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I read somewhere that an affair is what a person does instead of committing suicide. It stopped me in my tracks. Has anyone read that? It makes sense because if you think about it a lot of suicides are not really about dying it’s really about escaping pain.

I am sometimes concerned during the lows of the aftermath that he goes back to that place of such regret and self loathing that he might consider it. Really the pain from infidelity is so great I never realized that the WS is also suffering.

I typed in another post this sentiment:

It’s strange to see someone you love faulter like this even separate from how devastating it was for me. It hurts me to know how much insecurity he had that I was unaware of.

Do you ever get overwhelmed by the knowing your spouse was in such a low place that they were in desperation and depression and chose to self destruct? Like literally, it was really about them, not your marriage, not you- it was about their life and them wanting to end it as it was.

I hate when I’m empathetic toward my fWH.🫤

I have heard the same thing. In fact, sadly, my brother took his life two days before this past Christmas. My sister in law and I have spent hours talking about what lead him to this choice. They were in a similar place that we were during FWH’s A. I think there are a lot of parallels. Both were in a middle aged phase of life. Both left abject chaos in their wakes.

I think, and I’m not diminishing the pain of all of this. I think, developmentally, as adults, we reach a place where A is sometimes part of the deal. Doesn’t make it right. Though, I’m grateful my FWH didn’t choose the same path as my brother.

I’m also very, very grateful for all the sage advice about grieving that I’ve learned here and through recovery. It gave me something helpful to say to my family about recovering from my brother’s choices.

Hi- The source I read on that was Dr. Frank Pittman. He said affairs are often done by someone who is not ready for suicide.

I agree with him, but I do not have suicidal tendencies. I did however feel like my life was over and never going to get better. It was deep pain and loneliness.

However, even in my lowest points after dday, which were in my eyes even lower and worse, I did not have suicidal ideation. But again, he said not ready for suicide which I interpreted as a level below that sort of pain.

I have hesitated posting this as to not sound insensitive. I mentioned on another thread the other day that a WS doesn’t truly get it if they’ve never been betrayed. My W didn’t fully understand my pain until her Mothers suicide in 2021. I really had to help her through it like a BS. She blamed herself for not being a good daughter, she cried out that she would have done anything for her not to do it. So many parallels infidelity betrayal. It really helped us both heal understanding the similarities in the betrayal. She had a hard time getting through the idea that her Mother, killed her Mother. Much like our R journey, our WS killed the M we are trying to restore.

[This message edited by Tanner at 5:49 PM, Wednesday, February 14th]

I read somewhere that an affair is what a person does instead of committing suicide. It stopped me in my tracks. Has anyone read that? It makes sense because if you think about it a lot of suicides are not really about dying it’s really about escaping pain.

Do you ever get overwhelmed by the knowing your spouse was in such a low place that they were in desperation and depression and chose to self destruct? Like literally, it was really about them, not your marriage, not you- it was about their life and them wanting to end it as it was.

I'm sorry, but that sounds like complete crap concocted by a WS who is trying elicit sympathy from their BS.

If anything, an affair is what someone does in lieu of murdering their spouse. Because that's what it feels like... to have life as you know it completely annihilated by someone who was supposed to love, cherish, and protect you.

To be clear, I'm not saying that cheaters can't suffer from severe mental health issues, and there are some betrayed spouses here whose cheaters committed suicide. Affairs rarely happen in a vacuum; they can often be part of a pattern of reckless and self-destructive behavior (like drug use, alcohol abuse, gambling, etc).

But to make a blanket statement that all affairs or even most affairs are born of desperation and depression is self-serving nonsense coming from the WS or may be self-soothing nonsense for a BS.

My ex's problem wasn't that he hated himself; it's that he valued himself so highly that he thought he was entitled to do whatever he wanted. Based on my experience, and the experiences of many others on SI, he is more the norm than the exception.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:19 PM, Wednesday, February 14th]

My ex's problem wasn't that he hated himself; it's that he valued himself so highly that he thought he was entitled to do whatever he wanted.

This is true of my ex too and I sort of winced when reading OP's initial post. I think that an A is what someone does rather than divorce. It's an escape from reality but too afraid to face themselves and the issues they have with the M.

Howcthappen

Agree - an affair is a "suicide" for a marriage - or attempt - Intentional? I don't think so for all affairs - but the famous "exit" - ya

I personally know of a mother who offed herself - made a mess on the marital bed with a 45

Left behind two badly wounded children - one I was personally acquainted with and has never healed from what she saw coming home one day.
The husband/father - and two kids? - all claimed to have no idea of her planning to do the deed.
Dad was in USN and on a ship a lot of their marriage - no women on ships back then (except hospital ships) - so the "why" - no one can answer.

An affair is a suicide? Is the claim an affair is a possible indication of the affair person having an inclination to suicide?
I postulate - a person who has an affair, slippery slope or intentionally, and is then later facing reality and the destruction of their life and the life of others, "chickens out" and then does themself in.

One of the suicides I personally know - person muffed up their life so much they gave up in a very permanent manner.
Paid off house mortgage and deeded over to wife and then . . .

I have read here of many giving a thought as their pain was so great - that doing in themself was a way "out" of the pain.
I have a couple friends that experienced such in their path out of matrimony. One even borrowed one of my pistols "to go varmint hunting" (12 inch barrel) . . .
Says he put the muzzle in his mouth and held it there for several minutes - and finally decided the wife he was losing was not worth HIS life!!! Me moved on to find a good woman.

Although I may catch heat for this, but I feel an A and suicide share a common trait.

They’re both very selfish and destructive acts.

I wouldn’t say I was in pain when I had my A. I was definitely in a very messed up head space. But, like suicide, I absolutely didn’t care about the fallout of my actions. I was only concerned about myself and my feelings.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 7:48 PM, Wednesday, February 14th]

I don't know about him being anywhere near suicidal, but he was definitely in the throes of an emotional shit fit the first time he cheated. We were apart due to a military move, and he was hanging out with his single buddies. Drinking, going out, riding crotch-rockets at ridiculous speeds. He got pulled over doing 100+ on the highway in his hot rod and got a DUI and had to use our housing deposit on bail. ON FATHER'S DAY. (Hey, Freud. How are ya?) And then, of course, he had a ONS. Yeah, he was acting out just a wee bit. We didn't see each other again until almost a year later because he got deployed to Desert Storm literally the day before I was supposed to leave to join him. We hadn't been married long before the first A, so when he came home, I thought his angst was PTSD from wartime stuff. It was, but it was mixed up with an enormous amount of shame from having betrayed me.

He's an anxiety monster by nature, likely a mixture of nature and [lack of] nurture as a child. The only time he ever told me that he felt suicidal was when he had a herniated disc and was in enormous pain for a few months.

I do think that if something crazy ever happened (it'd take something crazy like roofies or something for him to do that to himself again) and he strayed in the future, he probably would feel suicidal afterwards, but I'd bet my life he wouldn't stray because he felt suicidal. He's a different man now than he was when he was cheating, though. He was a mess back then.

ETA: I had an EA and I've never felt anywhere near suicidal. I was bored and stagnant, but never once thought of hurting myself.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:11 PM, Wednesday, February 14th]

My WS was not in a low place for either of his affairs. The first one happened after he had a massive business win, was traveling for work, going to conventions, and having a great time while I was working and taking care of our 5yo. The more recent one started after the pandemic shutdown because he was so sad that he didn't get to sit beside his AP and work with her. I had just thrown him a huge party for his 50th birthday a few weeks earlier at his favorite restaurant with all his favorite friends and coworkers (including AP, UGH). He was again at the top of his game.

That said, he has always had self-esteem and self-control issues, and he got a lot of positive attention from his two APs, so he fell in love with those good feelings. He has struggled with anxiety but never suicide. That's all me. I have been passively suicidal for years, starting during his second affair (I didn't learn about the earlier one until well after dday). I won't do it because of my child (and my therapist), but it's always lurking in my thoughts.

I'm sure the suicidal-leading-to-cheating statement is true for many WSes, but it's not universally true.

I can fully see that this is not true for all WS, and it's probably not true for mine. He has lots of selfish, indulgent tendencies. But for me? 100% true. Anything to distract from my pain. Suicide did cross my mind in the weeks prior to starting the A.

I get that for Blue and others this can feel like it doesn’t apply, or that it’s an excuse, but I can really connect with the original post and ladybug, hiking out, and tanner’s responses.

When my husband had his affair, we were at the tail end of caring for my sister in law in her long, very painful, very difficult road with terminal cancer. It was the middle of Covid, my husband was having lots of midlife crisis type issues, and we were juggling very difficult jobs, raising teenagers, and going through the process of building a garage apartment and moving in my mother in law. I do actually have a lot of sympathy for how low he was (not as much sympathy for the escape he chose). After DDay I was actually afraid he might commit suicide. He was having panic attacks to the point of heart attack-like chest pains.

For my own part, (and I may edit this out later because it’s super personal), I’ve struggled with suicidal thoughts at very low points of my life. I do actually see a connection between affairs and suicide, and in some cases I can see them as being different emotional responses to similar circumstances of desperation and depression and hopelessness and struggle.

One thing that has been so incredibly helpful about this site to me is hearing real honesty from other people about very painful and raw life experiences. Thank you all for sharing and reflecting—for starting and commenting on threads like this one.

Well for all the people saying it’s an excuse I can tell you the only reason I’m still alive is because of my kids. The pain from infidelity almost took me out.

And I thought about cheating on my husband to help me survive this entire ordeal.

Hugs, howcthishappen. I’ve been there. ❤️

Well:

Well for all the people saying it’s an excuse I can tell you the only reason I’m still alive is because of my kids. The pain from infidelity almost took me out.

And I thought about cheating on my husband to help me survive this entire ordeal.

I'm glad you didn't off yourself - "he isn't worth that expenditure" - or whatever you would call it

Repeating - said here many times - the pain inflicted by a cheating spouse is only exceeded by the pain of the death of a child"

I have a step-daughter - who had that happen - 3rd offspring got into drugs - high one night wandered into major traffic corridor and got nailed good. He didn't suffer long -

that was about 13 years ago - she still suffers from his demise - blames herself some for "not raising him right" - ???
WTF? Only vice she has/had is cigarettes.

Drugs, affairs, and suicide can all be reality/pain avoidance strategies. I can agree to that. Drugs and affairs can also just be hedonistic gorging where suicide isn't an option.

My ex's problem wasn't that he hated himself; it's that he valued himself so highly that he thought he was entitled to do whatever he wanted. Based on my experience, and the experiences of many others on SI, he is more the norm than the exception.

I agree it’s not true in all affairs. Dr. Frank Pittman’s work was surrounding romantic infidelity. (He was one of the sources that stated people who have (romantic) affairs are just people not ready for suicide)

Romantic infidelity has specific characteristics, including limerence. But Dr. Pittman’s work showed strong results that ws who commit romantic infidelity are most often avoidant people who crave connection and are oblivious that they are the ones who stand in the way of it.

I don’t think it requires a mental illness to have suicidal thoughts. He describes the level of loneliness a person has who stands in their own way in connecting with people “but not ready for suicide” will have affairs. They blame the lack of connection on everyone else because they are unable to see it’s their own tendencies that are in the way. They are afraid to be on their own so they make no moves towards terminating their current relationship.

In an affair they become obsessive, desperate, it’s often with someone inappropriate that they would never date under normal circumstances because they feel they have the upper hand. It’s an act of self adulation because the ws is incapable of a healthy connection.

I would not say that these characteristics exist in a small percentage of affairs. It’s far less rare than you think, or there wouldn’t be so many books and podcasts about this specific type of infidelity. I have read numerous ones and barely scratched the surface of the content available.

As far as people who value themselves so highly they do whatever they want…sometimes those people are actually the most insecure people. They don’t have the wholesome underpinning that actually deep down makes them truly love themselves. Instead what they lack they look only for other people to fill. Nothing is ever enough because of the void that is their foundation.

People like me act out in the opposite manner but have the same problem. We over give but it’s for the same reason. To fill the void in our foundation we people please to earn love or to present ourselves in a way that we they will find more acceptable. Different symptoms for the same problem.

Some percentage of cheaters have narcissistic personality disorder, which is a completely different situation. And others have sex addiction. And there re lots of other circumstances. So clearly not all. Some people dabble and don’t have limerence.

His work was a lightbulb for me because it was the first time I understood that my reactions in the affair were highly documented human patterns rather than the AP being some sort of soul mate He described my mentality and helped me understand why I held so many conflicting ideas at once.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:21 AM, Thursday, February 15th]

@hikingout,

I feel like your post above described my exWS to a T. I learned as I worked through my own healing, that my former WS was deeply lonely, to this day hates being alone, had lots of suicidal ideation prior to and during the affairs and then attempted twice in the aftermath of DDay, and I was able to see her sheer loss of connection to her own self and how that hindered her from connection with others, and fed that loneliness and fear of being alone and depression and so many things she still struggles with. It’s sad…I learned to have compassion for her through this process. I hope she finds peace one day.

Hurt people, hurt people.

Maise- long time no see! I hope you are well! I remember her, and I agree. I too hope she finds peace. You are compassionate, and I remember your support being helpful to me in my quest to find my own self compassion and understanding. Some of your pms were lightbulb moments for me, you gave me a lot of insight into my husband and hope for myself. Take care!

HikingOut, like many BSs here on SI, I've read enough books and listened to enough podcasts where I could probably qualify for a PhD of the subject of infidelity. I could also bore you to death with an entire dissertation on why I disagree with many of Dr. Pittman's theories about infidelity. Quite often, I think about what I could've achieved with all the time, energy, and research I did in an effort to try to better understand and try get through to my ex.

On this point:

As far as people who value themselves so highly they do whatever they want…sometimes those people are actually the most insecure people. They don’t have the wholesome underpinning that actually deep down makes them truly love themselves. Instead what they lack they look only for other people to fill. Nothing is ever enough because of the void that is their foundation.

Ah yes... I was desperate to find that deeply wounded little boy that I was sure was hidden beneath all that self-assured bravado. But with some people (again not all, but with many) that deep well of loneliness and sadness just isn't there.

Maybe some people choose affairs as an escape from pain or to fill a void (and maybe that is the case with Howcthappen's husband), but there are some who do it because they have no capacity to appreciate how their actions impact others, and might even get off on the idea of getting away with something. Just to highlight a line from the original OP:

Like literally, it was really about them, not your marriage, not you- it was about their life and them wanting to end it as it was.

My ex didn't want to end his life as it was; he was very comfortable and satisfied with his situation: loving and dutiful wife appliance at home, romances with others on the side. I'm not acclaimed "expert" like Dr. Pittman, but I think there's ample empirical and anecdotal evidence to support the idea that most cheaters have more in common with my ex than an empathetic, self-aware, and insightful person such as yourself.