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Newest Member: Watermelonhigh

Wayward Side :
How do you ever compete with someones gut?!?!

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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 6:51 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Then give her the gift she needs most, being away from you. Give her time and space, allow her to heal without you. Take the initiative. She’s scared to make a move, so remove yourself from the equation. Make it a set time. Say 30 days. Don’t make it sound like a permanent thing, maybe it won’t be. Just say to allow her to heal, a temporary break might give her the freedom to make a decision on what she wants.

No matter what you did, you don’t have to stay, and if you’re only making things worse for both of you, something has to give.

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 503   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8838877
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 7:00 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Yep, I get this point but even if I agree and say ok fine.....that's wrong and I've been told I'm abandoning her all over again!!

I think you have to gauge how serious she was, how sound of mind, when she said this. I’d say look at actions over words here, just like a BS is told. If she is filing and moving out, that is one thing. If she says this only in emotional moments, that could be her lashing out from pain.

You should not try to coerce her to stay nor defame her if she does choose to leave. But I personally see nothing wrong with sincere efforts and actions to show her you still want R. That is not abandoning her to allow her to leave under her own power and will, all the more if you are still acting to rebuild.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8838878
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 7:00 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Maybe she is, maybe she isn’t, that isn’t in your control. If she hasn’t signed the papers yet then there is still life, and if you want this, then show her.

100 percent this.

Listen, if you lied to her until you were 18 months out, and now you are two years out, my math says you are six months out. No BS heals in that time. It takes a long time, years.

If you want it to gradually get better, comfort her when she needs it. In between, have you ever heard of the book "Fireproof"? I don't completely buy into it for a lot of reasons, because you don't want to love bomb her and then the behavior just dies off. What I do agree with is you do with WITHOUT EXPECTATION OF A RETURN. Dont be bothered by a negative reaction, you just keep going like a train. What I do, and still do is every day I do something for my husband. Something that makes his day better. Whether it's cook something he really likes to taking him to see a band he likes, or even just making him his ice tea. He is southern and drinks it like water. I don't drink it so I don't notice when it's out. Plus he works from home and I don't so often he does it during the day. If I see the pitcher out, I clean it, make it and put it back in there for him. So, it doesn't have to be a lot. Pick some flowers. Take the kids to the park so she can have a bath. Leave her notes of encouragement or love. Whatever. It won't make up for it, but love is an action, and the more actions you take and the more self awareness and control that you work through the more she will start to believe you.

Always remember, when there is anger and lashing out towards you, that's still a sign there is a lot of love there. If she didn't love you she wouldn't bother. She would just ignore you largely.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:11 PM, Friday, June 7th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8838879
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 7:04 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Just to be clear, with the heat and speed of this thread, I want good for you and your family. If my wife could have absorbed what you are being told here, it may have altered the course of my life. The stakes couldn’t be much higher, friend, I really hope you choose to drop the anger and pride and ego all the way in the name of repairing.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8838880
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Tobster1911 ( new member #81191) posted at 7:52 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

I am a BH so take it for what it’s worth.

[quote The anger that I get only stems from these times where she accuses me of still lying]

This seems to be the root of the problem. Why can’t you just say to her "I absolutely know why you believe that. Yes I have lied to you so many times that it is all you can believe right now. I will continue to be consistent in showing you I can change." And leave it at that. You don’t have to accept her beliefs as your truth. If you know you are not lying then you don’t have to convince her of that. Hold your truth but create space for understanding why she CANNOT yet accept it.

And why does it matter to you if she wants to question the position you had sex in? Is that really a meaningful thing to try to argue your "honesty" about? Look past the questions literal words to the devastation behind it. I promise she doesn’t want this topic raging in her mind but she has been brutalized beyond your current comprehension.

I am certain that if my wife tried to argue her truthfulness early on, I would not have stayed. It’s just insulting to the betrayed to pretend that NOW we should believe the unfaithful.

BH(45), married 16yrs, DDay1 Feb 2022, DDay2 Apr 2022, 2EA + 4PA over 6+ yrs.

Glimmers of hope for change

posts: 35   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2022   ·   location: CO
id 8838882
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 Tinytim1980 (original poster member #80504) posted at 8:04 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Hi Ink,

I totally see that in your responses and dont think your trying to attack etc. Everyones responses are well received and I know why they are coming through so I am grateful for this.

I'm actually out the house for around two weeks albeit back over fathers day from Sunday. She is very much hit and miss, one moment doesnt want me gone the next telling me to basically not come back. This course has totally come at the wrong time as I'm going to be unreachable for the most part due to the nature however I'll still be calling day in and out for the kids

Hiking out, hear ya and pretty much I'm the master of gifts etc....I have made her an entire wardrobe using cricut lol and she even says she hasnt felt as loved before which is rather sad in its own right

posts: 97   ·   registered: Aug. 10th, 2022   ·   location: UK
id 8838883
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OhItsYou ( member #84125) posted at 9:09 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

I think the most important skill you are missing is being able to put yourself in her shoes. I don’t know if that is a teachable skill. I do know that to be able to do it, even for someone that it comes naturally to, you have to drop any present anger to really absorb yourself into her position.

Polygraphs do work. But it is only as accurate as the examiner is skilled. The FBI,CIA and the NSA still use them. The point is to offer it, wholeheartedly.

I don’t buy the mantra of BS heals BS, WP heals WP singularly. Both can heal themselves and each other concurrently. But both have to be willing to slip each others shoes on. Pretty difficult when there is animosity all around.

Start to accept her hurt with contrition. Do that for a long while and I think you’ll see changes.

posts: 134   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2023   ·   location: Texas
id 8838887
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 9:19 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

I dont have much to say about polys really, I have read alot about them and feel it's a false science and that they are hugely inaccurate plus we dont have the money and they arent cheap over here.

My bs did find one, but when I spoke to him he plucked a random figure out of thin air to come down to where we are to do the test...one review said it was done in a costa which was bizarre and his figure essentially made him earn in excess of £100 per hour.

I just gotta say, that if you were MY spouse your position on this would be a GIANT waving red flag for me. I say this from the perspective of someone who has also done the research on the utility of a poly (including the limitations). I understand it does not test 'truth telling' but rather the physiological response. I know that even if my spouse took and passed a test, it wouldn't necessarily PROVE to me that he was being truthful and honest and that it wouldn't make my doubts and fears go away. I know that it's not evidence that would stand up in court, but relationships are not a court of law and perfect is the enemy of good. It's not like it's total garbage witchery either, the CIA and the FBI regularly use polygraphs when screening candidates.

Regardless of the science though, the main utility of a polygraph is that the WS demonstrates to the BS that they do not feel they have anything to hide and they are ready, willing, and able to do anything and everything that is within their power to prove this to the BS. I get that financial considerations might be relevant in some scenarios, but like, I would be incredibly insulted at your nickel-and-diming this. A couple hundred pounds (a polygraph is not going to last hours) is nothing if it buys your spouse a little peace of mind.

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2167   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8838889
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SadieMae ( member #42986) posted at 10:12 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Bs heals the bs
Ws heals the ws

I do believe this. We can only heal ourselves. But the BS cannot begin to heal themselves if the WS is continuing to inflict injury with lies, selfish behavior, and anger.

Me: BW D-day 3/9/2014
TT until 6/2016
TT again Fall 2020
Yay! A new D-Day on 11/8/2023 WTAF

posts: 1421   ·   registered: Apr. 3rd, 2014   ·   location: Sweet Tea in the Shade
id 8838895
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 Tinytim1980 (original poster member #80504) posted at 11:25 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

Emergent8,

To clarify I am not saying I wont take one and have offered to just do it however my bs has already informed me once before it wont make the blinders bit of difference and she will just think I've cheated it somehow...

But as I say, its cheaper than a divorce as is marriage counselling which ironically one of the poly people suggested!

So yeah to solve the shall I shan't I argument about polys.....I have offered and would take one tomorrow if she would jst book it

posts: 97   ·   registered: Aug. 10th, 2022   ·   location: UK
id 8838901
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 11:54 PM on Friday, June 7th, 2024

So yeah to solve the shall I shan't I argument about polys.....I have offered and would take one tomorrow if she would jst book it

Dude…… YOU book it.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8838905
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emergent8 ( Guide #58189) posted at 12:05 AM on Saturday, June 8th, 2024

So book it yourself. I don't know why this would be her responsibility. Give your spouse some notice so she has time to consider the correct the appropriate questions or if she objects to the forum or the examiner or whatever.

And then go through with it knowing that maybe it changes nothing. And if you pass, great. Don't throw it in her face or pretend like it means she should automatically shut up about it forever and ever because she knows there is no way to cover every possible lie. BUT....you've done one more thing to try to allay her concerns. Maybe it changes nothing, but maybe it does. You never know. You can't possibly know that until you try it.

If your spouse is anything like me, she WANTS to believe you but she's absolutely terrified of letting herself do so. Trusting you before was dangerous for her. It resulted in her being able to be hurt worse than she's ever been before. By not letting herself trust you, she is protecting herself and if you're attacking her, that is not as unreasonable as you might think. Please know that trust is about so much more than knowing the other person is being honest (that's important), it's also about FEELING safe. If I were her, I would not feel safe with you right now if your reaction to her emotion is anger (or to call her 'unlovable').

BTW, I read through some of your posting history and it sounds like you getting escalated and lashing out at her during confrontations is a regular and common issue in the relationship that is causing serious ongoing (new!) disconnect/damage between the two of you. Less than a year ago you were calling yourself a chronic liar and a petulant child. If that is true, then it took many years to get to that point. It likely isn't going to change in a year. Why is it that her calling you the same thing you acknowledged here, causes you to feel so threatened that you resort to anger and name-calling?

Me: BS. Him: WS.
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Happily reconciled.

posts: 2167   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8838907
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Ozzy1788 ( member #83108) posted at 5:53 PM on Saturday, June 8th, 2024

"DUDE… YOU book it"

Have been watching this one from the sidelines and I think these four words encapsulate so much, that would save so many BSs so much heartache.

Doing something huge for your BS would mean so much. It might need multiple huge things. But just doing them will make such a shift.

Good luck OP, your heart is in the right place.

posts: 176   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8838941
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 12:52 PM on Wednesday, June 12th, 2024

Frankly – if she is so indifferent about a poly and both of you doubt the reliability or the validity of any result... then don’t bother.
If you do take a poly and pass, and if she doesn’t accept the reliability then all you have is the same situation as now.

Not saying I agree with your point of view. I think that if you find an operator that can state that most of his work is done for law enforcement, the legal field and/or business screening then the odds of the result being correct is over 90%.
Stories about fooling the poly and low reliability tend to be based on experiments done with groups where the cost of being caught out is quite low. Like if you tell a group of students to lie about something to pass a test, they signed up for to get free pizza... there is no biological stress to measure. Pass or not – you still get your slice. Then there are those that simply don’t have a conscience and/or don’t discern between truth and lies.

What you two need to do is decide – through communications – what is needed to move on. What level of detail does she need, what level of evidence, what level of confirmation. If either YOU can’t give her that or if SHE can’t offer a reasonable and attainable level of confirmation that will suffice... Use the money saved on the poly for a divorce attorney.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12484   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8839378
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ibonnie ( member #62673) posted at 6:52 AM on Sunday, June 16th, 2024

Regardless though how do you fight against ones gut? When they insist you are still hiding stuff and your marriage depends on it I have just come from two days of no sleep, on the sofa and then have been a massive prick to her because she threw packaging for a parcel away that needed to go back!!!

Don't fight against her gut. Realize that, from experience, she has learned that you are not a safe partner and cannot be trusted. Read that again -- from experience, she has learned, by your own actions, that you are not a safe partner and cannot be trusted.

So instead of arguing with her or trying to convince her, think about how she's feeling. How you would feel in that position if you wete betrayed and didn't know who you could trust anymore.

Brainstorm ways you can work on making her feel safer. Maybe that means leaving your phone or laptop unlocked and going to another room so she can search through your stuff without feeling like you're watching her or trying to hide something. Maybe that means sharing your location with her (if you haven't already done that). Maybe that means acknowledging all the ways you screwed up and failed her, apologizing again, and offering a hug.

Being a "massive prick" is definitely not going to help either of you heal though.

"I will survive, hey, hey!"

posts: 2114   ·   registered: Feb. 11th, 2018
id 8839912
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WhatsRight ( member #35417) posted at 1:40 PM on Sunday, June 16th, 2024

BS here…

I have just come from two days of no sleep, on the sofa and then have been a massive prick to her because she threw packaging for a parcel away that needed to go back!!!

I am trying to understand the above. I hope that your reference to the sofa is just as a point of reference for explaining your situation. I wish there was a way for WS to know how many sleepless nights their behavior has caused. I wish there was a way for the BS to know it themselves. I certainly hope that you are not trying to compare the fact that you had to spend two nights on the sofa with the effects your choices had on your wife. This isn’t, "you took my toy so I’m going to take yours…"

Only you can know when you get to the point of not being able to "take it" anymore. Referencing your wife’s response to your infidelity.

Just curious, has your BS ever been unfaithful to you? If not, you have no point of reference from which to determine how it would affect you. And most especially if she lied about it after she was caught. It seems that you have set parameters. XYZ are reasonable for her to expect from you, but ABC are just expecting too much, because after all… You have told the truth. After you had multiple infidelities. And initially lied about it.

No one can know exactly what is going on in your home, except for you all… And your kids. But just speaking for myself alone, it sounds as though you are struggling with the fact that she doesn’t accept your "truth", After you have been unfaithful to her, and admittedly lied about it. In my humble opinion, you have not taken full responsibility for your choices. You seem to have shown regret…not remorse.

In your post, you come across as being in "disbelief" that she doesn’t believe you now. It doesn’t seem that you have let go of your defensiveness. This shit is in no way fair. We’re not talking about fair here. Or at least I’m not. It’s not "fair" that your marriage was in a state where you felt the right in the need to cheat on your wife repeatedly. It’s not "fair" that your wife won’t believe you now no matter what you do. it’s not "fair" that you shattered the trust of your wife. FAIR exists only in each of your minds.

This is not "tit for tat."

You have not achieved complete surrender to what you have done. I don’t think anyone here believes that you should suffer for the rest of your life for the mistakes you have made. But, IMHO, as long as you are voicing what you have done for her, and how she refuses to believe you, then you do not have your mind in the right place. To some, this is an unforgivable wrong. That’s what it was to me when my FWS cheated on me. But I loved him so much, and I wanted our marriage to work so badly, and I wanted our children to have their father with him. So I wanted to stick it out, no matter how long it took, but he would need to step up. And he never did. He just complained about how much he had to listen to from me. "How many times do I have to answer that question?" He was a child, not a man about the situation. He wanted to make this huge choice, and then he wanted me to hear him say he was sorry, and spend a few restless nights, then get back what we had. I didn’t want what we had before, because his infidelity came out of it. I wanted him to be different in some ways. I wanted him to have strength to make better choices, but he was so wrapped up in how unfair I was being to make him go over what he did wrong again and again. And how unfair it was that I wouldn’t believe him when he told me he was telling the truth.

Sorry to have gone on and on. I guess this post has hit a nerve with me.

It sounds as though you really want to repair your marriage. It also sounds that your wife has not completed her journey through her pain, or through her fear that you may still be lying, or might lie again in the future. This may seem hard to understand to you, but it is the undeniable result of your choices. You can give up because this doesn’t seem "fair" to you. However, a WS talking about fair has always escaped me.

Or, you can stick it out. You can realize that you have the strength to do whatever it takes for her to have faith in you again. Or not.

I wish you the best of luck. I wish for you that you have a full realization of what you have done. I wish for you that your pain is not only secondary pain from your wife’s reaction, but initial pain from yourself… Realizing the extent of your choices. And I don’t say that because I wish ill for you. But I don’t believe your marriage stands a chance until you can get down in the middle of the horrible choices that you made, and live with them for a little while, and experience, regret, remorse, etc. I think only then can you come out on the other side and understand what you’ve put your wife through, and the strength, patience and understanding it will take to help her get through it, if she ever can.

But please pinch yourself or something when you go down the rabbit hole, looking at this whole situation from your perspective of how you are suffering. There is no guideline for how long it takes a betrayed person to heal. She has suffered not only infidelity, but lies about infidelity. It is so immature and self-absorbed to be looking at this situation from the point of view of how it is hurting YOU. You evidently do not completely understand the reaching effects your choices have made.

(In my situation, in the last 17 years of our marriage I continued to wish that together we could work through anything. But he just felt so bad about everything I was expecting of HIM. He passed away a few weeks ago. Now I will never get to fully reconcile with him. All hope has been taken away. Permanently.)

Please look at your responses when you feel that your wife is being unreasonable. Please think of her, and what all of this has done to her. Perhaps she is being unreasonable. I wonder why?

I wish you well.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 1:45 PM, Sunday, June 16th]

"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy

posts: 8218   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2012   ·   location: Southeast USA
id 8839921
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Copingmybest ( member #78962) posted at 8:45 AM on Wednesday, June 19th, 2024

WhatsRight, that was so amazingly well written from a BS point of view. I feel every detail you have written to my core. I can say that with my WW I just want to see more (or some) effort to change from the person who cheated in the first place. It seems our situation is stalled because it’s about how this has all affected her and how it has affected me seems to hardly register in her head.

And as to the comment from The OP about a couple sleepless nights on the couch, try about 3 years of that shit my friend.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 8:47 AM, Wednesday, June 19th]

posts: 275   ·   registered: Jun. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Midwest
id 8840117
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