FireandWater (original poster member #80084) posted at 3:30 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
D-Day was March 11. He said he desperately wanted to R. He said he would literally do anything to change and become the husband I've always wanted and needed. We were making some small amounts of progress. I believed he was finally disgusted enough with himself to do the work. He's been working on finding a therapist (insurance and waiting lists have slowed the process, but he's been trying).
Last night, he went to volunteer at a theater event. He called on his way home to say he was stopping for gas. We had left things in a good place when he left. I was actually looking forward to him coming home. After he called, I waited awhile. It seemed like the gas station was taking a long time, so I pulled up the "find my friends" app to see if he was still there. Nope. He was sitting in his car one street over from us. I continued to watch the app and he sat there for at least 5 minutes. It was probably longer before I clicked into the app.
So he finally drove the rest of the way home and happily came bouncing in. I asked why he was sitting in his car on another street? He said, "Oh, someone from the theater called so I pulled over to talk." I said, "Really? Why? You have a speaker phone in your car. Why did you have to pull over?" He said, "Um, I didn't know if she was going to ask me to come back to the theater so I stopped driving." I said, "OK, let me see the recent call log on your phone.” He stopped dead in his tracks and reluctantly pulled it up. His last call was a "scam likely" call from hours before.
I said tell me the truth! He said OK, the AP had called on his work phone. She used to volunteer at the theater when they were having their fling. She got an email asking for volunteers and she wanted to know if it was OK for her to sign up if she didn't see his name on the list on a particular night. He told her no, he's the head of the committee and his name won't always necessarily be there. He could show up on random nights. Plus, I would be there some nights and he didn't want me to hear from anyone else that you had been around.
So she said, OK, but can we just talk for a minute? Have you started therapy yet? How are things with your wife? He told her he couldn't talk about that. She said, but don't you even care how I'm doing? Come on, let's just talk for a minute. He said we can't talk about that, please don't call me again. And he hung up.
If he had told me she called and reiterated the entire conversation, I wouldn't have been mad at him (her, yes, but not him). He committed to telling me if she ever tried to contact him. He wrote me a whole commitment letter in which he promised to do just that. But the first test comes along and he freezes up and goes right into yet another lie. I am beyond hurt and angry. I don't know what to do next. I don't want to throw away my whole life and my entire marriage for this. Should I chalk this up to a mistake on his part? A misstep in what is going to be a long process? Or do I see the writing on the wall now?
[This message edited by FireandWater at 3:58 PM, Friday, May 20th]
Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:03 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
So he lied about where he was, who he spoke with and for how long but you do believe that is an accurate description of their conversation.
I’m trying to think what I would do… I think I’d call back the AP from his phone (to ensure she answers) put her on speaker and ask her why she called my husband. It may give you a different insight into what went on. Although the general advice is not to get in touch with the ow, I don’t think I’d be able to take what he said at face value given that he lied about where he was and who he was talking to until you ask to see the call log.
I’m sure other posters will give you more productive advice.
ETA: not only did he lie but he obviously thinks is ok to still engage with the AP even though “he’ll do anything to fix things”.
[This message edited by Luna10 at 4:06 PM, Friday, May 20th]
Dday - 27th September 2017
RangerS ( member #79516) posted at 4:10 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
If he won't quit lying to you, I don't see much hope. You don't need to end the marriage over this but he needs to face a substantial consequence. I don't know your situation or what is possible, but something like having him leave the house for a week or at a minimum, sleeping separately for a while. He needs to be told clearly that this is only a taste of what will happen if he ever lies again.
Ariopolis ( member #75786) posted at 4:38 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
and happily came bouncing in.
Something put him in a good mood.
He called on his way home to say he was stopping for gas.
Check the gas gauge too.
Sofarsogood ( member #71991) posted at 4:52 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
This is a tough one. It's so hard to even contemplate losing everything you've invested in your relationship for so many years however..... If you let this go, he'll push boundaries again because he knows you'll let it slide. The ball is in your court, and only you know if this is a forgivable offense. Do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering if you can trust him? I hope you realise you deserve better.
Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 5:16 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
I’ve just read your story, the first post on this forum. I don’t think this affair ended, it just went underground. Your WH was telling you how he can’t let her down, she’s grieving, and kept talking to her. I’m sorry OP.
Have you informed the OBS?
Dday - 27th September 2017
whatisloveanyway ( member #66450) posted at 5:49 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
I don't think he is being honest with you because his stories are a pile of crap, even if any of it is true, he broke his word and promises again and you are not safe in your marriage. He is acting the same way mine did when the A went underground, and the only explanation I ever got was that the OW was crying and grieving the end of their "relationship" as if that is a valid excuse to keep lying and cheating while promising me the world. He just showed you who he is again. He has zero credibility.
Don't be me and still be with him years downstream wondering why her tears were more important than mine. Why none of his promises to me mattered, why he would continue to engage in a dead end relationship at the expense of his marriage. I still have no answers, except what I would do differently if I had a do over - Go stone cold nuclear at the first lie post discovery. Accept zero bullshit from him. Make him treat me and our marriage with respect and intention or get out. I hope you find more strength than I did.
BW: 62 WH: 62 Both 57 on Dday, M 35 years, 2 grown kids. WH had 9 year A with MOW, 7 month false R, multiple DDays, years of trickle truth.
I got rid of her with one email. Reconciling, but the lies have piled up. Trying one more time, again.
Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 6:00 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
He said OK, the AP had called on his work phone.
Did you verify on his work phone that it was an incoming call at the time he stated? Did the call length seem right for the conversation he described? Did you check the gas gauge?
Failing to properly disclose that she called is one problem, but it's possible that the gas station was an excuse and he pulled over to call her.
If he can't give you full transparency on his work phone that's a problem.
He's probably going to have to resign from this theater group unless she does. Otherwise it's going to provide endless excuses for contact.
Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled
HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:14 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
This was no mistake. He chose to answer the phone. He chose to lie.
Had you not tracked him,you wouldn't know now.
There is no way you should believe that was the exact conversation,or that this is the only time he has spoken to her.
If he had told me she called and reiterated the entire conversation, I wouldn't have been mad at him (her, yes, but not him)
NC means NO contact. Absolutely you should be mad at him. It is not her responsibility to keep him to the boundaries the two of you supposedly set in your marriage. That's ALL him. She could try to contact him 100 times. It is his responsibility to you that he not speak to her AT ALL.
Since he had his affair with her,at the theater,a consequence for him should be no more theatre.
I think there's way more going on than you know about.
He is not doing the work. There's a lot more than just going to IC involved in that work. He is failing. Actively.
I've just read your posts. I also believe the affair has gone underground.
[This message edited by HellFire at 6:22 PM, Friday, May 20th]
Charity411 ( member #41033) posted at 7:44 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
There are a lot of lies in this scenario. None of it adds up in my opinion. They are no longer co workers. She is no longer involved in the theatre groups according to him. So what possible reason would she have to call him on his work phone, and why would he answer it? Even if he didn't recognize where the call was coming from, the first words out of her mouth would have told him who it was and he could have said GOODBYE! and hung up. That's what no contact is.
He lied about why he was sitting there a street away, lied about who called him, lied about what phone he was using and then when forced to come clean he made up a preposterous story about why OW was calling him. You've indicated in the past that he's involved in two theatre groups both as an actor and an administrator. If you are going to believe his account of their call, you have to believe that an email got sent from a theatre group he helps administrate asking her to volunteer. That's problematic if it's true, and even more problematic if he made that part of their conversation up. It screams that he's still covering up. He had to really think about what to tell you. What his description of the call was meant to do was make you believe they were both doing the right thing, her by asking and him by saying no to volunteering, so you would pay less attention that she called him at night on his work phone, he pulled over to take the call and he lied about it. And it almost worked given the quote below.
If he had told me she called and reiterated the entire conversation, I wouldn't have been mad at him (her, yes, but not him).
Hellfire is right. You should absolutely be mad at him, not just her no matter what. He should not have been having a conversation with her in the first place, period. Conversations require two people. The idea that he was a victim in this because she called him is ridiculous. What would make you willing to forgive him if he had just told you about the conversation he wasn't supposed to having?
You are in a tough spot here. This OW is clearly making every attempt to stay in his life. Nothing you or anyone else says to her is going to make her stop. If she was capable of being reasoned with, she would have stopped contacting him by now. She isn't your issue, your WH is. This was not a mistake and if you let his actions here slide the writing on the wall you are showing him is that he has no reason to stop.
BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 8:40 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
Speaking as a wayward, I would bet a week's pay that the conversation was much friendlier and more considerate of the OW than the version you're getting. He believes she's suffering and needs to be let down gently. It's what he "owes" her to make up for the betrayal of staying married. You're still an asset to be managed, not a woman with agency who can and probably should tear his life down to the ground.
He doesn't get it. At all. I can't predict whether he will get it, but it's a very poor start, lying to your face so he can handle her how he sees best.
FireandWater (original poster member #80084) posted at 9:38 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
Thanks for all the replies. I’m still processing and deciding how to deal with this. In answer to a few questions: I do know for sure that he went to the gas station. I did see him there on the tracking app. I looked at the app again because it seemed like he had been there a long time and that’s when I saw him parked on the street. I can’t see the length of the call because he had already deleted it from his call log before he came into the house. He says he allowed panic and fear to rule him, and that dropping that mindset will be a process. Ok whatever. I know that he did not include her on the volunteer email for his committee. I was on that email and he specifically pointed out that he had left her off. The house manager took it upon herself to send out her own plea for volunteers and she included the AP on it, obviously not knowing why WH excluded her from his. I do believe this course of events. The AP should have simply replied that she was not available, but she decided to call WH instead.
She has been blocked from his personal phone, email, Facebook, etc. He says he forgot he ever gave her his work phone number. She was not in the contacts (I checked). He said he would have blocked her if he realized she had the number. Since she wasn’t in the contacts, her number came up but not her name. He answered it while driving thinking it was probably a co-worker about some plan for the next day. Now his obvious mistake was not hanging up the second he heard her voice. He says she started with, "Don’t hang up this is just a logistical question. Then she explained that she received an email from the house manager and it sounded like they were desperate and could she sign up on days where she didn’t see his name. He said no, please don’t and then she tried to engage him in further, more personal conversation. Now if this was all true and he immediately hung up, I wouldn’t be so upset. Even if he answered the volunteer question, hung up and told me right away, fine. But the lie to my direct question is where I’m stuck.
I decided that he will be temporarily unblocking her number tonight so we can give her a call. Together, we will reiterate what No Contact means. We will tell her if she really feels she needs to get in touch with us, she can email me. She has my address. I emailed her twice about boundaries and she never bothered to reply. I told him this would be happening tonight and he said, "That’s fair." We’ll see how this goes.
Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 10:00 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
Another wayward here. You’re only a few months from d-day. If your WS is anything like the majority of us waywards, he is still lying. He lied while having the affair and even with the best intentions (although I’m not sure his intentions are for the best yet) after a few months we are usually still in a world of denials and minimising. He is still in the affair, maybe not physically, but emotionally. Here we have the problem…Will he ever be out of the affair? How long do you give him to pull his head out of his ass? Will he stop telling lies? Is the affair still going on? These and others are questions I cannot answer. He needs help, professional help. There is little or no chance of him becoming safe without counselling.
I doubt the call went the way WS says, even if it did, I’m sure he was feeling something for the AP. As stated above, NC means NO CONTACT AT ALL….NEVER! We always recommend changing jobs if the affair started at work. WS needs to break contact with the theatre. Not only is this an opportunity for the affair to continue or for there to be "accidental" contact, but this must be a huge trigger for you. At this time he cannot be trusted and this has been proven by his actions. Is this a deal breaker? That’s for you to decide. I will add that most if not all waywards screw up after d-day. Unacceptable, yes, but true. Tell him you’re angry and upset by this laters betrayal. I assume you’re back to day one and any good work he has done is written off. Make it clear that you cannot accept this again. My BS and I have a 24 hour rule. If I lie, I have 24 hours to come clean. While BS will be upset still, not coming clean is likely to be a deal breaker.
Does WS post on here? What are your thoughts on him doing so?
WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, Jan 21 and 2022
ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 10:10 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
Mine tried the "let her down gently" maneuver too. He'd done a bunch of future-faking and he felt bad because the OW had blown up her life, so confident was she that she has "won" her prize that she told on herself and her husband immediately filed for divorce. So, my WH felt like shit about that which I believe.. to an extent. But I also believe that there was a part of him which just couldn't stand the idea of the OW being mad at him; that part which craves approval and admiration. It's not just about guilt. It would be nice if we were dealing with such a kind and sensitive individual, right? But cheating is more selfish than that, and there's typically some internal ugliness driving it.
At any rate, I basically just pulled him over and asked if he wanted to be "all in" or "all out" of our marriage. I wasn't going to play. I wanted a decision right there and right then and if he wasn't ready to give me one, I'd make that decision for him. I wasn't going to tolerate any further encroachments by the OW and I certainly wasn't going to tolerate any more contact on his part. He decided he was "all in" and ghosted her from that moment on. And I know he did too because even though she was blocked on everything at home, I found her unanswered overtures online where she was trying to get his attention every couple of months for more than a year.
I do think it's typical for WS's to push the boundaries. The twisted thinking and lack of integrity which allows this kind of perfidy doesn't resolve overnight. But mine must've seen blood in my eye because he stopped right there and then. I meant what I said. My instinct at dday had been to divorce and giving him a chance had been a stretch for me. Now, it had become two chances and I was DONE. He knew it too. I don't know how. Maybe it was just living together for more than three decades, I dunno.
BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7
No one can make you into a liar but you.
BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 10:31 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
I also believe that there was a part of him which just couldn't stand the idea of the OW being mad at him; that part which craves approval and admiration.
This -- and also, the suffering of the AP enhances the WS's view of our own worth. The idea that this person would do anything to have us makes us feel powerful and desirable. We're grateful for that feeling and benevolent towards the person who sacrificed themselves on the altar of our irresistibility.
As long we see ourselves as the prize, we can't get in the proper mindset for R.
Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 10:40 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
So, my WH felt like shit about that which I believe.. to an extent. But I also believe that there was a part of him which just couldn't stand the idea of the OW being mad at him; that part which craves approval and admiration.
Yup that was my WH too.
OP I know you want to believe your WH and I also know you think your WH is different, not like any of the WSes we talk about. I’ve been there too. Sadly most WHes play by the same book even though they themselves believe they’re not like all the other cheaters.
In my case my WH blocked ow on everything but he had to support her during working hours because… well the above. Losing ow’s admiration and not being her Knight in shiny armour was not part of the plan. He was too hooked on all that validation and he said so himself once his head came out of his backside. It came to bite him back in the backside when he realised that it meant it kept the ow hopeful of our marriage demise but she suddenly lost patience and started to give him ultimatums. I won’t go into all the details but it turned pretty ugly including WH turning suicidal and crying his eyes out whilst I had no clue what was going on. So one day he came home and confessed to everything.
In the meantime I was getting advice here on SI, just like you and each time I didn’t hear what I expected to hear I made excuses for him, validated what I perceived as efforts (because he was doing some good work to try and quiet my senses), I thought nobody knows my WH and he’s different than what they described.
It’s the normal process and so sad to witness once you’ve been through it yourself, I do hope that you’ll get clarity and true honesty soon.
Dday - 27th September 2017
GiveTimeTime ( member #45868) posted at 11:12 PM on Friday, May 20th, 2022
You busted him, and he blatantly lied to your face. End of story.
Is this OK with you?
Is being the marriage police for the rest of your life OK with you? Do you really, really want to spend the rest of your life watching a small dot on your phone to make sure he’s keeping his dick dry?
I know that all sounds harsh, and it is harsh.
My ex-husband cheated on me mercilessly. Was I ready to give up 20 years of sunk costs? Did I want to have to sell the home that I loved so much? Did I want to leave the man that I loved more than anyone else in my entire life? Hell no, that’s the last thing in the world I ever wanted.
I kicked his ass out of the house on D/day but let him back in to see if we could reconcile, for all the reasons above.
He, like your husband, promised things would change. He’d give me the moon and stars, he’d spend his whole life making it up to me.
Within a week or so, I busted him in another blatant lie. That was the end. It was almost worse than the act of cheating. Maybe it was worse. Either way, I knew that a life of playing detective was not gonna work for me. I had to suck it up and do the exact opposite of what I wanted to do, because I knew I needed to do it.
Obviously, my advice is that there’s nothing to work with here. You are not me, of course, and you’ll have to figure things out for yourself, but again, ask yourself, Is this OK with you?
[This message edited by GiveTimeTime at 11:16 PM, Friday, May 20th]
Me: 50 Him: 59Married 14 years, together 19.D-day: 3/6/14Me; loving, devoted, faithful wifeHim: lying, cheating, wh0re fu€king john6/4/15 - Divorced. Done. I wasn't kidding, asshole.
Carissima ( member #66330) posted at 12:00 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022
He says he forgot he ever gave her his work phone number. She was not in the contacts (I checked). He said he would have blocked her if he realized she had the number.
I'm sorry but this is a lie. I read your older posts and in the very first one you mention your WH telling you the AP called his work phone! Your WH spoke to her then as well.
I wouldn't bet on this affair being over.
HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 12:02 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022
She knows what NC means. So does your husband. He should have hung up immediately. He didn't. He is the problem. Block her on his work phone,but don't call her. That will simply make her feel more power than she should.
What consequences has he had? He should absolutely quit the theater.
He came in,bouncing in happiness. He had just talked to her.
You have quit a few red flags waving around. Pretending otherwise does you a huge disservice.
Ariopolis ( member #75786) posted at 12:31 AM on Saturday, May 21st, 2022
He was sitting in his car one street over from us.
Do you mean this street was on the way home to your house or really one street behind your place?
I keep visualizing something other than him pulling over to speak on a phone.
Maybe it's not a good idea to call her tonight until you go over what happened again with your H.