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Having a brutal day. My wife made a comment last night while we were watching a show, something that I know she could have only learned in her affair related hobby. I’ve been doing pretty well, but I just triggered HARD. Worst day I’ve had in months. Consider this shameless fishing for attention, just want to be heard and seen somewhere.

You are seen and heard, Ink! Did you say anything to her about it?

I also had a rough weekend, saw the WH for the first time since he confessed the affair 1.5 months ago.

Recovery certainly has its ups and downs.

I'm so sorry you are having a tough day and you too BOA. Ink, I hope you shared your feelings with your wife and she was able to respond in a way that was helpful to you.

Did you express how you were feeling to your wife? How did she react?

Crazy how physically exhausting it is to have an emotional spill over.

She immediately regretted it. It was an accidental slip, I know that. That hobby is just so emblematic of the whole thing and it’s so easy to hate because it’s POSOM’s world. To make thing work with her I need to reconcile many things that are now a part of her, but this stupid hobby, that I do not need to tolerate. That I feel entirely justified in banning from my world. But I didn’t know it would trigger me this much.
She apologized right away, last night, but I slept alone anyway. Woke up feeling terrible. She has listened to me and spent a lot of time with me, both of us crying a lot.
My only complaint continues to be choked off information. I said a lot of stuff being so emotional and she didn’t say much. She still doesn’t trust us to be able to talk about the big things without blowing up and wants to use MC for that. I admit we’ve agreed to that, but it’s frustratingly slow. We’ve started with some short contained times to talk about stuff and have started with some easier things. Some hard topics are coming, we’ll see how it goes.

My only complaint continues to be choked off information. I said a lot of stuff being so emotional and she didn’t say much. She still doesn’t trust us to be able to talk about the big things without blowing up and wants to use MC for that. I admit we’ve agreed to that, but it’s frustratingly slow. We’ve started with some short contained times to talk about stuff and have started with some easier things. Some hard topics are coming, we’ll see how it goes.

Bold emphasis mine.

Why is she dictating the terms of when and how you discuss her affair? Why are your needs being placed second to hers... again?

Inkhulk, you have been heard.

Unfortunately, triggers can come out of nowhere.

Sounds like you and your W are working it out .

I wish you well.

I understand that massive trigger from a "them" standpoint.

I'm doing rather well, all things considered, and there are still a couple things they did together -- just mundane hanging out things -- that haunt as much as any mind movie. It is rare now 6-7 years later, but it happens.

She still doesn’t trust us to be able to talk about the big things without blowing up and wants to use MC for that.

We had a world class MC, a guy in the biz for 35-years, who eventually told us, he had been betrayed in his M. And it didn't work out. It helped because he never made us any promises and showed us how hard the work was.

All that said, our "blow ups" sans MC were cathartic.

There were 3-4 of those and I don't regret any of them, because they were real, they showed the true nature of the damage done to me, and her reaction -- to hang in there and try to help me through those tough moments made me know she was all in.

My anger phase at about 18-months in was how I made it to the other side.

And I was angry because I was hurt to the very core of my soul.

Venting kept me sane.

I vented here....a lot.

I vented in IC.

Most importantly I vented to the person who hurt me, and she didn't shy away, she understood and listened to my pain.

All that said, our "blow ups" sans MC were cathartic.

There were 3-4 of those and I don't regret any of them, because they were real, they showed the true nature of the damage done to me, and her reaction -- to hang in there and try to help me through those tough moments made me know she was all in.

My anger phase at about 18-months in was how I made it to the other side.

And I was angry because I was hurt to the very core of my soul.

Venting kept me sane.

I vented here....a lot.

I vented in IC.

Most importantly I vented to the person who hurt me, and she didn't shy away, she understood and listened to my pain.

A complicating factor is that she is extremely sensitive to anger. She’s spent her entire life believing all expressions of anger are bad. It’s taken reading Gottman and some other psyc books to mentally understand that being able to express anger is important, and it’s important to listen to the anger of someone you’ve hurt. But I don’t think she’s there yet.

Probably need to try for a blow up or two in MC to see how that goes.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 10:51 PM, Monday, March 13th]

A complicating factor is that she is extremely sensitive to anger. She’s spent her entire life believing all expressions of anger are bad

How convenient!

How convenient!

Well, I can attest that this is pre-existing, not just something that happened to pop up post A to avoid processing. But it’s a big part of what made and makes me question whether we can make this work. I admittedly am compensating for this with patience and marinating on stuff longer than I’d like.

A complicating factor is that she is extremely sensitive to anger. She’s spent her entire life believing all expressions of anger are bad. It’s taken reading Gottman and some other psyc books to mentally understand that being able to express anger is important, and it’s important to listen to the anger of someone you’ve hurt. But I don’t think she’s there yet.

I think even Gottman is one of those who views anger as a secondary emotion - based on fear, pain or sadness.

In that sense, if she is actually reading some of that stuff, I think a number of WS point to anger from resentment as a justification. Has she looked at any of her potential anger? Just curious, based on the "all expressions of anger are bad" you mentioned.

Probably need to try for a blow up or two in MC to see how that goes.

And if you don’t have either a speed bag or a literal punching bag at a home gym or nearby gym — I would highly recommend that. As you noted, holding it in is NOT healthy.

I imagine most MC would disarm a healthy vent in session pretty quick — depending on how you show your anger in there.

Although, our MC blasted loud music into the waiting room, just in case sessions got a bit fired up inside.

Sorry you had a rough weekend Ink. Wish there were magic words to ease this for you and all of us.

I agree with Oldwounds about releasing anger too. It took me way too long (imo) to hit the true anger stage. I had moments here and there but the real anger showed up around the 2.5 years mark.

Releasing it feels like debriding a wound but without the pain. It's freeing.

Like a wound, the junk builds up again and repeat debriding is needed. Each time is less and less junk, less and less rage.

It really is a release of pain.

You might be holding back your own healing by stuffing it down.

It needn't be nasty or threatening. It is how you feel. It's legit. And it can help you heal which helps your marriage.

Again, why is she dictating the terms of when and how you discuss her affair? Why are your needs being placed second to hers again?

Why do you tiptoe around her preexisting psychological hangups and neuroses while she is free to completely ignore or procrastinate discussion about the trauma that she has caused you?

Maybe dictating terms, maybe just expressing her desires - and R, like M, has to serve both partners. For example, her sensitivity to anger could come from a history of abuse when someone powerful in her life, say, hit her when they got angry.

The thing is: BSes get angry. A WS who won't or can't hear the anger may not be a good candidate for R. My W had a big problem with anger; she thought I was angry at her all the time. ALL the time. Our MC confronted her on this a lot. W was taught to ask if I was angry and deal with the answer. I believe they worked on reframing her beliefs about anger in IS.

IMO, the problem with not addressing your W's anger issues, Ink, is that it may help your W avoid taking responsibility for cheating, and that has to kill R, or at least slow it down.

*****

Triggers always are surprises. As you heal, they'll be less frequent, which is good, but the shock may hurt a lot, which isn't. It's part of life. IMO, a trigger response is pain coming to the surface to be released, and that's good.

I will say that I initially spelled that last 'good' as 'giid', so ... even if one IS pain comeing to the surface to be released, they can be very difficult to deal with.

Again, why is she dictating the terms of when and how you discuss her affair? Why are your needs being placed second to hers again?

Why do you tiptoe around her preexisting psychological hangups and neuroses while she is free to completely ignore or procrastinate discussion about the trauma that she has caused you?

These are the right questions at the right time. Take what you need, leave the rest, but also sometimes people can only take in what they are ready to hear. I was ready to hear this today.
I am trying to pull off a balancing act, acknowledging both of our brokenness and leaving room for both of us to make progress. And she genuinely has a life long thing about anger. And now it is squarely in the way of what I need from her to stay in relationship. Something has to give here. Not trying to sound like an internet tough guy, but I’m pushing hard on this today. This blockage needs clearing.

You don't want to hear this I know. But you are aware that your WW did not shut down like this for her AP? Emotionally nor sexually.

I bring this up to snap you out of it--and by 'it' I mean your tendency to Rugswee...I mean be an apologist for your WW. You have largely (no, not always but largely) set this betrayal by your WW aside, and have instead (much of the time, not all of the time no but most of the time) taken the frame that your WW is this wounded bird and that it is on you to help your WW 'heal'.

Anger at your WW and how her so-called best just will not do, probably would serve you better though. My concern for you is what Bluer Than Blue said, that you are subjugating your own needs, because of your WW's own (perceived) limitations. Things hardly ever turn out well for people who are this self-sacrificing. Your WW may even end up RESENTING you for this, just as she resented you even before her affair for being 'too good for her' and making her too aware of her own shortcomings. Only this time even more so.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:07 PM, Tuesday, March 14th]

You don't want to hear this I know. But you are aware that your WW did not shut down like this for her AP? Emotionally nor sexually.

You don’t know whether she did or she didn’t. Obviously not completely, we know that. But there is no emotional risk from someone who only tells you how amazing you are. She did eventually block him out emotionally after a blow out fight.

Things hardly ever turn out well for people who are this self-sacrificing. Your WW may even end up RESENTING you for this

I am self-sacrificial. I’ve largely viewed that as a virtue over the course of my life. I have genuinely taken a joy and satisfaction in meeting others needs. I’ve driven the crappy car, skipped vacations, let friends and family live under my roof, I’ve been a dependable rock others have been able to count on. It is hard to temper that instinct in order to protect myself from being taken advantage of by the woman that I’ve loved for two decades. That feels like breaking of the self. So you’re right, I didn’t want to hear that. Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 10:10 PM, Tuesday, March 14th]

I need some help from you all: how much venting do you think is appropriate at your WS? We talk about other outlets (punching bag, a good friend, journaling), so I don’t expect that the answer is ALL OF IT! But I also don’t think the answer is none of it. What was helpful to you? What mistakes did you make?

I never found venting at my WW helpful. She would usually shut down and then I'd feel unheard and rejected and we were temporarily worse off for it.

We live in a neighborhood with a lot of walking trails. I would walk. A lot. And process. I can only imagine that my neighbors came to see me as a crazy man shouting at clouds.