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She thinks having you repeat some blather that you don’t mean, to someone that’s hurt you and continues to hurt you is going to do what ??? Good for you standing up for yourself. She definitely doesn’t understand infidelity trauma

You are one month out from finding out you had been in false since dday,and he had never gone NC with her.

It's way too soon for MC.

What consequences did he have for continuing the affair for the last 10 months?

Right. That's the thing that confuses me. When we started MC in October, I thought he had been NC for 7 months. We had both been in IC for 6 months, and both of our therapists agreed that it would be OK to begin MC together. But the truth bombs started dropping almost immediately after that because the MC encouraged WH to come clean on any secrets he was still keeping. It seemed like we weren't making any real progress, just dealing with each new reveal. It finally occurred to me after January's reveal that about the continued contact that perhaps we shouldn't even be in MC. I asked the MC point blank and she said, "I need to continue seeing you as a couple until a resolution is reached either way." So we kept seeing her and I kept feeling more and more like it wasn't the right thing to be doing. The most recent session was when I'd finally had enough and she said perhaps she's not the right MC for us.

In terms of consequences for WH, that's another thing that confused me. My IC keeps asking, "What real consequences has your husband had to deal with?" I mentioned this to the MC in one of our sessions. Her response: "Why do you need to give him consequences? You're not his mother." The advice has been conflicting on a lot of issues, but I actually respect and trust my IC so I will stick with her.

I mentioned this to the MC in one of our sessions. Her response: "Why do you need to give him consequences? You're not his mother."

That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve heard a counsellor say.

If I hypothetically punch my spouse in the face I’m not waiting for my mother to come and dish out consequences. I expect my spouse would take some sort of action and that would be my consequence.

If I kill someone I’m not expecting my mother to come and give me the consequences of my action (although she may decide to never speak to me again which would also be a consequence), I would most likely end up in prison.

Your MC doesn’t even seem to know the difference between punishment and consequences.

Everything we do and every decision we make in life has consequences, that is the result of our actions. You are fully entitled to show your WS what the consequences of his cheating are, such as in house separation for example or even divorce. That would be a consequence of his action and you don’t need to wait for his mother to give you permission to divorce.

Please drop this MC and drop MC altogether, your WS first needs to be on board the reconciliation train which at a minimum includes NC, honesty, transparency, accountability.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 12:33 PM, Sunday, February 26th]

Please drop this MC and drop MC altogether

The damage such MC can do extends to both persons in the relationship. The BS leaves feeling dismissed, disregarded, etc., but the WS goes away feeling somewhat validated in their wayward mindset (ask me how I know) and that just halts any relationship healing!

We talk about consequences as if they're magic. They are not. They come into play after a transgression; they don't reliably prevent new transgressions.

The 'consequences' that count are the ones that lead us to taking action to make our lives better. When infidelity hits, that means deciding what the BS's boundaries are and defending them. I'm convinced that BSes do better when they focus on what they do rather than on impacting their WS's behavior. JMO, of course.

IMO, the best that can be done by both BS and WS is to be oneself, to be authentic. You're doing that at least insofar as you insisted on being true to yourself rather than follow this MC's direction. I know the experience is pain added to pain, and I know the MC added insults to the injury she caused. I think you did some good stuff in not stifling yourself, especially when you were under so much pressure from this MC.

The MC's process may, in fact, be pretty good. At the same time, I don't understand why she hit you with it one month after a traumatic shock. Most of us are still in shock only a month out. I also don't understand how she isn't addressing your H's lies during false R. Cheaters lie during affairs; that's indisputable. Good candidates for R, however, don't continue to lie after d-day.

Besides, even if this MC's process is a good one, I don't understand how she could persist in it, given the way you responded. A good MC has to know that different people need different things. A good MC knows how to adjust.

The one good thing you've reported about her is her comment that 'perhaps' you and she shouldn't work together. That means, IMO, that she can't/won't adjust to you, so she can't help you. It doesn't matter if she implies or says that you're the problem - she admits that the problem in your MC is her.

If you want to help her, participate in the next session to give her your feedback. She may be too rigid to accept it, though, and you might do yourself a favor and use the MC time for yourself ... take a walk, do more intense exercise, read, watch a funny TV show or movie, take a nap, etc. Personally, my reco is to take the time for yourself. You owe her nothing.

You were already abused because of the cheating. Now a therapist bullies you and is in collusion with your CH. I am so glad you left. There are dangerous people in the "helping" community.

Remember NO is a complete sentence and you had every right to leave in the middle of a session. You probably stayed because you were told to be polite. To hell with that. Be your own advocate and make sure your WH GETS what was done to you in that office.

I said before that I'm not going to keep our appointment next week. I'm rethinking that. I'm going to discuss it with my IC tomorrow, but I think I might keep the appointment. If I don't express my feelings about her "process" and how it did nothing but cause me anxiety, perhaps she will get a better understanding of how she can affect people with her inflexibility and direct manner. Perhaps she'll just blow me off, but at least I will have said my peace.

I am disappointed to see you rethinking this. Cutting the MC out of your life was a great show of boundaries. It is not your job to fix her. You've suffered enough.

She said, "You know, I'm thinking I might not be the right therapist for you. You've been arguing with me for weeks. You aren't willing to just do what I ask.

She seems to be firing you. I have to ask why you would return to this kind of abuse? She doesn't want to work with you.

We have all begged you to ditch MC, but you've ignored every member's advice. To your own detriment. Can't you see we are trying to help you avoid the MC trap that so many of us have endured?

I might be wrong, but I sense that you see MC as a way (the only way) to present your side and fix your H. I sense that you want MC to fix your H, not your marriage. It is not going to happen. As so many of us have experienced, an MC never, virtually never sits there and blames one spouse--regardless of what they have done. Maybe a few members have seen that, but most of us experienced the "it takes two" marriage counselors who want to keep the balance by not taking a side. This is ineffective with an unremorseful cheater!!! In fact, you can end up worse off as you start to question your own sanity!

MC does not exist to fix a messed up spouse.

MC is perfect for marriages disagreeing about money, child rearing, or having communication issues because these people and marriages just need to find a middle ground. That's what this insane woman seems to be trying with you. You do not need a middle ground. Don't go back!

The only things that fix a broken spouse:

1. Realizing you can't fix them.

2. Detaching.

3. Focusing on you and your own life--only--while you watch them.

4. Living the 180.

5. Finding your bitch boots.

6. Getting your ducks in a row.

7. Imagining a future without them.

8. Realizing that crying and being angry with a WS are not consequences (to them) because you are the one upset, not them. What they think is, "I need to hide my secrets better! I don't want to deal with this drama again! Irritating!"

9. Moving out of the bedroom.

10. Actions! Never words. Just as no teenager ever changed their mind from a parental lecture, neither does a WS. They see the problem as your lectures, not their behavior.

If you really want a different M, then you need to change YOU and the way you behave in your M. Most MC can't and won't help with that. It's all on you.

Are you willing to change the way you behave with your H? Then live your own life and ignore him. He's gonna do what he's gonna do. Live YOUR life. For you.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:17 PM, Sunday, February 26th]

She seems to be firing you. I have to ask why you would return to this kind of abuse? She doesn't want to work with you.

We have all begged you to ditch MC, but you've ignored every member's advice. To your own detriment. Can't you see we are trying to help you avoid the MC trap that so many of us have endured?

No, actually I greatly appreciate the advice I've received here and am definitely not ignoring it. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my last post. I am most definitely ditching the MC. WH and I will not continue to work with her. What I was saying is that perhaps I will keep our final appointment just to say my peace. I will discuss it tomorrow with my IC and see what she thinks.

I left our last MC session feeling like I was the problem, like I was being obstinate and inflexible. I've discussed it with WH, thought about it over and over and posted about it here (and received good feedback and advice). The MC scheduled our next appointment for 3 weeks out to give us all time to process and decide whether or not to continue working together. I made my decision the second we left he session, even before we signed off. I'm feeling now, for my own sanity and sense of closure, I would like to tell her exactly how her "process" and direct way of speaking has made me feel. Perhaps she will take it to heart. Perhaps she will simply write me off as a crazy person. I don't care either way, but I would like express it to her anyway.

I agree that MC is not the right thing for us at this point. WH is starting with a new IC this week who specializes in people with chronic infidelity issues. We both agree that his former IC barely skimmed the surface with him. He didn't want to delve into his past, saying it might just bring up more issues. Instead, the IC only wanted to focus on correcting his behavior going forward. This approach did nothing to get to the bottom of why the behaviors happened in the first place.

Again, we will not continue to work with the MC. But if my IC thinks it's a good idea, we will be keeping the final appointment for closure.

What "closure" do you need? You hired this person to do a job; it's not working out. Just cancel the appointment. You don't owe her anything. Considering how one of your last sessions resulted with you having to go the ER, I wouldn't put yourself at risk of having any confrontation with this counselor that could be detrimental to your for your emotional and physical health.

You're also sending a message to your husband by just calling the MC off, which is that your days of putting up with bullshit are over, whether it's him or someone with fancy initials after their last name.

It’s also possible she could charge you for the session if you keep it to tell her what you think of her practices.

I think I’d send her a letter saying what you need to say so she can’t bill you for the time- and cc that letter to the board.

And I’d ask my WH to pay me for the time I spent in those wasted sessions because he continued to lie.

We were fired by our MC.

We started immediately after DDay 1, and it was immediately clear this was a bad choice, as she made everything 50/50 when the truth of my WH's devastation had only just begun trickling in.

During our third session, I said I wanted my WH to take revenge on the APs, and when she told me no, I said I disagreed, and she just totally unraveled before my eyes. She became angry, upset, lashed out at me, threw things back in my face that I had confided in her (as we sat there silently), and then finally told us that there was nothing she could do for us and that we should break up. We awkwardly left in silence.

We laughed about it right away--"oh, we're so bad, our MC fired us!"-- but it did a doozy on me because the experience was so terrible, I never wanted to try a therapist again. Not if I'm going to confide my deepest, most vulnerable feelings to a stranger who will use it against me the instant I disagree with her.

To that end, we should not have been in MC anyway. WH started IC for and has been doing it for two years; it has helped him (and me) tremendously. It took a few tries, but when he found a therapist who specialized in SA, everything finally clicked. He said his therapist is the only person who doesn't make him feel like a monster and gives him the guidance he needs.

Only six months ago, we decided to give MC another go, this time someone his therapist recommended. And it's been the best decision I've made yet regarding the infidelity.

So I guess this is a story of why it's good to keep looking until you find someone who works with you. And the instant you get bad vibes, walk away.

[This message edited by Revenger at 8:53 PM, Monday, February 27th]

I killed an old thread of yours when you told us you were in MC while the A was still going. How do you know it is over now?

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:31 PM, Monday, February 27th]

Agree with Owning It Now, MC shouldn't be happening this soon after NC has been broken and are you sure the contact is officially over?

You should be in IC for trauma and let your WS figure out his own mess if he can't I would leave.

I believe 180 should be in effect and you distancing yourself from your WS until you see anything worthy of R.

Owningitnow:

How do any of us really know anything? We keep our eyes and ears open, use the information we have and decide what to do next.

How do any of us really know anything? We keep our eyes and ears open, use the information we have and decide what to do next.

Your husband has had multiple "this is your last chance!" ultimatums and you still keep catching him cheating... so I think you should simply assume he is still cheating and talking to the OW until he proves to you that he isn't. This is not a court of law; you don't owe him the benefit of the doubt after all he's done.

This MC was awful, but the fact that she enabled your serially unfaithful, actively cheating WH made a bad situation worse. If you're not ready to file for divorce-- which might be the only thing that could wake your WH up, in opinion-- then you next best option is IC and the 180.