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Newest Member: cobblerock

Wayward Side :
Reality check

Topic is Sleeping.
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 6:39 PM on Saturday, August 12th, 2023

I keep writing responses and erasing them. This forum has been a huge help on keeping me focused on what's actually important when I lose track. I find that it's easy to get lost in the good days so when the bad days come it's really really hard. I'd love to be "in the pit" with him if he'd let me but I'm not. I'm ignored and "stonewalled". I think I'm getting the full definition of stonewalling: completely ignored despite attempts to communicate, refuses to sleep in bed with me, ignores my text messages. I can hear him have full phone conversations just fine but won't answer a simple question from me. He will eat the dinner I make and watch tv with me but will not sleep next to me. I'm finding this hard to deal with since I've read Gottman... So now I'm trying my best to figure out how to cope with being stonewalled.

I keep ruminating on what I may have said that pushed him back into his cave. Maybe I shouldn't have said this or done that. Maybe I should have just left this alone. He says that nothing has changed and maybe for somethings that's right. Though I may not be lying, cheating, or hiding anything anymore, I still am emotionally reactive to him and the way he treats me. That is something I need to get under control because it doesn't help anything. I still do things that annoy him or haven't done things he's asked. So for now, I'm trying to focus on what's going on with me and giving him the space that he obviously wants.

Part of me thinks he's doing it to punish me but isn't that wayward style thinking? The other part of me knows that I hurt him over and over and he's just really sick of me. I’m trying to sit through all this. I feel terrible and I wish he would just communicate with me what he’s going through so he’s not alone. But I’m not entitled to know. It’s his choice and I need to let go of the outcome.

He leaves for a work trip later this week and I hope he talks to me before then. Anyways, I'm going to keep journaling and keep trying to link things that may have contributed to all of this mess. Keep focusing on ways that I can keep making changes in my life for the better. Maybe I need a new therapist. I feel like I learn more on here than I have in the last few years of therapy.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8804230
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 7:32 PM on Saturday, August 12th, 2023

He's being an emotional terrorist

Really? This is how we label a BS just 3 years out because he doesn’t like to communicate, where he’s clearly still very hurt? The WS has admitted she’s had "slip ups". What are those?

OP, if this man is the devil others are making him out to be, why don’t you just initiate D?

posts: 384   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8804232
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 7:59 PM on Saturday, August 12th, 2023

I don't feel he is an emotional terrorist. I feel that he is definitely affected by the things I have done and this is his way of dealing with it. I may no like when he purposefully ignores me and I'm just trying to prevent things from getting worse.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8804237
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 1:55 AM on Sunday, August 13th, 2023

He's being an emotional terrorist

Really? This is how we label a BS just 3 years out because he doesn’t like to communicate, where he’s clearly still very hurt?

I stand by my assessment.

The term "emotional terrorist" is a made-up word, but it can describe an actual situation. If you’re in a relationship with someone who makes you feel like you have to walk on eggshells all the time, this person may be an emotional terrorist. The person may be unaware of their actions or even realize they’re doing them.

Emotional terrorism is a form of emotional abuse. It uses fear, guilt, and intimidation to control you. Emotional abuse can be verbal, psychological, and/or physical.

Emotional terrorists often use guilt trips to get what they want from others, and they manipulate people into doing whatever they want by making them feel guilty for not doing something for them.

he calls me a child when I look at him while he’s on his phone.

He won’t leave his phone unattended, even to take a shower.

Except he does whatever he wants and Says whatever he wants and I just have to shut my mouth

It ends in either being told to stop talking or one sided talking by him and then no real chance to respond in discussion. He controls the mood and flow of the relationship.

I’ve asked him many times what I could do to help and he says nothing or he’s not sure...One day it’s not being supportive enough, another it’s that I’m too controlling, another that I’m jealous, another that I’m not different enough in bed.

he has not talked to me in a few days. I am completely ignored and invisible...Just stopped, no fights, no arguments, no talking about what led to it, nothing.

As far as marriage counseling, he won't do it.

He won't even consider IC for himself.

I'm ignored and "stonewalled". I think I'm getting the full definition of stonewalling: completely ignored despite attempts to communicate, refuses to sleep in bed with me, ignores my text messages. I can hear him have full phone conversations just fine but won't answer a simple question from me.

Sure sounds like an emotional terrorist to me. I can see being this torqued up and unwilling to talk if it had been three weeks or even three months, but it's been three YEARS. He's taking advantage of kc's guilt to treat her poorly without consequences and kc would do well to detach from him.

The WS has admitted she’s had "slip ups". What are those?

kc, care to elaborate?

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 5:25 PM, Sunday, August 13th]

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1332   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8804261
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Trapped74 ( member #49696) posted at 10:29 PM on Monday, August 14th, 2023

I’m exhausted and trying not to be resentful. I feel like he just wants me to be a completely different person altogether.

He absolutely DOES want you to be someone different. He wants you to be a person who didn't betray him

We are a little over 3 years from dday, granted I have not made it easy on him and have had other hiccups since then... but it's been 3 year since DDay and 5 years since the affair.

So, "hiccups?" Like a cute, involuntary little inhalation of air? Or Trickle-truthing that basically lead to a second (or 3rd, or 15th) DDay in his mind and sucker-punched him again? When did you stop lying and get honest with him? THAT'S when you can maybe start the clock on recovery.

You're doing a pretty good job of reversing victim and offender in this thread. Perhaps you should do the kind thing and let him go. If he's so abusive, why are you staying? Sounds like infidelity is a deal-breaker for him.

Many DDays. Me (BW) 49 Him (WH) 52 Happily detached and compartmentalized.

posts: 335   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Oregon
id 8804405
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 2:39 AM on Tuesday, August 15th, 2023

WS heals WS. BS heals BS. Together they heal the M, if they both want to.

Every BS has a lot of work to do to heal. It doesn't look like kccal's BS understands that. He's stuck. I hope he gets unstuck - but he has to do the unsticking. No one else can do it for him.

He absolutely DOES want you to be someone different. He wants you to be a person who didn't betray him

If that's the case, he can't have that with kccal. He can have kccal, but not kccal who wasn't a WS. He can release himself from kccal and stay single. He can release himself from kccal and look for another partner (who may or may not be better than kccal). He can't change the fact that kccal cheated, however much he wants to.

That's all irrespective of what kccal is doing or has done.

BS heals BS. WS heals WS. That's how life works.

Life also works such that BS doesn't heal WS, and WS doesn't heal BS.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30040   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8804422
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 2:59 PM on Tuesday, August 15th, 2023

WS heals WS. BS heals BS. Together they heal the M, if they both want to.

Every BS has a lot of work to do to heal. It doesn't look like kccal's BS understands that. He's stuck. I hope he gets unstuck - but he has to do the unsticking. No one else can do it for him.

100% this.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1332   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8804462
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 kccalifornia (original poster new member #82360) posted at 6:18 PM on Tuesday, August 15th, 2023

Woah! The original point of this post was that I'm grateful to read on here because I can refresh my perspective. Not intending to bash my husband because he doesn't feel like communicating. I am frustrated because I want to work through things and he doesn't want to talk about it. I'm frustrated because I'm trying to figure out the best ways to cope and to grow from these situations that I put us in.

Of course I can understand that he want's a wife who didn't betray him. When I say that he wants a different person, I'm not referring to just changing the parts of me that make me dishonest or not loyal.

He's the victim in this situation and I most certainly don't want to make out that I am the victim. We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my decisions and choices. I am not trying to deny my responsibility in all of this. I'm sorry if I may have elaborated too much on things that bother me that are out of my control.

Thank you everyone for your advice and input. I will reflect upon it and apply what I can. I need to do a better job of not being so emotionally reactive and for respecting his wish of not wanting to communicate. Also, maybe instead of reaching out, I should do a better job of journaling. Also, keep trying to implement the 180 method during periods of the silence.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2022   ·   location: California
id 8804485
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 9:33 PM on Tuesday, August 15th, 2023

He's the victim of your infidelity, yes. But all victims must heal themselves, and it looks like he's not terribly interested in doing any healing, either of himself or of the marriage. It never seemed to me like you were trying to evade responsibility.

I'm sorry if I may have elaborated too much on things that bother me that are out of my control.

Why are you sorry? (Serious question.)

You didn't bash him. You just told us (what I assume is) the truth about his actions. If anything, I'm the one who bashed him. I think you're being mistreated and I'm angry on your behalf.

You're doing a pretty good job of reversing victim and offender in this thread.

I disagree. WSs can be victims of BS's behavior, too. Being the victim of infidelity is not license to act like an abusive ass.

Perhaps you should do the kind thing and let him go...Sounds like infidelity is a deal-breaker for him.

Perhaps he should own his shit and leave if infidelity is a deal-breaker for him.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 9:42 PM, Tuesday, August 15th]

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1332   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8804511
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 12:07 AM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

Perhaps he should own his shit and leave if infidelity is a deal-breaker for him.

Such compassion for a BS 🙄. OP, have you encouraged him to post here? Tell him he would get support and help him in his decision process.

posts: 384   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8804526
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 2:51 AM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

I AM a BS.

I have compassion for Mr kc’s pain. I don’t have patience for his mean, passive aggressive, unhealthy behavior. Everyone, BSs included, needs to own their own shit and take responsibility for their own behavior and their own healing.

Maybe I’m missing a puzzle piece and kc has been trickle truthing and sneaking around and lying, but that’s not the way this post reads so far. It reads like she’s trying and he's refusing to, and that he just wants to punish her.

Y’all go ahead and excuse shitty behavior just because he’s a BS. I ain’t gonna do it.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1332   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8804537
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OnTheOtherSideOfHell ( member #82983) posted at 3:02 AM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

As a FORMER betrayed spouse (it’s no longer a title I assign myself) I agree with the emotional terrorist comment. At some point, certainly by year 3 I think he should move ahead with an attempt at real reconciliation or divorce. If what you say is true, he is continuing to punish you which at this point, I think is abuse. We as betrayed spouses demand emotional growth in our cheaters, but too often choose to demoralize and punish them while they are implementing their growth and and improvement. At some point an even playing field has to be offered if reconciliation is to work. Perhaps your husband needs some growth himself. He needs to explore why he finds punishing you as more healing than working towards a healthy relationship or a divorce. As a betrayed spouse, I was guilty of this too, for about 8-12 months. It was my own mother who told me "you need to either commit to forgiving and improving your marriage or let him go and be the honest man he is learning to be". She was right.

posts: 205   ·   registered: Feb. 28th, 2023   ·   location: SW USA
id 8804539
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Trapped74 ( member #49696) posted at 8:21 PM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

Perhaps we could get some clarity from kccalifornia about the "hiccups" post DDay and how long they lasted.

And let's not forget one of the major tenants people repeat on this site: cheaters lie and minimize.

Why are we so quick to jump on kc's bandwagon when for all we know, her idea of a "hiccup" was reconnecting with AP again between DDay and now. Or lying for 2 years about "just one time and we used protection" or any other lie cheaters tell their BSes.

For all we know, the last shank (I mean, "hiccup") was delivered 6 months ago...

Many DDays. Me (BW) 49 Him (WH) 52 Happily detached and compartmentalized.

posts: 335   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Oregon
id 8804618
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 10:12 PM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

For all you people who think being cheated on entitles you to act like this for years and expect your spouse to keep eating your shit, good luck in your own marriages.

For anyone who is putting up with this stuff in your marriage, I feel sorry for you that you have such terribly low self esteem that you feel this is all you deserve from life. That refers to both BS and WS. Just as a BS shouldn’t accept the sort of marriage they have if their WS isn’t a candidate for reconciliation, not every BS is a candidate for R either!

Stop cooking the dinners and buying the presents and doing all the ass-kissing to make someone, who OBVIOUSLY doesn’t want you anymore, deign to continue to live with you just so they can keep (metaphorically) kicking you like the stray dog they obviously view you as.

PLEASE, have some damn respect for yourselves, ffs.

Married -> I cheated -> We divorced -> We remarried -> Had two kids -> Now we’re miserable again

Staying together for the kids

D-day 2010

posts: 6490   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8804628
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 10:15 PM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

Cheaters lie and minimize, but we have only what posters say about themselves here. If Kccal is lying, she's hurting her self.

Look at what she has written. Confronting her on internal inconsistencies in her posts may help her. Comments about WSes in general probably won't.

kccal did not make her H do much of anything, once she dumped him into the shit on d-day. At that point, HE became responsible for his own healing. From kccal's description, he's trying to make himself feel better by making kccal feel worse. That just doesn't work for him or for her.

As I say, I hope he finds a healthy way through this, but I don't know how to get him to do that. He's obviously not taking in feedback from kccal. She can get herself out of her sitch, but that maens issuing an ultimatum or just leaving. Kccal can't make him do anything, and she hasn't come up with what he needs to hear - but that's not on her.
Any 'shank' kccal shafted Mr kccal with is just another opportunity/requirement for him to heal himself. There's no shame in dumping her or staying. He gets to choose - and to re-choose. He has chosen to stay stuck. Mr kccal is in a tough sitch, but he's the only one who can get himself out of that.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30040   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8804629
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 11:02 PM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

There's no shame in dumping her or staying. He gets to choose - and to re-choose. He has chosen to stay stuck. Mr kccal is in a tough sitch, but he's the only one who can get himself out of that.

Very well said!

I will add, the same goes for kccal (or any other WS in a similar "marriage")—they, too, are choosing to remain like this. Every day they stay, they are re-choosing.

There comes a point where you are signing up for the abuse.

Married -> I cheated -> We divorced -> We remarried -> Had two kids -> Now we’re miserable again

Staying together for the kids

D-day 2010

posts: 6490   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8804637
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 11:21 PM on Wednesday, August 16th, 2023

I imagine it's extremely difficult to be the one who brought on the pain, and then decide that you're not going to tolerate the prolonged unhealthy responses to that pain. But that's exactly what I think needs to happen to break out of this untenable cycle.

Kccal, ideally, I think you need to tell Mr. kccal that you would very much like to reconcile, but that what's going on right now isn't working and that you should either start trying to improve things or start making plans to separate. Tolerating his unhealthy behavior isn't good for either one of you.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1332   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8804640
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 3:10 AM on Thursday, August 17th, 2023

It's easy for threads like this to flare up and get emotionally charged in no time.

--Mr. Kccal is stuck in a victim mentality, and won't help himself.

--Kccal put him there, and then has the audacity to complain??

--He said; she said; WE said........

Others here have said it---we have to heal ourselves. Sure, the other party can help, but no one can do it for us. There are all sorts of injustices that happen in the world and our lives, but it is how we respond to these that shows others(and ourselves) what we are(and are not) made of.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4357   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8804654
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pinkpggy ( member #61240) posted at 4:38 PM on Monday, August 21st, 2023

You are being abused mentally and emotionally. You are an adult and do not need to be continued to be punished by your spouse. His behavior towards you is abusive. You had an affair, you aren’t sub human because of it. He needs to get help and start moving forward or decide to leave. No one deserves to live like either of you are.

Happily Divorced

posts: 1916   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2017   ·   location: North Carolina
id 8805098
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SmelltheRoses ( new member #82404) posted at 4:22 PM on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023

I see a lot of "strong" women bashing guys while they are trying to deal with reality. Seriously, who cares about their opinions. As a bs who started out as a nice guy it is a series of cold cocked whammy punches that send you reeling. You are mad then mad at being mad, and your mommies voice keeps telling you to forgive and accept but part of you is saying f’ a of ‘em and I need to take care of me. It’s confusing and close to being insane. Some of us can never resolve it all. Doesn’t make us a bad guy and those that throw darts can take a long walk off a short peir.

Kk, your man may be completely f’up from what you did and may never come back. If you can’t take it, do him a favor and let him go.

posts: 13   ·   registered: Nov. 16th, 2022
id 8805188
Topic is Sleeping.
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