SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Doc, I don’t mean this to sound malicious and hopefully you won’t take it that way. I’ve read through all 32 pages of your thread and quite honestly, I’m not sure what more you’re looking for here. Page 10 is the same as page 20 which is the same as page30. You seem to have a need to analyze this this entire situation to the "N’th degree, so much so, that at times, you seem to be taking both sides of the argument. In business, it’s called negotiating against yourself!

You describe me well! Perhaps my wife was justified in cheating after all! :P

I can understand the frustration in reading through seemingly similar discussions, but it's all been very helpful to me and I'm very appreciative of all the feedback--including yours!

No, your wife had absolutely no justification for her heinous betrayal against you.

DrStrangelove, you are very cerebral about a matter that should only be that deeply considered as far as the protection of your children and assets are concerned.

You are justifying her despicable choices and arguing against yourself and your own best interests and being of high mental faculty doing it verbosely and eloquently.

What the other poster tried to say is that you are spinning your wheels by retreating into your intellect. This is the time to rather dig into your heart and gut and let your intellect only be a governor for the rage you are ignoring by retreating into your cerebrum.

Matters of the heart are not maths problems that can be balanced and calculated to the nth decimal.

You have been unjustly forced to make hard choices about your entire future and the future of your children in which no-one wins and the equation can never be balanced to a net 0.

You have the right to be p1ssed at the person who forced you into this position by her betrayal.

What you need to remember is that your wife didn't respect you during her affairs and I'm not so sure she respects you now because you are far too willing to let her get away with this despicable act of betrayal without much consequences to her.

There is a story on another board told by a WW where a husband immediately decided to divorce her. In her own words, she knew that the marriage was over, but she was never so turned on by any man as by her BH when he stood up for himself and acted decisively dolling out the consequences to her that she knew that she deserved.

I'm not telling you to D, I'm just saying that this problem cannot be solved. You need to not make it a cerebral matter. Your wife needs to have severe consequences for her despicable choices and you need to make your choices as to what you want and how to get there and act out of strength to get there. You also need to realize that you and your children will have to live with the consequences of those choices you make.

But alas, you cannot think your way out of this and you cannot strike a bargain with yourself that will lead you out of infidelity and into a brighter future.

Forgive Errors I think in Afrikaans and write in English.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 10:58 PM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

Honestly, reading through her texts just sound like bull shit to me. She just wants to say the things that will get her out of this mess--and I know that's the case because virtually nothing she wrote was hurtful to me.

Words will never solve this puzzle. She needs to fix herself and prove it with actions. That's not a short term project. You'll know when she's a candidate for R is when she starts telling you the truth even though it hurts the chances you stay together. When she starts doing what is best for your recovery even though it hurts her case for reconciliation. I don't think she's there yet, but neither are you. Most of your posts are tainted with rationalizations on why you should stay together instead of looking hard at question of whether you should.

What you need to remember is that your wife didn't respect you during her affairs and I'm not so sure she respects you now because you are far too willing to let her get away with this despicable act of betrayal without much consequences to her.

What does that mean? What consequences am I expected to levy on her? I made my list of "demands" at the start and she’s followed them.

Doc. The thing is, the way you describe it, (which of course is from your WWs own mouth), your WW had planned on exiting the M to get together with AP up until the point where all of a sudden AP started becoming distant and emotionally unavailable. Then, she said he’s not a good match for me but the sex is great so I’ll continue with great sex only.

Thus, if AP had not distanced himself from her she would have exited the M to be with AP. There’s no other way around this fact.

This fact cannot be in question. What remains is whether you can forgive her for her plan to inevitably divorce you, plus all of the badmouthing, etc.

It’s not uncommon for a WS to badmouth the BS to justify their actions. What’s less common is that this was an Exit A based on everything you’ve told us. Your notion that it was more of a cake eating A doesn’t hold up to the evidence you’ve presented.

If she feels she still has you as opposed to that she has lost you and have to fight to get you back, she has very little in the line of consequences.

What measures you take to impose these consequences are up to you, but I would advise you to step back and get a bird's eye view of your marriage. That means you have to deliberately detach emotionally from your wife at least for a while in order to gain perspective without the overwhelming fear of loss.

I suggest you practice the 180 or a similar method of detachment and once you are out of this immediate spin-cycle that keeps you in the whirlpool of rationalization and fear you are currently in, only then assess if you still want this marriage.

Only when she is desperately fighting and continues to consistently do so, to keep you while fearing justly that she may very likely not succeed, willing to crawl on her knees through broken glass for your love, only then can you truly even really think of R.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 11:40 PM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

Doc. The thing is, the way you describe it, (which of course is from your WWs own mouth), your WW had planned on exiting the M to get together with AP up until the point where all of a sudden AP started becoming distant and emotionally unavailable. Then, she said he’s not a good match for me but the sex is great so I’ll continue with great sex only.

Thus, if AP had not distanced himself from her she would have exited the M to be with AP. There’s no other way around this fact.

She’s walking a tight line on this point. Her framing is that she felt the marriage was going to end—she discussed divorce with her mother (verbally, so I didn’t read the exchange). At the exact same time she’s entering into the physical start of the affair (meetups, kissing).

Her argument is that she never felt she was going to leave me for AP, but I have a strong sense she’s bending words to get around the devastating truth.

We’re taking about a short window—within a few weeks she felt like AP was a bad match for her as a partner and that feeling only grew throughout the affair. And realistically, there was never a scenario where running off together was in play, so it’s easy for her to dismiss it now.

But the fact is it simply is not a coincidence that her feeling that the marriage was over happened at the exact same time as the start of the affair. It’s an inconvenient fact to her position that she was possibly going somewhere. And once we accept she was willing to go somewhere, and we further accept she was willing to sleep with another man behind my back forever, we have to also accept that another exit affair was probably on the horizon.

As many have pointed out, it’s fair to argue that the hypotheticals don’t matter. The truth is she didn’t pick a longterm partner and I did find out relatively early in the affair. My reason for obsessing over it is because I think it also speaks to the likelihood of her being my longterm partner. I feel like once someone is that far gone, it’s a long road back—she’s eating shit sandwiches served up by me and her therapists all damn day. It seems like someone who was already done with me might one day decide it would be easier to be done with me again rather than continue eating all this shit.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 11:58 PM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

It seems like someone who was already done with me might one day decide it would be easier to be done with me again rather than continue eating all this shit.

Then so be it, if she wants to go, let her. It's never worth being a court jester to entertain someone who does not give of themselves wholeheartedly, not even for the sake of kids.

As a matter of fact this really damages the kids.

Her argument is that she never felt she was going to leave me for AP, but I have a strong sense she’s bending words to get around the devastating truth.

Maybe she knew the AP cop wasn't her new Mr Right, but he was Mr Rightnow. He was her way out, the exit affair guy. If you didn't find out there's a good chance that she would somehow make a divorce happen which would scare off the cop and she'd soon move onto someone else. Successful attractive women are popular.

She is alos putting in the work to keep the marriage intact. But I think she will bore of that when she realizes it is years, not months of work to fix what you both have done to the marriage relationship. You sound like you may not be the easiest guy to live with (much like a former friend of mine) and she thinks that there's a quick fix out there, but learned it is not banging another guy.

Don't discount the cookie, it is very small gesture that says for that instant she was thinking about you and what you like. A few months ago she was looking for his car in the parking lot....

oops dubblle post.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 12:39 AM, Wednesday, May 4th]

I agree with Cooley2here. Keep working through this your way. It’s your life and you are dealing with a ton that has been dropped on you. You need to reflect. This is not a race. What seems clear today will seem different tomorrow. Take your time. Watch your WW’s actions. As you see you will get lots of opinions here. Some feel that D is your only path. D or R are both ways to survive infidelity. You will receive support which ever path you choose. Think carefully about any consequences. From what you share she already feels shame and guilt. You gave her a list which she is following. As tempting as it is to impose punishment, the pain she would feel would never match the pain you feel. All of this is terribly unfair to you, but it never balances out. Is that a dealbreaker for you? It is for many. Take care of you. Best of luck.

Hello Doc,

Like many others, reading all of this pains me. I'm so sorry for what you are going through and will be going through for a long time yet, regardless of the outcome.

I've wanted to say a lot after reading the posts and comments from the last several days, but I've refrained.

I'll still refrain.

For now, I'll just focus on one thing.

You said:

"Her argument is that she never felt she was going to leave me for AP, but I have a strong sense she’s bending words to get around the devastating truth."

You're right to have a strong sense she's bending words to avoid the devastating truth.

There is so much to this Doc, many levels.

First, reconciliation can't really happen with lies. Truth, as painful as it is, can be worked with. Lies keep the foundation weak and a relationship won't last on a weak foundation built upon lies.

You and others have said many things over the last several days so I won't get into that.

How about you drill down into just this ONE thing, your sense that she's bending (uh, that means lying) words to get around (uh, that means lying) the devastating truth.

Being that it's your life, I can't and won't tell you what to do sir.

If I were in your shoes, I'd set up a polygraph and I wouldn't tell her ahead of time, not days I mean, maybe the day of as long as you remain with her.

I'd have the person conducting the poly ask your wife about this topic.

Why? Not just for the obvious reason Doc. It isn't just about the fact that she was planning and wanted to leave you and your marriage together.

It's also about the fact that she is still lying to you now, as you're both trying to reconcile.

That can't happen Doc. Well, it can and does happen all to often, but you get my point.

Her lying to you, about anything, be it big or small, derails the reconciliation effort and attempt.

There are too many sad stories on this site regarding this, where waywards continue to lie about things as they try to reconcile.

To me, this topic (her bending words to avoid the devastating truth) is secondary to her lying about it.

So many betrayed spouses are crushed when they know their wayward spouse is still lying to them.

They (and you) simply want the truth. One may work with the truth.

Now, this topic is bad enough too, but it should take a back seat to her lying.

I mean, both your wife and you know she thought the marriage was over. That fact isn't in doubt or in contention between the two of you.

Her continuing to lie to you is what this should be about and this is one simple, relatively clean cut thing for you to be able to resolve that.

Why have her do a poly?

Many reasons Doc. First, as you said, she's walking a fine line and bending words regarding this and the poly will knock her behind off of that fine line she's walking on and it will force her to quit bending her words.

Some of the previous comments mentioned her not having consequences and you asked what those might be and you said you wrote a list of demands and she's following them.

Well, having her take a poly would be one example, a small one, of a consequence of her choices and actions. She won't want to.

Also, it would be simpler to just have it than for the two of you to try and discuss this over and over with her parsing her words, walking her fine line and bending her words in order to try and make what she says sound better to you.

To hell with sounding better, she just needs to be honest and she isn't.

Having to take a poly isn't fun. It's also embarrassing. Well, guess what Doc? That's too damn bad and it's consequence she should have to face.

When she asks you why, you can remain calm and simply let her know you don't believe what she's saying and you want the truth and she isn't giving it to you so she'll be taking a poly.

And Doc, she needs to be uncomfortable, embarrassed and yes I know she has been, but things need to be "uncomfortable" sometimes.

I'm not talking about her embarrassment with her friends, her missing the PTA, but with you.

I mean, she's comfortable enough with you to keep lying to you about this Doc. She's not working hard enough on herself if she's continuing to lie.

And after she takes the poly, it will continue to "work" for you for weeks and months. How and why? She knows you'll do something about her continuing to lie to you if she keeps lying to you. She won't want to go take a 2nd poly months later.

The poly would serve many things. It would be a quick and decisive action by you that her continuing to lie to you won't be tolerated.

She won't want to do it, but she should Doc, she really should for many reasons.

Her continuing to lie goes to what you said when she's trying to come up with things to say to you. She shouldn't have to try and come up with anything, but she is. She's measured, she's calculating. She should just be honest and truthful, but she isn't. Her texts to you, her conversations are ways to try and get around things instead of working on them and hitting them head on.

In some of my previous comments I talked about this and you just recently said this Doc:

" My reason for obsessing over it is because I think it also speaks to the likelihood of her being my longterm partner. I feel like once someone is that far gone, it’s a long road back—she’s eating shit sandwiches served up by me and her therapists all damn day. It seems like someone who was already done with me might one day decide it would be easier to be done with me again rather than continue eating all this shit."

Reconciliation is a process. You understand that of course. The outcome isn't yet known, by either of you and it won't be for a long while yet.

However, if she keeps lying to you, the odds of her one day deciding it would be easier for her to be done with you again go way up Doc.

As you know all too well Doc, reconciliation is hard work, it's tiring, taxing, emotionally draining, physically draining too.

If she's still lying to you (and she is, you know it too as you said you have a strong sense she's bending words, which is another way to say she's lying), then both of you are wasting your time and effort on reconciliation as it's almost sure to not work out.

A wayward who is really trying to reconcile is an open book, they are vulnerable, they quit trying to drive the narrative. She isn't doing that, not really. She's half-assing her reconciliation attempt Doc, to this point at least.

It's time to find out if she will go all in on trying to work on this. If she won't stop lying to you, then she's not really working on reconciling with you Doc.

I hate all of this Doc, I can't imagine what you're thinking, feeling and going through regarding all of this. I'm young, never married, haven't been cheated on and yet I hate reading things like this.

Your children and you are in my thoughts and prayers.

And Doc, you should be seeing your own counselor.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 4:37 AM, Wednesday, May 4th]

Hi again

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately when I reflect on your story. I’m looking for your thoughts on this Doc. I’m hoping not to make this a whole threadjack as I can start a separate thread to do that philosophically if I or others want. But was wondering in the context of your wife’s infidelity what it means to you?

What breaks the bonds of a marriage? If you have a marriage contract signed and filed, are you truly still married if one of the participants truly shits all over the vows that are behind that piece of paper? What truly makes a marriage no longer real? Is it only if it is legally ended? What if it is morally, ethically or emotionally ended? Do you still consider yourself married? Do you consider HER married after what she has done.

I assume like everyone else, you both took vows to Love, Honor, protect, cherish … foresaking all others. She pretty much broke each and every one of those vows. So is she still married to you after her cheating? The things she did with the POSOM in cars and hotel rooms are pretty standardly accepted actions that are reserved for the sanctity of a loving partner.

And the emotional injury they caused you is something people would go to prison for if they perpetrated the same in physical form against their spouse.

So, after all that, while you might say you consider yourself married as you didn’t break your vows, do you consider her still married to you? Or do you strictly go by the legal sense of the institution?

Because if it were me, one ramification I would be laying on a spouse who acted for several months as callously as yours did in so many ways would be to tell her:

"While we may still have a piece of paper, a legal document, that says we are married, your cheating has ended the vows that truly made us life partners. And because of that, I want to tell you, that while I have committed, for me, not you, to try and build something new with you, right now at this moment and for the last month since discovery, I DO NOT CONSIDER YOU TO BE MY WIFE. I have no wife. I had one. She is gone. You are a person of importance and Interest to me, but not a wife.

Someday you may hold that place in my life again. But not now. I can’t have that after what you have done. And that breaks my heart. "

That would be my position Doc. I’m interested in yours. People have been talking about ramifications for her for her cheating. To me that would be a big and meaningful one. I would probably take off my ring if it were me. Not sure if you have. And I’d tell her that I didn’t think she deserved to wear hers until you had someday built something new and she had proved herself to finally be a worthy partner.

But short of actually filing for divorce, which you don’t appear willing to do right now, that is what I would be communicating to my wife if she had done what yours unfortunately chose to do.

Take care.

Doc - I agree with EmergingLady. It’s time for a poly.

In order to R you must know the entire truth. It’s not the details about the sex etc, since you’re more comfortable on this part of her A. Instead, the poly should verify whether this was an exit A, whether she’s cheated before, and if she was actively looking for a second AP.

The poly is not a means to solidly your thought process for D. Quite the contrary. The reason is to solidify your hold on the truth, which will allow you heal better and to further your efforts towards R. Without the complete truth this simply will not occur.

With respect to your WW potentially having another A down the road, and/or simply leaving you, affair or not, it’s simply a gamble on your part. You have absolutely no idea, so it’s always going to be a risk.

Even in relatively solid marriages, so the husband thinks, after the kids are out of the house many wives initiate D - Gray Divorce - it’s rampant. Women initiate 70 percent of divorces. What I’m getting at is that you face an even greater risk of D having had a cheating wife.

It’s not a reason not to pursue R. It is a reason to get the entire truth on the table now, snd that gets done via a Poly.

Hello Doc,

Like many others, reading all of this pains me. I'm so sorry for what you are going through and will be going through for a long time yet, regardless of the outcome.

I've wanted to say a lot after reading the posts and comments from the last several days, but I've refrained.

I'll still refrain.

For now, I'll just focus on one thing.

You said:

"Her argument is that she never felt she was going to leave me for AP, but I have a strong sense she’s bending words to get around the devastating truth."

You're right to have a strong sense she's bending words to avoid the devastating truth.

There is so much to this Doc, many levels.

First, reconciliation can't really happen with lies. Truth, as painful as it is, can be worked with. Lies keep the foundation weak and a relationship won't last on a weak foundation built upon lies.

You and others have said many things over the last several days so I won't get into that.

How about you drill down into just this ONE thing, your sense that she's bending (uh, that means lying) words to get around (uh, that means lying) the devastating truth.

Being that it's your life, I can't and won't tell you what to do sir.

If I were in your shoes, I'd set up a polygraph and I wouldn't tell her ahead of time, not days I mean, maybe the day of as long as you remain with her.

I'd have the person conducting the poly ask your wife about this topic.

Why? Not just for the obvious reason Doc. It isn't just about the fact that she was planning and wanted to leave you and your marriage together.

It's also about the fact that she is still lying to you now, as you're both trying to reconcile.

That can't happen Doc. Well, it can and does happen all to often, but you get my point.

Her lying to you, about anything, be it big or small, derails the reconciliation effort and attempt.

There are too many sad stories on this site regarding this, where waywards continue to lie about things as they try to reconcile.

To me, this topic (her bending words to avoid the devastating truth) is secondary to her lying about it.

So many betrayed spouses are crushed when they know their wayward spouse is still lying to them.

They (and you) simply want the truth. One may work with the truth.

Now, this topic is bad enough too, but it should take a back seat to her lying.

I mean, both your wife and you know she thought the marriage was over. That fact isn't in doubt or in contention between the two of you.

Her continuing to lie to you is what this should be about and this is one simple, relatively clean cut thing for you to be able to resolve that.

Why have her do a poly?

Many reasons Doc. First, as you said, she's walking a fine line and bending words regarding this and the poly will knock her behind off of that fine line she's walking on and it will force her to quit bending her words.

Some of the previous comments mentioned her not having consequences and you asked what those might be and you said you wrote a list of demands and she's following them.

Well, having her take a poly would be one example, a small one, of a consequence of her choices and actions. She won't want to.

Also, it would be simpler to just have it than for the two of you to try and discuss this over and over with her parsing her words, walking her fine line and bending her words in order to try and make what she says sound better to you.

To hell with sounding better, she just needs to be honest and she isn't.

Having to take a poly isn't fun. It's also embarrassing. Well, guess what Doc? That's too damn bad and it's consequence she should have to face.

When she asks you why, you can remain calm and simply let her know you don't believe what she's saying and you want the truth and she isn't giving it to you so she'll be taking a poly.

And Doc, she needs to be uncomfortable, embarrassed and yes I know she has been, but things need to be "uncomfortable" sometimes.

I'm not talking about her embarrassment with her friends, her missing the PTA, but with you.

I mean, she's comfortable enough with you to keep lying to you about this Doc. She's not working hard enough on herself if she's continuing to lie.

And after she takes the poly, it will continue to "work" for you for weeks and months. How and why? She knows you'll do something about her continuing to lie to you if she keeps lying to you. She won't want to go take a 2nd poly months later.

The poly would serve many things. It would be a quick and decisive action by you that her continuing to lie to you won't be tolerated.

She won't want to do it, but she should Doc, she really should for many reasons.

Her continuing to lie goes to what you said when she's trying to come up with things to say to you. She shouldn't have to try and come up with anything, but she is. She's measured, she's calculating. She should just be honest and truthful, but she isn't. Her texts to you, her conversations are ways to try and get around things instead of working on them and hitting them head on.

In some of my previous comments I talked about this and you just recently said this Doc:

" My reason for obsessing over it is because I think it also speaks to the likelihood of her being my longterm partner. I feel like once someone is that far gone, it’s a long road back—she’s eating shit sandwiches served up by me and her therapists all damn day. It seems like someone who was already done with me might one day decide it would be easier to be done with me again rather than continue eating all this shit."

Reconciliation is a process. You understand that of course. The outcome isn't yet known, by either of you and it won't be for a long while yet.

However, if she keeps lying to you, the odds of her one day deciding it would be easier for her to be done with you again go way up Doc.

As you know all too well Doc, reconciliation is hard work, it's tiring, taxing, emotionally draining, physically draining too.

If she's still lying to you (and she is, you know it too as you said you have a strong sense she's bending words, which is another way to say she's lying), then both of you are wasting your time and effort on reconciliation as it's almost sure to not work out.

A wayward who is really trying to reconcile is an open book, they are vulnerable, they quit trying to drive the narrative. She isn't doing that, not really. She's half-assing her reconciliation attempt Doc, to this point at least.

It's time to find out if she will go all in on trying to work on this. If she won't stop lying to you, then she's not really working on reconciling with you Doc.

I hate all of this Doc, I can't imagine what you're thinking, feeling and going through regarding all of this. I'm young, never married, haven't been cheated on and yet I hate reading things like this.

Your children and you are in my thoughts and prayers.

And Doc, you should be seeing your own counselor.

Thanks for the post--I have an update from last night.

I dove in again to her feelings at the start of the affair; laying it all out, like a prosecutor, similar to my post yesterday.

I explained that in Dec. she determined that the relationship with me was over and began the affair with AP and badmouthing me all at the same time. I explained that initially the AP was her out from the marriage and I understood that window closed over the following weeks.

She responded that she never had intention of leaving me for AP (but again, to me it was bending truth).

I replied that I understood the intentions were never there, but I pressed that she was open to the possibility in the early days. Essentially, she didn't know what would happen with affair, but she was open to him becoming a longterm romantic partner if the situation played out in that direction. Ultimately, within weeks, she realized he wasn't a longterm romantic partner for her and he made it clear he was not interested in leaving his wife--and with that, he was no longer a likely out from the marriage, but instead just an emotional and sexual outlet.

We didn't resolve it initially, she felt like I was twisting what happened. We took a break from chatting and she took a bath. I went up to see her and we engaged again, this time she quickly broke-down in tears.

She told me I was right about how I framed it, but she hadn't thought about it in those terms--her feelings for AP were evolving very fast in the early days. And in her defense, I understand that neither her nor AP ever had plans to leave their spouses for the other. But my wife did acknowledge that she was open to that possible outcome developing in those early days.

I then pressed her on the other point bothering me--her stance that once she identified in late-Jan that AP wasn't her out from the marriage, she resolved to stay in the marriage with me and not leave me. I think that's bull shit, and I explained it to her. By continuing her sexual affair indefinitely and taking the secret of it "to her grave," she was very literally preventing the marriage from healing--all but ensuring she was either going to enter into another exit affair down the line or spend the rest of her life deeply unhappy.

Ultimately, she agreed with that as well--but again she pressed the point that she wasn't thinking about any of this at the time, though she agreed that it makes sense looking back.

It felt good to have that clarity out in the open and just like every other time she provided me with a painful truth, it brought me closer to her. It's strange, but I feel best when she shares something very hurtful to me--because it's the only time I feel sure I can trust her. So little blips like this set me back emotionally and mentally, but it's worth it as long as I can come out the other-side with more truth.

Lastly, regarding a poly, I'm open to using it should we get stuck, but I've found she'll break under tight scrutiny. I think in this case, it wasn't black and white as the truth was leaving me for AP was never a reality--but the fact that she was open to it becoming a reality, even if for only a few days, is an important truth for me.

Doc, I think that you realize, at least subconsciously, that your WW’s A is a dealbreaker for you and that you’re working through the ramifications of a D on your kids and you. I’ve been there and in retrospect waited way too long to divorce my now XWW ( who also had an A with a local cop). My kids and I are happier now post-D. When you’re going through your mental calculations of a D, don’t forget to include the value of your remaining time and your happiness during that time. I overlooked that and my one regret is not divorcing earlier. I think that if you ask, most XBH will say that they don’t regret getting divorced.

I find it interesting that you call what she's been doing.."bending the truth." Rather than call it "lying."

Why is that?

What does that mean? What consequences am I expected to levy on her? I made my list of "demands" at the start and she’s followed them.

You need to be doing what you need to do to heal yourself. Not the marriage or relationship. Let go of that outcome and do what needs to be done to fix you. She should be the one driving her actions to atone for what she did to you and her family. Not following a script that you lay out. You both need to concentrate on your own healing and becoming better people. You can work on whether those better you can come together and forge a better relationship down the road. IOW stop trying to push the cart along before the horse. And that relationship has to be better. The marriage you had before won't survive with the damage of infidelity tainting it.

[This message edited by grubs at 3:58 PM, Wednesday, May 4th]

Doc, I think that you realize, at least subconsciously, that your WW’s A is a dealbreaker for you and that you’re working through the ramifications of a D on your kids and you. I’ve been there and in retrospect waited way too long to divorce my now XWW ( who also had an A with a local cop). My kids and I are happier now post-D. When you’re going through your mental calculations of a D, don’t forget to include the value of your remaining time and your happiness during that time. I overlooked that and my one regret is not divorcing earlier. I think that if you ask, most XBH will say that they don’t regret getting divorced.

I don't think that's true. My internal compass is still pointing toward reconciliation, assuming she continues making progress. I am just being thorough in exploring this entirely.

I have no doubt I can would find another wonderful partner and find happiness post-divorce, but I still think the best outcome for me and my children is with my wife--that doesn't mean I have blinders on though--I'm taking everything in.