SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We went to marriage counselling after the April-2023 lying episode. I was completely frazzled as this had never happened before as far as I knew. The fact that she swore on our kids lives and I knew that she was lying but could not tell by looking at her really freaked me out. The MC was a waste thought, she really did not fully participate, when I would ask her about rebuilding trust, she really did not seem interested. I said there was no use in continuing after 4 sessions.

She does seem better now, maybe just better at hiding things and lying since I have shown what I have numerous times expecting her to confess and say she is done and then we can carry on happily ever after... Now that I have read numerous stories on here I understand that is not what happens, but it is extremely difficult to pretend everything is going good and still be alert for any new info. That is why the iPhone apps appealed to me, as that would be clear cut evidence. Since she is using vanish mode on Instagram messages there really is no other way to verify this.

I appreciate the suggestion of leaving a laptop open and recording in a room and then leaving the house, however I think she is conducting most of the messaging while she is in the tub for 1-2 hours every night.

I appreciate the suggestion of leaving a laptop open and recording in a room and then leaving the house, however I think she is conducting most of the messaging while she is in the tub for 1-2 hours every night.

This is likely because you are home and/or that is a "safe" place to conduct such conversations. If you are not there, and won't be there and she knows it, a call (or something else) is more likely to happen than just texting. And I wasn't saying to necessarily do what I did with the laptop - more to think outside of the box and figure out how to get her to let her guard down, if indeed she is cheating.

Also - 1 to 2 HOURS in the tub??? I love a bath but really? I mean if this isn't abnormal for her then it may be nothing but it certainly seems abnormal to me.

Sorry you find yourself in this situation. Full disclosure before I comment. I know nothing of sleuthing. My first wifes betrayal with my then best friend was discovered by another friend and disclosed to me shortly thereafter. Full betrayal was never in question and how many times didnt matter to me. Admittedly I mishandled the subsequent years of badly attempted R but that is another story.

What I DO know a lot about is being in continuous limbo and I can tell you unequivocally that it is no way to live.

See, you can go amateur PI if you want. Many have to varying degrees of "success". Searching out clues. Looking for scraps of evidence. Or, you could hire a professional PI if you have the means. Others mentioned here have done so.

I would ask you this. If you never find the evidence you seek and these behaviors continue on her behalf, are you willing to live with this? As is, is there enough in this relationship for you to be fulfilled both now and say, 5 years? 10 years? Is the status quo acceptable to you should you find nothing else?

What I have read of what you are experiencing seems to grow more and more toxic with deceit and opaque dealings.

Whatever you choose to do, endeavor to come from a position of strength. Put yourself and your well being first including therapy for yourself, not MC.

Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 4:12 PM, Saturday, August 3rd]

Since she is using vanish mode on Instagram messages

she is in the tub for 1-2 hours every night.

These are red flags. My WW did both of these things during her A. People with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

She knows you are suspicious of her so I don’t think she will leave you the opportunity to see what she is doing at home.

I would suggest a PI as well (I think someone else did) because they will be able to see her at other times. At work, when she is no doubt much less guarded and around her boss.

Hire someone and then go away for the weekend, go visit someone or take a friend and go on a trip etc give the PI a full chance to see what they can find out.

IMO it doesn’t matter if your spouse cheated.

She’s betrayed you.

She’s disrespected you.

She’s lied to you.

That is enough to severely damage your relationship and honestly st this point, she’s unsafe to be in any type of relationship with.

You know you cannot trust her. Period.

It’s up to you to decide what to do with this information.

Here’s the thing about no fault divorce. You can divorce for the hell of it. Just because. You were asked if this is something you can live with. My question is why would you? Life is too short.

She knows you are suspicious of her so I don’t think she will leave you the opportunity to see what she is doing at home.

I disagree - mine knew I was super suspicious (we had already had a d-day 1). Given the opportunity he took it anyway, because he trusted me but moreso because he was desperate to have that time. And I'm not the only one here whose WSs have done the same - and I think the longer the A goes on without being caught the more lax the WS gets because they feel like they can continue to get away with anything. Sigh. My WH actually admitted he thought, even after d-day 1, that he could "outsmart" me.

That being said I agree 10000000% that living in limbo is AWFUL. If you can, find out, if you are like me and you need to know. If you can't find out then you have a decision to make - to continue living with someone who is treating you at bare minimum less than respectfully, or get out. Those three things really are your options.

Thanks everyone for your responses and thoughtful comments. I agree living in limbo is the worst, I heard that the only thing worse than knowing your spouse is cheating on you is suspecting and not knowing 100% for sure.

@Tanner - how did you catch your WS if she was using Instagram vanish mode? I read your bio and you say you had access to her phone for a week of putting things together, were there traces somewhere.

IMHO there are a lot if issues in the marriage, irrespective of infidelity.
I don’t know if those issues are one-sided or go both ways. But based on what you share there is a lack of respect and consideration on her half towards you, and a lack of trust and security from you towards her.

Yes – if she’s cheating then both the above are possible consequences/derivatives of the affair. Even without a possible affair the way she has divulged personal issues with others is a worry. I could understand a confidant – a best friend – but not in a party-situation. The way she calls everyone to shame you and tell them your are divorcing... that is emotional abuse and control.

I suggested you investigate outside of the possible infidelity-angle. Some things I would be looking into:

Is her boss gay? Like does he have a husband or boyfriend? That would definitely drop him down the list IMHO.

Is he really the only suspect?
What tools/software does she use for work? Like... If I was having a friendly relationship beyond the scope of work with a colleague, I wouldn’t go through the bother of Instagram or Telegraph or anything like that. I would feel secure enough to use Teams or whatever communications program the job provided, and since I had direct and near-constant access to see when they are free to talk then use the provided software.
In my world my wife has access to my devices (as do I her), but because of confidentiality clauses neither of us have direct access to each other’s work accounts. If I was having an affair, then my office Teams would definitely be the best tool to communicate. Although my company techs can probably recover deleted messages, I am 100% certain my wife can’t. Neither the techs nor anyone else can recover conversations using Teams.

I just find it strange for a couple possibly having an affair making it more complex than necessary.

Other than that...
Digital communications is only one factor. If she’s having an affair there will be physical contact. When and where? Are there events she dresses up for that aren’t "normal"? Like does she put on the revealing blouse and miniskirt going to the office, or is she wearing the same sensible business attire? What about lingerie? Does she have a "special set" in one drawer that is then missing when she goes to "the office"? When she goes to the gym – does she return with sweaty leotards?
If she goes "shopping" for 3 hours – does she arrive home empty-handed or with a quart of milk?
Do financial transactions stem with what she says? Like "shopping" is there a withdrawal at Macy’s or a withdrawal from and ATM at Lovers Den Motel?
Do her actions and behavior equate to her words?

Every time you catch her,you give away your source. Stop doing that.

It sounds like she's cheating. The things she's said, and done, show an incredible lack of respect and love. She's also abusive.

Once you have proof, do you think she has the maturity,and emotional fortitude, to do the work a ws must do,to R successfully? Because it doesn't sound like she does.

Broken record here. Why are you looking for cheating? Bigger already addressed that. You are miserable. Suppose you find out, then what? Suppose you don’t? All this time in agony is time you will never get back. It’s like living in hell in hopes someone will douse the fire. So far nothing and yet you keep hoping. Hire a PI. Might cost you but you will your answer. Then you can decide.

@Tanner - how did you catch your WS if she was using Instagram vanish mode? I read your bio and you say you had access to her phone for a week of putting things together, were there traces somewhere.

She wasn’t using vanish mode on IG. My response was to using IG in general. The only app that did that was Snapchat.

After her weight loss and bikini competitions she drew a lot of male attention online. That fueled the fire. A lot of what you described is very familiar.

Just wanted to add something on here. My WS’s cheating was a boss/assistant situation. It felt like the worst of all worlds because they essentially can have unlimited behind closed doors access to each other at work and there is really no way to catch them. They don’t need to message (I realize your wife actually is messaging) but as my husband explained it to me later…he and his cheating partner never needed to message and this is why I could never catch anything written because they were together every day with access to privacy and thus had no need to make contact at night and on the weekends. I truly would never really have caught him. The only way I found out it was physical was because he chose to come clean six years later.

I am sharing this because I know you are looking for a smoking gun and I fear you may wait forever. You have had some good tips and you seem to be polishing your sleuthing skills so hopefully you will find something. But, it may be hard because of the boss/employee dynamic. I was still happy for all the sleuthing I did at the time because I had many facts and data points, so even though I had no smoking gun I had red flags and was able to get him to terminate the professional relationship within a couple months and she left the company. It was obviously very sensitive because he was the boss and thus was in a position to be sued (even if she did initiate it, which was what he claimed.). I did have some VAR conversations recorded so I was able to validate that she was the pursuer and all of the little details and dates I had collected allowed me to confirm that his story was at least "pretty true". He didn’t know which facts I knew so his story had to be accurate or I would have known.

So I guess all that is to say..Hang in there. I am so sorry you are going through this. Knowing they are working together every day is probably doing more trauma to you than you know and the sooner you are out of this situation the better. Whether it is through D or an attempt at recovery. It sounds like you aren’t looking to R, but if you did want that you would need her out of this work situation immediately for your own mental health. I’m not sure collecting data is enough of a reason to put yourself through this. As your wife is the subordinate this boss is in a very dangerous situation and you likely have a fair amount of power here to control events.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 2:06 PM, Tuesday, August 13th]

GT08
Lots of interesting suggestions here. Wondering if you followed up.? Hope things are going well. Update when you can.

thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions.

I had basically been stewing over the pieces of info I have found, but no smoking gun and not been able to focus on anything for a while. Then over the weekend I heard her telling friends something about one of our son's birthdays, then she noticed I was looking and stopped talking, I made a mental note to ask her later.
We were out on a walk and when I asked her, she said that there was a head office trip on that day, I said oh, who is coming from head office? She said well actually it is just her boss coming to town for a couple days. I unfortunately got upset, did not say anything but she knew I was upset.
When we got home, I went upstairs and wanted to be alone, she came in wanting to know what was wrong, I said let’s leave this until later, did not want to talk about it, she continued saying she wants to know now. I said it sucks that the only way I find out about things if I overhear it, she snaps and says that I am unreasonable, and she is not telling me because I get so upset, but only about this one topic and it is crazy because she does not like him and he is gay.
I said the only time I get upset is when she does not tell me, and I find out later. She said she cannot take this, and I am being unreasonable, I say fine and go downstairs, she then follows me continuing to berate and yell. I do not engage and say we need to stay calm around kids. She then throws water on me and says she is going to go through my office to see what other info I have. she heads out, locks the door before I get there. I go get the key, open the door and say I am concerned she is getting so worked up and I am worried she will start breaking things again. I tell her again to stop or else I am calling the police, she does not so I can and say there is a domestic situation. The Police show up, talk to each of us individually, I tell them I do not want to press charges, she comes back in and after they leave. She tells me that she told them I have been tracking her and recording her, and was just jealous about a fictious situation. She then said they told her that she could get a restraining order if she wanted.

We agreed to separate, but she is still in the house and has upped her smear campaign about me to everyone, it is definitely adding to the stress. We have some financial issues that need to be dealt with, but she said she is looking for an apartment.

Over the last couple of days she asked to talk and told me that if I would just drop this one thing she would not want to separate. I told her if she would be open and honest with me, I would not want to separate. She says that I am making things up in my head and I should just trust her and stop making things up that are not happening.

I am not sure if this is gaslighting to the nth degree or if I am actually starting to add all these things up and make it out to be something it is not…

She’s got you on the ropes doubting yourself.

And that is her game. Blame you for all of it.

Honestly as I wrote in my 8/4 post, she’s a liar who talked crap about you to others and then blames you when you find out her sneaky underhanded antics.

There is NO trust here.

She’s destroyed your property.

She’s raged at you.

She’s lied to you (and continues to lie) about her location, her interactions, etc.

I don’t want you to think SHE (the cheating spouse) is going to change. She is not honest about her locations or interactions and honestly, I seriously doubt her boss is gay. She has not done one thing to help you heal or in your best interest.

I know that many have problems with polygraphs, but I think they are useful, especially when you initially tell them about the test.

Make an appointment for a poly. Go to her and tell her that you feel that trust has been destroyed and you feel you need to go back to square one. Therefore, in order to begin rebuilding the trust, you have scheduled a polygraph for her and when it is. Watch her immediate reaction. Tell her that you are happy to take one as well.

Many people say that their significant other often comes to them a few days prior to the test to "clarify" a few things. This is often known as a parking lot confession.

Keep an eye on her search history for terms related to "how to beat a polygraph"

Sounds to me like she is probably gaslighting you.

Good luck.

Update:
Since Aug-26, she has been in spare bedroom, we agreed to separation and she will let me know by Sept-20,2024 if she wants to look at reconciliation or not.
She says she is too hurt because I was alluding to her cheating, even though I never said it, she has always jumped to cheating with any trust issue I bring up.
In order to push back I said "I do not think you are having an affair because if you were it would be too much to mentally take with the required lying, gaslighting, compartmentalization, etc."

This stems from when her Dad had multiple affairs on her mom as she was growing up.
In one instance she found a love note in her dad’s pants pocket when she was 12 and doing the laundry. She knew the woman who wrote it, was a friend’s mother. Her Dad ripped her room apart to find the note, it was in one of her stuffed toys, found it and they never talked about It again.

I said that basically her living through the cheating her Dad did on her Mom, and how she flipped out about my brother getting caught cheating on his wife that she would have to be living this double life and constantly lying/gaslighting/etc. that it makes no sense, and because I think I still know some part of her, I don’t think she could do that.
It would be either that or she was straight up evil… and I can’t believe either of those, so I explained to her that I choose to believe she is not cheating.

Regardless, she has put in place a no intimacy line while she is in the spare bedroom and deciding if she wants to move forward with reconciliation.
Has anyone ever had this done and what was the response?

I know a lot of people have been and will say that it does not matter about proof or evidence, however based on where I am now, another couple months to confirm is not that big of a deal.

I think I have finally learned to keep my mouth shut and eyes/ears open to get this figured for good.

What was her response to suggesting a polygraph to resolve the truth of things? If you have not raised this with her, why not?