SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She cheated with you. Now she's cheating on you. That's her go-to way of behaving in a relationship. You believed what she told you about her husband when you had an affair, but you didn't know him, just assumed she (a cheater) was telling you the truth. She's probably trashing you to others now, to justify her current cheating.

Her behaviors (defensiveness, put-downs, minimization) are from the classic cheater script that most of us BS's have experienced, plus the circumstantial evidence, particularly her underwear (I'm a woman and can tell you unequivocally that did not come from sex that happened two days prior) and her history of cheating, make it about a 99% chance that she is cheating on you. The weird exhibitionism is a red flag, too. Makes me wonder if the AP put her up to that, or if she wanted to show off to his friends for him. Ick.

If you still have a reasonable doubt, hire a PI. She's being pretty flagrant, so you should have proof quickly if you go that route. That evidence will be much more accurate than a polygraph (the machine can't magically detect lying- it detects anxiety, and the examiner's subjective interpretation is a big part of the results). A polygraph is primarily useful for when the affair is over and the BS wants to confirm if the WS's story about it is true. For active cheating, a PI is the best way to get real evidence, and they're less likely to accidentally break the law than you might be trying to rig audio/video recording devices, which aren't legal in every state without both parties' permission. And as others have mentioned, stop bringing it up to her until you've had her investigated.

[This message edited by morningglory at 11:49 AM, Friday, May 6th]

I would put hidden cameras (kinds that look like pens or something innocuous) in your bedroom and a few other places and put a real gps tracker on her car.

I wouldn't do that if I were you, particularly not without checking the legal ramifications in your jurisdiction. She might be your wife, but if you get caught with a camera in the bedroom that she's unaware of, you look like the bad guy and it doesn't matter what your suspicions might be. She could say whatever she wanted to about you at that point and what could you say?.. the camera is the story.

GPS trackers on cars can be problematic, but typically it's okay if it's your car. Getting caught with that won't look as anywhere near as bad as spying with a camera in the bedroom.

Very strange behavior indeed.

My take on it is that the OM is one of the construction workers.

He is bragging to his buddies that he can get your WW to put on show for them.

Your WW is also enjoying pulling the wool over your eyes right in front of you.

Overall your WW sounds like a serial cheater who has no remorse or regret.

It's also possible your WW story about her first marriage being abusive is an inversion of the truth. The real story may be more like her BH broke down from all the cheating.

I am sorry you are in this position. Being the marriage police really stinks.

You are living a life that is mentally draining, toxic, time consuming and emotionally draining.

You don’t need to prove anything. You don’t need to catch her. You don’t need to confront her. You don’t need to snoop or spy.

Sadly. Betrayed spouses think they need proof of an affair. You just don’t realize you continue to allow the cheater to retain control.

I learned from my H’s second affair that I am not required to play his game. When I confronted him on dday2 it was game changing. He no longer had any power or control over me. He could not make a decision about our future or me or the D or custody of kids etc. and he knew it.

You know your Wife is cheating. She knows you know she is cheating. That’s a fact.

You can stop playing this game of cat and mouse. You have irrefutable evidence she’s cheating. So You confront. She denies and says you are crazy.

Then what? She continues to cheat. You continue to play detective. The cycle continues.

OR you get smart. You tell her it’s time to face the music. You ask her what she is willing to do to get the marriage back on track. You tell her that the lying and disrespect and cheating cannot continue. You are here to discuss R and her commitment to the marriage.

If she calls you crazy and says she’s not cheating and doesn’t address how to move forward, you have your answer.

You then start the hard 180 and figure out your next step. You have choices.

You can D your cheating wife.

You can R with your cheating wife, but know she will continue to cheat. You accept her for who and what she is. You stop playing marriage police. You just know she’s not trustworthy.

You then heal yourself. You get some professional help to deal with being married to someone who disrespects you and your family.

But please stop playing marriage police. It will mentally beat you down. It is pointless.

And you don’t need a reason to D except that you don’t love her anymore and you just don’t want to remain married. Period. No need for future discussion.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:15 AM, Friday, May 6th]

You can R with your cheating wife, but know she will continue to cheat. You accept her for who and what she is. You stop playing marriage police. You just know she’s not trustworthy.

And know that she can infect you with any of a wide variety of STDs. Get tested.

[This message edited by morningglory at 12:27 PM, Friday, May 6th]

Hello again, once again I really appreciate all of your responses, there is a lot of food for thought. I was up half the night considering what was said in the first responses yesterday already. I will do my best to respond to everyone in order.

Let me preface this with my intentions of obtaining VARs at least 1 GPS and probably going to request a polygraph. A lot of people have mentionned all 3. I heard you all.

Bigger. I thought the hammer and nail analogy was spot on. I'm taking that into consideration with each response. I realize I have come to a place where people will be more likely to take the innocuous and see into it. Thats kind of where I am as well. That being said, smoke means fire. I agree that what I have may not be quite enough to explode my life. I suppose part of why I am here is to seek advice as to how to go about obtaining solid evidence. The truth is all I have ever wanted. I can't R or D without it. I doubt I'll find anything money related, she has all that info since she handles all our finances. Maybe I can figure a way to get my hands on it. If I do, I'm really good at sparsing data, part of what I do for a living. If something is there I'll find it. As said earlier, I'm already looking at VARs, planning on getting at least 2 but maybe more for easy switching out for charging and getting the recordings. Regarding mementos, I've searched and tried to think if anything was out of the ordinary or something new had taken a big place. I've yet to find anything significant or other. Regarding logical, that would apply more to the last time I thought she was cheating. Shower yes, but only the one time (that I know about). Checked laundry almost every day for the first few months following the panty incident. Noticed that on a few occasions they were wet from having been hand washed. I've looked in trash on a few occasions when I had a feeling something was up. Only thing I ever found that seemed suspect was several tissues stashed but I didn't see anything on them that seemed sex related so I don't know. Now that you mention the car, I had noticed a cup from KFC that was probably from the day she did the Hotel to KFC run. She seemed a little off when she said to me oh yeah I stopped at KFC the other day. Trying to play something off that didn't need to be played off. I remembered because it seemed odd the way she had said that and when I saw the hotel KFC run on her google maps history I made the connection. I know not to jump to conclusions. I'm doing my best man. Its hard sometimes.

This0is0fine - see preface

MIgander, the exhibitionism is what started me. I ignored multiple signs, and even some gut feelings before that. I don't even know what to think. Its so unlike her. The best I can figure is that she was having an affair with one of the construction workers and he put her up to it.

Humantrampoline (is that a Graceland reference?) I WANT HONEST RESPONSES, EVEN BRUTALLY HONEST! I understand I am in somthing that could be considered akin to an echo chamber, but this is the place I found (and I searched a lot) where the people seemed to best recognize signs and know how to deal with infidelity. Really what I was looking for when I found this place is advice on how to deal with a lying or stonewalling WW to elicit a confession with R as goal. There is almost nothing out there. As you may have read in some of my comments I do not want to make any final decisions without something really solid. I'm not as concerned for my well being as I am for that of my son. I want him to have a strong 2 parent family. The problem is if there is infidelity I could be doing more harm to him by staying. As much as I want to figure this out for myself, I want this for him even more. I appreciate the kind words. I have always tried to do right as best I can. I'm not perfect. At times I can be lazy, obsessive, I procrastinate, I can be dismissive and probably other things. But I really do try. There have been communication problems for years. I've tried to get her to spend more time with me and talk more openly. There have been some efforts on her part, but they never last. I think regarding the polygraph, I will make taking one a condition of my not accusing her anymore and accepting to go to therapy. We'll see how she reacts to that.

Underserving, I have a very poor sense of smell, worst of my 5 senses by far. That being said, there was a distinct odor of sex. Perhaps the sperm smell is what I associate with sex smell.

Jameson1977, MIgander has some great points. I agree. Regarding your post on the other thread, I will reply there if I get a chance.

Halftime2017 I'd really never thought of her as an exhibitionist ever. There are a couple things over the years that might have passed as slightly exhibitionist, but for the vast majority she has seemed rather modest. I KNOW she does a lot of talking with her friends in her car. She is on Whatsapp before turning the key to the ignition, then its vocal after vocal. Which she deletes unless it is uninteresting work related. I can't afford a PI for any duration beyond a couple days. I make a decent living but I'm not rich by any means. PI costs too much. If she still is having an affair, its maybe once or twice a month. I've been watching for the signs of it, next time I see one, I'll call in sick at work and follow her myself. Thing is, my car is really big. No way of being discrete with it. Haven't figured out how to do that one yet, but probably she will first drop off the boy then go to her office (she has her own private practice as a medical specialist) I can stash the car a block away and then just watch who comes in and out all day. She should only be seeing women or couples.

DoinBettr, I've been thinking about activating parental control type app on her phone. We have the same model so I can practice on mine first. I've been meaning to do that for a while, just haven't managed to get to it yet. The goo wasn't a yeast infection, I've seen those before. This was not that.

RealityBlows, yeah I hear you. I feel a lot of this is circumstantial as well. Only reason I haven't walked out yet. I'm not sure I can trust my lying eyes and gut... I started doing the DrFone once and only got a little information that I hadn't already found myself. Nothing particularly helpful. There might be more I could get from it with the full version. I almost did go that route a few months ago. What I really need is a way to open WhatsApp archives (I managed to get several). As far as socials apps goes, she is part of some specialized communities that communicate through them, both internally and externally. I can't really say more as it will narrow the field a lot and could potentially dox us. Its a very small specialized field. I can't make her get off them as its part of her work and volunteer activities. I checked for shuttering as I'm familiar with the practice. Couldn't see anything there. I've been checking her battery usage to see what apps shes on, couldn't find screen time, didn't think of checking data usage. Good idea.

ChamomilleTea, I know the trust is a big problem. Between my first D and my current W I had major trust issues that prevented me from forming strong relationships with the few women I actually did like. It didn't help that 2 of them were serial cheaters either. My current W is the first woman I have trusted in over a decade and I now worry that even that trust was misplaced. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go the Polygraph route. I've already found a place that does them near here. I'd rather not D if there is no infidelity, see above comments pertaining to my son, not to mention that I do love my W. This whole situation has been tearing at my psyche for a while. Some days I'm surprised how well I've managed to hold up. Thing is, I'm worried that I'm the one who is messed up and she is the one suffering from it. Thanks for your advice, its taken into consideration.

Ariopolis, as I said above, the exhibition is what set me off. The rest is what I was able to cobble together in the 6 months since. She really has no reason to feel constrained. I've not prevented her from doing anything or seeing anyone since we've been together. I do need to work on the self discipline. I've been trying but I have a tendency to wear my emotions on my face when they pass a threshold.

Stevesn, the cloning the phone is an amazing idea. I'll look into it.

Grubs, I'm planning on going the Polygraph as a condition for therapy route, but perhaps I will try it the other way around. And you're right, so far this is not working. I've done everything I could think of on my own before asking for help. Thats why I'm here man. Thank you. As far as her spying my phone, I honestly don't mind, I have nothing to hide.

MorningGlory, I agree with most of what you say. The only thing I would say is that she WAS being pretty flagrant. If its still going on, it is way on the down low now. She has a work function tomorrow all day, I'm going to make sure to swing by in the middle to see if she is there for real. As far as the polygraph goes, I'm probably going to do it if for nothing more than to see if she agrees to it. Then I will go from there. I am however going to wait until I have a VAR in her car and maybe in her purse if I can find a small one so I can gauge her true reactions via her conversations.

ChamomilleTea, Not planning on setting up cams anywhere. Thought about it at one point but dismissed as impractical.

Survus, I think it was one of the construction workers as well. I didn't say as much in the post as I wanted to see if others came to the same conclusion. I'd considered the possibility that her ex was the victim and not the problem, except most of what I know of him point to him being a serious asshole. I met him a few times and have heard stories from other parties.

The1stWife, I fucking hate policing my wife. I don't want to be that guy. I am extremely patient and resilient, despite that this is pushing me to my edge. Its not for her that I need to have proof that puts this beyond doubt, its not for me either. Its for my son. I do not want to make a mistake on this. I have to be certain.

I doubt I'll find anything money related, she has all that info since she handles all our finances.

She's got all the control in the marriage and now she knows she can cheat on you and you'll not say anything. Frankly, I think you are at risk for being financially abused. Do you keep your money in joint accounts? Do you have co-sign on car loans? Mortgages? Who's name is the phone plan in? You need to look into this and gain access to your information. Part of the D process is demanding financial records from both spouses. However, by that time, money is often squirreled away (literally) by the offending spouse.

I knew a story of a guy who withdrew $20/40 with grocery purchases and put the bills into a shower curtain rod in a guest bathroom. He stored away over $10k in money that way.

Get your financial ducks in a row. If you have to gain access to your $$ on a joint account without her knowing, you can set up at the branch an electronic statement to be sent to your email. Or you can get online access to joint accounts via having a log-in for yourself made. My BH and I do this- our joint account is fed by both our paychecks, we have our own personal accounts for squirreling away gift money, but we can both log in and access the joint account via our main bank log in. ALSO, normal healthy people (even with separate finances) share their accounts and inform their spouses what's going on with the cash flow. My BH can see my personal account whenever he asks- I log in and show him.

Really what I was looking for when I found this place is advice on how to deal with a lying or stonewalling WW to elicit a confession with R as goal. There is almost nothing out there.

You cannot MAKE anyone do anything. You're fighting your own instincts here. You're fighting what your gut already knows. You wanted a 2 parent intact family for your son. She didn't.

You didn't wreck your dreams. She did. The D is on her. You're asking for a lifetime of not getting the basic needs met in your marriage- exclusivity and honesty. She's not showing interest in changing. She's not showing interest in working on things. You're being gaslit and minimized and lied to actively when confronting her with solid evidence. She's deleting texts. She's showing boobs to construction workers. She's got panties hand washed to remove another man's semen from them. The only reason I ever hand wash my panties is if I got menstrual blood on them.

You've got enough info here. Confronting her would only be pointless as you've done so already. The only way to get out of infidelity at this point is to file for D. The nice thing about the D process, it' slow. If she starts making real change and does real work, you can stop at any time. Right now, she's liking life and thinks she's got the wool over your eyes. She's not going to change because there's no consequences to her actions.

Get the D going, have the papers written. Serve her. It's up to her if she wants to salvage the M at this point. Actions have consequences and D is a natural consequence of her A.

Thank you for posting your story. With all the information you’ve presented I definitely agree that no more mr nice guy was a good book to read.

I would not go with a poly at this point because your wife will no doubt accuse you of being controlling and ludicrous and will complain to her girlfriends about you snd on snd on. And, she’ll simply refuse to do it and she knows there will be no consequences by refusing.

Thus, I think that you MUST hire a PI. The evidence is strong enough to warrant a PI.

CJ,

Regarding the polygraph.....

Do you have a strong belief in them?
Are you truly willing to accept the results--specifically if she passes?

If not, I strongly advise not to do it. Even if you do accept them, I don't know if right now is the time. If I can play the devil's advocate, from her side....if she is not cheating....your lack of trust in her is most likely eroding the relationship. She has mentioned this to another. If a person is being wrongly accused of something, they will normally not tolerate it....especially as the severity of the accusation increases. If you are to 'force' a polygraph, there may be irreversible damage.

Believe me, I am not saying that she is innocent. A couple of things that you have mentioned are at least, by my definition, disturbing. As I am sure that there are behaviors of yours, in her eyes, that may be disturbing to her. This is where the difficulty in communication rears its ugly head. I think that you would benefit more by working the communication angle at this time then going the poly route. The other areas of surveillance are less extreme in my opinion, and may give you more answers. I look at a polygraph as a trust-building tool, and one that works better when trying to establish trust than rooting out more information. So, if you can, through communication, reveal to your wife that a polygraph will HELP put your mind to rest, and would appreciate her cooperation in helping you overcome this obstacle, then more power to you both. Maybe it is the catalyst that helps your marriage grow.

But, if the polygraph is approached with the belief of catching your spouse in an affair? It's hard to build off of that. The bottom line, again in my opinion, is that the polygraph SHOULD be the last instrument used on the upward trajectory of strengthening the marriage. Not using for this reason has far more negative possibilities than positive ones.

I am an advocate of polygraphs and as a former cop doubt many here have witnessed as many tests as I have.
No – now is not the time for a poly.
Polygraphs don’t really get you the truth but rather help in confirming if what you know is true. It can confirm detail a lot better than it can confirm general truths. Like "have you had an affair" is a general question that could give a non-conclusive / non reliable answer, whereas "was there a man in your hotel room at the Hilton on the 3rd of last month" can give a clearer more conclusive result. A good, reliable operator knows this and wants enough detail to test rather than general statements.

If you get the confirmation, you need so you believe she’s having an affair then and only then is the polygraph to any advantage IMHO.

IMHO the main purpose of a poly in R is to establish if you have a base to work from rather than establish the truth per se. It’s used to see if the WS has been forthright in the answers when they state they have told you everything.

I have to agree with @jb3199 on this.

VAR and GPS should be your first move. You can't afford a PI so you need to be smart if you are going to follow her. Maybe a good friend, and I mean a good friend, would support you by lending you their car or even following her.

Her actions do seem extremely suspect but do not keep confronting her, by your own admission she is very intelligent so will cover her tracks.

Good luck.

Really what I was looking for when I found this place is advice on how to deal with a lying or stonewalling WW to elicit a confession with R as goal.

I urge you to reread and take in what MIgander wrote. I'd say the same myself.

*****

You say you can't D or R without the truth. I disagree.

The truth does no more than enable R; it does nothing to guarantee it. Lack of truth, OTOH & IMO, makes D the best option.

Your W does not owe you the truth. She owes you the truth only if she wants to stay married to you.

And a poly isn't necessary if you know in your gut that she's lying.

*****

You seem to see your W as the decider. Before you evaluate her as a candidate for R, I urge you to look at yourself. What do you really want? Can you get that from her, if she gets honest? The answer may be 'no', and that's OK - it makes handling your M pretty easy.

If you do want to consider R, your W's quality as a candidate is important - but you can't R with anyone who continues to lie. And I think you believe she's lying about something.

The only thing you can do to nudge her to truth-telling is to set the boundary 'truth or D' for yourself, let her know about your boundary, and see if she steps up.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:03 PM, Friday, May 6th]

1) VARS in her car and bedroom/bathroom.
2) GPS in her car.
3) I would put one of those hidden cameras in your bedroom, If she finds it you can simply dismiss it by saying you just put it there and were testing it to be used in your office (erase/transfer the content everyday just in case), out of the hundreds and perhaps thousands of stories I have read here and other forums the few instances a VAR/Camera was discovered I can't recall a single one where it led to any serious legal ramifications if any at all.
4) I wouldn't suggest a poly at this point (not yet), but if and when you do, make sure those VARs/cameras are in place.
5) If more suspicious activities keep happening I would consider you to hire a PI or at least follow her yourself with a borrowed or rented vehicle (you may ask a friend/relative to rent it for you then use cash to reimburse him/her).

Now "infidelity" aside, the exhibitionism itself is a major problem, especially when she even did it in your presence, that alone would be reason to D in my book. As others mentioned, do NOT reveal your sources and stop confronting without undeniable proof, keep posting frequently.

Hello everyone, wife is at a work function today so I can take some time to reply.

MIgander, I want to thank you, you've really given some of the best advice and insight I have received on here. You are an asset to this site. When we got together, we decided to keep seperate accounts so she could keep expenses related to her older children seperate. I put money on her account every month to cover my expenses and those of our son with just a little extra for whatever. She is better with taking care of accounting and such than I am and doesn't mind doing it so we've just functionned that way. Funny thing though, is when this happened I was having issues with my bank (there was a problem on my account and I couldn't get a hold of anyone for almost 3 weeks) and she had suggested just closing my account and opening a joint account. I refused and she dropped the matter.
We don't currently have any loans or a mortgage. The last one was for the car and was paid off a couple years ago. We were however going to purchase a house which I mention in the initial post which I have put on hold until this matter is settled. One car is in her name, the other in mine, though she paid for both of them. If she has any money hidden though, it will be through her medical practice and I have no access to those records nor any way or getting an excuse to get access.
I've brought up our lack of communication regarding finances since all this started which she acknowleged but we never got back on the subject after that. I'm starting to feel like I really should now.
I agree that I am fighting my instincts, the worst part is that I know my instincts have almost always been right my entire life. I'm mostly worried that past experience is clouding my judgement on my current situation and that I'm seeing things that are not there as she says.
Realizing the gravity of my situation is breaking my heart all over again. I've been managing to hold it together these past few days, but I'm really feeling awful inside. My boy came and sat on my lap and gave me a hug this morning and I almost had a breakdown. I'm extremely emotionally stable and hardly ever experience or express sadness, yet I thought I was going to lose it earlier.
How do people do this? Why would she tell me she loves me but cheat and lie and let me think I have a mental problem and put my judgement and perception and instincts into doubt? I think this is what hurts me the most, that she would make me think the problem is all in my head.

Dude67, No More Mr Nice Guy was a serious wake up call. I'd always thought I was just doing what was right. I realize now that I was just making myself a doormat. I couldn't care less what she tells her girlfriends. Her two closest friends are self centered bitches, luckily I don't have to see either often as they both live hours away. She has a couple friends locally that seem to be decent family women. I dont know any of them that well though, only briefly met during park outings and school functions.

jb3199, regarding polygraph, my idea is threefold. First that acceptance or refusal will be a major clue. Second, I've been told that parkng lot confessions are common on the way to the polygraph. Third, I've been doing research into the subject the last few days, and while it doesn't seem to be able to get exact true or false answers with 100% certainty, it would seem the gist of faithfulness or cheating can be determined with high accuracy. That being said, I may delay the polygraph taking into consideration Bigger's statement for the time being, but I think it will come up within a few months.
As far as communication goes, we've had problems for years. I keep trying to get her to talk with me and spend more time together but I've had very poor results. Even without the infidelity this is one of the things that has had me thinking there is a D in our future.

Bigger, thank you for your insight, I found this very valuable. I'm going to continue researching polygraph use while I continue gathering data via VAR and GPS. I'm going to lay low for the next few months and see what I come up with.

Iggyb, I'm going to go ahead with the VAR and GPS for now and I will do my own PI work if I suspect she is going to meet up with someone. She is extremely intelligent, and I think she learned how to cover her tracks with her ex husband and has been playing computer illiterate with me.

Sisoon, I understand what you are saying. The reality is, what I really want is R but I don't want R without full disclosure. When I ask myself what I really want, for myself, it makes D an obvious choice. Thing is, what I want more than that is a good parental environment for my son, which is why I'm still trying for R. I don't just think she is lying about something, I think she is lying about everything, and I have a problem with liars aside from any infidelity issues.

Buster123, I'll be doing VARs as soon as I get them, GPS as well. Not doing a camera. I don't think there is a point for now. Rental car for watching her isn't a half bad idea. I'll consider it. I really do need to not say anything unless I have solid proof to not deny, thing is, I wouldn't consider a confession in the face of evidence as worthy and that would probably just end in D.

Thanks again everyone, I feel better in some ways, worse in others. I'll answer any messages when I get a chance, otherwise I'll be back to update when there is more to say.

CJ

You have received very good advice so far. You have a lot of circumstantial evidence, but the main thing is your gut is screaming at you. I regret ignoring my gut and dismissing the red flags. My advice is believe everything you see and don’t dismiss anything. You have to stop telling her what you know and or how you know.

My second regret is trusting my WW’s toxic, divorced, whore friend. She gleefully cheered my WW on in her infidelities. My advice is look in to these girl friends too, they will help lead her further down the slippery slope.

Best Wishes to you

How do people do this? Why would she tell me she loves me but cheat and lie and let me think I have a mental problem and put my judgement and perception and instincts into doubt?

Lack of empathy. Cheaters and abusers have it in spades. The lying and letting you live in self-doubt is called gaslighting. It is absolutely brutal, almost as bad as the cheating itself. When I found the naked pictures of my fWW's "just-a-friend", I was actually partially relieved, because then I knew that I wasn't crazy, paranoid, etc., all of the things I had been encouraged to believe. I was devastated by the cheating, too, but it felt good to know that I wasn't wrong all those years.

I was actually partially relieved, because then I knew that I wasn't crazy, paranoid, etc.

This is very true, as much as truth hurts, there is some relief in it. The manipulation that goes with infidelity is very abusive, some of the responses from your Wife appear to follow a familiar pattern.

So I just ordered a couple of mini USB VARs. Having trouble picking a GPS though. I need something really small, something that will fit in her purse unnoticed. I can already track her phone, but if she is leaving it at the office she might also not be in her car so a car GPS is useless. Any advice/experience would be appreciated.

Tanner, I wont be telling her anything at this point. I've said too much already.

MorningGlory, I know all about gaslighting, kind of suspected that is what was going on here, but I just can't believe my wife would do this or be this way. Mind blown, or shattered. Dated a covert narcissist for almost a year. She was the worst of all my exes.

CJ - potential A aside, it doesn’t sound like you’ve ever been really happily married to each other. You mentioned that D was a solid potential absent this current issue.

Without a solid pre A marriage to build upon if there was an A and you pursue R, R will certainly be an uphill climb.

I’m not trying to be obtuse, but why even bother?

So I just ordered a couple of mini USB VARs. Having trouble picking a GPS though. I need something really small, something that will fit in her purse unnoticed. I can already track her phone, but if she is leaving it at the office she might also not be in her car so a car GPS is useless. Any advice/experience would be appreciated.

A GPS tracker in her purse is very risky, it could be easily found and backfire on you, If she's cheating the A would go much deeper underground, moreover if she's that smart as you claim, she could even find it and play dumb, leave it in her office and make you think she's there, not to mention the fact that women typically have multiple purses, again not worth the risk, just put one in her car hidden in the trunk (some GPS have magnets which are very useful), if she's cheating and communicating/meeting with AP frequently, the GPS in her car and the VARs should give you results in a few days/weeks, otherwise a PI may be needed to confirm/deny if the red flags continue.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 3:19 AM, Sunday, May 8th]