Topic is Sleeping.
Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 5:44 AM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
I’m sorry you are here. My only advice right now is to find a good therapist to support you thru this difficult time.
I send you thoughts of strength.
fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.
hcsv ( member #51813) posted at 5:02 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
If this were me, I would begin distancing myself from him and the situation. Not his first rodeo, but this time it imploded on him and therefore you and your family. I'd be done! Id be hiring a lawyer and filing.
Why should you support him emotionally and financially through this? He dug this hole, let him figure a way out.
After 40 years, ex turned into someone I didnt know and couldnt trust anymore. Divorced. 1/17
Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 6:36 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
She’s not "safe" by claiming victim status. If your husband can show it was consensual then she faces the risk of disciplinary action for false accusations.
What I think is clear though is that neither have much of a future career in the military.
What might be a possibility (and maybe the path of least professional destruction) might be to offer to resign – make the problem go away - but getting an honorable discharge.
Please Fold – you make him sound so innocent and such a victim… He knew the rules – he knew he was married, knew she was married, knew that infidelity is frowned upon in the military, knew that he was her superior officer (or at least above her in the chain-of-command)…
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus
Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 6:46 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
I remember reading on another similar forum a betrayed husband who convinced his cheating wife to prove that she loves her husband more by falsely accusing the AP of sexual assault. So that could be the case here.
I also remembered this really accomplished scientist ( almost Nobel prize winner) who had a consensual relationship with a junior faculty. The junior faculty got all the perks of being with an accomplished person but when he ended the relationship he got accused of misusing his power. He no longer can practice science while the woman at the center if this thrives in her career. That is why there are explicitly stated rules about work place relationships.
You probably feel guilty abandoning your husband in a situation like this. This is not similar to a health scare or a job loss caused by bad economy or a mental breakdown caused for no fault of his. This is a well informed , well thought , deliberate decision to cheat on you for a few hours of careless fun. There is no doubt that this would continue if not discovered early by the woman’s husband. So please set aside that guilt and protect your self and your children. It’s only fair that the legal battles should be fought by him alone, the mistakes were also made by him with no consideration to you.
Something tells me this (and the last tryst with the ex) is/are most likely not his only rodeo. He is a seasoned cheater. He now wants you on his team when things are tough because of his own doings. Let him handle his mess and you handle the mess he created for you and your children. Both of you need good individual therapists to navigate this painful time.
Irrespective of the outcome, you need to put yourself first. Assess if he is capable of the trust , faith and safety of your family unit.
I can only wish you lots of strength. Take it one day at a time. Lots of prayers and hugs to you.
HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:17 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
I don't think you should read too much into her coming over and speaking to the two of you,after this night in the hotel room. This was probably a full on affair. But, even if it was the one night, she probably came over to make him nervous. If this was sexual assault, she could have come over because it gave her some power over him.
He's 200% guilty. He chose to go to her room. He chose to kiss her. He chose to have sex. And,because he is in an authoritative position, she may not have felt she could say no.
He claims she started it,but that is a lie. It started the moment he went to her room.
You say it's not in his character. I say you don't know him as well as you think you do. You thought he had put in the work since the last time he cheated, but that's not true. Because a WS who has really put in the work, will never cheat again. He did what had to be done to keep you. He complied. His mask has now slipped. He's showing you who he is. It's time you believed him.
You want to think her husband made her say it was assault. That makes no sense,if it was truly a one time thing,as he's told you it was. Her husband had to have found messages,or emails. Something lead him to finding out. Or..your husband assaulted her..she told her husband..amd now he is getting his consequences.
He says he wants to do a polygraph. All ws say that. Otherwise it's clear they're lying.
What you do know without a doubt,is he is not a safe partner, and he's not a good father. A good father sets a good example. A good father doesn't risk his children's happiness, security, and family for a side piece.
You need to detach yourself from this person asap.
I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.
Fold123 (original poster member #83366) posted at 8:21 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
Appreciate the input.
The steps I can take now are meeting with an attorney to review my rights if we were to separate or divorce; signing a post-nup which he is fully on board with and which sets me up for more financial security as I am disadvantaged in that respect; each of us receiving counseling (we are in the process of getting initial appointments); and eventually getting into marriage counseling.
Logistically things are more difficult. We live on the East Coast of the country and have a two-year house lease both of our names are on. My life and our children’s lives (school, activities, friends) are based here. All of our possessions are here. We have pets here. And my family is on the West Coast. Could the kids and I go escape there? Probably. But my mom has a small condo and we wouldn’t fit easily, so I’d need my own place (which I’d want anyway), and then we’d be financially supporting two homes which will be a challenge. My PT work also includes some local in person work, so I can’t work remote from a distance if I want to keep my job. It doesn’t pay a lot but it is something of course. And I’d have zero help with the kids (my mom has health issues and can’t swoop in to be much of help physically).
For now I feel like my hands are tied. I can explore the legal options for myself and get the post nup done. We can begin therapy. And then we have to go from there.
Every situation is different of course but I can’t just take the kids and go across the country. Sometimes the advice "pack your bags and just go!" simply isn’t feasible. Not saying it’s not going to happen just that I can’t now.
HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 8:58 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
What exactly is he doing to become a safe partner? What is he doing differently this time,than he did last time?
No one is suggesting that separation is easy.
Right now,he's unsafe. He's been accused of sexual assault. He's playing the victim,when he is very much not. He's, once again,complying,willing to do whatever you want. Like he did last time.
He will cheat again,because he's proven that's who he is.
Schedule the polygraph immediately. You need to know how many other times he's cheater.
I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.
RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:01 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
I have experience in both the military and civilian sectors and, I can tell you that it is universally well known that subordinate-superior relationships are verboten. We have extensive annual training on this mandated by State and Federal agencies.
One of the many pitfalls to this sort of relationship dynamic is consent. It’s common for consent to be questioned, many times after the fact, if there was ANY type of coercion (direct, implied, indirect, quid pro quo) it can be considered consent under duress or referring to implicit or explicit attempts to make work conditions contingent upon sexual cooperation.
All this stuff is investigated by a state or Fed EEOC or MEO type agencies.
If this was a sexual assault, abuse, rape then a law enforcement agency will perform a criminal investigation. I’m surprised he hasn’t been contacted already, but I’m not sure when the complaint was reported.
All allegations of sexual assault known to the chain of command , regardless of severity, are fast tracked to specially trained members of the Military Criminal Investigation Oganization (MCIO).
It’s possible that he’s been accused of sexual harassment, not rape.
Anyone involved in these sorts of workplace activities in this day and age is a fool.
Employers are heavily mandated to investigate, make notifications and quickly act to protect the victim. They aggressively avoid under reaction as there are serious penalties for doing so and lean towards over reaction.
Your WH is going to be VERY, VERY preoccupied dealing with all this and will probably not be able to do the ideal-if any, heavy lifting required to fix himself and the marriage for quite some time.
Just something to consider.
[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:28 PM, Saturday, May 20th]
Fold123 (original poster member #83366) posted at 9:19 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
Yes. It is very complex and very much stacked against him. And the majority of time, thought and effort is focused on the legal aspects. We know that working on us is getting and going to get short shrift due to the severity of things. We are drowning and trying to manage the basics.
I am trying to focus on keeping my kids taken care of, getting my own legal and financial reviews, managing my work, and doing tons and tons of research on outcomes, what could happen, what I should do. I am completely overwhelmed and just trying to breathe.
Beachgirl73 ( member #74764) posted at 9:57 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
You have heard from many people and it’s understandable that you are overwhelmed with what you must deal with. I simply want to encourage you to take extra good care of yourself. Turn to friends and family and those here to get comfort whenever you can.
Sending a big hug. Everyone here is rooting for you. ❤️
Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 10:44 PM on Saturday, May 20th, 2023
I'm sorry that he has done this to you again. You deserve better.
You've experienced a serious emotional trauma. There's a natural tendency to try to cling to a comfortable reality even when it has been proven false. You don't believe that he is capable of a crime, but once upon a time you probably didn't believe that he was capable of infidelity. Don't rule anything out. He doesn't deserve that level of trust.
You said, "What’s worse, the other person confessed to her DH and has (we think) been coerced by him into reporting it was not consensual." What is the basis for this? Where did he hear that she confessed? Why would you share his belief (or lie) that OW's BH *coerced* her into claiming that it was not consensual? OW would have plenty of motive to claim that it was not consensual, to protect her career and her marriage. Why would your WH be deflecting blame from her if this was a simply a one time event with no emotional entanglements?
Bear in mind that WS confessions are relatively uncommon. Why do you believe that it was a confession and not a discovery? What's the basis for the BS coercing her? Did your WH speak with OW about it? Why confess weeks after the fact? Her continued engagement after the fact doesn't sound like the kind of deep, immediate remorse that generates confessions. It sounds more like a jilted lover looking for payback or someone who got caught trying to deflect blame.
Unless you are very familiar with the email system in question I would not put too much trust in what he showed you. Some systems allow messages to be visually deleted for housekeeping but never truly deleted from the system. Almost all of them allow messages to be moved around into different folders. Moreover, someone who knows that he's violating regulations has motivation to keep those communications out of that system.
I'm afraid that you are not seeing things clearly because the trauma you're going through has caused you to slip into this mode of being his ally, fighting to preserve this life that you have built together. That is not what is going on here. He has wrecked your life *again* and now he is gas lighting you into helping him fight to preserve *his* life. You can never get your old life back again.
Your WH is not innocent. He may not be guilty of sexual assault by force but he knew what he was doing was wrong on many, many levels and he did it anyway. Even if his story is completely true, if he had learned anything at all from his first experience with cheating, "come to my room" would have sent him running for the hills. He knew the moment that was posed that it was wrong for his marriage and wrong for his career. But he did it anyway.
I'm sorry, but I don't see any path where he can become a safe partner for you. I really think that you should move your focus from what he's going through to what you're going through. Protect yourself. Do what is right for you.
Me: 62, BS -- Her: 61, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled
The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 1:20 AM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
I am so sorry for you and your children.
My two cents is your H engaged in this very consensual affair and he thought he’d never get caught.
But he did b/c the affair partner is trying to cover her butt and is lying to her Husband to keep her marriage intact.
It’s easier to blame the AP than believe your spouse could possibly be a cheater 🤪
Please protect yourself.
You are not the only person to be a single parent and I can tell you in my community we all helped our friends who ended up being single no matter what the circumstances. Whether you stay where you are or you go west, you will get support.
I was very ready to walk out the door and be a single mom with teens. I felt my sanity was worth more than my marriage at that point. I just had faith it would all work out.
Have faith in yourself and know you are stronger than you think.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.
Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 2:43 AM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
Couples can recover from infidelity, but it’s not because they decide to do so – as a couple. Its more that the cheating partner – your husband – decides he’s doing wrong and wants to change. If you are willing to reconcile and if he’s willing to do the immense work of self-reflection and self-change then and only then does your marriage have a shot.
But… a KEY factor is that people reconcile from truth.
Like if your husband was having an ongoing affair with this woman… your marriage could reconcile from knowing that. But if you try to work on the marriage based on this having been a one-time fling initiated by the OW and your poor old innocent never-hurt-a-fly husband was tricked into partaking… it will only work if that’s the TRUTH.
Based solely on experience and what you share… It’s extremely rare that a WS confesses to more than necessary…
A polygraph has been suggested…
I would recommend you consider this. Tell your husband that you aren’t sure about the marriage, mainly because you don’t trust or believe him. You are willing to (for now) support that the infidelity was consensual, but you don’t believe it only was a one-time thing. Tell him that if he passes a polygraph test where you will ask him about how often they met for sex, if it was once etc you will at least believe he’s being honest on that aspect. Make it clear that it’s better for him to fess up NOW, because what failing a poly will tell you is that he’s still not being honest and doesn’t trust you with the truth.
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus
RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 3:07 AM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
And then there’s a question of timing. Do you wait until he is no longer the subject of an active sexual harassment or criminal investigation, or do you add another front to his lines of engagement? If you intend on seeking R, your grievances might have to wait a bit. If you’re set on divorce…
Viciouspink ( new member #74432) posted at 6:56 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
So sorry you’re going through this. It’s awful and now on top of infidelity, you have an assault accusation against your husband.
You sort of glossed over the fact that your husband had cheated before. There is almost a 0% chance that the two infidelities you know about are the only infidelities he committed.
Other than getting your ducks in a row, I would suggest emotionally detaching from him to protect yourself. Can you speak to your landlord about breaking the lease? Many landlords will allow you to if they can rent it out quickly again. If not, your husband should leave and find a place to stay on his own and allow you and your kids to stay in the house. He’s the one that cheated. He should bear the consequences.
Speaking of consequences, since he’s put himself into the victims chair, it sounds like he’s not getting any. Because of this situation, you’ve allowed yourself to champion for him and help him, rather than instilling consequences.
Your husband is not, nor has ever been a safe partner. What work is he doing to show you he is working on that? Look at actions, not words. His words are cheap it seems.
Fold123 (original poster member #83366) posted at 7:01 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
Thank you for replies.
Yes, he had immediately discussed taking a polygraph, both regarding the allegation it was non-consensual and to prove to me this was an isolated event. It doesn’t make it better, but it would let me know (within a range of accuracy) if he is being truthful about everything.
We have researched certified polygraph administrators in our area and he is calling tomorrow to schedule an appointment. I have drafted ten questions I want answered.
I told him that if there is more to the story I deserve to know it, if nothing else. And either he comes clean now or we see if it is reflected in the polygraph results. But if he is withholding information and is not being truthful then I will be done.
SackOfSorry ( member #83195) posted at 10:37 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
I think you're going to find that you will have to shave your poly questions down to 2-4 questions. I don't think they allow much more than that.
Me - BW
DDay - May 4, 2013
And nothing's quite as sure as change. (The Mamas and the Papas)
RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 10:45 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
Yes, he had immediately discussed taking a polygraph, both regarding the allegation it was non-consensual and to prove to me this was an isolated event.
I think you should consult his counsel representing him in the sexual harassment-assault case before going off on your own to arrange a poly to exonerate him on the non-consensual sex allegations. That is a completely different investigation that, if a poly is used-if it’s even admissible, will be carefully coordinated by your husband’s counsel and the investigative body. Unless you intend on using this poly for private personal use.
If so, I’d just stick to your burning questions, your personal line of investigation.
If the prosecution finds out the defendant’s own wife questioned whether there was consent and arranged for a polygraph to investigate that…that could be used against him to discredit if this goes to court.
[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:02 PM, Sunday, May 21st]
Fold123 (original poster member #83366) posted at 10:47 PM on Sunday, May 21st, 2023
I can certainly find answers to the information I’m looking for in 2 to 4 questions.
Stillconfused2022 ( member #82457) posted at 2:00 AM on Monday, May 22nd, 2023
You are in a very very unique situation as it sounds like you are well aware. You are forced to be much much more disciplined in your thinking than the average BS. It sounds like for now you have decided to support your spouse through this process. It is entirely your call, but if you adopt that approach it seems you need to be very deliberate about each step.
As a word of support I went through a few parallels to you My husband cheated with his subordinate. He said she kissed him first and on second time he reciprocated. Whether this was true or not could not be proven. But the subordinate was let go with severance. She later tried to rejoin the company and my husband had to get in front of his board and advocate to « re-fire » her which was agreed to. Part of me doubts she would have gone alone with all this without a lawsuit if my husband’s claim that she started it wasn’t true. But, I’ll never really know.
Back to you. I am so very sorry. I understand the shame of having your whole community know your marital business and not in a very flattering way.
There are two buckets
Bucket One - His legal issues
Bucket Two - your recovery
It sounds like for your family’s sake you are addressing Bucket One first. When you get to Bucket Two you can unleash holy hell on your husband and you probably should. But right now you need to stick to Bucket One (if that is what you chose). As far as Bucket one, I agree with the comment that it could be unfavorable to do the poly right now - confer with his lawyer and take their advice. When Bucket One is done you can make him do as many polys as you want.
It may be that you think you need the poly in order to decide if you even want to support him in his legal issues. That does sound reasonable from a marital standpoint so obviously you have to decide if you want to run the legal risk in order to figure out where you stand. Just because you support him through this incredibly stressful moment in your family’s history does not mean you have to stay with him when it is all over. Maybe you will choose that maybe you wont. He should be abundantly grateful that you are even willing to support him with Bucket One.
Other Women lie and Wayward spouses lie. It is an almost impossible task for you to figure out who the biggest liar here is. It sounds like you are going with your gut. What else can you do.
After 7 years I have never regretted giving my husband the benefit of the doubt on his secretary kissing him first. He absolutely lied and trickle truthed about a million things. But that piece of the story always remained the same. He has never cheated again to my knowledge and I do not have doubts about my choice to stay. I had to give it a shot for my kids. Whenever you need anything from him - anything at all - your husband had better support you. He has one chance not to screw up recovery. Stay strong and keep your wits about you.
Topic is Sleeping.