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My WH had his AP in his phone as a contact the name of a guy (think George instead of Georgia), with a picture of a bearded guy, different workplace, etc.
If I saw the texts it would see it was George. So she may in the phone.

I am sorry - but if he really was upset she had called, he’d have come in and told you right away, told you how he handled it, and been worried about you.
🚩. Proceed with caution.

Do you mean this street was on the way home to your house or really one street behind your place?

I keep visualizing something other than him pulling over to speak on a phone.

Maybe it's not a good idea to call her tonight until you go over what happened again with your H.

We live in a townhouse complex. You come off a busy main road and turn onto a smaller city street. From there, you can turn onto any of the private streets within the complex. He was parked on the smaller street, as if he had just turned from the main road but not reached our street yet. It's the same route we all take when driving from that direction. Him actually being on that road didn't ring any alarm bells. It's the fact that he parked there instead of going up and turning onto our street. I asked him why he didn't just keep driving home while talking. He said, "Well I figured it was better to pull over and deal with the call before coming home." Yeah. And then he should have told me the truth when I directly asked him what was going on.

I don't have any illusions that he's different than any other WS. In fact, he checks a lot of boxes in the books and articles I've read about cheaters. I've also realized that my reactions and expectations are not out of the ordinary either. I know that he is one very messed up individual. I always knew that, but I didn't realize just how messed up until D-Day and everything I've learned since then. He came clean about a lot of stuff that happened years ago that I never knew about. It's all quite alarming that he was doing these things and I was so blind to them.

He's suddenly woken up and found himself to be 60-years old and on the verge of losing his wife, the respect of his adult kids, his family, his home and everything else we've worked for. I do believe that he wants to change. I also firmly believe that he doesn't know how. I have been setting very clear boundaries and expectations, including absolutely NC with the AP and full disclosure about everything. And he's failed that already. I gave him a deadline to find a therapist by next Friday. He really wants an in-person therapist, but those are very hard to find around here. Virtual therapists are very easy to schedule with and he's agreed to go that route if his insurance company can't come up with an in-person option (they are currently working on it). I had my first meeting with an online therapist yesterday and she said, "I don't like to diagnose people I haven't met, but it sounds like he might have a sex addiction." We delved into that online yesterday and he checked 11 of the 12 boxes on a sex addict self-assessment. I know we have a long road. My eyes are wide open. It's just really difficult.

The OW may still show up where your Husband is. When you engage in your conversation with her, I'd make it clear she's not welcome. If she defies your wishes, your Husband may need to step down. Just one of the consequences because of his actions. Best of luck to you!

2 ideas to consider to try to verify the work phone contact:

On his work phone, type in her phone number (not her name) to see if it comes up under a different contact name.
This idea because of what BarelyBreathing said:

My WH had his AP in his phone as a contact the name of a guy (think George instead of Georgia), with a picture of a bearded guy, different workplace, etc.
If I saw the texts it would see it was George. So she may in the phone

Also, is it at all possible to access the records/bill for his work phone? Doing so should show all calls incoming and outgoing and the length of time on each call.
If this is a company phone, can he request a record of his own work phone and bring home or email you the record to verify his story?

Just some thoughts to suss out the truth.

The OW may still show up where your Husband is. When you engage in your conversation with her, I'd make it clear she's not welcome. If she defies your wishes, your Husband may need to step down. Just one of the consequences because of his actions. Best of luck to you!

WH called her with me sitting right there. He had her on speaker so I could hear the conversation. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) we got her voicemail. He said something to the effect of, "If I wasn't clear before, I'm making it clear now. You are not to contact me again. Do not call me. I've blocked your number on my phones. You're blocked on my email and Facebook. Stay away from the theater. There's no reason for you to be there. If, for some reason, you get through to me, I will immediately hang up. If we are ever in the same place, I will not talk to you. I will walk the other way. It may be awkward, but this is the way it has to be. This is me talking. It's not something my wife told me to do. It's all coming from me. It's over. Don't contact me again."

I kind of wish we got her on the phone so I could hear her response. But it's probably better that he laid down the law in his own words. After that, he came to me and said, "This might sound weird, but somehow I feel lighter, like a burden has been lifted." I know several people on here have said they think the A has still been going on. I kind of don't think so. Besides her calling last night, I don't have any proof that they've talked. He's been pretty transparent with his phone and laptop, besides not blocking her on his work phone. She is blocked on it now.

I need to move on from this, but with caution. He knows he's hanging by a thread. As I said before, my eyes are wide open.

I emailed her twice about boundaries and she never bothered to reply

.

He won't protect the M, but you think SHE should???? Why exactly? It's his marriage to protect, and he doesn't want to.

This is me talking. It's not something my wife told me to do.

But it is.

WH called her with me sitting right there.

You are doing all the work to try to control this, while he does nothing.

Your anger at him is not a consequence. Your anger is upsetting to you, but for him it is something to tolerate until you get over it. So many BS make this fundamental mistake as they try to control the outcome. You are unwilling to put all of the responsibility and consequences on him because it may push him back to her or he may not do the work and you lose the M. But your WS watches your anger and misery and KNOWS you have not drawn any hard boundary ("stay at your mother's" or "tell your boss what happened" or "sleep in the basement until further notice") so they wait you out.

"God, when will she get over this problematic anger? My BS is such a drama queen!" Ws says in head.

I made this same critical mistake and dragged my own unhappiness (and WS's continued boundary violations) out for years!!!! Years of my wanting to save the M while he waited for my problematic anger and policing to go away.

Then I drew my hard line and filed for D. After he was done having a weeks long fit of rage while I calmly got my ducks in a row (shoe on other foot--"who is angry now, asshole?") We stayed ihs while he worked on himself. THAT'S when I got control--when I stopped caring more about my M than my personal dignity.

I think your methods will continue to hurt you. I'm sorry. You have to be willing to lose the M to save it. You can't nice them back or control them like children; neither works.

What you should have said is, "You answered the phone? And talked to her? Stop the story right there. The rest doesn't matter. You obviously don't care how your conversatio humiliates me to my core and makes me the laughing stock of our reconciliation. Fix yourself a bed on the couch until we can find you some other place to stay. I will find an attorney this week and you should do the same. I'm so disappointed in you."

The. End.

Who is gonna cry now? Beg now? Do the work now? Record an NC voicemail now? Read Not Just Friends now? Get out of the theater group now?

Stand up for yourself by walking away when he humiliates you or you'll only make it worse.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:43 AM, Saturday, May 21st]

His actions do not match his words. 🚩🚩🚩

He spoke to her 🚩

He pulled over and took much longer to complete his chore (gas station) b/c he was talking to her for quite some time. 🚩

He deleted the call 🚩

He had no intention of telling you about the call 🚩

BTDT.

My H "ended" his affair. But was still in the affair fog (Google that term). Then the OW called him six weeks later and 💥- affair re-started.

So we then had dday2 5 months later from dday1

Here’s the difference. A month after dday2 the OW emailed him "for closure" and looking to "remain friends". As soon as her email was received he immediately came to me, showed me and did not respond. He never responded to her attempt to contact him.

See the difference? That’s how I knew the affair was over.

That voicemail message your H left the OW - I’m suspicious. Just b/c he said it doesn’t mean he’s committed to it. He could have told the OW on the prior call that he may be forced to say things to her b/c of you, so please don’t believe it.

I lived your exact situation. I hope for your sake your H is not doing the same thing my H did.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:07 PM, Saturday, May 21st]

That voicemail message your H left the OW - I’m suspicious. Just b/c he said it doesn’t mean he’s committed to it. He could have told the OW on the prior call that he may be forced to say things to her b/c of you, so please don’t believe it.

I don’t want to project and cause extra anxiety but my WH did this twice. Once by phone and once by text. Both conversations were very stern "don’t call/email again, do not ever engage with me, I’m working to fix my marriage" blah blah blah.

Both times they were actually still in contact and ow told him at work the next day "I knew you were MADE to do that".

We judge ow (and people) by our own standards. When my WH sent that stern text, I was 100% they couldn’t be in contact because what woman would accept to receive such a text and continue talking to him?

However we forget that these are people that are willing to go to extra length to gaslight and lie to save their asses, the ow were already willing to hide and have sex in hidden places with married men. I actually suspect, no, I’m convinced, the ow in my case was getting a kick out of knowing she’s participating in actively deceiving me forming a team with WH against me.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 11:29 AM, Saturday, May 21st]

I agree with Luna10 about the Ws and AP getting a kick out of sneaking around and deceiving the BS. I listened to phone call between my ex and his AP recorded in VAR and boy did she laugh a hyena laugh when she said something like "your family doesn’t know about me haha how fun is all this? "

They know exactly what they are doing

They are not innocent

They scheme and lie

As Want2behappy says "they are co-conspirators"

It’s them against the BS

So proceed with caution

I know your heart wants to believe your husband but there are so many loose ends and red flags

[This message edited by DailyGratitude at 2:25 PM, Saturday, May 21st]

I remember a story here where the BS and WS left the OW a no contact voicemail together. Then a couple hours later the WS secretly called the OW and apologized. "She made me say those things." The BS felt like such a fool even having him make the call in the first place.

It happens.

He has to want R when you are not around.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:29 PM, Saturday, May 21st]

As a WW, I would have to say I feel that he is testing you. He wants to know if you are monitoring his whereabouts. He wants to know how much you will question him, what types of questions you will ask, and how you will respond. As soon as he realized who it was, he should have hung up, drove home and told you. About a week after my BH found this site, we had DDAY 2. On DDAY 1 I had given him a story I had pieced together based on his confrontation. I minimized it for almost a year, thinking he would eventually get over it. My affair did end after DDAY 1, but I was simply trying to wait out my BH and let time heal him. Once he called OBS, that changed everything. He got answers, we talked about NC and how important it was. Any contact with AP had to be shared, upsetting or not. 2 days after DDAY 2- the AP tried to contact me at my office. I did not need a contact list to tell me it was him, I recognized the number. He attempted to call 13 times in a matter of 20 minutes. I did not answer. I took a photo of the missed call log and sent it to my BH. 6 months later I left my job. On my last day, I was at my desk with a few other coworkers. AP walked up to my desk as I was seated and stood about 2 feet from me. He said it had been nice knowing and working with me and he wished me the best of luck. The entire time he spoke, I stare straight at my computer screen and shook my head. I did not say a word. He said take care and walked away. I immediately texted my BH and told him. Your WH should not be engaging in any conversations with his AP. He needs to respect you. He needs to accept that if she calls and you get angry- that is his doing. He brought her into your lives. He needs to be the one to drive her out. His panic reaction should not be that it will upset you and he has to hide it, but a reaction that shows he is upset that she called. Not happily bouncing in to try to hide it from you. I hope that improves for you.

Agree with a PP...get your hands on that bill and see how long the phone call was. I'm betting it was a 20 or 30 minute conversation, and nothing like he described.

If he didn't recognize the number, why didn't he let it go to voicemail? It sounds like he would have been home in 5 minutes. If it was his boss and important to answer, the number would be in his contacts.

What boundaries have you set to consider R?

Mine included no inappropriate emotional or physical contact with anybody except me - which was my straight to D boundary. He had to tell me about any time AP tried to contact him, which he did.

One of my boundaries was that he couldn't be alone with anther female, with certain exceptions. He didn't do this, and it led to D.

I filed for D the week before our 34th anniversary. He was never going to be a safe partner, and I was done with the M.

How does she know that he was signing up for IC and that you were looking for counselors?

Being transparent with his phone means absolutely nothing. He proved that to you with this call. Had you not checked,you wouldnt have known. He clearly wasn't going to tell you,and he had deleted the evidence. He only confessed because you already knew.

I strongly suggest a polygraph. You are speaking to seasoned BS here, who have stayed on this site to help people like you. You are getting the benefit of our hard earned wisdom. Please listen.

I've read all your posts. You desperately want to rugsweep. You want to chalk this up to a mistake,and are trying very hard to pretend things are ok. And we ALL get that. Most of us did just that. It won't work.

He should not even be a member of that theater. You don't want to take that from him,because it means a lot to him. But the OW can just show up anytime. He had his affair there. It is so extremely selfish of him to even consider returning. He expects you to just eat that shit. And you are! STOP. No more theater. Polygraph. Hold him accountable. Yes, the OW was horrible. HE IMVITED HER IN. This is HIS fault. Stop contacting her. There is no way she believes anything he said in that voicemail. Because he happily took her call. He came home "happily bouncing." He enjoyed hearing from her.

You don't believe it's underground, because the pain that would cause,would be worse than what you've already felt. But you need to start investigating. Put a var in his car. You will know within a few a days.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:21 PM, Saturday, May 21st]

It seemed like the gas station was taking a long time, so I pulled up the "find my friends" app to see if he was still there. Nope. He was sitting in his car one street over from us. I continued to watch the app and he sat there for at least 5 minutes

This is solid proof that the conversation he claims he had with her is bullshit. What he said would have taken less than 90 seconds. He was taking so long you checked the app. So he was speaking to her for a lot longer than that small conversation.

He's still lying.

Your husband knew there was to be no contact.

She called him, he picked up bc he didn't recognize the number. Fine. The minute he heard her voice, he should have hung up the phone and called you immediately.

My WH never answered the phone unless he knew who it was and anyone who was really trying to reach him would leave a message.

Your husband broke no contact. He tried to cover it up by deleting the call. If you didn't have the tracking on his phone, you would never have known.

He was gone too long? The conversation with OW was probably much longer than he is willing to admit.

BTW, it's your husband's responsibility to keep NC not the OW.

My gut tells me he picked up because he knew it was her. Or even worse, he was the one who called. It is a savvy WS trick to use household errands as a cover for phone calls or meet ups. That's Cheater Handbook stuff.

I feel terrible for you, and I DON'T think things are hopeless. I do, however, feel that hope is a fairly dysfunctional word around here. It gets in the way of self-protection.

If you can care more about your own self and your dignity instead of preserving the M, then I have hope for your reconciliation. If you cannot do that, my hope for you two dwindles considerably. It's counterintuitive, I know.

"Give up on my M and accept D? Then my WS might do everything to keep me? But how does that make any sense???"

The cure for complacency is loss.

Time for tough actions:

~Put a secret VAR in his car.

~Set up a polygraph (whether it yields accurate results or not, it shows you aren't messing around).

~Put your consequences firmly in place. ("If you fail, blah blah blah. Lawyer or whatever. If I find out there has been continued contact, your things will be put into the basement where you will stay until you find your own place.")

Last thing: how/why would he be able to drive a street over, park, and talk if this was a random, unexpected, and short convo?! The facts contradict. He went somewhere to privately chat.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:51 PM, Saturday, May 21st]

OP once my WH started TRULY doing everything he could to save our marriage (once he actually believed it was all lost, go figure) I could see a huge difference to what he previously defined as doing the work and what doing the work actually meant.

On the subject of no contact this is what true transparency looked like: as his phone is a work phone, he got in contact with the person managing the account and asked them to regularly provide him with the call records (incoming and outgoing). He sent those regularly to me for a while although I only checked the first ones because I do have a life. He only has one phone, the work one. He never answered no called ID calls or numbers he didn’t recognise for a while. I once told him I found it triggering (in the first year or so) because my brain was forming a scenario where ow called him and he just wasn’t answering so that she knows I was around. Since I told him that he answers calls from unrecognised numbers by saying hello and putting them immediately on speaker.

We are 5 years out and he still does that although I’m not interested, I don’t trigger anymore and sometimes I find it annoying.

What I’m saying is that you have nothing to work with until your WH is recognising by himself that no contact with the ow ever is beneficial to him and his marriage. Until he himself sees the light. Until then he’s just trying to satisfy minimum requirements from you but at the same time not understanding why these requirements exist. He sees it as punishment not as a true requirement of reconciliation.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 10:29 PM, Saturday, May 21st]