SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maybe some people choose affairs as an escape from pain or to fill a void (and maybe that is the case with Howcthappen's husband), but there are some who do it because they have no capacity to appreciate how their actions impact others, and might even get off on the idea of getting away with something. Just to highlight a line from the original OP:

Oh definitely. Please understand I wasn’t saying that your ex was this. I don’t know your ex. I think some percentage of selfish waywards fall into this category.

I think there are lots of cake eaters that just expect you to put up with it. There is never any empathy to be found. I think the ap in my situation was like that. Serial cheater just out to do whatever feels good at the time. No real impulse control.

I have read more females fall into limerence and it’s a less percentage of men. I have also read that females cheat more for exit, males cheat more often for cake eating. But there are many, who used to come here that were exactly like me. I still hear from some of them in my pm, though it’s been a while because I have long stretches of absence. I think it’s safe to say cheating comes in all colors of the rainbow. But I don’t think I am as rare as you think.

Also I didn’t mean to imply you didn’t study infidelity, or are a fellow PhD in it. I reinforced Dr. Pittman (and many experts shared that sentiment but not some of his other commentary), because you said it sounded like something a ws would use, when there are many “experts” who say this. I remember Pittman specifically because his was the first book I read about limerence, but I also read contrary info too. It just happens that what he described resonates so deeply for me that it got me on the path of self discovery. I do think that if it weren’t for my kids I probably would’ve been leaning more towards suicide as a form of escape. Instead I escaped into an alternate version of reality in which none of my real life existed or mattered. For that reason I will never dismiss that as true for many other ws.

If we believe half of marriages are effected by infidelity, and we know many would never reveal theirs to be one of them, then I think that we can safely assume that in this century alone millions were like your ex, and millions are like me. I think it’s fair to say we can’t dismiss either out of antidotal experience. This site skews us to some degree because people taper off and we have no idea how things landed. But one thing we can agree on is most ws, even myself come here initially presenting much like your ex.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:51 PM, Thursday, February 15th]

I think there's ample empirical and anecdotal evidence to support the idea that most cheaters have more in common with my ex than an empathetic, self-aware, and insightful person such as yourself.

Agreed.

I guess I will agree to disagree about being a rare bird. There are hundreds of bs that come to this site, who have claimed they feel reconciled and that their ws is a model ws. I would call my husband a model ws.

That’s not to say there aren’t just as many who have ws who are never going to get it, are good fakers, or don’t even bother to try anything at all. So I think where I can agree is we never know as strangers on a website which one they have. So some of us steer our posts towards whichever one we know in our lives. And I think to a certain extent we notice things that feed our own confirmation bias. ( on both sides of the fence)

I think that strikes a great balance. The poster will eventually be able to discern better by being able to hear all those perspectives.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:21 PM, Thursday, February 15th]

Maise- long time no see! I hope you are well! I remember her, and I agree. I too hope she finds peace. You are compassionate, and I remember your support being helpful to me in my quest to find my own self compassion and understanding. Some of your pms were lightbulb moments for me, you gave me a lot of insight into my husband and hope for myself. Take care!

Hola hola! I'm so glad to see that you and others I remember are still here offering your beautiful support. I'm doing pretty well! Thank you! I really hope you and your husband are well, too. Aw it brings me so much joy that I was able to do that for you, especially when I was so deeply in my own tornado of healing. Definitely the beauty to this site, as we heal together we can support and inspire and encourage and guide one another. I remember feeling like I had a buddy in my healing when I would read your posts. You help so many here, myself included. I deeply appreciate you! Hugs!

I could see the correlation because both are a pain avoidance strategy in many ways.

My WH was never an emotional person or rather never talked about it, so it was actually quite shocking to have him sit there after and tell me that he was in so much pain and didn't know how to handle things and thought it could possibly make him feel better if he felt like someone wanted him. He expressed feeling like he wanted to die every day during that time.

I can see the OP point.

I had 2 friends that committed suicide.

One planned it to the smallest detail. Life Insurance-suicide clause lapsed the week before. The child’s birthday was the week before. A detailed note to wife in who to contact about what, what they had and where. Much like a WS who plans stolen moments with a lover.

The other friend was having an argument with his wife (over an A he had), and he went and got a gun to off himself. Just like that. He was an alcoholic who had fallen off the wagon. He was on a self destructive binge-gambling, drinking, having an A-the downward spiral continued into his suicide.

So yes, I can see it.

Also, can I put in the plug-suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If anyone is thinking of suicide, please call suicide hotline. In both instances above, the trauma and mess left behind was horrible for the survivors to go through.

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 12:30 PM, Tuesday, February 20th]

I shared this thread with my fWW last night. We don't talk much about her infidelity anymore. After over 8 years, our marriage has moved to a different, better place. But reading this brought up loads of memories of when our R made a turn and she opened up. I never knew how often she had contemplated suicide. I did not know how she cried in the shower so no one could hear her. I did not know of her deep loneliness and emptiness. She did not recognize that she was the person that stood in her way of making deeper and more meaningful relationships. Especially with me. She now recognizes that we both could have avoided so much deep pain and trauma if she had the skills to ask for help. She also opened up about this with IC and MC, and it was not to make an excuse or to make me feel sorry for her. Our MC nearly had to drag it out of her.

What a journey. I think that it took me finding out about her infidelity and staying anyway for her to understand that she could trust me. She never trusted anyone, which is a very lonely place. She never felt like she was worth enough to have someone care so deeply for her, that they could or would stick around to help her figure out what the void was she was trying to fill. I understand now that she did not have the language to tell me what she was feeling or that her whole identity was deep shame. On the outside she looked so "with it". She is a professional woman in science, with a great title working for a great company, making a great living. Still she felt everyone would be better off without her because at her core, she was fatally flawed. A big part of our journey too, was me getting past my image of the woman I thought I knew, to understanding her more deeply as she let me in. First, I had to fight past the trauma of being betrayed, and getting to a place where I could be open to her needs.

I think her feeling of being fatally flawed was what made escaping into limerence a viable alternative to suicide. She knew suicide was permanent, and her escapes into fantasy in an A were not. It seemed a better alternative. I think now she recognizes that a better alternative would have been to dig into self discovery and healing.