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When do you plan to tell the other betrayed partner? With the level of selfishness and insecurity of your wife, I would not be so sure their affair is over or won't start again unless the other partner knows. You are really charging in the wrong direction by taking so much ownership of what is completely your wife's fault and problem. She doesn't need you to protect her. She chose this.

Your posts reek of codependency.

I have been reconciled for 10 years now.

I know what you are going thru.

If you want to save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it.

Tell the other man's wife and then you will see how remorseful your WW is.

Drop the marriage counseling. It is way to soon!

Read the book Codependent No More as soon as you can.

Good LUck

Do not feel sorry for her. She is mourning the loss of her boyfriend. Don't allow her to do that in your presence. It's so incredibly disrespectful.

Something you said has me wondering if you've shared this site,and this thread,with your wife?

Something you need to understand..she was not sorry,or shamed, until you caught her. So all of this crap about how she feels like a whore,and she's so filled with shame..nope. She knew what she was doing this whole time. She knew she was having an affair,and betraying you,and her children, and she was just fine with it. But,now,suddenly because you know,now she feels bad about it?

No. She is mourning her boyfriend, as she admitted,and you are attributing her feelings to shame. She is not ashamed. She was fine with it just a few weeks ago.

You need to find your anger. She's manipulating you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:46 PM, Thursday, March 24th]

Dr. You’ve received a lot of feedback and I’m sure you’re feeling overwhelmed by it and your current situation. I’d like to try to help with that.

You’ve indicated you want to reconcile. However, the collective experience of this website is that you cannot reconcile until you recover or at least begin to recover. That takes time, weeks to months of time.

Furthermore, you cannot recover until you received the truth and begun to deal with it. Based on my experience reading BH stories here, I doubt you have the truth currently.

Take your time recovering and reconciling to give your M the best shot for a healthy future. Although it may not feel like it to your WW, focusing on yourself right now to begin your recovery is a huge gift to your WW. It seems paradoxical to the newly minted BS, but it really isn’t because successful reconciliation is not possible without recovery.

well said Crushed 7 and butforthegrace

Butforthegrace is 1000% spot on with his last post as is Hellfire. I would listen.

Read that book too

You've received some very good advice on here from others who have ridden the infidelity rollercoaster. Some of it will seem harsh but it's borne from bitter experience my friend. It's very early days in what will possibly be the most traumatic thing that'll happen during your lifetime so please be easy on yourself. There'll be good days and there'll be absolutely dreadful days ahead when you'll feel life can't get much worse. Infidelity can take many years to recover from and some never really fully recover from it.

Just one question before some reading suggestions...

We have a complicated sexual past that could be its own thread—and we were certainly bad communicators

Without wishing you to go into the salacious details, a little background info about the 'complications' may be useful to those offering advice going forward.

Finally some reading recommendations if they haven't already been suggested...'No More Mr Nice Guy' by Dr Robert Glover (downloadable PDF available on google) and 'How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair' by Linda Macdonald which you may wish to give your WW to read.

Please remember this...Regret and Remorse are distant cousins!

Best wishes for the future Dr S.

I'm with the others who believe that a large part of what your wife is going through right now is due to the lose of her boyfriend.

I'm not saying this is what happened, but it does happen often. You say its the first day apart, there is a chance she was in contact with the AP who likely rejected her.

I've been involved with BH's for many years and I see the path your on, you push your own pain away, you're focusing a great deal of time and energy on how your wife feels, how others aren't being supportive of her. Good caring husband, the problem? If you continue this path, you will nurse her to health and coast along for a year, two or five and then it will all come rushing back.

Please understand, this didn't happen to your wife, she did it. I know that sound given, but do you actually believe it.

You see in doing what your doing you convince yourself that external factors played a roll in her infidelities and controlling those factors will prevent her from being unfaithful in the future, this making you feel safe to continue.

Ive been where you are. About 8 months now.

I didn’t want to believe what SI members had to say— I was in denial. Delusional. Hopeful. Unable to accept reality. Tried to insulate myself from the truth.

I hung onto every nugget of positives my xWH did and said. When he said was sorry for cheating and looked truly sad, I took that as remorse. However, that was him mourning the loss of his AP. (She ended with him once we got divorced. They are back together now at FULL speed)

When he told me he wanted to R with me, I believed him not because he did anything to prove it but just because I wanted to believe it. I deceived myself. Now I look back and realize that his actions said otherwise.

I was so blinded by the trauma, pain, and was desperate to hold onto the hope. I didn’t want to let go. It’s a brain thing. Your brain doesn’t want to break the bond you have with your partner.

Once xWH and I physically separated and I started NC, the fog in my head started to lift. I see more clearly now. I think it was critical for my brain to have that time and space to calm down.

You have so much happening right now. You are not able to think or see clearly.

Your logic has been thrown out the window.

During these times, be careful about following your heart. Your heart will misguide to you.

Listen to what SI members are saying. They’ve been through exactly what you are going through. They know what they are talking about. And fortunately cheaters follow a predictable pattern.

Write down all the advice you’ve gotten from SI and carry it with you

Let it be your instruction manual until the fog starts to lift.

[This message edited by DailyGratitude at 4:31 PM, Thursday, March 24th]

It sounds like your wife medicates through one night stands only this time it blossomed into an affair. I’m guessing she has undiagnosed low grade depression. Shame eats a hole in people. That needs to be dealt with first. She needs intensive therapy.

Stop MC. She is so far from ready. She is still missing the jerk.

In her family are bright red flags. If her sister is that off the wall chances are your wife inherited some of it.

Now! You take care of you and let her do the same. You are not her safety net. You are a betrayed husband.

Well, as the good doctor said in the film:

"Yes, but the... whole point of the doomsday machine... is lost... if you keep it a secret! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?"

The whole point of OBS's marriage, and yours, is lost if you keep the affair secret. Why don't you tell the OBS, eh?

Have you ever seen those drawings of cubes that appear to stick out? And if you force your mind, you can see the cubes going in? My point is you have to reframe your thinking, an see the situation from a different angle.

You are not trying to save your marriage. Your spouse left your marriage and you are deciding whether you want to enter a new relationship with her or not.

You are no longer her protector. You are now the protector of you and your children u til such a point, if it happens, that you commit to R.

She is the only one to blame for this. She chose this. She chose to hurt you, be demeaning to you, she chose to hurt your children.

She needs to fix herself. You need IC for the trauma she has inflicted you.

The above doesn’t mean R is impossible. It describes the way of thinking that will help you navigate between R and D with a best chance of success.

Good luck!

I think the overall message here can be summarized by what the first divorce lawyer I visited years back told me (I ultimately went with someone else because he was ruthless and I didn't want that) "Listen, grab your boat, point it in the direction of a life without her and paddle your ass off. If she wants to save the marriage she will figure out a way on your boat"

You are planning coaching and playing like she is 100% your teammate, unfortunately that isn't the case. She is looking out for her, her family is looking out for her, YOU are looking out for her, who's looking out for you?

who's looking out for you?

Everyone here, who has given him advice.

It's up to him to listen.

OP, you sound like a really.... Nice Guy. So focused on your wife's feelings and helping her heal. Letting her grieve the loss of her boyfriend in your presence and consoling her even though her actions blew up TWO families. (And that is what it really is right now to your wife, what SHE lost, what her actions say about HER. YOUR pain nor how her FAMILY was betrayed doesn't really register to her yet.) The thinking also may go something like this too: the way you and your wife are spending so much time together, it is looking like your marriage is fine, and your world was not blown apart the way that is was.

The problem with this is that there is an awful lot of anger you are stuffing down. And, even if you are not aware of it, the anger and rage IS there, and it is RIGHT that it is there. And, if your wife does not face the consequences of her actions (which HAS TO include dealing with YOUR anger and pain), SHE will eventually be the one who starts feeling awfully funny about things. She, believe it or not, will start to lose respect for you, only she will feel so guilty about this that she will have a hard time admitting it even to herself, nevermind you. And...her self-esteem or whatever that is, won't recover. She knows what she did on some level and she never put in the work to help make ammends.

Right now instead your wife needs to feel the consequences of her actions. You and she need to tell the OBS what your WW did, as OBS deserves to have agency when it comes to her own life. Your WW also canNOT be grieving the end of her affair in your presence. Ironically, that type of tough love will not only inspire a lot more respect on the part of your WW, it actually will lead to healing faster than the 'there there' approach.

Meanwhile DrStrangelove, I do get it, I mean, I can imagine reading these posts are not easy. Your WW was the one who blew up your life, and right now, you are in serious pain and shock, and are just doing the best you can to get through your days. And yet, you are the one being called to action here, getting all this advice. Not easy, not easy at all! And yet, you do have battles ahead for you, to protect yourself and your family. Please stick with us, Friend!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:41 PM, Thursday, March 24th]

DSL:

You are probably reeling both from your internal emotional state in your newly-discovered reality, and from the host of strong voices here advising you to consider different insights and approaches in what you do now to truly get OUT of infidelity and not just kick the can down the road. Take a deep breath and take some time for yourself in deciding how to proceed. During that time you may also want to read the McDonald book - How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair -- for yourself. It was not until I read that book that I realized what I needed to see from my WH. And I made him read it IMMEDIATELY thereafter - stalling meant he wasn't serious - including my marginal notes where something really resonated with me. This was my roadmap and changed my thinking and my plans. I HIGHLY recommend it for YOU.

Good luck and keep posting, even if you feel a bit brow-beaten at times. Everyone means well so as you read project a gentle voice and not a harsh one onto the commenters.

Best to you!
Odonna

Stop worrying and learn to love the (truth) bomb. Tell the OBS.

I used to hold all the same beliefs as you, almost exactly. I know where you are coming from, and I'm not even going to bother trying to change your mind. I almost think that you have to learn these lessons first hand.

Just gonna send you strength. I think you have been conflict avoidant (I wouldn't say codependent like some other posters) with your wife for your whole marriage, and you need to fix that. Conflict is necessary right now.

So there's just too much in this thread for me to respond to, but I'm hoping that responding to some posts I'm providing enough important feedback.

I want to start with the CT went surprisingly well--because of you guys, I went in very skeptical and was ready to call it quits. But she kept echoing many of the points you've all told me and it hit hard. She felt that not only was I forgiving her too quickly, but I was trying to forgive her too early. She felt I was being far too rational about such a catastrophic event and I need to recognize that all trust in the relationship is now gone. She was also very direct with my wife that it's important for her to take full responsibility for the affair and recognize that she has deep-seated issues that need to be uncovered and discussed. She strongly reinforced that we were moving too fast--specifically me.

We both agreed to continue seeing her and are setting up a meeting for next week.

I also want to reinforce that I'm not letting various bull shit from my wife slide in our conversations and I'm not being passive. I'm leading these conversations and she is clear on how mad and hurt I am. I am reporting back her reactions as they happen, but I do not mean to imply I accept them.

She has cut all contact from the man and she wants reconciliation with me. And the only scenario I can conceive where she made additional contact with him is if he called her from a different phone yesterday (the only day we've been separated) and she deleted record of the conversation. They have an active text chain on her phone now that she hasn't deleted and his number is still blocked--more importantly though, I am 100% convinced she is not still talking with him. I think it's highly unlikely anything ever happens with him in the future, but there's no way I can know that--nor am I actively worrying about it now.

My friend, as a 100% unqualified, no formal training or education possessing armchair psychologist, I'd hazard that you are a highly co-dependent individual. At least, this post reeks of co-dependency, and a concomitant sense of passive acceptance of whatever it is she dishes up for you. El Señor, I cry for you. Out of every personality trait, co-dependency/passivity is the one single trait that is strongly correlated with failed R because of the easy ability of the WW to push an agenda of rug-sweeping, DARVO, etc.

This is a hard one to answer--objectively, we're both probably co-dependent: we've been relying on each other for 17 years.

I would note the dual references to "whore", because I find that noteworthy. A body count of 20 for an attractive woman during her undergrad years who went to college some time around the late 1990's or early aughts is not remarkable. But the fact that you perceive that she feels shame about this, that is. I wonder, does she really feel shame due to girlfriends in college, or are you projecting that? Hmmm.

I ask because you say she "became sexually repressed during our marriage". That is not something you have mentioned before in this thread. In fact, your earlier posts suggested that sex was good for the most part, and HB has been somewhat of a freak train.

When did she become "sexually repressed"? How did it manifest? That's important to know for an understanding of the dynamic.

Specifically, was it during the past year or so? I ask because one classic hallmark of cheaters is that, as they begin the walk up that ramp toward infidelity (for example, your WW trading flirty glances with Mr. Cop whilst cutting paper snowflakes at the PTA), their sexual fervor for their BS begins to wane. They become distant. Pick fights over little things. Seem irritable. The unwitting BS generally thinks he is the problem so he steps up, more acts of kindness and praise, more shouldering the domestic load, etc. But it doesn't seem to work. Where you used to feel her fire, it becomes cold inside. That, my friend, is not her becoming sexually repressed. That is the sound of her rejecting you because her Sauron's eye is now focused on the AP in the distance, the precious.

Or, was the sexual repression something different? Have you reminded her, ever, of the "whore" who screwed 20 guys in college? I do think that it's important for people to swap sexual histories before getting married, but once that's done, if you then decide to get married, sexual history is off limits in terms of fodder for shaming or abuse. Your decision to marry is a decision that you're copacetic with her history.

By the way, there are a lot of good reasons why a young 20-something woman in college might have a 20-something body count, but the most classic reason is because she can. Sex for an attractive woman in college is as readily available as air. A woman can find sex literally by stepping outside her dorm room and taking a walk down to the dining hall. If she is a serious student and a woman who wants to maintain her independence, getting into a serious boyfriend relationship can be a drag. College boys are immature, solipsistic, and possessive. Many are physically disgusting because they've not yet mastered personal hygiene. Some can become stalkers or manipulative assholes. The way to avoid all that, to keep her eye focused on her studies while slaking her 20-something sexual thirst, is to hook up with casuals and randoms. It's a logical strategy that does not deserve shame.

In contrast, if her body count was mostly illicit hook-ups with guys who were dating her friends, then she always was a shyte person and if you chose to marry her knowing this, you got what you asked for, my friend.

She fucked 20+ different guys over the first three semesters. We can disagree with if that's "a lot" for that timeframe and leave it there; however, it was well before we met and has been a significant source of scaring for her from her past. She was harshly judged by her girlfriends and began to invert sexually out of shame. I do not believe it had anything to do with me--truthfully, I liked that she was free sexually when we first met and I had no issue with her past. She just never dealt with the repressed feelings of judgement and it manifested--she thinks it's a big thing she now wants to work through in therapy.

As for our sexlife, we had very little intercourse over the last 10+ years (maybe on average, 20x a year), but we had a lot of sexual encounters, just mostly oral and hands (probably three times a week on average). But from her perspective, she didn't ever love doing it, she just went along with it--intercourse would often hurt her so non-intercourse sex was preferable to her. Truthfully, there's a lot more depth I'll have to give on our sexlife in another post.

As an aside, have you reported Officer Bangaho to his superiors for adulterous sexual intercourse? It probably violates several provisions of his code of conduct. Did he drive them from the NBA to the hotel in his squad? Probably even more violations.

They never had sexual encounters in his capacity as a police officer, as far as I know, though she did request he bring his handcuffs to the Feb. 24 hotel meetup.

I have no interest reporting him to anyone or getting involved with any inane drama. I have enough to worry about without trying to be vindictive to him.

And I'm unfamiliar with 180 therapy, but I'll look into it.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 9:35 PM, Wednesday, May 4th]

Stangelove,

If nothing else, consider the OVERWHELMING consistency of responses you've received so far.

It's scary, yes. Because everyone is telling you something you really don't want to hear. I first came here looking for some comfort, and maybe some advice, but mostly to find some sort of handy checklist I might use to put my world back together with minimal additional damage. Like you, I felt I "owed it to my children". I struggled for 18 months in the perceived role of their protector and savior of their innocence.

One night, lying next to my largely unremorseful WW, I had a dream. In it, my oldest daughter (she was about 7 at the time) was grown up, and came to me in tears, telling me that her husband was having an affair. It was like a kick in the groin. Seeing her broken and in such immense pain was profoundly disturbing, and I woke up sobbing. Ten years later, I vividly remember this dream, and what it did to me.

That dream was a gift. Because for the first time, I saw objectively what I was so desperately trying to ignore: not merely the impact of betrayal on someone I loved more than anything in the world, but the fact that I couldn't stand by and allow her to rationalize more of that pain.

If I couldn't allow it for her, how could I allow it for myself? I was terrified. And I realized that my daughters ultimately needed much more from me than to live under one roof with their biological parents at any cost...and so I decided to stop being a deal broker to save something I thought they needed. There are worse things than divorce for children.

I wish you peace, my friend.

[This message edited by jagged at 8:56 PM, Thursday, March 24th]

Dr. the fact that your WW is finally feeling the full force of shame is a good sign. Humility is a necessary aspect to being able to honestly look at herself and her behavior. IC is a must. It’s a good step she is starting that process.

It appears that your WW had a common A as she approaches mid-life. Not an excuse for infidelity but common nonetheless. A totally selfish action. She blocked out you and your children. It was all a fantasy. She liked the way he made her feel about herself. Sex was the currency she paid to keep the fantasy going. She loved the fantasy not the AP. Very much a cliche A.

She needs to come to terms with her brokenness and selfishness. If she descends into a shame spiral, then it all becomes about her and not your pain. A truly remorseful WS is more concerned with your pain caused by her actions than her own guilt or shame. This is a process. Watch her actions. As you move away from your Dday, you emotions will change. You will ultimately see the path forward for you. Take care of you and your emotional health.

Your post reflects what I'm seeing. The shame is still there, but I can see it's now mostly abject horror for what she did to me. I went to get a STD test--and it pissed me off. I didn't deserve to be sitting there explaining to a doctor that the woman I'm in a committed relationship with has been having unprotected sex with another man.

I feel like I now understand what some of you have noted about remorse--her body is consumed by it.

I also suspect you might be right about the affair--it's Occam's razor at this point. I think the guy was just a penis in a fantasy she was playing out.