that isn’t just a caged animal full of fear, they are missing a conscience. This isn’t effecting her the way it’s effecting you and I think the audience here is very concerned about the continuation of the damages you are inflicting on yourself.

So what I would advise if you are staying in this would be to figure out the way to loving yourself that you see your boundaries and mental health and place it of a more than equal importance than the patience you have for her issues. you must protect yourself, your self respect, and see that you are more important than the relationship you are in. (Sorry to steal your quote ink but it is exactly what he needs to see)

So focus on your own self work. This will not only help you not be taken from the shore in the abyss of her ocean but you would be surprised how free one can feel when they expect and command more because they know they are worthy of it. This renewed confidence will likely lead to one of two places: she will be truly afraid enough of losing you that she will tell, or you will see this for what it likely is. She knows she has the upper hand here, I assure you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:59 PM, Monday, March 17th]