SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Honestly... I gave up on the timeline with the purchase dates and expiration dates and the quantities and all that.
What I do however think I grasp correctly is this:
Since your d-day – or since you were told this was all in the past – your wife still feels a need to carry condoms on a regular, maybe even daily basis.

I take it that you two do not always or ever use condoms?
I take it that you two don’t have a pattern of hooking up for spontaneous sex over the day? You aren’t going to her place of work and you two hitting it off in her office, or your car behind some billboard or anything like that.
I take it that for you – as a couple in a monogamous relationship – there is no need for a condom in your wallet, in her purse, in her gym-bag... Basically nowhere outside your bedroom and maybe an overnight bag if you two take some time away.

If this is true... If this is the correct understanding... then two things come to mind:

Why would a married woman need to carry condoms around unless it’s to hook up with her husband?
The count isn’t important IMHO. She can have lost some simply from wallet-wear, or dropped behind some chair or given to some kids to use as balloons or whatever. The key-question is and will remain in my mind: Why is she carrying condoms around at all?

Hardly to offer a possible rapist.
Hardly just in case you come along.

Why?

For me there is really only one answer.

Wondering about batches and expiration dates and quantity... that’s like wondering if your alcoholic spouse had a lite-beer or an IPA.

You’re not counting condoms to prove what she’s doing, you already know that.

You’re hoping that all the right dates and numbers will magically be present, to reassure you that she’s not using them.

Give it up.

Sorry.

So I hadn't appreciated the timescales here. I had read your JFO thread, but I hadn't made the connection, sorry about that.

So about having to walk it for yourself....

Again, I have no stones to throw in this arena. I sympathize, empathize, identify, all of it. You have to live your life and deal with the consequences of your choices. But friend, you 11 years deep in this and still feeling compelled to count condoms. I don't know what drives people like the women we married, but I do recognize the patterns now. You are in grave danger, good sir.

If you've read some of my threads, then you know that I gained a lot out of writing here. I got advice, sympathy, and an outlet to put all the unfiltered pain. I recommend you do similarly. But of equal value was reading. I read many people's stories to inform myself of what realistic possibilities were ahead of me. I was terrified of divorce, but I learned to fear the "zombie marriage" more. The pain and misery of those with unrepentant waywards who never broke free of them, it is my firm belief that that is the worst possible outcome of infidelity.

You ARE so much more important than the relationship you have with your wife. I felt my identity tied up in my marriage, and that was a mistake. During R attempts, one MC tried to use the concept of "Us" as being co-equal with each of the two of us, and I now regard that as a useless model. You are human, a divinely created and loved center of consciousness. You owe your one precious and wild life to no one, much less a serial betraying liar. And regardless of how you currently view her, how you feel about her, those descriptions are objectively true. You only get one trip around, friend.

Since we are plagarizing slogans on this thread, I do really like Bigger's...

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Bigger, and others

Ive seen people state out loud that me feeling the need to audit the condoms says enough to be self explanatory a few times. I agree.

Agonizing over purchase times and expiration dates serves two purposes; organization and determining when in the last decade which condoms were likely in play, or if they were at all. Im using every piece of available information to learn as much as I can about a cold case in which I was deeply mislead.

I understand its extreme, bonkers, and not something I ever want my marriage reduced to. I need you to understand, that having my gut make me keep an eye on it lead to a key finding; which is important when you are dealing with someone who is clinging to denial.

Clearing the air; sometime after december 1, of last year, my wife returned 3 condoms to the box in the nightstand after a discussion where I showed her a mystery condom from that same drawer. 2 of them had a 2014 expiration, one had a 2019 expiration, but all of em that returned were around in 2014 when the affairs were in play by her telling. She didnt know about my psychotic accounting.

in our discussion of those condoms prior to her returning them, she denied carrying any during the affair period.

I find it weird that the purse she carried them in from 2014 was living in her car in 2025, with the crusty old condoms still in it. Its the second car shes had since then, to boot. When I was a single guy, I only ever carried one condom at a time, usually only on dates when I expected to get laid. But I suppose its possible to need to carry 3 condoms, just in case.

She is claiming that when she got a new purse from her mom for christmas, she cleaned that one out, returned the condoms to the box, pushed it to the back of the drawer and started storing her bras in there. I dont believe that a month after she was tipped off to me looking into condom math, that those changes suddenly needed to be made when that drawer hasnt been a been a bra caddy for a decade till now.

Id like everyone to know that as dense as I am, I do indeed understand what condoms are used for.

Inkhulk,

Regarding timescales, you are right, 11 years is much time.

My initial discoveries in 2014 lacked context. I had no idea what I was looking at. I was angry and suspicious, but my anger was directed at the horny dudes. Ww had me thinking she was being harassed and pursued one sidedly. I was suspicious and concerned there was more. My father, with whom I worked, saw it as paranoia and accused me of being "just like your fucking brother" who has been suspicious in his marriage since it started. So I let it go.

Time mounted against me, truth trickled, and in early 2024 we had a true D-day when admissions made it clear I was dealing with multiple affairs.

So its really like Ive only given myself permission to process this for a year, but Ive accrued 11 of trauma. In retrospect, the new context changes each thing I previously misunderstood, which is so many things and so complex I get quite lost.

I need to understand my past.

Im doing my best. Im trying to be brave and also hold my ground. Im not ready to give up.

I do not find it psychotic accounting.

I don’t think you should label yourself this way. You are deeply traumatized and your need to solve the puzzle is completely normal.

Personally, I didn’t understand certain parts of your timeline before or that you were only a year out from dday. I thought you have known for all this time and still didn’t have answers. I also misinterpreted the counting several times now.

You are not being psychotic, this is a normal reaction to infidelity. I think we all probably just think if this is how you have to get it, without help from either her memory or level of honesty, that is generally not a great sign.

I hope you can get the answers that you need.

I also don’t think you should denigrate yourself. Borderline obsessive detective work to try to piece the truth together is a very common response to this kind of betrayal. I did it both before and after d-day.
I also understand that a switch flipped last year. But re-reading your opening post on JFO, you’ve been dealing with this the whole relationship. I’m saying this out of compassion, not judgment. You’ve been subjected to trickle truth and lies from her active choices the whole time. That is hellish and I can only imagine the impact that has had on you.
I’m going to make two recommendations:

1) don’t ignore her behavior from the last 11 years. She is not a fairly tale princess at heart who occasionally slips up. What she has done to you since before you even married her is a reflection of something real in her.

2) since you obviously want to try R, watch what she does now. You should expect to see, demand to see, a stark change in her. Patterns of lies, defensiveness, stonewalling should cease. Maybe not overnight, but significant progress should be expected in a reasonable timeframe. If that doesn’t happen, don’t give any more excuses about trauma or shame or fear. Let her past and her present agree and bear witness to her true character.

You are traumatized. Your brain is reeling and trying to figure out reality. You need time for that. Take the time, but please protect yourself from further harm.

Yeah, I hear you both.

Its hard, because I know I spend a large amount of mental bandwidth on it. I know that its obsessive. It is distressing. And when you are going through the motions on it, you really feel like you are losing it, the grip on normalcy, the emotional regulation. And not liking the fruits of your own preoccupation makes you angry with yourself. And its safest to be angry with yourself, so….. I scapegoat a little?

Ive been working on my internal dialogue since last year. I catch myself treating myself like an enemy from time to time, before I realize.

We began sharing locations of our phones the other day and that is a remarkable comfort to me, actually. I dont know why I didnt think of that before.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 9:44 PM, Tuesday, March 18th]

Trickle truth is common but atrocious. Not sure if you read my thread about my d-day 2, but my wife swore up and down that she had disclosed everything. Then I found out she had hidden inappropriate contact between my daughter and her POSOM that she enabled and then covered up. Then she swore again that this was the last of it, acted incredulous that she wasn’t believed. And then came the admissions of unprotected sex, more hotel visits, etc.

The incredulous statements of full disclosure are meaningless. This new disclosure proves it. And so will the next. Any truly remorseful person wouldn’t dare come into your presence with anything but complete humility. And you deserve that.

Inkhulk,

Its so fucking complicated.

On one hand, this particular AP was particularly predatory, so I dont know how to feel about it. He used an asymmetric power dynamic, the private nature of the club in a gate within the gate, and Wws need to get money to "get in".

He was a paying member of the club, Ww was a cart girl serving beer and alcohol and snacks at her first job. He gave her 100 bucks every time he saw her and started to just use his hands afterwards. Thats my understanding.

On one hand, I see her letting it happen, forming a connection, and taking money to be objectified. In one instance, I saw her cry when he gave attention to some other women.

And on the other I see a victim of a predator. So I feel kind of shitty considering him an Ap rather than an abuser. I feel kind of shitty cataloguing, punishing, resenting the trickle truth on that. Maybe the memory repression has merit on some of what happened. If it does, Thats shitty.

Frankly, I saw multiple instances of Ww fawning and letting people do shit she didnt want or like. Whats that say about my stack of resentments?

Its so fucking complicated.

I know. I’m sorry you have to walk thru it.

On one hand, this particular AP was particularly predatory, so I dont know how to feel about it.

My thread "The Cheaters Handbook" is me working thru this exact sentiment. If you didn’t read that, I highly recommend it.

On one hand, I see her letting it happen, forming a connection, and taking money to be objectified. In one instance, I saw her cry when he gave attention to some other women.

And on the other I see a victim of a predator. So I feel kind of shitty considering him an Ap rather than an abuser. I feel kind of shitty cataloguing, punishing, resenting the trickle truth on that. Maybe the memory repression has merit on some of what happened. If it does, Thats shitty.

An unusually wise member, emergent8, who sadly hasn’t been around for a while, asked me a piercing question once as I dealt was wrestling with these ideas: if you infantilize her so much, how can she ever be your equal?
In my own words, if you put the agency outside of her for her unforced sexual behavior, how can you ever trust her to be your wife?

Frankly, I saw multiple instances of Ww fawning and letting people do shit she didnt want or like. Whats that say about my stack of resentments?

I don’t understand your question here, would you be willing to clarify?

How are you holding up?

On one hand, I see her letting it happen, forming a connection, and taking money to be objectified. In one instance, I saw her cry when he gave attention to some other women.

Not making an excuse for your WW, but I do like to look at some things differently.

In this case, could it be that your WW was crying because she might have felt that she could be 'losing' $100? That she would not be able to 'earn' that $100, and it goes to someone else instead?

Frankly, I saw multiple instances of Ww fawning and letting people do shit she didnt want or like.

In certain circles, this would be an admirable trait, and considered as a 'go getter' attitude. However in your WWs case, this seems to indicate that she may be willing to sacrifice her integrity for a few dollars more. Do what it takes to get the extra money.

Whatever the case, your WW will definitely need to get some form of IC to help her sort out her behaviorial patterns.

What you are doing by keeping up, and on, the minutia is hiding. It’s busy work. It’s your version of worry beads. You don’t want to look at reality. Believe me I did you one better than that. I pretended, to myself, that ignoring things would mean my husband didn’t cheat. Mine was based on fear. Young children and no way to provide for them. Yours appears to be hiding from the truth because then you might have to make a decision.

You can’t live like this for much longer. This kind of stress does a number on you physically.

Also look at the last time you actually relaxed, felt comfortable, felt happy. Then look at how all your days and nights are spent. You might keep busy getting polys but they are not going to change your reality. A wife who moves condoms around is not healthy for herself or for you.

Please look after yourself.

Inkhulk,

Thanks for pointing me somewhere to look at your previous dealings with much the same feelings.

You are quite right. I am allowing myself to treat her like someone who couldnt have boundaries, not like someone who chose not to. It isnt the correct way to look at this. I was giving in to the temptation to treat her like the victim to ease the revelation.

But Im the victim. She transmitted untrue information, and I recieved it.

The truth is, she didnt lie for all these years because she is blameless. It was to hide the culpability.

Dude was a creep, but she didnt say no, or warn me, or tell anyone. She attached herself and concealed whst was happening, and it was happening concurrently as she was engaging in cheating with others.

To answer your question about how Im holding up;
Im better this morning than I was last night. The rollercoaster is real.

RocketRaccoon,

Not quite. One of the earliest red flags, way back in 2014, was one of my clearest memories. Ww and I were eating dinner and drinking at a pub, when this AP and his band of scamps came in and sat down beside us. We hung out with them for a bit until a bachelorette party came to the bar. AP and his friends got up from hanging out with us and adopted the bachelorette party instead.

Ww began to cry. I paid for our food and drinks (and APs drink) and took her home. She couldnt explain herself. In the car, the sobbing was inconsolable. I spent the rest of the night trying to comfort her. I did not understand. I didnt want to. I chalked it up to Ww being sensitive. I theorized it was something Id done.

I lacked critical information.

Cooley2here,

Thanks for being kind. Im trying to take care of myself.

Ive seen people state out loud that me feeling the need to audit the condoms says enough to be self explanatory a few times.

I don’t think I’m getting my message across.
The issue IMHO is not the number, brand, best-before date or anything like that. It doesn’t matter if it’s one or one hundred condoms. If one or a dozen are missing.
The issue is that a partner in a relationship that expects monogamy should be carrying a condom on their person – or within reach – at times when there is no expectation of it being used within the partnership.

I tend to compare many of the actions of a person in infidelity to the actions of alcoholics.
If your wife’s problem was alcoholism and she had committed to sobriety to save herself and the marriage... would you be expecting her to store a six-pack in the car, or have a flask in her purse? Would that be inductive of a commitment to sobriety, or inductive of a weak belief in sobriety?
Would you be wondering why one can is missing? Or if it was ACME beer or DUFFY?
Bourbon in the flask or whiskey?
Would you be wondering if the missing sip was spillage or she had sipped?

To me it’s the same with the condoms.
As with alcoholism and addiction I think a person can be in active infidelity (as in meeting up with OP) or inactive infidelity (as in maybe intending to end it, but not having completely committed to it).
If your wife has a need to have a condom in her purse or wallet or vehicle... "just in case"... then she’s at best in inactive infidelity.
THAT is the problem.

The accounting? That’s just to figure out if she stole 100 or 1000 bucks from the till... Still theft.

Bigger,

You are 100% right.

So how is sex between you and WW now.

For myself I can say that I never recovered from 30 or so years ago because my sex life with WW never recovered.

Somewhere you wrote that one of her affair partners messaged her about how wet she was that struck me

Well, you are a much faster learner than me for you to come to those realizations so quickly.

Indeed, the rollercoaster is very real. It does get better, especially if you deal with the real problem, which you seem to be doing.

I’d like to make it clear: I’m not against your marriage. I am pro-You. There are stories here of marriages that survived. I latched on to those stories when I was in your place, and I don’t regret that. If you want your marriage to survive, then I hope it does, but only if it’s in a form that allows for you to thrive. That is only partly in your control. The one thing entirely in your hands is your own healing. A WS continuing a diet of trickle truth will poison your attempts to heal. There is no excuse for her to continue to lie and obscure, it harms you and the marriage. If she won’t treat you honorably, I hope you will choose yourself and create emotional distance to stop further harm. Anyone who genuinely cares for you should want that for you.

Holding the AP in your mind as a manipulator/abuser is just a long form way of giving yourself excuses of why she did these things. It’s an attempt to give yourself excuses to not see her for what she is. No. She was an adult and he was just a garden variety shithead opportunist.

While I agree with what is being said here, I see she was 24 at the time she did these things. I can see why blue drops has put that slant on it, as long as he is holding her accountable for her actions and more importantly recognizing that she is now 34 and he still feels like she is lying about aspects. I am in no way giving her a pass, but these men sound like they were older and at 24 there could very well have been a legitimate power dynamic involved. But I don’t see her anywhere crying rape or any of those things. I just wanted to point out it’s probably somewhat natural for blue to see imbalance.

I was much older, a full grown woman with grown children when my affair happened. And I would tell you I was fully responsible. I would also tell you that my Ap also was a predator. These two things don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:54 PM, Wednesday, March 19th]

Today the words arent coming easy.

Inkhulk,

I dont feel like a particularly fast learner, kind of you to say, but the timeframes suggest otherwise!

I appreciate the lent brainpower from outsiders to the relationship. Im too close to see the forest most of the time, so I miss things that some of you conclude. It really has helped me to be validated in my feelings here, on this forum.

Im a stubborn man. I dont give up easily, nor am I easily convinced. These things are assets and liability both in this situation. I like to think that I am good with reasoning through problems, but the truth is I get bound up in my biases, desired outcomes, minutia, and so on etc. So a little help from people less involved but with related experience goes a long way.

That said, in the end, I hope to listen well but decide things for myself.

Ohitsyou,

You arent wrong, but…

It is a bit nuanced in this one APs case. He was older, had some power, there was abusive and transactional behaviour, and she still chose it. He had a daughter Wws age, and liked to catch squirrels in a squirrel trap and drown em in his pool. When he got divorced and disappeared from the scene, his wife got everything, somehow. Wasnt just from fingering bev cart girls, though I cant say what it was from.

And hes just one AP, theres another, our age, for whom none of that is true. And a bunch of other dirtbags too. Its not like she was ever cornered, and I dont know or really believe that the abuse happened first, just that some happened.

It looked like it was all happening concurrently by my reckoning when I looked at the texts.

I cant tell you how many times she bragged to me about how much more she earned than the other girls, thanks to Mr. P.

She had me thinking he was just a nice dude at the time.

Hikingout,

I really appreciate you giving me support over here, and giving my wife support on the wayward side. You are quite wise. I had hoped for almost a year my wife could go and find somewhere to share and people whose life experiences she might benefit from.

She seemed to think I resented her receiving that. I dont. Im truly grateful.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 9:49 PM, Thursday, March 20th]