SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You show no remorse for what you did. You've talked about how your first wife didn't get over you (almost boasting about it). You don't acknowledge the pain you caused her, or the fact that she has struggled with relationships since you (she has trust issues, and trauma from what you did to her).

You are clearly still wayward.

Yep and always will be. My wife said to be nice.

You are correct! I have always enjoyed a good exchange.

@Atomic_Mess

A good exchange in any conversation requires all parties to bring something to the discussion. Frankly the only thing I see you bring to any exchange is the vitriol in which you have treated your wife and some of the people who have taken their time to respond. This only demonstrates a serious lack of character.

To your question you will always be a wayward, and honestly an unrepentant one at that. Perhaps you should spend your time working on on that deficiency.

HikingOut said:

Well then, I am tapping out and using my energy for people who are struggling and needing help. There is really no way to interact with you in which I will learn something or help you. That is what I am here for. Keep reading and best of luck.

When HikingOut bails on a thread and overtly says so, in my line of work we call that "a clue."

AtomicMess you have a PM

When HikingOut bails on a thread and overtly says so, in my line of work we call that "a clue."

I am here to interact with people. Even negative connection is better than no connection.

Whoa.... Gently, you're wrong. If you're not aware that negative strokes hurt, you're lying to yourself.

*****

As for your W, who I took to have become aware of your cheating when you did it, being betrayed hurt. People bury pain. You should know that, since you pretty clearly do it yourself.

*****

I suspect you're wrong in attributing the cause of pain years after an A to the BS staying with their WS. The pain is due to stuffing the pain when it was fresh. Stuffing pain just lets it fester and grow. You can figure out how I came to that conclusion ... it's the same process by which you came to believe negative strokes are better than no strokes.

*****

Here's a suggestion: start again on SI.

One way would be to open a thread in G or WS with something like:

I haven't cheated in over 40 years, but my behavior back then still bothers the hell out of me. What can I do to make it go away?

Don't want to say that? Ask another question and share another feeling.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:18 PM, Sunday, May 19th]

My ex-W divorcing me for cheating on her was the best thing she could have done for the both of us. She got out of infidelity, went on to remarry, divorce again because he wasn't me, and just recently remarried for the third time after an LTR.

I think this also deserves comment. EVEN IF seemingly all relevant parties agree that your marriage ending worked out for the best for everyone involved, it still does not mean that your actions did not cause serious harm.

Instead of wondering how you are viewed, do you ever consider how your decision-making affected other people i.e., the pain it brought them?

You didn't really answer my questions, atomic.

What made you consider SI at all? I understand turning toward forums to search for others with common ground to connect with. What draws you to SI? What common ground do you see here, or are you looking for? If this period of your life is resolved and done with, what brings you here? Do you still consider yourself wayward maybe?

Your excuse for avoiding the BW stories sounds like an excuse. You're in your 70's right? So even though you're a man, you have some understanding of women on some level, well enough to get along with your current wife. You do have the ability to some degree to step into another person's shoes and understand their unique perspective, regardless of gender. So it's not that you can't empathize or understand a woman's perspective. You even admit you're willing to put yourself in a WW's shoes. It might be that you don't want to for some reason. Maybe you're avoiding facing the pain you didn't have to face with the divorce. Divorce is the easy way out for us waywards. I'm guessing here. Only you know, if you're willing to find out.

You missed my last two questions entirely.

What did you learn about yourself from your affair? I hear that you realized you weren't ready to be in a monogamous committed relationship at the time, but what had you go for an affair rather than, divorcing your wife to date freely or doing what you needed to be satisfied with what you had?

You're not my client so I can't say for certain, but I know that psycho- and sociopathy are EXTREMELY rare, if they even exist. You also have expressed some ability to empathy. You strike me as someone with unaddressed attachment and/or trauma who has developed an automatic numbing/avoidance to uncomfortable emotions. Take this with a grain of salt as I'm not your therapist.

You sort of got dogpiled here. That's kind of a risk for waywards posting outside of the wayward side, especially something that comes across a bit bitter about the consequences of your own actions. However, I'm genuinely interested in your honest responses and sincerely hope for your sake that you start/continue doing some deep introspection. Keep posting, but maybe in the wayward section.

I really don't comprehend their reactions to being betrayed.

If you've never been to India, you just will never really know what it is like.

I asked you a question in response to a previous thread that you completely ignored.

The answer to my question, basically why are you here, seems to be for your own entertainment. You bring nothing of any value to any thread that I’ve seen. Of your "heroes"… someone correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Spaceghost proven to be a troll?

On another forum I belonged to, when a troll was suspected, we’d just start posting recipes. That got me the Red Flag of Death so I won’t be doing that again. I’m just going to encourage my fellow members to do what HO did and I am going to do. Just back on out, spend our energy elsewhere and hope this dude finds entertainment elsewhere.

I will add, however, that the idea of finding entertainment in the pain of people going through the most horrific of betrayals is pathetic. Why don’t you go to a children’s hospital and make fun of those kids because they can’t run and play outside like you can?

Sheesh.

Not sure what I want if anything. I am not here to make friends--don't need them. I am here to interact with people. Even negative connection is better than no connection

You say you have no remorse. You say you have no goal or agenda other than to interact with others.

That is not what this site is about. This site is about healing. That healing isn’t limited to specific people. That healing isn’t limited to certain paths such as divorce. Healing takes many forms.

It is impossible to understand that unless you have direct experience. You can not tell a BH what path to take if you can not understand what it is to be in their shoes. On the other side of that coin, you can not give advice for waywards because you do not have remorse.

This site is not a social experiment. These are real people in real pain and I take offense as the administrator of it that you are disrespecting the simple guidelines of this site.

This seems to be a joke to you. I am not ok with that. If you do not want to consider yourself a WS that’s fine. Find another site to interact with. Do not take valuable attention away from members that actually need support.

Sorry! Been too busy with my wonderful to reply. She told me to be nice to you all.

The powers that be are keeping me classified as a Wayward. I really wanted to be able to post in JFO. So, I will only read on JFO.

To cover a few comments:

A few posters have said I show no remorse. I definitely have regret for what I did to my ex-W and my wife prior to our marriage. I am not exactly sure that I have remorse as that is a feeling foreign to me.

Another poster said I seemed to be bragging about what I did to my ex-W. Not true! I just reiterated what she told me. She came into town about 4-5 years after our divorce and showed up at our place--my wife then gf and I were living together. We made plans and met for a 2-3 hour lunch. It was a good talk. I apologized for what I did to her and we caught up on our lives during the lunch. She told me about what happen to her second marriage. She said he wasn't me and just sat at home getting stoned when he wasn't working. She said she regretted pulling the trigger so fast on our divorce. She wished she had given me more time. I spoke to her 2 additional times after my marriage to my wife close 10 years after our divorce. Just catching up and talking about the past. A few years ago, my wife ran into her at their HS class reunion--HS classmates. They spoke a bit. The ex-W's parents had both passed away and she was iun town settling their estate. My wife ran into her brother and his wife at last year's reunion. They told her about the ex-W's recent marriage after her LTR with her now husband. We asked them relay our congrats to them.

As for your W, who I took to have become aware of your cheating when you did it, being betrayed hurt. People bury pain. You should know that, since you pretty clearly do it yourself.

sisoon--I did not nor have not cheated on my wife since she became my wife. I cheated on her prior to marriage. She was very aware as I was pretty up front about my wondering ways. She was not aware of the affair I had a few months prior to our wedding. She had no clue about it until I disclosed a couple of years ago. I discussed the buried pain statement thoroughly with my wife. She claims to have no buried pain. She is just happy that she ultimately ended up with me. She is/was pretty persistent about not having any pain. I don't believe I have any buried pain only regret. We are very truthful to bluntness with one another. That is one of things I love about my wife. What you see is what you get.

As to your suggestion of opening a second thread about being bothered by my actions, I can't really say I am bothered by my actions back then. I really enjoyed my life back then as a wayward and now as a faithful husband.

A good exchange in any conversation requires all parties to bring something to the discussion. Frankly the only thing I see you bring to any exchange is the vitriol in which you have treated your wife and some of the people who have taken their time to respond. This only demonstrates a serious lack of character.

To your question you will always be a wayward, and honestly an unrepentant one at that. Perhaps you should spend your time working on on that deficiency.

hardyfool--I felt folks were twisting my words and reading more into them than what was written. That caused me to push back in a manner they expected from their perception of me.

Not sure what you mean by my treatment of my wife. I have always treated her with love and respect since she became my wife. You are correct about me being unrepentant of my actions prior to my second marriage--Regretful yes, Repentant no.

I used to have to battle my wayward tendencies when we first got married. Old habits are hard to break. I constantly monitored myself when I was younger to prevent screwing up our marriage and life together. I didn't want our marriage to go sideways as did my first marriage. Now, it is so ingrained I no longer have to put myself in check. So, I have not been wayward for about 40 years in my mind even though I had/have wayward tendencies in the past.

On a side note. I very much respect how you handled your infidelity situation and the continued ongoing drama with the ex-W & your children. I might have said that already. Sorry if I did.

morted--I will try to answer your questions.

1. What made you turn to SI? I actually post significantly more on other relationship forums. I am not drawn to SI any more than the others. I didn't know I needed anything from anonymous posters in order to be a member and to post.

2. Avoiding BW posts. I avoid them because as I stated I can't place myself in their "shoes". I also don't find theirs posts interesting to be frank. After reading a few, I just stopped once I realized it was a woman posting. Regarding WW posts, I do read some of those--just not many. I can't understand how they threw a hand grenade into their marriage blowing it up and then trying to show remorse to BH. I have to admit there have been a few exceptions on SI and other forums where the WW did show true remorse. I do read some WH posts as well--again not many. I don't really understand the hand wringing they exhibit though.

Actually, my ex-W divorced me. Otherwise, I would probably stilled be married to her. So, divorce was not an easy way out for me. I wanted to stay married; but, thought it might be best for the ex-W. The divorce did allow me to realize I wanted to have sex with a lot of different women until it got old. So, not really in pain at all only regret.

3. Not ready for monogamous marriage. Like a lot of cheaters, I didn't actively look for an affair. I met a woman. I thought she was hot. She knew I was in a relationship. We had sex several times over a month or two. Once I married the ex-W, she said she couldn't see me any more. I said I understood and we never saw one another again. I did go on to have 2 more ONS with 2 different women about a year into our marriage. Same reasons, they were hot and I couldn't force myself to resist. I wasn't very good at hiding my cheating either. I was easily caught. The ex-W said she was done after I wasn't where I was supposed to one night. Funny thing about that night, I wasn't cheating that night just having a few beers with a mixed company of coworkers.

I jumped into a year long rebound relationship while our divorce was proceeding. My ex-W did as well. He ended up being husband #2. I was more covert with the rebound regarding my cheating. I cheated on her much more than the ex-W. I even had sex with her best friend. I liked having sex with the rebound as she was pretty petite and I also liked sex with other women unfortunately. I broke up with her for that reason. I stayed single for the next 2-3 years having sexual relations with many women. I met my wife around year 3, continued my womanizing ways for 2 more years until we married.

What I learned about myself is that I used to enjoy the romancing of a new woman as much as the sex. Not sure what drove that. I just know I did enjoy new women very much until it got old. My wife was in the right place and time. She is also the right person for me to throw off my previous ways even if it took me a couple of years. She stuck with me through it and didn't give up easily. Her mom told me my wife always gets what she wants in the end.

Not really seeing how "You strike me as someone with unaddressed attachment and/or trauma who has developed an automatic numbing/avoidance to uncomfortable emotions." It doesn't fit me at all.

4. Dogpiled. I intentionally posted here in G expecting it. I had seen it here on SI before from reading many many historical posts. I had been reading here 3+ years prior to joining. So, it wasn't anything unexpected. A lot of folks like to cast the first stone.

5. I overlooked your empathy statement. I don't believe I am empathic at all. I am extremely sympathetic however. My heart really does go out to folks facing any kind of hardship.

Okay, wrapping this up. Sorry to the folks that believe in karma! My wife and I have had a wonderful life together maybe even magical. We moved 2000 miles away from our home town within 2 weeks of getting married moving away from family and friends. We had very little money or assets growing up and when we got married. We had to scrape for everything. That changed within 3 years of marriage. We bought a house with my parents assistance with the down payment.

My wife's career started really taking off. I eventually settled into a 25 year career in IT after some hit and misses. We were DINKS (dual income no kids) for almost 9 years relying on one another. We really got to know one another deeply before our sons came along. We both cry and laugh at Rom-Coms. We both hate horror movies. We love the same music. We are both fiscal conservatives. We had good to great sex in our younger days and still do even at our age. Hard to beat the ex-W in the sex department. She was a sexual dynamo.

My wife will retire in a few years--I'm already retired. We have a 4000 sq ft home that we will sell for a great profit when she retires. We came from nothing and now have a few million in assets. We are excited for the next phase of our life together. My wife has been my best friend, companion, lover, and the best partner in life a man can ask for. This is why I always say the ex-W divorcing me was the best thing she could have done when I cheated. We both have moved on to better lives.

[This message edited by atomic_mess at 5:05 PM, Sunday, May 19th]

You are very much a wayward who will trigger new BS in JFO and they are right to block access to posting in there for you.

The fact that the man you are now thinks what you did then was just fine because you were enjoying your life, and that you cheated on the woman who is your wife - assuming I read that correctly - before you were married to her but have the gall to say you have not cheated on her since you were married as if that were some kind of accomplishment worthy of praise places you firmly in that deserved category.

There are many WS here who have worked hard to understand why they did what they did and why it was wrong. Maybe start there.

You are very much a wayward who will trigger new BS in JFO and they are right to block access to posting in there for you.

The fact that the man you are now thinks what you did then was just fine because you were enjoying your life, and that you cheated on the woman who is your wife - assuming I read that correctly - before you were married to her but have the gall to say you have not cheated on her since you were married as if that were some kind of accomplishment worthy of praise places you firmly in that deserved category.

There are many WS here who have worked hard to understand why they did what they did and why it was wrong. Maybe start there.

I appreciate your reply. I just don't agree with it. Maybe my morals are screwed up? Dunno. My wife walked into our relationship eyes wide open. I warned her I was not a monogamous kind of guy. Other people warned her I was a womanizer as well. I was widely known in our hometown because of where I worked and knew many thousands of people and even more knew me. Sorry! I did very much enjoy my life then and now.

I am sincerely regretful I cheated on the ex-W. I definitely hurt her badly. But, I don't know what remorse is. I've stated these a few times now.

AtomicMess, I’ve officially upgraded your status from Wayward to Asshole. 😜

Welcome aboard!

That's okay. You can disagree. You have the option to be wrong.

The thing that I am bemused by is that you call yourself a cheater but don't seem to like others calling you that. As if you have some positive connotation to the word for yourself but don't like the ugly reality others are presenting.

As for your wife knowing what she was in for, either she was okay with an open relationship where you fucked random women, or she wasn't. Putting a ring on it doesn't make you less of a cheater because your white knuckling your dick through your golden years.

I'm a BW, so you may not read this, but, I find your comments extremely helpful.

I don't like them,but they're honest. And I can appreciate that. I think its very important for the new betrayed wives to really read,and hear, what you're saying. At home,they have a freshly caught WS, who has been very comfortable lying to her, for a very long time. He's telling her "what she wants to hear." (Something that many WH tell their BW..as if they're so original they would change patterns). I think a lot of ws do that. They tell us what we want to hear,and we accept it..eventually..because it feels better than believing the alternative.

And, here you are, very boldly telling us that you really enjoyed what you were doing. Sure, you're sorry she got hurt, and you regret that, but you aren't remorseful.. you're not sorry for what you did, you're sorry for how she feels. This is what no remorse is. BS often ask the difference. This is what no remorse looks like. They care..but not really.

AM admits he never did any real work on himself. Yes, he's been faithful during the marriage. But he's clearly wayward in his thinking. This is what happens when the ws never does the work to change. 50 years later,they still talk about how fun it was, and are more sorry that they were caught, but not for their actions.

This is why we insist on holding the ws accountable, and we say they must do the work to become a safe partner.

I think it's great to hear a different perspective. I find it off putting,sure, but I also find it honest. And I'd rather have honesty over being told "what I want to hear."

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:00 AM, Monday, May 20th]

I took a quick breathe when I saw HF’s name pop up on this thread. It wasn’t what I was expecting, less flames, but well worth the read.

Well said, friend.

I think HellFire really hit it for me. I have known since this thread started that I didn’t want any part of commenting on Atomic’s mess here, so I’ll just post and move on to productive activities.

To me, as HellFire said, you are so very wayward in everything that you say, especially in the fact that you focus on the technical definitions of cheating and assert that you haven’t cheated on your current wife "since you got married," over and over. You are constantly giving yourself the out of technicalities and omissions—what you DIDN’t do to justify what you DID do. You make so many distinctions without differences and seem to think that everyone should just buy it.

Anyway, I agree with the posters who don’t find any productive reason to spend time and energy on your thread other than to point out to new BS’s that when your WS says exactly this kind of shit, they are not good candidates for R. Just affirming that, if you have an interest, HellFire’s assessment is right on. You’ve never really accepted accountability for your actions—they were all just in the service of enjoying yourself and when you enjoyed yourself by being faithful to your now wife, you did that.

Good to have that square footage number, lol. Yeah, it’s important stuff in the wayward/not wayward discussion. You seem to think that you’re a helluva guy with a helluva life.

Okey dokey.

So again what are you doing here? It seems mostly just doing what tons of internet trolls do—trying to get a rise out of poking at people and attempting to start a fight you feel smug and superior about. It’s just not working for you here. People see wayward written all over everything you say.

Frankly, when you said that you want to be reclassified as not wayward specifically so that you can post on BS’s threads, I just see a huge red flag. Nope, you have no business doing that unless, as I said, you are just looking to do harm and hit traumatized people when they’re down. Fortunately, this site protects BS’s in JFO from being subjected to abuse from people like you.

If your life is so great, go and have it. If you’re so not wayward and not about infidelity these days, no need for you to hang out with people who are struggling with it and seeking support. You’re all good.

Go in peace. I’m out.

[This message edited by NowWhat106 at 12:46 AM, Monday, May 20th]