SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You don't see it here,because this site is about healing. The WS here are about taking responsibility for their actions,not blameshifting and blaming the AP for their actions,and building boundaries that weren't there before.

On the site you've been reading(again, I've read a few sites like it so ot may,or may not be the same one), they're very much into blaming their spouse, and they're oh so shocked that the OM would lie to them. They completely dismiss that the OM lied to his wife. The OW believe they're special,and the victims in a situation of their own making. There is very little,if any, introspection. They're not interested in being better people. They feel they're already great people,and it's not their fault they behaved as they did. The only healing they're looking to do,is getting over their AP.

What I find interesting about the whole "the POSOM is a scammer, bottom-feeding, liar" "women are hapless, hopeless victims" yada yada yada, is how many BHes on this forum 100% immediately brush every OM with the same stroke, and often, all possible male sexual partners...

They're all only out for one thing, right?

Before my DDay, my WH talked so much shit about every other man who even accidentally looked in my direction. I thought it was because he thought I was genuinely, uniquely, smokin hot.

Nope.

He wants to mount anything with an orifice and a pulse (and that being negotiable) so he assumes every other man does too.

So what about the men on this forum? If they think this of all other men...?

(Usually try to stay away from sexual stereotypes on this forum, but this post is steeped in 'em.)

Isn't this your WW?

Yes, but that isn’t how it started. She is still responsible for what she did. I believe it started because of the evil intentions of POSOM.

I think part of the spirit of these responses goes along the lines of "admitting you are a victim makes you weak, so deny and take back your power". My wife subscribed to that line of thinking. But she was a victim, of childhood trauma, sexual trauma, and her unwillingness to look at reality left her vulnerable. There is plenty of room on the victim list. I’m her victim. She could be POSOM’s victim. That isn’t impossible.

I'm going to bring up one other thing in terms of "I never thought I'd cheat but..."

On that gentle ramp to self delusion is the effect of porous boundaries and rationalization. I can have an opposite sex friend. I can feel attracted to them and not act on it. We can hug, friends hug. We can walk arm in arm. I'm just holding their hand to comfort them. Well a kiss on the cheek is European. And at some point the bubble bursts they are beyond plausible deniability and have already probably lied, minimized and generally not been transparent already. So it's that slow walk into the A that so many people don't understand. It still requires active deceit. It's still their fault.

She is still responsible for what she did. I believe it started because of the evil intentions of POSOM.

These two statements directly contradict each other. If she IS responsible, then his intentions are completely irrelevant.

Maybe posom had evil intentions, maybe he didn't. You don't know that. He started sniffin around and shouldn't have been. But YOUR WIFE LET HIM DO IT. She did not immediately shut it down. She didn't tell him 'no I'm married shoo' like she should/would have if she had strong boundaries. Instead she made hundreds and thousands of choices that led her into an affair. She made those choices - he didn't make her make those choices.

So what about the men on this forum? If they think this of all other men...?

Well, at the risk of furthering gender stereotypes, I’d say it implies that we men are truly and almost universally sexually motivated, including us poor saps who have been cheated on.

You will not meet a bigger predator than the one who targeted my wife, as well as many other married women. She was just a notch on his belt. His was skilled, and had numerous success in as he put it "getting these hot older women to do things they never did for their husbands". My EX was a truly a good person doing charity work, and always saw the best in people. She was a lamb waiting to be slaughtered.

Yet after he accomplished his goals the fact she was a lamb, and he was the executioner, didn’t change one iota of the things they did. She gave him anal more times in a few weeks than we did in 25 years of marriage. She had sex we me, including oral hours after he was done with her. She set up a meeting with him to finance his business. She did all this not with a gun to her head, but rather with the goal of doing something for herself as she felt left behind.

I hate the guy with a passion, but even though I don’t hate her, I hate her actions even more. She tossed away a 25 year marriage for a guy she says never meant anything. If he didn’t mean anything, what did I mean if she could do that to me. I don’t give her one ounce of sympathy for for falling prey to him. She was smarter than him, and should have known better. I really think that had he not targeted her, she never would have cheated. But he did, and she did, and I was left with the mess and heartbreak.

So many WS have this big epiphanies after they do some IC or MC as to why they did what they did. I’m not saying that’s not good, but then they turn this epiphany into an excuse or a reason why we should forgive. Hers was a MLC and predator. Still doesn’t change what she did to me and how it destroyed us.

So no. She wasn’t Granny falling for some prince scam. Granny wrote a check cause she didn’t know better. My EX on all fours for this guy knew this was wrong. She just obviously didn’t know how wrong she was

Edited to add she also after we divorced fell prey to one of those emails from the bank saying there was suspicious activity. I will say it looked pretty darn official.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 12:00 AM, Thursday, February 16th]

Yes, she lied. But she didn’t start the interactions with intent and lies (I believe), and he did (I believe).

Again, why does that matter in terms of accountability?

If someone tries to sell me a house I KNOW that I can’t afford, does it matter whether that person is predatory lender or an honest broker?

Again, I KNOW that the house is above my pay grade. I KNOW that taking out a mortgage will ruin me. So if I go further than admiring the house from the street— meeting with realtors, negotiating with brokers, and then close true deal— I have no one to blame but myself if I go into bankruptcy as a result.

Lastly, when you’re tempted to minimize your wife’s culpability, think about the perspective of the OBS. Your wife insinuated herself into OM’s life, her life, and even her children’s lives. Your wife took advantage of the all the free time she had during the day— thanks to your labor and OBS’s— to carry on with her husband. If that’s not predatory behavior, I don’t know what is.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 11:59 PM, Wednesday, February 15th]

These two statements directly contradict each other. If she IS responsible, then his intentions are completely irrelevant.

Ellie, I very respectfully disagree. These are not contradictory ideas. And maybe this helps me refine the idea in my head. We have different tiers of offenses in the justice system depending on intent of the criminal. There is murder 1 for premeditation, manslaughter, down to unintentional homicide. Someone died either way. And a criminal can be 100% guilty. But not everyone deserves the electric chair. That is reserved for the premeditating bastards who do it with no remorse. My wife had immense guilt and considered suicide. Fucking POSOM seems to have been unaffected (as I understand it). Those are different. Murder 1 vs 3rd degree, maybe even manslaughter.

I like lists. I’m a lister. From a lifetime of critical algorithmic thinking.

Here’s my reasoning for not focusing on the AP:

-Because when you do, you’re breathing life into that POS. Every thought you bestow upon him, gives to him and takes from you.

-You’re not married to him. He has no contract with you. He owes you nothing. He’s not accountable to you.

-He’s not the problem, you’re WW is the problem.

-He’s doing what homewrecking dogs do. It’s in their nature. It is their duty. These predators (or are they scavengers?) are placed on the earth to help us stress test our spouses to see if they’re worthy and/or if they need serious repair.

Thank him. Now you can move on and find someone worthy or, get her that therapy SHE HAS ALWAYS NEEDED. (Don’t really thank him, I’m being facetious)

-When you focus your anger on the AP, you’re getting distracted from THE REAL ISSUE. You’re giving your WW a mental pass every, single, time, you focus on him, and she’s loving it.

-When you focus on him, you’re gaslighting yourself. You’re making your WW the victim, artificially self soothing. This is no more effective than sweeping shit under the rug and drinking to drown out the pain.

I don’t need my marriage to survive or be held together by the eradication of home wreckers, I need it to survive by something more profound.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 12:11 AM, Thursday, February 16th]

I agree inkhulk. If a person knowing seeks an A they are unlikely to be R material. If they walk down the gentle ramp, they are likely to be able to identify their errors and to become safe again. Intent does matter in that sense. Those that go A seeking are likely serial cheaters with almost chance of improvement.

Lastly, when you’re tempted to minimize your wife’s culpability, think about the perspective of the OBS. Your wife insinuated herself into OM’s life, her life, and even her children’s lives.

It’s not my job to mitigate the problem that OBS’s WS is potentially a worse offender than my WW, if true it is what it is and that’s her problem.
You are right that how my wife acted in the affair was abominable. Completely abhorrent. But let me try another word picture here. Affairs are like addictions. Imagine if someone were to come along and give you a highly addictive drug without your knowledge and you became a drug addict. Watch Dopesick if you think this is contrived, it’s about oxycotin and the lives it ruined with deceptive addictions. You start living the life of an addict. Your world falls apart, you lie cheat and steal. Yes, you are responsible for your crimes. And absolutely yes, anyone who intentionally did that to you is even worse.

He’s doing what homewrecking dogs do. It’s in their nature. It is their duty. These predators (or are they scavengers?) are placed on the earth to help us stress test our spouses to see if they’re worthy and/or if they need serious repair.

Honestly, do you believe this? Do you have a daughter? I do. If I found out that a man had lured her with intent into a destructive relationship, my response sure as hell would not be "you are not worthy!!!" I would feel that I failed her as a father to not make her aware in the world. And I would fucking hate the POS who deceived her. And I would also be disappointed in her for her choices. All of those things would be true at the same time.

If a person knowing seeks an A they are unlikely to be R material. If they walk down the gentle ramp, they are likely to be able to identify their errors and to become safe again. Intent does matter in that sense. Those that go A seeking are likely serial cheaters with almost chance of improvement.

Thanks, Fine. This is a lot of what I’m saying. And that a person lured down the ramp should have that considered. I hope I am never put in that position.

I hate the guy with a passion, but even though I don’t hate her, I hate her actions even more. She tossed away a 25 year marriage for a guy she says never meant anything. If he didn’t mean anything, what did I mean if she could do that to me. I don’t give her one ounce of sympathy for for falling prey to him. She was smarter than him, and should have known better. I really think that had he not targeted her, she never would have cheated. But he did, and she did, and I was left with the mess and heartbreak.

This breaks my heart so much, I’m so sorry for your pain. I think things like the Milgram experiment show that we don’t behave rationally, even to the point of great harm to others. But by the grace of God, there go I (I say this about myself).

I know for a fact my WW pursued the AP. She chased after him, he took advantage of an opportunity. I blame her not him.

You don't see it here,because this site is about healing. The WS here are about taking responsibility for their actions,not blameshifting and blaming the AP for their actions,and building boundaries that weren't there before.

If it was my wife posting this it would probably be more alarming and problematic. But it’s not, it’s me, trying to figure out all this craziness. I’ve asked my wife to help me understand his role, and she is hesitant to do it so as to not deflect blame. I as the betrayed don’t have that conflict of interest.

I know for a fact my WW pursued the AP. She chased after him, he took advantage of an opportunity. I blame her not him.

Thanks for sharing, Tanner. I’m guessing that it would have mattered to you if she was not the pursuer. Do you agree?

I really do appreciate your sympathy. I know it’s not the usual protocol, but I’m going to quote myself.

So no. She wasn’t Granny falling for some prince scam. Granny wrote a check cause she didn’t know better. My EX on all fours for this guy knew this was wrong

This to me is the bottom line. Holds true for a male WS.

Do you have a daughter? I do. If I found out that a man had lured her with intent into a destructive relationship, my response sure as hell would not be "you are not worthy!!!"

You’re doing it. You’re victimizing your WW.

And yes, I have a daughter. Your reply gave me pause. Is it that our love for our children is unconditional? I still love my ExWW, even though she cheated, but not as a wife any longer. Not as daughter-of course. As a friend? If she truly reconciles with herself, yes, as a friend.