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Newest Member: Stark

Just Found Out :
Just a kiss... or 2?

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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 12:33 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

Hellfire's notion that sometimes it is actually pretty straightforward is true I think. Whether that be selfishness, drunken lust or, maybe in this case, a depression and lingering worry/fear/lack of self worth due to her MS. Combine that with personal boundaries that aren't well established and that can be all it takes.

posts: 650   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8753456
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 1:21 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

What Dkt3 and murkywaters said!

posts: 509   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 3:05 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

Most of us would have given our eyeteeth for a cheater whose conscience hurt them enough to confess like that.

My infidelity journey started with my xwh "confessing" too because of his "conscience". And I took it as a good sign as well. He confessed "before anything happened" and on his own and I thought that meant he realized... things.

Whoops. Turns out his "confession" was some bullshit too, just like everything else he did in our wreckonciliation attempt.

OP, if my personal experience and my years here on SI have taught me anything, it is that whatever the ws tells you is most likely just the tip of a very nasty and painful iceberg. Not saying that true confessions aren't real - I am sure they are in a very small percentage of cases - but rather saying that it almost always turns out that the BS finds more and more lies when they dig in.

Most ws's (yes, even those that 'confess') will tell you only. Only what they think you need to hear, only what they can stand to admit to themselves, only enough to keep you addicted to hope and staying with them. I am not telling you that to hurt you or to pass any judgement at all on you - I very much hope yours is one of the small percentage cases. I'm just saying this to you and also to my old self that you will likely never know the 'full' truth, no matter what she tells you. It's up to you to figure out if the truth you DO know is enough for you to make informed choices for YOURSELF.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3574   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
id 8753503
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lrpprl ( new member #80538) posted at 3:07 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

I agree with Murky Waters. Her sitting for an embarrassing polygraph could be a first step in her being able to regain your trust. A polygraph can serve several different purposes.

If divorce is the goal you have all the information you need to go ahead and file for divorce.

If reconciliation is the goal, then you have to know with what you are reconciling.

Two situations on Surviving Infidelity come to mind with respect to using polygraphs:

The first is the one of Mr. Flibble. As I recall, either the use of the polygraph,or maybe it was the so-called "parking lot confession", produced one additional affair of infidelity of which he was unaware. She had had emotional affair with an older man from years earlier. That put him over the edge and he divorced. In this case, penis in vagina intercourse never occurred in either affair and many viewers were hoping for them to reconcile before the polygraph.

The second is the situation of Neanderthal and Life Destroyer. I could be wrong, but I believe she kept insisting that she had intercourse only once with her affair partner. Again, I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that with use of the polygraph it came out that she had had intercourse several times over a longer time period of infidelity. Divorce also happened here even though it looked like before the polygraph that they might be able to reconcile. Life Destroyer not only lied to her husband but to readers on Surviving Infidelity.

I don't know if either of those threads might be of use to you.

posts: 22   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
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HarryD ( member #72423) posted at 3:24 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

But now your wife knows, that you are so upset over an attempt "BJ" That if she tells you that more happen " PIV" sex. You will leave her.
She will never give you more information.

posts: 114   ·   registered: Dec. 30th, 2019   ·   location: NY
id 8753522
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 5:09 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

Whoops. Turns out his "confession" was some bullshit too, just like everything else he did in our wreckonciliation attempt.

OP, if my personal experience and my years here on SI have taught me anything, it is that whatever the ws tells you is most likely just the tip of a very nasty and painful iceberg. Not saying that true confessions aren't real - I am sure they are in a very small percentage of cases - but rather saying that it almost always turns out that the BS finds more and more lies when they dig in.

I don't think you can say that it's only a small percentage of WS's who get honest with their spouse pretty quickly though, at least not in cases where the WS is actually suitable for R. In your case, Ellie, your WH was never willing to be real with you. He never flipped the switch, but I don't think my fWH is a rare event because he did. When you think about it, R doesn't work until that happens. None of us who are in R would be here if there didn't become a point in which honesty was satisfactorily reestablished, and it stands to reason that for most of us, that point was early enough on that we hadn't become so exhausted as to give up yet.

Is the WW in this case there yet? Who knows? The only thing we can be sure of is that no one posting here is in a position to say with any authority at all either way. She could still be evading and minimizing. That's true. But she could also be telling the truth as she understands it and that's also true. I stand by my belief though that it's a good sign when a WS confesses. If memory serves, your xWH had some kind of polyamory agenda he was trying to facilitate, and a big enough case of narcissistic ego that he believed he could manipulate you to accepting his proposal. The confession was part of an agenda and you were smart enough to see through it because you're awesome like that. grin

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5967   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8753578
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Unhinged ( member #47977) posted at 5:20 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

Gentlemen, I'm quite certain by now that PFB84 is well aware that cheaters will minimize, and he has repeatedly stated that he struggles, understandably, to believe his WW's story. Continuing to brow-beat the poor guy isn't going to help. While I believe his WW's story is entirely possible, I can only hope that I'm right (as I'm sure PFB84 does, too!). We've already suggested a poly and to carefully observe her reaction to such a request.

Let's move on.

Married 2005
D-Day April, 2015
Divorced May, 2022

"The Universe is not short on wake-up calls. We're just quick to hit the snooze button." -Brene Brown

posts: 6592   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Colorado
id 8753581
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QuitePossible ( member #80726) posted at 6:02 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

Man, I am hoping for a healthy R in this case.

But I am expecting a DD2 or TT revelation coming.

God Bless, PFB84.

posts: 52   ·   registered: Aug. 26th, 2022   ·   location: East Coast
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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 6:42 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

I stand by my belief though that it's a good sign when a WS confesses.

I don't disagree with this in general. However, speaking from my own personal experience, I think there's a real danger in pinning too much hope on this as a BS. Yes, it IS objectively good that OP's ww confessed, but any ws 'confession' needs to be taken with a huge truckload of salt IMHO. OP, I get the sense that you ARE taking it that way, so not implying otherwise - just sharing my personal experience with a ws who 'confessed everything' early on, only to continue lying and minimizing and manipulating and blame-shifting and generally being a huge horse's ass during our 'R' attempt.

Just saying that I made a lot of assumptions based on his apparent guilty conscience that spurred his 'confession' that kept me from really bringing the hammer down on him about my needs and wants when we were still trying to work on things. Also, I treated him with a lot more softness than I should have because of 'how horrible he felt about himself'. I get that your situation is more nuanced because of your ww's medical issues for sure, but don't allow those or her feeling bad to keep you from honoring YOU in this - what YOU need and want is very VERY important right now. My xwh was famously shame-spirally and hand-wringy during our R period and I allowed him to use that as an avoidance; I would do things very differently now with the benefit of hindsight.

If memory serves, your xWH had some kind of polyamory agenda he was trying to facilitate, and a big enough case of narcissistic ego that he believed he could manipulate you to accepting his proposal. The confession was part of an agenda and you were smart enough to see through it because you're awesome like that.

Your memory does indeed serve. Still just WTF about this nonsense from him laugh I'm awesome about it NOW, but certainly wasn't so right at the beginning!

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

posts: 3574   ·   registered: Nov. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: CO
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 6:49 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

I get that your situation is more nuanced because of your ww's medical issues for sure, but don't allow those or her feeling bad to keep you from honoring YOU in this - what YOU need and want is very VERY important right now.

Absolutely agree with this. We can be really sympathetic to the WW's medical condition, but not everyone with an illness chooses to cheat. The underlying cause, IMHO, is still about character and her relationship to her own values system.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5967   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8753598
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 PFB84 (original poster member #80715) posted at 7:26 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

I get that your situation is more nuanced because of your ww's medical issues for sure, but don't allow those or her feeling bad to keep you from honoring YOU in this - what YOU need and want is very VERY important right now. My xwh was famously shame-spirally and hand-wringy during our R period and I allowed him to use that as an avoidance

Thank you for the reminder, this has been a daily struggle for me FOR SURE. Not that she is avoiding, but she is definitely in rough shape as stress compounds her symptoms significantly. Sometimes I find myself torn on weather to discuss something on my mind, or wait until she's feeling better. Ultimately I have been able to remind myself this was her choice, and I am holding the cards and she has never evaded or asked to do it later or anything like that, but it's still hard for me to get out of the caretaker mode.

[This message edited by PFB84 at 7:36 PM, Friday, September 2nd]

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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 7:33 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

Most of us would have given our eyeteeth for a cheater whose conscience hurt them enough to confess like that.

Well actually ChamomileTea, most of us really would have given our eyeteeth instead for a partner whose conscience would have stopped her FROM CHEATING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

That she confessed after her affair, even if it is 100% the truth and the full truth, is much MUCH better than lying or minimizing, but compared to not having the affair in the first place, it is still but a lousy consolation prize.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:48 PM, Friday, September 2nd]

posts: 420   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 8:04 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

My WH confessed. And it was a complete minimization. It went from a ONS at a work event, to a 2 year affair. I only found out the truth by digging.

I agree,it's rare that a WS is completely honest upfront. After all,infidelity is deception,with often hundreds, if not thousands, of lies,from the start. Just read this forum. In the first 10 pages alone, you would be hard pressed to find a BS who got the entire truth within the first few days of dday, whether their ws confessed,or was caught. Does it happen? Sometimes. Not often.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:05 PM, Friday, September 2nd]

posts: 4675   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
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iggyb ( member #74562) posted at 11:45 PM on Friday, September 2nd, 2022

That she confessed after her affair, even if it is 100% the truth and the full truth, is much MUCH better than lying or minimizing, but compared to not having the affair in the first place, it is still but a lousy consolation prize

.

That has to be one of the best comments I have ever read.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Jun. 10th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8753644
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HarryD ( member #72423) posted at 3:13 PM on Sunday, September 4th, 2022

No to pick on anyone. But it’s hard to understand, even though I been there. That we always give them the benefit of doubt. We believe there Bull sh*t. "We went away for the weekend, but nothing happen". " girls night" I don’t know why we just don’t call it like it is?

Why we need a full video of them doing it ,to actually say you cheated. Then them saving it really wasn’t that great. The six times we did it. “ did I really tell you, I don’t like that , We have to try that one day”

[This message edited by HarryD at 3:16 PM, Sunday, September 4th]

posts: 114   ·   registered: Dec. 30th, 2019   ·   location: NY
id 8753824
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 12:40 AM on Monday, September 5th, 2022

PFB84,

Changing direction to an overlooked element of your situation, how are you in yourself? You have mentioned that your sleep is interrupted. Are you eating regularly and keeping yourself hydrated? It is very easy to ignore yourself when you are pre-occupied with something else. People here have gone though every after-effect of infidelity, and they can offer advice about how they coped with them.

You mentioned 'mind movies'. Many people have benefited from EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitisation Reprogramming) for PTSD, and that is something that you should ask your therapist about.

When it comes to infidelity, there are no 'one size fits all' solutions. We often find ourselves fighting an internal battle, in which our emotions push us in one direction, but our principles or preconceptions push us in another. None of us know how we will react to infidelity until it happens to us, even the people who are 100% sure they would never tolerate being cheated on. Actually, it would be surprising to find anyone who - prior to experiencing infidelity - would say it is not a deal-breaker for them. When it happens to us, the way ahead is much less clear.

Sometimes a forum like this may feel like you are running through an artillery barrage, with multiple ideas and viewpoints exploding around you. That is why an oft-quoted tenet of this forum is, "Take what you need, and leave the rest". That may sound like a cliche, but if you collect the ideas that strike a chord with you, and ignore those that do not, it will help you to build an idea of what you need to move forwards on whichever path you choose.

At the moment, you are still reeling in the wake of what has happened. Do not make any promises at all to your wife. I do not say this cruelly, but let her worry. Leave her in limbo. It will do her good, and it will discourage her from heading down the same slippery slope in future. Also, you should not tie your hands by making promises unless you are 100% sure they are right for you. There is nothing wrong with you remaining in the marriage - and I am sure you have many reasons to do that - but do not do anything that might lead your wife to take that for granted. She needs to feel that the ground beneath her feet is not solid, and that you are not always going to be there, regardless of what she does. Let her know that you 'walking' is is a potential outcome if you are left feeling insecure. It is down to her to to do the work to provide that security to you.

It may be that you have already decided that you are going to stay. If that feels right to you, fair enough. However, it would be counter-productive to the marriage for you to communicate that to your wife, because she needs motivation to clean her act up and make you feel secure. Do not give yourself back to her before she has ticked all of the boxes on the checklist of what you need from her. That is not manipulation; it is protecting yourself, and ensuring that your wife is more focused on protecting the marriage than she was when she decided to walk on the wild side. Which will be beneficial for both of you in the long run.

You are in our thoughts, and we all recall the time when we were in the spot you find yourself in.

posts: 1241   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8753908
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 2:27 AM on Monday, September 5th, 2022

OK, I may be repeating what someone else said because I’ve not had a chance to read many other remarks but I have to say this. You and your wife need to settle this fairly quickly. I don’t often recommend that but you have a wife with a disease that is much better when the person is not under stress. Stress is awful for auto immune diseases. If you and she can manage to move on with some good therapy then I suggest you plan that or, you choose to end the marriage fairly quickly. I just don’t see how she could manage her health and continue to be in this kind of mindset for any length of time. That’s not fair to you, and I know it, but you have an unusual case.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 2:27 AM, Monday, September 5th]

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3500   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8753918
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 5:48 AM on Monday, September 5th, 2022

This^^ what Cooley said.

MS is greatly exacerbated by stress and I can’t imagine a greater stressor than this.

This is a sticky situation. On one side you have a greatly traumatized BS with dire needs, and on the other side you have a WS with a progressively debilitating disease with needs.

In a conventional reconciliation the WS becomes a caregiver to the BS nursing their traumatized spouse back to health as they both also simultaneously work to rehabilitate themselves and eventually the marriage. This takes a tremendous amount of work, independent work and teamwork, with the WS initially doing the heavy lifting.

In this situation, you have a BS who may, MAY at some point, become the sole caregiver as the WS becomes progressively physically and neurologically debilitated and unable to care for the BS or work on themselves or the marriage. The R may become eventually sidelined.

So, if you decide to R, your opportunity to do so may be variably fleeting depending on which of the three types of MS she has. MS progression is quite variable, in some instances it can take years.

I think you have ample time to do your due diligence but, you may have to pick your battles and ruminations a little more thoughtfully than your average BS. You may find you have to do a little more risk vs gain evaluations going forward than your average BS. You’re going to have to look out for your needs and welfare without unnecessary exacerbation/aggravation of her needs and welfare.

As I said pages ago, in this unique circumstance, you’re probably going to have to look more closely at her post affair behaviors, her actions towards R, than wasting fleeting time trying to hyper-analyze the evolution of her affair-especially if any additional findings turn out to be largely irrelevant in the scheme of things. Many of the factors contributing to her A may eventually become moot at certain points in her MS sequela.

Or, you can divorce. You have every right to. She put herself in this situation with no regard for you or her own future. Why would she burn her future sole caregiver when she has an MS diagnosis??

Because cheaters don’t put as much thought into their actions as we credit them for. They operate more impulsively than thoughtfully.

posts: 949   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 11:32 AM on Monday, September 5th, 2022

Many thanks for your insights about stress and MS/auto-immune conditions, Cooley2here and RealityBlows. I was not aware of that when I wrote my previous post. It does mean that stress has to be kept to a minimum, which is difficult in the aftermath of infidelity. A lot of what I said in my post is wrong for this set of circumstances.

PFB84, I apologise for giving inappropriate advice. I guess the best thing for now is to keep things as calm and stable at home as possible, while working with your therapist to manage your issues, and to work out what you want to do longer term.

posts: 1241   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8753938
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HarryD ( member #72423) posted at 1:12 PM on Monday, September 5th, 2022

Or is your wife so upset because she gave all of herself to her one and only soul mate and he dumped her

posts: 114   ·   registered: Dec. 30th, 2019   ·   location: NY
id 8753946
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