SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

To be honest, I think you might be getting spit on the definition of "remorse". You say you've got regret and that you don't know what remorse is, but I think you're probably more remorseful than you realize. You've said that you wish you hadn't done it and that you didn't want to hurt anyone. You also came clean to your current wife when you probably would never have been caught, and the two of you worked through it and achieved a consensus together. That tells me that you wanted the kind of emotional closeness that only honesty can bring.

The hallmark of remorse, really, is being able to empathize with the victim, and I see that in the way you've described your current relationship with your wife and your ex. Empathy is basically just walking a mile in the other guy's shoes, right?

Anyway, I find your posting style to be radically honest, and yeah... the AtomicMess of the past might have reveled in his waywardness in such a way as to be very triggering to some of us but I don't think he's necessarily representative of your current values forty faithful years later.

To be honest, I think you might be getting spit on the definition of "remorse". You say you've got regret and that you don't know what remorse is, but I think you're probably more remorseful than you realize. You've said that you wish you hadn't done it and that you didn't want to hurt anyone. You also came clean to your current wife when you probably would never have been caught, and the two of you worked through it and achieved a consensus together. That tells me that you wanted the kind of emotional closeness that only honesty can bring.

The hallmark of remorse, really, is being able to empathize with the victim, and I see that in the way you've described your current relationship with your wife and your ex. Empathy is basically just walking a mile in the other guy's shoes, right?

Anyway, I find your posting style to be radically honest, and yeah... the AtomicMess of the past might have reveled in his waywardness in such a way as to be very triggering to some of us but I don't think he's necessarily representative of your current values forty faithful years later.

ChamomileTea--I had a rhetoric teacher in HS Honors English tell me my writing style was brutally honest and direct. You are not 75ish are you? That teach was just out of college. She was a great teacher. Made a boring subject fun.

The thing with remorse is I don't feel any guilt nor self-directed resentment. I only truly regret my actions.

As for empathy, I don't really have a feel for what BS or even WS experience. I would definitely not respond in the manner that I have read on these forums. My reaction to being slapped in the face is to punch them in the mouth.

AtomicMess, I’ve officially upgraded your status from Wayward to Asshole. 😜

HouseOfPlain--I resemble that remark!

AM admits he never did any real work on himself. Yes, he's been faithful during the marriage. But he's clearly wayward in his thinking. This is what happens when the ws never does the work to change. 50 years later,they still talk about how fun it was, and are more sorry that they were caught, but not for their actions.

This is why we insist on holding the ws accountable, and we say they must do the work to become a safe partner.

HellFire--I misrepresented what I read. I do read posts/responses I don't read the threads/stories. You are one of my favorite posters.

I do care when I hurt people. It just doesn't stop me from hurting them in the moment.

Several posters have said I am still very wayward even after being faithful for 40+ years. Then, there is the doing the work statements. What the hell does that even mean?

Some of these things almost seem cult like. I think I am in an alternate reality when I read on SI and jump back into the Spider-Verse to a different reality, LoL!

Apologies to all if my writing style and opinions are too direct for some folks! I figured they would be. That is why I rarely post.

Atomic_mess stated that the best thing his ex wife did after he cheated was to divorce him.

I strongly believe that being able to elaborate the grief and being able to discuss how a hurtful choice was made can only add meaning not only for the relationship, but considering that many end the relationship also after some therapy, the discussion with the betrayed partner becomes a learning experience about themsleves and about how people process their pain.

Not having had these long and painful conversations did not give Atomic_mess the opportunity to learn from that experience and the sole choice of his name tells me he is still in a mess. Had he been in therapy about it, I am sure he wouldn’t still be in his atomic mess.

Can we ignore this guy now? Because this is going nowhere.

Can we ignore this guy now? Because this is going nowhere.

Feel free, IH! I really do hope you find peace someday.

Ignoring my post to you AM?

I don't really have a feel for what BS or even WS experience.

SurvivingInfidelity.com® is a place for healing and rebuilding your self-esteem, relationship and self worth after the devastating effects that Infidelity can bring into your life.

If you do not identify as a WS, how do you feel you qualify as a member?

You’re getting caught up again in technicality.

You’re still of a cheater mindset even if you didn’t cheat on current wife for the following reasons:

No remorse at all. 0. You had a blast and you come off as just the best damn thing for any woman to have. Seriously, every time you post it’s about how many women adore you.

You’ve been lying to yourself and your current W for decades. She didn’t marry you with her eyes open because you lied to her. You lied again and again for years, and only recently disclosed that you took away her agency. Here, how would you feel if you found out that your wife had just a ONS before you were married and told you now? If you ignore everything else i write answer that one question.

Everything is all about you and your feelings but you don’t have any ability to understand or comprehend. You cheat, it’s fine. Someone cheats on you, hell to pay. Thats selfish.

I’ll be honest, you’re not a psychopath (as first that’s a trait of Antisocial Personality Disorder not an actual diagnosis), I’d wager you’re a more of a typical narcissist. Perhaps start there and see what you find.

The thing with remorse is I don't feel any guilt nor self-directed resentment. I only truly regret my actions.

As for empathy, I don't really have a feel for what BS or even WS experience.

Honest question then... what is it that has stopped you from from further infidelity? Clearly, there was a point in your life in which infidelity was a valid choice in your decision tree, but then.. it wasn't. What changed?

You might not feel like you can relate to the WS experience, but that is EXACTLY the experience you've had and that you can speak to.

What the hell does that even mean?

Good question.

It's often said,on here..if they do the work they can become a safe partner...if they're remorseful they can become safe,and the chances are low that they will do it again.

Except that's not always true. I know that goes against what many need to believe here. But, we can't deny we have member after member, who join,or rejoin, and say they're ws did it again, years later. Often, those BS are told that the ws must not have been genuine in their work, or their remorse. In some situations, that may be the case. But certainly not all situations. It's insulting. I'm one of those bs. He did the work. He was truly remorseful. I'm not naive. I knew what to watch for. I'm not easily manipulated and I did not rug sweep. I didn't blame ow. Etc,etc. He was held accountable, and was the picture of a fws.

He did it again. Because he wanted to. And I think that's what it boils down to. Come up with all the reasons why..they all start with..because they wanted to.

Maybe you met your wife,and simply decided you didn't want to be a cheating husband again. You no longer wanted to. I trust that,more than an ws who does the "work." I've come to think if a person has to work on not being unfaithful, work on respecting their bs, work on not having sex with other people..then I dont want that in my marriage. Which is why I'm filing for divorce. I want a man who wants to be faithful. Not one who has to work on it.

I find your honesty extremely helpful. It's certainly helped me.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:28 PM, Monday, May 20th]

Hellfire,

Well said. I think what you said is vital for R. This forum and indeed a lot of other affair recovery sites all have a checklist for R to work and it can lull a BS into a sense of "well they did x,y,z they won’t cheat again" that isn’t true at all, and happens a lot more then we all would like to admit. I think everyone needs to fully understand the risks of R, and you/AM seem to be showing a side that a lot would rather be hidden.

ChamomileTea--I will respond to you and the last few posters. You have shown me a lot of courtesy and grace. I really appreciate it. But, the response will be later today or tomorrow. My wife is off today and we have a full day of doctor appointments and whatnot starting in 30 mins. It will most likely be lengthy since it needs some background.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to throw out narcissism. That seems a common statement. IE, My WH was a narcissist. Narcissism is strong in this one and etc. I don't exhibit the controlling behavior of a narcissist to isolate their prey from family or friends and etc.

More later.

I'm one of those bs. He did the work. He was truly remorseful. I'm not naive. I knew what to watch for. I'm not easily manipulated and I did not rug sweep. I didn't blame ow. Etc,etc. He was held accountable, and was the picture of a fws.

Hellfire, correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure I have seen you state your husband is a narcissist. Like diagnosed. Is this correct or am I misremembering?

The reason I ask is my understanding is they are incapable of remorse or empathy and very rarely if ever can it be cured. I am not trying to call you out, I am trying to understand.

I just wanted to pop on in response to "the work."

For me, the work is for the WS to figure out who they are and what they really want.

I don't subscribe to the 40 point checklist with the BS driving and monitoring every inch of the way.

I truly believe some folks cheat and then hate what they've done to themselves and their families. It might take someone one time to feel that and others longer but I think waywards that reach a point where they are appalled at who they have become, can repair and not cheat again. Mostly because they truly want to be with their spouse and family.

There are of course people who just shouldn't be married or enter into a monogamous relationship. They try to be what society expects them to be on the outside but it's not really what they want so they will likely continue to cheat.

Ignoring my post to you AM?

If you do not identify as a WS, how do you feel you qualify as a member?

WalkinOnEggshelz--I didn't know you were so important that you can demand a response. Should I call you Sir WalkinOnEggshelz? Sorry, I couldn't resist being a wiseguy. I actually overlooked it. Maybe there should be a None of the Above restricted from both JFO & WS?

HellIsNotHalfFull--Regarding lying to my wife. She was definitely warned by me and others. She even had a coworker approach her to warn her I was a love them leave them kind of guy. I worked with her coworker's husband.

Hard to lie when you run into her sister while out at a dance club with your arm wrapped around a blonde hottie sitting a couple of tables over.

Hard to lie when you show up pick to her up with hickies and scratches on you from the night before.

I only ever withheld the affair during our engagement from her. I am absolutely certain she would have married me anyway. I asked her last night to confirm if she would have married me if I told her of my affair when I broke it off. She replied, "Yah, most likely." A year or two ago my sister asked why she put up with it like she did. The wife replied, " Because I loved/love him."

Regarding a ONS, if anyone cheated on me, I would walk away and never look back. Another woman is/was right around the corner. Plain and simple as that. Luckily, the ex-W, the rebound, and the wife are all very loyal women and totally in love with me. I never had to face anyone cheating on me.

There was a thread on another forum regarding high body count hindering pair bonding for women and men--making it hard to deeply connect. I think that is false; but, it does make the HBC person aware that they can get a replacement readily.

Narcicism is not strong in this one. I am not a psycopath or sociopath either. I don't intentionally hurt someone. I was just a philanderer.

If you're not a ws why are you even here? Touring other people's pain while talking yourself up?

You're obviously not here for help or to help anyone. Other than shit stirring for your own entertainment what is your point?

ChamomileTea--What changed? I think I need to start at the beginning to learn how I got from being a man hoe to doting faithful husband.

As a teen, I was ass-backward shy nerd-athlete when it came to women. I had a lot of female friends. But, extremely shy with the ones I wanted to date, stammering when I spoke to them and blushing outrageously. During my teens, I had 3 girlfriends of short duration and 2 of them were friends of my younger sister, LoL! Complete shyness and insecurity was strong in this one. I got much better with age--late teens and especially my 20s.

When I was 19, I fell head over heels with this girl. She wasn't beautiful just beautiful to me. The relationship lasted about a year. I was emotionally immature and actually believed in the "One and Only" romanticism. I thought we were meant to be together forever. I placed her on a pedestal--very much a bad mistake by a man. She kicked the pedestal over. I realized I loved her much more than she loved me. No matter how much it pained me and boy did it, I broke up with her. This broke me and I think I am still impacted by it today.

I fell into depression and started drinking alcohol and smoking heavily. I was a nerd-athlete, remember? While I had drank, I had never smoked before. I was in an alcoholic dazed state for about a year. The year I turned 21, I quit drinking and smoking cold turkey. The withdrawals were terrible let me tell you.

Almost a year into my sobriety, I met my ex-W. She had a smile that could light up the sky. She was somewhat tall around 5'8", blonde hair, best legs I had ever seen, nice butt, small waist, big chest, and would tan golden brown in summer. The typical girl next door. I fell hard.

Wasn't it Thumos' wife that said he was sexually immature? That was me as I raise my hand. If you kept count, she was my 5th girlfriend and only the third sexual relationship. She actually had 1 more sexual relationship than I at the time. Neither of us were very sexually experienced though. We learned to be freaky together. From our experimentation, I learned to be a great lover and so did she. The ex-W was probably the most sexual dynamo I have ever met. But she was also very monogamous. A one man woman kind of girl. My eyes started straying a few months into our relationship ultimately leading to my 3 affairs and subsequent divorce. We lasted only 3 short years including the 6 month mandatory divorce wait.

Rebound girl was my 8th sexual relationship. She was 5'1" and 105 lbs. Small adequate chest, nice legs, and a small but fleshy bubble butt. She was a virgin when we met. About 3 months into our relationship, I started the wandering eye again. For the next 7-8 months I had somewhere around 10+ ONSs culminating in sex with her best-friend. I broke up with her because I didn't want to be that guy any longer.

Every sexual skill I had learned from the ex-W, I put to good use and added more to my repertoire with Rebound and the affairs I had while seeing her. I became an accomplished lover in 4 short years. I turned 26 years old shortly after I broke up with Rebound.

The emotionally immature romantic in me and the sexually immature me was gone. For the next 3 years, I had numerous ONSs with a few short term relationships sprinkled in. I liked having a steady no-strings attached woman or two while meeting up with strays a couple of times a week. At times I was juggling 3-4 women, it got kind of hectic to keep track of the commitments I made. What is sad is I don't remember the majority of them.

It was getting old--lots meaningless sex with no real deep attachment. But, it had become my way of life. It was hard to get out of it. At the end of my second year single I had 2 somewhat more involved relationships. I met my future wife toward the end of the 3 years.

When I first met her, I didn't really pay attention to her. I was talking to her friend. That friend had drag her out after she got off work with no chance to change out of her uniform. The uniform was a sack--not flattering at all. Her makeup was non existent and her hair a mess. Her friend and I were holding hands and kissing by the end of the night. We made plans to meet up a few days.

I had a type--attractive blonde, petite, shapely, and nice legs and butt. Her friend was that type. My wife was not. Her friend and I showed up first. We were sitting at a table when my future wife walked in. Wow! What transformation!

She had brunette hair, prettier than I thought when I first met her, around 5'3", nice chest very small waist, nice legs, and a big round bubble butt. She looked like she could have been one of the white girl dancers on a rapper's video. My jaw hit the ground. I spent the next hour holding hands with her friend but talking to her. She said I gave her butterflies talking to her that she tried to cover up.

About an hour in, her friend got up and said she was heading out. That the future wife and I had more in common anyway. We closed down the bar and then went to a park by my place. We played on the jungle gym, slide, swings, talking, laughing, and making out until daylight.

She went to work the next day raving about me. That was when she was warned about me. She asked and I told her the truth about my philandering ways. She was still went ahead and we entered into a non-exclusive relationship. I was seeing other women when I wasn't with her.

I figured she would be one of my no-strings attached relationships. What I didn't plan on was falling in love with her. She gave me enough space to roam. About 4-5 months or so into our relationship, I went to pick her up. The girl I had been with the night gave me a bunch of hickies. When she saw them, I could see the sadness and disappointment in her. I also realized I was impacted by her sadness and disappointment. She was more important to me than I had realized. I started wanting to be a better man for her that day.

I stopped seeing other women after that. We moved into together at the end of a year knowing her. I asked her to marry around the end of the second year. I had the one last affair while engaged. When the AP caught feelings, I stopped seeing her. We married close to 3 years after we met.

Philandering got old and I didn't want to throw a hand-grenade into our relationship. I had finally turned a corner. My wife made/makes me a better man.

This is my life story condensed. I hope this answers your question.

I was emotionally immature and actually believed in the "One and Only" romanticism. I thought we were meant to be together forever. I placed her on a pedestal--very much a bad mistake by a man.

Is it wise for a woman to put a man on a pedestal?

She kicked the pedestal over.

How?

I realized I loved her much more than she loved me. No matter how much it pained me and boy did it, I broke up with her. This broke me and I think I am still impacted by it today.

You broke up, and it broke you? In any case, I can believe her kicking over the pedestal could be impacting you today. What I don't see is your taking acting to mitigate the impact, other than by attacking the possibility of R and by complaining about being classified as a WS.

Or have I misinterpreted what you've written?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:19 PM, Tuesday, May 21st]

About 4-5 months or so into our relationship, I went to pick her up. The girl I had been with the night gave me a bunch of hickies. When she saw them, I could see the sadness and disappointment in her. I also realized I was impacted by her sadness and disappointment. She was more important to me than I had realized. I started wanting to be a better man for her that day.

Sounds like remorse to me. You saw the effects of your actions on the person you loved and then... changed your behavior. And yeah, you backslid again, but then got back on the fidelity horse and stayed there for 45 years. I don't think you're as far past SI redemption as you seem to think. lol

I do wonder how Fidelity scores in your personal values system though. After many years of study, I believe that fidelity is a out character, and that character is about the values we care enough about to protect.

atomic mess will not be returning to thiss thread or any others for that matter.