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I Can Relate :
BS Questions for WS - Part 15

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 12:14 AM on Friday, October 14th, 2022

Anyone not have an affair for the sex? Or did you just have sex because you thought that is what they would want to keep giving you the attention you wanted? Like you were worried if you didn't give them that part they would find someone who would and you wouldn't get the attention anymore that made you feel so great?

I didn't do it for the sex, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the sex. It just wasn't the primary driving factor.

If you had told me six months before I cheated that I would end up sleeping with the OM behind BH's back, I'd have said you were crazy. My A was a classic "Not Just Friends" affair where I broke boundaries bit by bit, lying to myself the whole time. Eventually things progressed to where sex was the last line of defense. I was holding out because I thought that "at least" I could look in the mirror and know I hadn't let things get that far. And then, alas, I did.

Why did I cross the line? Because of ego (I wanted him to remember it and me), because of guilt (I was ending the A when he didn't want to), because of infatuation (that dopamine rush), and because of physical arousal (I like sex). I wouldn't have done it for the last reason alone, but I'm not pretending that I had to close my eyes and get through it. I wanted it. I've told my BH the truth of that, crushing though it was.

FWIW, I'm pretty convinced in retrospect that OM did go to someone else to fill in what I wasn't providing for most of the A. I think he lied about it because he believed it would have made me less likely to sleep with him. I honestly don't know if that's true. It might have made me more competitive. More than anything else, my A was about feeling powerful. Affection came second, and sex was third.

WW/BW

posts: 2952   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8759432
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doublerainbow ( new member #82239) posted at 4:08 AM on Friday, October 28th, 2022

I’ve read through this thread multiple times and appreciate all of the responses from the WS. Mine are very similar but a bit more specific to my situation:

1. I get that WS are experts at constructing conflicting realities. We have a DD and if you conveniently forget WS robbed her of a happy mother, he is by all definitions a good father. However he denied DD’s existence to AP. How on God’s green earth can a human being seen like a wonderful father and yet claim he doesn’t have a child on an online dating site? It makes me sick when I see him playing with her.

2. WS grew up in a family where his dad cheated on his mom. He firsthand experienced his mom’s pain and wanted her to D. If as a child he experienced all this and knew how painful and dysfunctional it made his upbringing and family, why would he risk inflicting the same pain on his child / family?

3. WS used to always say "don’t sh-t where you eat" aka don’t date at work. AP works at the same company even though they don’t directly work together. WS’ coworkers know he’s married. AP did not. How did WS actually think he was not gonna be busted?! A lasted several months where they actually met at work for dates.

TIA.

Me: BS (38)
Him: WS (45)
D-Day (Jan 2022), going through D.
1 DD age 4.
Just want to know there’s light at the end of this mess.

posts: 41   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2022   ·   location: West Coast
id 8762490
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 1:28 AM on Saturday, October 29th, 2022

Hi DR,

1. Compartmentalization. In my A, my work life (COW) and my home life didn't collide. I kept them hermetically sealed as much as possible from each other. At least in regards to what my H knew about AP. AP knew I was married, knew about my kids. Knew that I was desperately unhappy and knew that the kids wanted me to D their dad on Father's Day (story for another time). My A was different to your WH's A in that my AP had a window into my life. But... I still compartmentalized my work life (A) from my home life (H).

2. I was a daughter watching her mother getting cheated on. Only, this was in elementary-middle school and I didn't know what I was seeing. I thought it was normal for dad to flirt with Mrs. C and for mom and dad to fight all the time. I also thought it was normal for us 5 girls (me and my sisters and Mrs. C's 2 daughters) to talk about our parents divorcing and remarrying so we could be sisters together (WHAT FUN!!).

Watching all that did not prevent me from my own A. BUT, I did go into my M expecting little of my H in terms of loyalty, affection, respect and positive treatment. I had no idea what healthy boundaries looked like, had no idea things he was doing with his female friends were disrespectful, didn't think what I was doing talking to my friends (bitching about H) or talking to my work friends (looking for support in parenting/career stuff) was a problem either. I felt awful when H would compare me to other women, felt awful when he was giving more glowing reviews of other women than he regularly did me. I hated it when he over spent and I hated it when he came home and did nothing but criticize me. I felt subtly uncomfortable with my sharing all the bad stuff in our M with my friends and felt a little awkward when guy friends would tell me what a great mom/person/worker I was. NONE of this though was a red flag. I had no idea that red flags were something to be wary of, and blissfully ignored them all and proceeded to have my own A.

3. We kept our A pretty discreet at work. I think some people suspected something was up, but I don't think they really KNEW what was going on for sure. We were in different departments in the same building, so while we knew some of the same people, we weren't working together hardly at all. We would chat in the halls, but not any longer or weirder than what other co-workers who were friends would. We conducted our A mostly on messenger or text or phone (going home from work) or meeting up for lunch.

Your WH's situation may have been different. Some work places are silos where other departments don't interact very often. Karen from accounting might legit barely know anything about the family life of Jerry from sales, especially if the company was large enough. Plus, I know from the inside that people in A's rarely ACTUALLY care about their AP. I mean, we're all selfish assholes for even getting into an A.

Your WH's AP may not have known, may not have thought to even look on social media. When she was starting (what she thought was) a legit relationship with a single COW, she would have been basing that relationship off of a desire to trust. So long as your WH didn't give her any reason to feel fishy about their relationship, she wouldn't have a reason to check around. I feel sad for her. But in a way, proud of her too. She found out and did the right thing at the right time- let the BW know and cut ties as soon as she knew.

By the way, in this case, the AP was not the problem, AT ALL. Your WH is. It's funny, most single OW's or OM's are at fault, but from your writings, it doesn't sound like your WH's AP was at all. I suppose there are unicorns out there.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 894   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8762730
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doublerainbow ( new member #82239) posted at 2:32 AM on Saturday, October 29th, 2022

Thanks for the perspective, MIgander. A lot of it does explain some of WS’ thought process with the exception of being a child of M where infidelity occurred. While you thought it was normal, WS was at the age where he knew it wasn’t and actually tried to convince his mom to D. Can I ask at what point you discovered your parent’s infidelity?

As for AP, you are correct. I am eternally grateful to her for telling me, even though it has resulted in this shitty life I’m living right now and despite me not being able to find as much to relate to in here given the unicorn A / AP.

She told me she was worried I wouldn’t believe her and just get mad at her for trying to ruin my M. At no point during D-Day did I not believe her. Everything she said about encounters, dates, and the lies he told her to try to cover up the fact he had a family lined up. She also had screenshots to back up what she said. We were also texting back and forth the morning after D-Day while WS was begging us both for a chance - yeah, at the same time. If that isn’t messed up I don’t know what is.

The way it went down gave me clarity to channel all of my anger at WS alone and also solidified my decision to go straight to D (on top of WS blaming me for A and continuing to lie about A details despite claming he would be transparent, of course). I should also mention the months leading up to D-Day I suspected WS was cheating but had no evidence and thought it was with someone else - a "platonic" female friend, who, through some twisted law of the universe, both AP and I also know through 3 degrees of separation. AP actually wanted to warn her too about WS, at the time I had no energy to debate that. I have no idea whether AP went ahead and scorched the earth there.

On days where I’m not thinking of my own pain, I do think about AP and empathize with her, and wonder how she’s doing. At least in my situation I can D, work on my healing, hopefully get some financial support for my future through D, and most of all - and this gives me daily strength to go on - I got a beautiful wonderful DD out of the M, and that is something I will never lose. She was quite literally left with nothing except the extreme pain of being cheated on.

Some days I wonder whether AP and I could become friends at some point, although the logical side of me wonders if that’s just messed up.

Me: BS (38)
Him: WS (45)
D-Day (Jan 2022), going through D.
1 DD age 4.
Just want to know there’s light at the end of this mess.

posts: 41   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2022   ·   location: West Coast
id 8762733
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:57 PM on Tuesday, November 1st, 2022

Hi DR,

Crazy busy weekend with Halloween! Seems like it keeps growing into a bigger deal each year.

Can I ask at what point you discovered your parent’s infidelity?

It wasn't so much as discovering it (even at 9 I knew that dad and Mrs. C were acting weird). It was putting together what I saw as a child and understanding it as an adult. Confirmation from my sisters that it went physical came about 3 years ago. Also, my sister told me of another A while my sisters were young and I was a baby at his workplace. There's potentially an OC out there. Rumored brother.

So yeah, I always thought it was weird, but I didn't know how weird. It was recently clarified for me about the time of my DDay.

The way it went down gave me clarity to channel all of my anger at WS alone and also solidified my decision to go straight to D

This is very good. The ability to gain clarity, ascertain the major aspects of the affair in a detailed and relatively reliable (backed up with what you knew) way is precious. If you could, please store anything evidence wise the OW gave you. I would put it somewhere off site from your house. Data stick at a friend's house would be a good idea. While the info may not be pertinent to the D (no-fault state?), it can help determine the finer points like CS and custody.

Some days I wonder whether AP and I could become friends at some point, although the logical side of me wonders if that’s just messed up.

Don't think it too weird. I don't see you guys becoming besties and getting your nails done together. But, there is a shared traumatic experience. It's awful that she was cheated on too, not knowing your WH was married. It's going to put a huge big fat question mark in her confidence in choosing well for herself. That's no small burden to carry.

Pretty disgusting what your WH did to both of you. He robbed you of your entire life and M. He robbed OW of time that could be better spent finding a suitable life mate, security and trust in a relationship and hope for future relationships. As a woman, I find that the idea of WH's robbing single (and unaware) OW's of prime time in their childbearing years especially egregious. A woman who is honestly seeking to establish a family with children has a limited window to accomplish that and wasting her time is a different kind of theft. Time in her fertile years she can't get back and further time stolen with her recovery from the trauma.

This isn't to minimize your pain in anyway. Your pain is the primary pain and claims on your WH were much greater than those of OW. I'm sorry you're dealing with this and hope your D goes smoothly so you can move on with your life and find peace.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 894   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8763115
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Gunny7236 ( new member #82312) posted at 3:21 PM on Friday, November 4th, 2022

I don't think we will ever get an honest answer because the WS may never omit guilt or sorrow for their actions. All we can do is not let their guilt and shame control us. We are the ones who have had our love betrayed, that shows we have love and can love again. I know it's difficult to see a future at this time. However, the future is bright. We will survive and be stronger for it. Let the WS suffer with guilt and shame because one day they will have to look at themselves in the mirror and feel the pain they have caused. While we can look in the mirror and know we are guilt-free. If you have kids be the stability they deserve. Kids will develop their own opinion of what happened. Do not influence the process. Only support, love, and care for them. I wish everyone going through this that you are loved and will survive. Do not let it consume you (especially the hate and anger you feel) focus on what is positive in your life and fill your heart with it. Love will always conquer hate and anger. Good luck to all I will see you on the other side happy and full of love.

posts: 1   ·   registered: Nov. 4th, 2022   ·   location: Fort Worth
id 8763608
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Howcthappen ( new member #80775) posted at 4:20 AM on Sunday, November 6th, 2022

My fwh says he doesn’t think about her until I bring her up. It’s been almost3 years.
How true is this?
I find it hard to believe.

Where you able to walk away and make a clean break and not think about your AP? How long did it take!

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 19   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8763895
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 2:21 PM on Sunday, November 6th, 2022

Gunny,

You have a PM.

To All:

BSes are unable to answer questions in this forum by the very nature of this forum - BS QUestions for WSes.. Only WSes can provide an answer from a WS.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:23 PM, Sunday, November 6th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27869   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8763924
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denwickdroylsden ( new member #51744) posted at 6:23 PM on Sunday, November 6th, 2022

"Where you able to walk away and make a clean break and not think about your AP? How long did it take!"

At Dday, AP and I had a messy breakup initiated by NC by me. 5 months later she reached out again via text. I ignored it and informed BS of the attempted contact. A year later, as I felt stricken with remorse not just for what I'd done to W but for how I'd treated AP, I reached out to her to apologize and we had several exchanges via email and one or two calls. Realizing I was heading down that same bad dark path (bc AP seemed willing), I cut things off again. There has been no contact in the 10 years since.

I wish I did not think about her but in all honesty I still do. Not daily but I still think about her. Sometimes about the good things. Sometimes kind of 'what if' I'd gone a different direction. But mostly with shame and regret. She did not deserve what I did to her. Neither did W.

Me: WH frequent flyer
Now on straight and narrow
"What's the secret of a long term marriage?" Amnesia.

posts: 38   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2016
id 8763956
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doublerainbow ( new member #82239) posted at 10:34 PM on Sunday, November 6th, 2022

Thank you MIgander for the perspective, and wow you articulated AP’s plight so well. Up until now I sympathized with her bc I knew she was unknowingly the third party, but your comments about how her time was wasted by WH really strikes a chord. I might wait a bit longer to reach out and see how she’s doing, as I have way too much going on, as selfish as that sounds.

My next question for WS is: do you all ever remember the lies you told? Even one of them? Or is there something that goes on in your brains
where the lies came out of your mouths before you realized it, and when thinking back you just believed all the lies you told.

Not sure I’m being clear in my question, but I guess I’m trying to understand the whole thing around rewriting history after D-day. How does that actually work in the WS’ thought process?

I ask bc one of the first things I asked WH about the reason for his cheating was that he started to believe his lies.

TIA.

Me: BS (38)
Him: WS (45)
D-Day (Jan 2022), going through D.
1 DD age 4.
Just want to know there’s light at the end of this mess.

posts: 41   ·   registered: Oct. 26th, 2022   ·   location: West Coast
id 8763991
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denwickdroylsden ( new member #51744) posted at 12:56 PM on Monday, November 7th, 2022

"My next question for WS is: do you all ever remember the lies you told?"

I remember all the lies I told before Dday. My last A ran for 3 years so there were tons of lies, all variations on a theme. I remember lying to BS when she asked me directly, shortly before Dday, if I was seeing anyone, and I said No.

After this last Dday (there were other A's before this going back years), I resolved not to lie any more so I did not. When she asked me questions about AP and the A, I answered honestly, tough as it was. So much so that BS stopped me and said she did not want to hear any more. Then began the great rug-sweep under which we've lived ever since.

Me: WH frequent flyer
Now on straight and narrow
"What's the secret of a long term marriage?" Amnesia.

posts: 38   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2016
id 8764058
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Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 7:53 PM on Monday, November 7th, 2022

My next question for WS is: do you all ever remember the lies you told? Even one of them? Or is there something that goes on in your brains
where the lies came out of your mouths before you realized it, and when thinking back you just believed all the lies you told.

An interesting question. We lie a lot as Waywards. Do I remember telling lies? Yes, of course. I remember telling myself it would be better for BS if she did not know what I did. The reality of course was I was protecting myself. Living in denial, but aware of lies. Do I remember all the lies, absolutely not. I've lied so much, both to BS and to myself. I am even struggling to ascertain the truth from the lies I told myself. Less so now, but I wanted to feel better about myself that I refused to accept I had done what I did. A selfish way of dealing with my past.

Something I'm working on is the default lie. Lies to BS, work, family friends everywhere. "I had to work late, so could not make it to the bar last night" rather than "I'm sorry, I was tired and not feeling up to going out". Of course, when it comes to infidelity the choice to lie is hardwired into Waywards. Avoid, minimise, omit or tell complete untruths. All of this is a lie. Getting control of yourself and choosing to tell the truth rather than choosing to lie does take effort. Even, breathing and taking a few seconds to stop and think.

WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, Jan 21 and 2022

posts: 245   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8764133
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Howcthappen ( new member #80775) posted at 3:49 AM on Wednesday, November 9th, 2022

Denrick-

Why did you break
No contact and speak to the AP?

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 19   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8764263
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denwickdroylsden ( new member #51744) posted at 2:21 PM on Wednesday, November 9th, 2022

Denrick-

Why did you break
No contact and speak to the AP?

80% because I felt guilty about my conduct with and toward her and wanted to apologize and give her a chance to vent her anger. 20% because I missed her. Knew I shouldn't, but that's the truth.

As I said in earlier post, those resumed contacts were brief and traumatic and there has been nothing further for over a decade.

Me: WH frequent flyer
Now on straight and narrow
"What's the secret of a long term marriage?" Amnesia.

posts: 38   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2016
id 8764294
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Howcthappen ( new member #80775) posted at 5:55 PM on Wednesday, November 9th, 2022

So hard to read. I know my husband could never live with me doing the same things to him. He keeps thinking I’m going to have a revenge affair. I just want him to feel what I’m feeling right now. He’s trying to make it up to me. But the thought of the WH being concerned about the AP and feeling guilty about what was done to that POS is beyond me.

It’s a constant struggle to not seek revenge.

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 19   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8764326
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 11:46 AM on Friday, November 11th, 2022

As mentioned before: This forum is strictly for BS to ask questions of WS. It is not a forum for BS members to answer questions. For open discussion please take your topic to General.

Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 15559   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Texas
id 8764637
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OldBeachOwl ( new member #81048) posted at 5:31 PM on Saturday, November 12th, 2022

Question for mâle WS's..Was the illicit thrill and excitement of having a physical affair with another man's wife a dominant factor in deciding with whom you wanted to cheat? In other words was it a turn on knowing you were poaching on somebody else's territory, with potentially dangerous consequences if caught? I ask this as my fWW confessed she had invited her AP to a Halloween Party we gave about five months into her affair with him, and she told me he only came to see what kind of person I was and find out whether I had firearms. I did have a S&W .38 snub nose pistol at the time, and although i was blissfully ignorant of the fact that he wss having sex with my wife I am certain that I would never have used it on him.

posts: 14   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2022   ·   location: Tucson
id 8764912
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 7:38 PM on Saturday, November 12th, 2022

OBO

For me, my AP’s H never really entered in my decision as to whether I had an A with her or not. My AP was in the process of D and painted her H in a pretty bad light. That may have made it easier for me to think that what I was doing was Ok. But ultimately it wouldn’t have mattered to me whether she was married or in a relationship.

Of course now in hindsight I feel like shit for doing it. I only got her side of things and I suspect he wasn’t the monster she portrayed him to be.

Me -FWS

posts: 1983   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8764928
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denwickdroylsden ( new member #51744) posted at 12:31 PM on Sunday, November 13th, 2022

OBO: Male WS here... I always thought married AP were safer under the theory of mutually assured destruction. Never had a Dday from the other side, only from mine. As to whether I thought of the BH in any meaningful way the answer is no. The last AP was having an exit A (though she always denied that) and they did split up in the midst of the A though I don't know that he ever knew about the A and she said split had nothing to do with our A but I never completely believed that. I guess as sorry as it sounds (and everything about my A behavior was contemptible), I generally never thought about the BH unless AP brought him up. None of my AP were in happy M, that's for sure.

Me: WH frequent flyer
Now on straight and narrow
"What's the secret of a long term marriage?" Amnesia.

posts: 38   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2016
id 8764976
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Howcthappen ( new member #80775) posted at 12:36 PM on Monday, November 14th, 2022

This is a tough one-

So I recall during the affair there were times during sex where he wouldn’t ejaculate after I had an orgasm. This was kind of frustrating for me. I didn’t know he was having an affair at the time but now looking back I’m frustrated because I am making up stories in my head that he just preferred finishing with his AP.
He says that it was because of guilt but that seems odd. You didn’t feel guilty over there with the AP?
Our sex was still very enjoyable and regular but he just wasn’t finishing. Did your sex preference change? Does his reason sound iffy?

Three years since DdayNever gonna be the sameReconcilingThe sting is still present

posts: 19   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2022   ·   location: DC
id 8765083
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