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Newest Member: CrazyLikeAFox

Wayward Side :
Reality check

Topic is Sleeping.
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 6:49 AM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Hi!

Sometimes when I come back to read, it’s a reality check. Sometimes these posts are so helpful.

Right now I’m full of resent. I’m frustrated. I’m paranoid. I’m trying to shut off the snarky comments running out of my mouth or going through my head.

I came here to post about how my husband wont use social media next to me and how he calls me a child when I look at him while he’s on his phone. He won’t leave his phone unattended, even to take a shower. I am paranoid and I’m afraid. I’m not allowed any reassurance because of what I’ve done to him.

Anyways, I originally came to vent how I’m full of resent that I am still not allowed to have social media. No discussion, no reasoning, no negotiation or boundary setting, no talk whatsoever about it.

Then I start reading here again and I’m reminded again of what my husband has gone through by me. He doesn’t ever want to talk about my cheating or lying. He goes in full silent mode when he’s upset and I’m not supposed to talk to him. Now, I barely bring it up. He just doesn’t want to talk about it and pushing him just makes it worse.

Anyways, when I come back here it helps refresh what is most important. These small things are nothing compared to the big lies and betrayals I’ve brought into our lives.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8801180
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 3:24 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Maybe ask yourself why it is you want to use social media. Is it to escape? Is it to turn your brain off? Is it to connect to others?

Take the motivation to use your social media and turn it into something for improving your healing. Read a book, journal, etc. Look for activities that improve your overall well being.

Your husband will need to heal on his own time. You can’t push him. You can however, make sure he knows that you are working on yourself and available for him at any given time when he needs you.

If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 16623   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Anywhere and everywhere
id 8801261
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 4:17 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Thank you. Sometimes I do try to channel this into other positive things like yoga, reading, or journaling. I need to do a better job of reflecting and taking better care of myself. Usually I’m at peace with not having it. It’s when I reach a road block like wanting to join a female only group to make friends is when I get bothered. Or when I feel alone and left out and just want to make new friends. I don’t want to keep focusing on what he does or doesn’t do or might be doing. It’s not healthy.

[This message edited by kccalifornia at 4:23 PM, Friday, July 28th]

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8801292
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 4:51 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Kcc,

Yea you are in a tough spot if your BH never wants to talk about it, he's just a bomb building up pressure.

But then again there is no timeline for recovery or when the pressure vessel will crack.

Does he have anyone to confide or even talk to about your affair?

Did you offer to answer any of his questions completely and truthfully?

Did you offer to take a polygraph or write out a timeline?

He could be waiting for you to do these things without him having to prompt you.

posts: 1462   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8801328
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 5:50 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

R takes effort from both parties, not just the WS. He's not doing his part. A BS can't just do whatever the heck they want, be nasty and abusive, call the WS names, and have secrets of their own. That's not healthy and you don't have to accept that.

He won’t leave his phone unattended, even to take a shower. I am paranoid and I’m afraid.

I would be too. This is a big red flag.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 6:01 PM, Friday, July 28th]

Love needs action.
Trust needs proof.
Sorry needs change.

posts: 1180   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8801364
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 6:57 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Gently, do you have any agreement about R? Do you have requirements that you have to meet? Are there requirements he has to meet?

It looks like you have to please him, but he doesn't have to do anything. That doesn't create a new M that serves both of you, IMO. It looks like your job is to take anything he throws or doesn't throw at you. That's servitude, not R.

It looks like he won't talk with you about your M, even though you're unhappy with his behavior and with the limits he's set. And - ' he calls me a child when I look at him while he’s on his phone. He won’t leave his phone unattended, even to take a shower. I am paranoid and I’m afraid. I’m not allowed any reassurance because of what I’ve done to him.' I'd be unhappy in that sort of M, too, whether I was a BS, WS, or no infidelity had occurred at all.

I don't see how you van improve your relationship unless he is willing to talk with you.

Unfortunately, you're the one who is unhappy. What are you doing to change from betrayer to good partner? What can you do to change the relationship? What are you willing to do?

I'm very sorry you have to deal with this. It IS a very difficult to solve problem.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29800   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8801387
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 12:52 AM on Saturday, July 29th, 2023

KCC,

It's also possible he is looking for divorce attorneys, places to live or counselors etc on his phone.

posts: 1462   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8801445
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 2:46 AM on Saturday, July 29th, 2023

BS can't just do whatever the heck they want, be nasty and abusive, call the WS names, and have secrets of their own. That's not healthy and you don't have to accept that

Except he does whatever he wants and Says whatever he wants and I just have to shut my mouth (Which is hard sometimes). Then I’m supposed to pretend like it never happened, take care of the bills, dog, responsible stuff, etc. I’ve tried to set some boundaries on things that bother me like "please shut off your phone or go in the living room because I’m trying to go to sleep" Or "that hurts my feelings". It doesn’t matter.


Does he have anyone to confide or even talk to about your affair?
Did you offer to answer any of his questions completely and truthfully?
Did you offer to take a polygraph or write out a timeline?
He could be waiting for you to do these things without him having to prompt you.

I’m not sure who he confides in. I know he’s talked to his mom about it. We both have. He still refuses individual therapy or couples therapy. I’ve offered to take a polygraph a few times. He thinks that it’s ridiculous. I’ve written him detailed timelines. I’ve tried to discuss the timelines. I have attempted to bring it up a few times but it never ends in a discussion. It ends in either being told to stop talking or one sided talking by him and then no real chance to respond in discussion. He controls the mood and flow of the relationship.

I’m trying to hold on to the good. And we do have spurts of good days. We finally can talk about the future some.

What are you doing to change from betrayer to good partner? What can you do to change the relationship? What are you willing to do?

These are tough questions. I’ve been in therapy. I’ve been working on letting go, reducing my anxiety of the unknown, getting better about boundaries in all relationships (solid boundaries around men at work, changing mindset to look at the positive in everything, stopped complaining as much to others about my relationship, and stopped comparing as much. I’m much more selective of who I am friends with. Stopped lying, stopped trying to hide bad things that I do, and letting myself be uncomfortable.

Basically, just trying to do better at the things I should have already been doing as a partner. I don’t know what else to do. I’m trying to build my own life that’s filled with positive and healthy influences. Im trying to detach and find happiness in healthier ways. Not by pleasing him or just doing everything he likes to do.

I’ve asked him many times what I could do to help and he says nothing or he’s not sure. My therapist feels he keeps pushing the bar higher and higher what will please him. One day it’s not being supportive enough, another it’s that I’m too controlling, another that I’m jealous, another that I’m not different enough in bed. I’m exhausted and trying not to be resentful. I feel like he just wants me to be a completely different person altogether. I’m trying to stay positive and keep working on being a better version of myself.


Anyways, thanks for letting me rant! Lol
I read advice on here and it refreshes my mindset and always helps push me to question things. I feel that sometimes I might have something continually bugging me but it’s not what I really need to focus on.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8801454
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 4:51 AM on Saturday, July 29th, 2023

@kccalifornia

I see you registered Nov, 22. Is that near Dday? If so, then it sounds as if you two are still in your first year. For what it's worth, for me, that first year was hell, full of ups and downs. The second year was worse, it was only downs. Like you, I was doing my best to become a better partner, going to therapy, reading book after book, became a regular on SI, did couples weekends, you name it. There were so many times that she'd look at me, and was disgusted by me, like I was made of slime. So just know that you are not alone in this.

(Just to be clear, my wife was not controlling and unwilling to talk like your husband is. In fact, she was the complete opposite and tried her hardest to help me heal from my own trauma so that I could get to a place where I could love myself. Unfortunately, while it did ultimately help me, it took its toll on her. I was a slow learner at this. It took me years to fully get myself out of "wayward thinking" and back to a healthier mindset.)

Post-infidelity sucks, and unfortunately for everyone involved, it's a direct outcome of our own actions, so it can feel kinda selfish to even complain, because often it feels like a jail sentence. As the others here have wisely said, that's not what R is about. But they also said that everyone heals at their own pace and in their own way. That's where things get tough. Every piece of advice that I could possibly offer you will begin with the words, "Talk to your spouse about...", however, if he's not willing or able to talk, then that path of healing is blocked for both of you for now. Only you can decide how long to tolerate his choices. My wife waited 3-4 painful years, but in the end, things are turning out better. We talk a lot more, we don't fight, we can talk about the affair easily now. It CAN get better. But it really does take a lot of time and effort (and courage and resilience) to R. More than that, it takes two people.

This leaves you with only one option then, which is to continue to work on yourself. You need to do this regardless of your spouse's choice to R or D (or no choice at all, which is a valid third option). You will need it either way. If your spouse chooses to stay and work on the marriage, then you will need to become a safer partner in order for R to even have a chance to occur. And if he leaves, then you will need the skills and fortitude to move forward on your own, on a new path, and if that path is to be a happier one, then you need to start with a happier, more capable you. Bulcy was talking about starting an "accountability group", you might want to discuss that?

One last thing. Like the others, I am a little concerned about his vigilance over his phone. I get the social media fear and why he doesn't want you there. And I understand that from his viewpoint, he wasn't the one that did the awful thing, so why should he share his messages when you hid yours from him? That's understandable. But it's not R material. As unfair and shitty as it is, BS's have to take steps and make efforts to heal themselves, just as much as the WS does. They experienced a trauma of massive proportions and it destroyed their sense of trust, of love, of reality even. First, they wonder who the hell YOU are for doing this to them, then they wonder who the hell THEY are for not seeing the signs, for allowing this to happen, and so on. He can't just do nothing and hope it will go away. It usually doesn't. And it leaves the wound open to fester.

I think you need to define some level of detachment in order to protect yourself. Talk to your IC about this, and the BS's on this site could actually tell you a LOT about it. The idea is to enable you to support him, but not go down his rabbit hole with him in the process. It's like sending a check to Sara Mclachlan to save a shelter animal. You care, you offer support (but no more than you are capable of), but that's it. You don't go to the shelter and raise the dog there.

Good luck. Find a safe group of friends and a hobby you can do that doesn't trigger your spouse, and work on you for a while. Hopefully, when he sees you improving, it might inspire him to do the same.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1434   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8801460
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 7:55 PM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Stellar advice from DaddyDom, as usual.

I think you need to define some level of detachment in order to protect yourself. Talk to your IC about this, and the BS's on this site could actually tell you a LOT about it. The idea is to enable you to support him, but not go down his rabbit hole with him in the process.

It's been almost four years since DDay and he's not willing to work with you to heal the marriage - or even to heal himself, so I think it's time to focus your energies on being the best version of yourself and internally work on rejecting his assessment of you as the bad wife who is deserving of his scorn and abuse.

A tool that BSs use to detach is the 180 and I think it would work well for you, too. Be sure to check out the link in the beginning of the article, too.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

He'll feel the shift and he'll either get on board or you will outgrow him enough to leave. The status quo is untenable. You both deserve to be happy, and clearly, neither of you are in a good place.

What do you think keeps him in the marriage?

Love needs action.
Trust needs proof.
Sorry needs change.

posts: 1180   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8801716
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macleod ( new member #83474) posted at 12:51 AM on Tuesday, August 1st, 2023

marriage counseling? this has been going on for years with no improvement? what you did was wrong, yes. but it sounds like you tried to improve and are doing so. you do not need to be emotionally abused by him.
best wishes to you both.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2023   ·   location: OR
id 8801745
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 5:41 PM on Tuesday, August 1st, 2023

kc,

I remember when you first started posting and it is clear that while you as a WW have inflicted a lot of pain and suffering on your BH that he does not seem the least bit interested in your relationship. I mena, look, what you've described over and over again is a pretty miserable marriage, one where he seems to have had a lot of control over the years. In all reality, I'm not sure what there is left to save or why you would want to save it, since your BH is not showing much of any interesting in your relationship.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 665   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8801808
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 7:02 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

Thanks everyone for the advice. I need to focus on myself. I will try to implement the 180 for some form of detachment. It's our 6 year marriage anniversary this weekend and he has not talked to me in a few days. I am completely ignored and invisible...Just stopped, no fights, no arguments, no talking about what led to it, nothing. So I'm just trying my best to leave him alone and continue on with my day. I'm here if he does want to talk but I'm not going to chase him around trying get him to talk to me or notice me, or sulk around anymore. What I have been doing before obviously doesn't help.

I know what I did was extremely painful and I've hurt him a lot. I've done so many things I'm not proud of...but I want to grow from this and I want to figure things out in a healthier way. Not talking or communicating is toxic. So if he doesn't want to communicate/can't communicate, how am I supposed to help? This is out of my control and as much as I feel like a jerk not talking to him or coming to him, I know it'll just make it worse. So I'll give him what he wants.. peace and to be alone (with his phone).

I will probably still buy him an anniversary gift and a card because I care and want him to feel thought of.. but I don't expect anything special. I asked him what he wanted to do about it.. want to do something or not treat the day like anything special.. he said he didn't know. To me, not talking to me, shows he is really hurt, triggered, mad, and/or has some strong feelings over what I have done. He's still affected but he doesn't want to talk to me about it. This is hard for me to deal with because I want to make him happy and I can't.

Either way, I need to keep focusing on what is healthy for me and what can I continue to do be a safer partner.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8803301
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 8:07 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

I will try to implement the 180 for some form of detachment.

I will probably still buy him an anniversary gift and a card because I care and want him to feel thought of...

#8 on the 180 list of behaviors: Don't buy or give gifts. Wanting him to "feel thought of" is not doing the 180. He's thinking so little of you that he's treating you like you're invisible. He's being an emotional terrorist and you can decide whether you want to play his little game or detach from it. I think the more he gets a payoff from acting this way, the more likely he is to continue doing it. I could see this behavior if it had been a month or two since DDay, though I'd still think it was immature and crappy, but four years out? No. He's acting like a little bitch.

Here's the link again:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

Click the link in the top of that article and read it a few times.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 8:45 PM, Friday, August 4th]

Love needs action.
Trust needs proof.
Sorry needs change.

posts: 1180   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8803310
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ThisIsSoLonely ( Guide #64418) posted at 9:17 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

Hi - BS here, and without knowing your story forgive me if I say something obvious or not fitting for your situation. You said this:

Except he does whatever he wants and Says whatever he wants and I just have to shut my mouth (Which is hard sometimes). Then I’m supposed to pretend like it never happened, take care of the bills, dog, responsible stuff, etc. I’ve tried to set some boundaries on things that bother me like "please shut off your phone or go in the living room because I’m trying to go to sleep" Or "that hurts my feelings". It doesn’t matter.

This sounds like marriage counseling material to me. Your post comes on the same day I was posting about relationships being a give and take - always - and if I as a BS want to pursue R, I have to accept that there are things I will need to address, and work through, to proceed as a couple. The A is one of those things I have to process. The treating my partner with the respect I wish to receive is another if I wish to continue to have a relationship with him.

My WH really f-ed up. Double betrayal with the wife of one of his former best friends AND he worked with both of them (yep, WH, AP, and OBS all worked together at least several days per week and - gulp - still do), 1 year of false R/underground A post discovery, and 2 months more false R post second discovery. In other words, if I let it rip I could berate him until the end of time as he's given me a lifetime worth of material in those 2-3 years. I could tell him not to do this, and not to do that, and act like a total asshole and theoretically, if we're playing tit for tat here, feel completely justified. But...That's not a relationship, that's a dictatorship. That's being a jailor, a warden, a king. Most people on the other side of that are not cool with living like that for long, even if they made the worst of decisions and caused so much pain. At some point the WS becomes a punching bag...there is no reason to proceed.

Point being, if I wanted a relationship with my WH then as a BS I have to control myself and hold myself accountable at this point. I don't get to just attack my WH about the A for eternity. I don't get to rub his nose in it without some decent reason under the guise of R - generally there has to be some end result that is good for us or for me, aside from vindictive punishment, when I talk about the A 3+ years out.

I know that timing is an issue, and I know that after the 3 month mark, most of that rage and vindictiveness was done for me, but not for others. I also don't know the OP's timeline so if you are even less than a year out, I don't see much issue with how your BS is reacting. If you are 3+ years and you are being stonewalled, then I think you all need some help breaking those walls down as a marriage can't survive like that forever - not at least if you want it to thrive.

You are the only person you are guaranteed to spend the rest of your life with. Act accordingly.

Constantly editing posts: usually due to sticky keys on my laptop or additional thoughts

posts: 2301   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2018
id 8803320
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 10:57 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

I'm not sure how I feel about not getting him anything as an anniversary gift. Otherwise, sure, no gift giving makes sense.

We are a little over 3 years from dday, granted I have not made it easy on him and have had other hiccups since then... but it's been 3 year since DDay and 5 years since the affair. I can imagine a reminder of the day we committed to the vows is a huge reminder of all the vows I did not keep. But I'm just speculating since were not actually talking nor can we talk without it becoming a bigger fight.

As far as marriage counseling, he won't do it. I've mentioned it many times in the last 3 years. I can keep trying but I have little doubt. He won't even consider IC for himself. I'm not sure if he thinks that with time this will all go away, but I don't think it'll work that way. I am a conflict avoider and conflict makes me very uncomfortable. I'm not good at conflict, arguing, or having a different opinion.. but I know we need to deal with this either way. It's just not going to go away.

I don't know how to break the stonewalling cycle except I'm going to try to practice the 180 method. I want to be open if he does want to talk but I'm not going to chase him around anymore begging or whining for him to talk to me about what's going on.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8803334
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Stillconfused2022 ( member #82457) posted at 11:58 PM on Friday, August 4th, 2023

I checked for a stop sign so i think it is okay to comment…

DaddyDom’s example about a shelter pet is very interesting to me for one reason…

Most BS think that to some degree their spouses seem to lack empathy. That seems to be one of our biggest sources of angst and frustration. It is certainly for me.

There is a video teaching people to understand empathy. It is from Brene Brown who is one of the best therapists on the subject. You can google Brene Brown empathy video. There is a sad fox in a pit. The unempathic moose yells down from outside the pit to the fox and says hey fox, sucks for you that you are in that pit. But the empathic bear climbs a ladder down into the pit and sits with the fox and says kind and caring words. He spends time in front of the fox trying to contemplate what it must be like to be the fox. I would assume the bear doesn’t stay there forever, how long he stays is not clear in the video.

But kccalifornia’s example of sending the check to the shelter sounds a bit like the unempathic moose to me. The WS does not need to raise the shelter pet from scratch (and yes we are mixing metaphors here). But sometimes I expect my WS to get in the pit and really experience what it is like to go through the devastation of betrayal by your supposed life love and empathize and comfort. The BS feels like they are doing a million hours of work on themselves and when the WS begrudges them the hour needed to get in the pit and commiserate sometimes it can really hurt. It can cause the BS to go down the thought loop of « my WS wasn’t empathic to begin with and that is why they cheated…and now they think sending me a check and telling me to heal on my own is enough. I am doing my million hours because of their choices. Why can’t they get in the pit with me for one hour and demonstrate their support… »

Anyway, just a thought…

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 1:41 AM, Saturday, August 5th]

posts: 354   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8803342
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 9:54 PM on Saturday, August 5th, 2023

Sooo... How about a donation to an animal shelter for an anniversary gift? Or to a charity related to something he cares about? I think it sort of respects his desire for distance while also acknowledging the day.

Love needs action.
Trust needs proof.
Sorry needs change.

posts: 1180   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8803437
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Stillconfused2022 ( member #82457) posted at 3:15 AM on Sunday, August 6th, 2023

I would like to apologize for my post. I think I completely missed the purpose of the OP as well as Daddydom. Sometimes i get lost in the fog of this pain when the recovery is not going well. I end up lacking the very empathy I have accused the WS of lacking. I tried to delete it but apparently that is against the rules. I will give some thought to what it was about the comments that triggered my ungenerous post. In any case I offer my apology and wish the OP well in his recovery

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 3:16 AM, Sunday, August 6th]

posts: 354   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Northeast
id 8803451
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 5:24 PM on Sunday, August 6th, 2023

I would like to apologize for my post.


Thank you, however, no offense was taken, at least from my end. Everyone here has a valid point of view based on their own experiences, and you can hardly be blamed for being triggered. You've been traumatized in the worst possible way. It's okay to be pissed off about that sometimes. Best to you...

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1434   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8803476
Topic is Sleeping.
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