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General :
Is my wife cheating, please advise

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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 8:45 AM on Sunday, May 8th, 2022

as I said above, the exhibition is what set me off

It’s very odd and I don’t remember reading this behavior before. There is the rare story showing up, in JFO, about master/slave relationship (or whatever they call it, somebody can correct me), where the "slave" has to do anything the "master" says.

Your gut feeling is your subconscious picking up odd patterns. Like when in IT, you’re doing a wireshark analysis and looking for "something " odd.

I think the VARs is a good idea. Test it first to make sure there’s no noise or light. The GPS should be in the car, not in her purse. VARs plus you going away for a weekend with your son is even better.

You could install a keylogger on her phone?

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1534   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8734177
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humantrampoline ( member #61458) posted at 5:43 PM on Monday, May 9th, 2022

CalicoJack ,


I WANT HONEST RESPONSES, EVEN BRUTALLY HONEST!

laugh Ok, ok. You don't need to shout at me. Just kidding. There is often talk here that by being too harsh with first-time posters, we scare or chase them off. And you're post indicated that you left another forum due to the comments given. I was trying to be as careful as possible. I didn't mean to offend.

Again, I don't think your wife will admit anything without solid proof. If she is cheating, that is. She lied to you about the curtains, and she clearly dismisses any concerns that you have. Also, if you go on forums where cheaters talk to each other, one of their first rules is to admit nothing that can't be absolutely proven. It's amazing that some of us here get confessions fairly early in the process.

I worry mostly that you will continue looking for a definitive proof that you never obtain. It happens to others here. That is why I have suggested that you consider exactly, precisely what proof that you need.

My WH's AP told him that she was an exhibitionist and then attempted to demonstrate. When he told me, I thought she was maybe trying to communicate that she was sexual uninhibited or show him that upping the risk factor would be fun. In hindsight, I find it strange. If a man had told me that he was an exhibitionist and tried to demonstrate, I would think he was a sexual deviant and creepy and get away from him as fast as possible. Maybe there's a gender difference or something? My WH said he interpreted that conversation with her, and there was more of it, as her strongly offering no-strings attached sex of any kind.

Humantrampoline (is that a Graceland reference?)

Yes, but there was a poster here who thought it was a Mexican wrestler reference, and now I sometimes like to envision myself that way.

posts: 529   ·   registered: Nov. 17th, 2017
id 8734388
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 4:34 PM on Tuesday, May 10th, 2022

Be clear on some things:
If you are determined to find infidelity then everything will sound, smell and look like infidelity. Like if you hear her venting about you on the var in the car you will think it’s because she’s cheating. If she’s talking to a male colleague on the phone you will be trying to read if her voice is happy or sexy or whatever. If she is 20 minutes late home you will think she’s meeting OM…

Instead focus on your REAL goal: Focus on discovering the TRUTH.

This is a basic that is repeated repeatedly during investigative training: Investigate for the truth rather than a foregone conclusion.

Be aware that we are hammers and you are showing us stuff we WANT to see as nails.
The smelly panties? Yes – maybe semen from OM, but maybe a yeast infection, maybe really bad personal hygiene, maybe an "accident" due to miscalculating a bathroom break. If anything, then logic would point away from infidelity because a very common behavior is a "wall" between home-life and affair. That "wall" is often seen in changing clothes/underwear before coming home, an added layer of personal cleanliness to avoid bringing home strange smells (be it of sex or OM cologne) and so on.

Cleaning underwear by hand? My wife does that occasionally. Sometimes because it’s delicate, sometimes because she needs to use it soon. In other words: it’s not proof of anything other or more than she’s cleaning underwear. In fact, IMHO it would be more suspect if she came home, changed pants (or pulled dirty ones out of her purse) and started a wash-cycle with only that item.

If she’s having an affair with the building crew/foreman, then why want to cover the window? Why hide the view from OM if he’s already in her bed?
If she’s offering a daily 7:30 strip-show, then how about beating her to it? Why not be there at 7:25 and pull back the curtains? If the crew is lined up with popcorn waiting for a show… tells you a lot.


To successfully investigate you need a very delicate balance of monitoring while making her feel safe that you are NOT monitoring. You need to resist the temptation of questioning her about where she is, why and so on. She needs to feel safe in doing what she is doing.
It’s HIGHLY unlikely that you will catch her directly using a VAR or GPS. What these tools can do is help you establish a pattern. Like if you monitor her vehicle and you see that she stops for an hour outside a certain place on the days you notice she’s taking a gym-bag or the skimpy lingerie or the days she comes home and directly takes a shower… That in turn allows you to be located outside that place when you think she might be going there.

Finally: Three important points:

If your marriage is rocky and you are contemplating divorce anyway then why go through this?
You only need proof to the level YOU are convinced.
Look for the TRUTH and not for INFIDELITY. Maybe the truth is infidelity, but maybe not.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10601   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8734530
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 4:08 AM on Wednesday, May 11th, 2022

Stop playing detective and actually hire one. The time and effort you have put into finding a smoking gun is unsustainable; in fact, high levels of anxiety coupled with exhaustion could lead you to having a nervous breakdown. PIs are expensive, but they are trained, experienced professionals who could find out more information in a week than you could dig up in a year. How much is your sanity and peace of mind worth to you?

I don't see the value of a polygraph at this point in time. As any law enforcement agent will tell you, polygraphs aren't "lie detectors"; they are an interrogation tool used to heighten suspects' nervousness and fear so they are more likely to confess. In order for a polygraph to be optimally used, the questions need to be carefully worded and very specific; you simply don't have enough information to base your questions upon. Regardless, I don't think that you would feel better even if she did pass the polygraph. Most likely, you would question the accuracy of the results or second-guess yourself about whether the right questions were asked. That would just bring you back to square 1.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:15 AM, Wednesday, May 11th]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 737   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8734635
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pureheartkit ( member #62345) posted at 5:00 AM on Wednesday, May 11th, 2022

Oh you have to be exhausted. She's been gaslighting you. Even if she's not cheating she's acting really weird. The window shows.....and you're in the room...who does that. Too many flags for me. Don't bother to get her to tell you what's really going on because she never will. She thinks she can do anything say anything. Save your sanity and quit asking for the truth. If she wasn't handwashing her stuff before.....all the new behaviors....I brushed away so many red alerts, believed the craziest lies before I found real evidence. Even then he only admits to where the proof was. Lies and lies about all the rest. Is this the way you want to go on? She's messing with you. It's not right.

Thank you everyone for your wisdom and healing.

posts: 2325   ·   registered: Jan. 19th, 2018
id 8734639
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 7:23 AM on Wednesday, May 11th, 2022

Be aware that we are hammers and you are showing us stuff we WANT to see as nails.

While there's some truth to this, I think it's actually a real benefit for a potential BS.

From everything I've experienced and read, BSs almost always arrive here still desperately wanting to believe that what they suspect isn't true. They come here having ignored and dismissed red flags for months, maybe years. They come here and they point out the nail and ask, "Is that a nail or do you think it could be a screw?" And we say, "Well, there's screwing going on but that is definitely a nail."

Stories that turn out to be just overly jealous or suspicious spouses are much less common here than stories where a tiny clue leads to discovery of serial cheating or sex addiction. That's the truth of it.

Do we WANT to see nails or have we just been cursed with the knowledge that nails are everywhere and you only have to open your eyes to see them?

CalicoJack, you asked for the harsh truth. I'm sorry but your WW is a serial cheater. She cheated with you on and off and probably with others until it finally ended her first marriage. She's a cheater who never saw anything wrong with what she did and never had any reason to do any work to understand exactly what is broken in her head to make her do those things. She's smart and she has years of practice hiding her As. All that stuff she told you about her unhappy marriage and NPD husband? That's you now.

So you're married to a cheater who demands secrecy in her communications, has poor boundaries, and appears to be taking active counter-measures to make sure you can't figure out what she is up to. Regardless of anything else, I would tell her that is unacceptable and demand complete transparency from here on out. Full phone access, full GPS tracking. If she refuses then I don't see how your relationship can be tenable.

What she may be doing is driving to the store, shutting off her phone and then walking over to the hotel. She may have one partner there, or possibly multiple given her free shows. Maybe if you're lucky your VAR will catch it if she calls the OP before she shuts her phone off and walks over.

Put up some privacy film on the windows as she said. She really doesn't want you to but she probably saw that you caught her in a peep show and then decided to lean into it like it was innocent. Put up a motion triggered camera to capture her other potential peep show locations. Try to make the positioning look like security. Honestly, you probably need some security under the circumstances. Your wife is playing with fire even if she's not doing anything but peep shows to a bunch of construction workers.

If you can't get anything on VAR then you'll probably have to wait her to go to the store near the hotel, park out of sight and wait to see where she comes from when she returns to the car. While you're at it you could dream up an excuse to call and/or text while she's there to see if she answers.

Given the fact that your wife seems to be using counter-measures, I would suggest a PI if you can afford one but that's problematic given that your wife controls the finances.

Hoping you can finally get the truth soon. Best of luck.

Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

posts: 381   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8734652
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 1:11 PM on Wednesday, May 11th, 2022

The one thing I learned from my H’s affairs is this; anything can be fixed or repaired if BOTH parties come to the table with honesty, truth, respect and a commitment to repair the damage.

I worked on a few things during my H’s last affair. Things that helped me with my kids and my H. Nothing serious or terrible but hopefully things that made me a better person.

My biggest mistake in my marriage was allowing my H to lie about his first affair, end it without admitting anything and then sweeping it under the rug.

After dday2 of affair 2 I would not let that happen. When I needed to talk about, he listened and answered questions etc. I learned from my prior mistake that things need to be addressed.

And I addressed everything during R. It was either addressed or I had no choice but to D.

His chronic lateness and MIA
His refusal to discuss things with me (issues)
His ego in thinking he was always right
Me being a doormat (my mistake)
Me refusing to stand my ground (my mistake)

We have happily reconciled. Almost 9 years. But I can tell you our marriage has changed. It will never be the same as it was prior to the affair. And I’m some ways that is a good thing.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11862   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8734665
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