SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Above everything else, I think the most important reveal from your wife is that she thought the marriage was over, so why not…

What were her reasons why she thought the marriage was over? You obviously did not think the marriage was anything other than fine. I think your WW owes a detailed explanation about this.

Also, is it an option to move to a different town with your family to start fresh? - no small town gossip, no OM or OBS, your WW can establish a new safe set of friends, etc. Your daughter is young. My thought would be a town close enough to both of your jobs, and your family, but yet far enough away.

So her thinking the marriage was over was a brief time span for a month or so. She felt like the love had left our marriage and that we were two partners raising children—and there’s certainly some truth to that, it’s just I felt that we were still relatively happy and ultimately following through with our commitment to raise these children.

She met the OM and just became selfishly consumed. By February though, she reconciled to the fact that she wanted to stay in the marriage with me—she was debating the affair, but at the time of discovery, both of them were still choosing to continue the affair.

As for moving, as of now, that seems unnecessary. Should this become a social scandal, who knows.

So her thinking the marriage was over was a brief time span for a month or so. She felt like the love had left our marriage and that we were two partners raising children—and there’s certainly some truth to that, it’s just I felt that we were still relatively happy and ultimately following through with our commitment to raise these children.

Has she volunteered (without you asking) how she is going to resolve this or that she plans to resolve this if you decide to give her the gift of reconciliation? This level of selfishness is not something healthy people can understand. What is she planning to do so that when life is mundane, she won't feel entitled to cheat. or lie. or overspend. or whatever it is she decides she is entitled to do at your expense?

This detail is somewhat unusual. Most cheating spouses, at least the ones who do the work, realize that the cheating was about them, and the AP was mainly just a matter of proximity at the moment when the cheater was primed to cheat. Your WW is telling you that her cheating was more about this specific AP, something she was attracted to about him. Perhaps, since OBS is considering divorcing the AP, you tell your WW that she is free to pursue her joy with this loser of a man. Clearly, her picker is deeply flawed. A serial philanderer on the police force. There's a worthy expenditure of tax dollars. How many donuts an penicillin shots per dollar do taxpayers spend on Lt. Puerco? There is a case to be made for "let her have him, and let him have her, and good riddance."

I agree it’s a contradiction. I think she was more open to the affair than she thinks. However, I also think whatever her initial intentions—and I may never know—by the time we get to Feb., she decided the OM was not a desirable longterm partner. This could be a blind spot for me, but even if me and the OBS died tomorrow, I don’t think there’s a future for them.

The bad mouthing to others and primarily to herself was to rationalize away her betrayal. So there was at least some internal resistance to be overcome. The need or at least excessive craving for external validation is a common trait in waywards. That would be what I would hope her IC works hardest with her to fix.

That was my take early on as well, but I don’t know that she was doing it consciously. I think she was genuinely pissed at me over every inane interaction and was venting it out to everyone. I think a part of her still feels I was wrong in many of those interactions, she just can’t defend her position in this moment as she has no ground to stand on.

For us to work, her inability to communicate with me needs to be radically addressed. She has so much passive aggressive behavior it’s brutal. She internalize a slight from me and sit on it for days or weeks. All the time passes without me even recognizing if there’s an issue. Then she raises it, I try to recall the moment and give my context if I feel she’s wrong headed, then she shuts down.

It’s impossible to live like that—I need her to engage with me in a timely manner and then openly discuss it without being defensive and shutting down the communication.

I thought the goal was to repair the damage she inflicted on your image to others. Did she do any of that? Did she tell you what she said to them? That is part of the healing and rebuilding process. If she can’t go forward with that then I do t have high hopes she’ll ever be a truly safe partner for you.

Yea, part of the conversation was about how she was doing (she quit PTA, so they know things are troubled). She talked about craziness at work and cited my strong support of her. I just mean that it was nearly a three hour dinner, so much of the night was just inane blabber from one of the women.

Has she volunteered (without you asking) how she is going to resolve this or that she plans to resolve this if you decide to give her the gift of reconciliation? This level of selfishness is not something healthy people can understand. What is she planning to do so that when life is mundane, she won't feel entitled to cheat. or lie. or overspend. or whatever it is she decides she is entitled to do at your expense?

Her current "plan" is to work through with her IC all her self destructive behavior and hope to improve her self-esteem. She doesn’t yet understand those issues well. What she does acknowledge is her poor communication and she recognizes that she needs to actively work on that.

and the other we are planning a couples dinner with later this month.

That might be a bit awkward...right now things are all up in the air, then you go away for a week? Then come home and things with wife may be better, may be worse but will be different and unsettled as you both will be on non-normal behavior.
Does the other couple know about your WW affair?
If the wife knows the husband knows...might be weird for the other couple.

Re: the town "scandal", people have short attention span but long memories. Some other scandal will happen to eclipse your wife's PTA affair to attract the attention of the town but they will remember (but not really care) that "wasn't she was one of Officer Frank's sidepieces", as he has had a few.
When I was a kid one of the mom's was banging our 8th grade teacher. THe other mom's knew, us kids knew something was weird and 40 years later whenever that guys name comes up we say "oh yeah, his mom was doing Mr G.

That might be a bit awkward...right now things are all up in the air, then you go away for a week? Then come home and things with wife may be better, may be worse but will be different and unsettled as you both will be on non-normal behavior.
Does the other couple know about your WW affair?
If the wife knows the husband knows...might be weird for the other couple.

The other couple doesn’t know, but I agree that all of this is potentially awkward because things can be revealed that we might not figure out.

That was my take early on as well, but I don’t know that she was doing it consciously. I think she was genuinely pissed at me over every inane interaction and was venting it out to everyone. I think a part of her still feels I was wrong in many of those interactions, she just can’t defend her position in this moment as she has no ground to stand on.

Reframing is not always a conscious decision. Their mind is stuck in a conundrum. They feel they are a decent person. Decent people don't cheat on people they love. They are cheating. Therefore there has to be a reason so their mind makes one up to get out of the cognitive dissonance. . No one is the villain in their own story. We're not in Love anymore. BS is mistreating me. Once the A is over, it's the APs fault. If the WS works through it all the way they start to fully unwind all that reframing and be honest with themselves. She has a lot of IC in front of her before she gets to that place if she can.

cited my strong support of her.

Ok. That seems like the bare minimum. Had she bad mouthed you to them before? If so she seems to be saving face.

Instead of saying "guys I’m sorry, but I fear I was exaggerating about the issues w my husband the last few months. Truth is while we have the normal disagreements, he truly is wonderful to me. - And I’ve started to be more communicative when I’m feeling bad about something. It never was as bad as I led you to believe and since the last month or two things truly have been great".

I just write this to urge you not to let her off the hook. It’s all part of making amends for the emotional injury she inflicted upon you.

And going forward, if she wouldn’t say it w you standing next to you, it shouldn’t be said at all.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:42 PM, Monday, April 4th]

Reframing is not always a conscious decision. Their mind is stuck in a conundrum. They feel they are a decent person. Decent people don't cheat on people they love. They are cheating. Therefore there has to be a reason so their mind makes one up to get out of the cognitive dissonance. . No one is the villain in their own story. We're not in Love anymore. BS is mistreating me. Once the A is over, it's the APs fault. If the WS works through it all the way they start to fully unwind all that reframing and be honest with themselves. She has a lot of IC in front of her before she gets to that place if she can.

You're spot on here--and I can see her struggling with that very question: is she a good person? Is it an absolute question?

She seems committed to sort through her issues with her IC, I just don't want her to think an hour of therapy a week will inherently solve her problems. She needs to actively fight her addictions every minute of the day--at best, the IC will provide her with some important tools to do so.

Ok. That seems like the bare minimum. Had she bad mouthed you to them before? If so she seems to be saving face.

Instead of saying "guys I’m sorry, but I fear I was exaggerating about the issues w my husband the last few months. Truth is while we have the normal disagreements, he truly is wonderful to me. - And I’ve started to be more communicative when I’m feeling bad about something. It never was as bad as I led you to believe and since the last month or two things truly have been great".

I just write this to urge you not to let her off the hook. It’s all part of making amends for the emotional injury she inflicted upon you.

And going forward, if she wouldn’t say it w you standing next to you, it shouldn’t be said at all.

So I'm the one that suggested a light touch. Her and the OM both quit the PTA within weeks of each other--there are a lot of red flags right now and I think my reputation rebuild will need to be gradual. I also think I can work to resolve this by doing the couples dinners, etc.--they can then see who I am for themselves--unfortunately, having dinner with random people I don't know sounds horrible, but I'll take one for the team I guess.

As to your last point, that's spot on--she needs to fully respect me in all conversations moving forward. I won't stand for any less at this point.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 10:12 PM, Thursday, May 26th]

I would submit you are married to somebody who is an addict, or at least the functional equivalent of an addict -- her main "drug" being positive reinforcement from others. Hence the extramarital sex, the excessive drinking, the shallow materialism, the inappropriate dress in public. It's really hard being married to an addict. Add to that your addict is the kind who, in the throes of her obsession, will trash you behind your back to family and community.

Do any of you have books you’d suggest for my WW? I think she’s be willing to put in the time beyond IC if there’s a good recommendation.

OP. You said that your WW told you that she was second guessing the A by mid February snd was planning on leaving the A, however she had not done so by the time Dday came around.

How do u know this to be true?

This may not be your wife’s first rodeo during your marriage.

I strongly suggest you get access to her gmail if she has one. You’ll be able to view her whereabouts the last few years (if she has a gmail account). iPhone or Android will log in where she has been.

The way she went about this affair suggests it may not be the first one.

Many BS find out things down the track which sets them back to Day 1 again.

Your marriage has been suffering for a number of years.

Look into this.

Once hysterical bonding is completed, you’ll know roughly where you stand as you’ll be able to analyse things more clearly.

And inform AP’s boss about his extra curricular activities. If anything, he needs to feel the full force of his actions. At the very least, you’ll be saving another married man going through the pain you’re experiencing.

She seems committed to sort through her issues with her IC, I just don't want her to think an hour of therapy a week will inherently solve her problems.

Indeed.
I'm no psychotherapist but given her issues your WW is probably looking at years of ongoing in depth IC for it to be effective. She needs to know the reality of her situation. Not everyone has the ability or desire to face up to their own issues. I hope your WW is willing to dig deep...very deep, and potentially for a long time.

I think you've handled this horrible betrayal like a star. Your sense of self worth seems to have remained intact throughout and I can tell you there aren't many BS's who could can claim that! Believe me that strength has held you in good stead through this ordeal.

Very best wishes to the both of you.

OP. You said that your WW told you that she was second guessing the A by mid February snd was planning on leaving the A, however she had not done so by the time Dday came around.

How do u know this to be true?

So they saw each other in his car on Feb. 8 (BJ while she was on her period). Then the OM became cold to her until a few days before the hotel meet up on Feb. 24. He was barely texting and he ignored her entirely at a PTA event and social event that followed.

During this time she says she thought he might have been losing interest. She also began to see more of the negatives in his character in ongoing dealings with PTA—quick to anger, suspicious/sketchy things (she began to question if he was seeing other woman). She said she felt prepared for the affair to be over.

Then he texted her while we were on a beach in Florida, a few days before their hotel plans on Feb. 24. He was back to his old flirty self, telling her he couldn’t wait to see her tan lines, etc. She quickly lost sight of the end and was back in the middle of it. I’d even argue she felt more weight to push sexual boundaries at this point because she felt he was losing interest (requesting handcuffs and anal sex at the hotel).

They saw each other and it went great—two days later she spent the evening having fun with OBS. Four days after that, she saw him in his car again (BJ and cowgirl). After that, he went dark again—his aunt died and he had no desire to chat. More than a week later he began connecting again—but my wife was having the same feelings as mid-Feb., like it could be at an end. It wasn’t until March 14 when they made plans to meet again on March 17, but that was disrupted when I found out on March 15.

Her bottom-line was that it felt like a yo-yo in two week intervals. He was hot and cold, keeping her in emotional turmoil. My best guess is it was intentional on his part—he wanted to avoid her becoming emotionally attached and he knew he had her under his thumb for use sexually whenever he wanted.

I personally don’t think my WW was going to be strong enough to walk away from him entirely, so it would have been on him to do so. And I think he probably would have eventually in the short term, once there were no more sexual boundaries to push, the risk-reward would have lost its appeal. Keep in mind, his wife was suspicious, so he probably felt a lot of pressure. Still, I think he’d have had her as a potential booty call for years if he wanted it. And without this coming to light, we wouldn’t be working to fix any of her underlying problems. I’d just have been deaf, dumb and blind the rest of my marriage (potentially).

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 10:16 PM, Thursday, May 26th]

This may not be your wife’s first rodeo during your marriage.

No way to know for sure, but I imagine if there was anything it would have been very early in our relationship with connections to college friends.

As for a legit affair in the 10 years of our marriage, I’m doubtful. If it happened, it would mean she didn’t tell her mom, who she tells EVERYTHING. There’s no way I overhear those conversations and read all those texts and there’s no reference back to a previous affair.

Hey Doc. Have a great trip. Hope you and your mom can enjoy yourselves.

I still think you should have someone drop by the house unannounced a few times. If I were her and truly remorseful, I’d welcome it as an opportunity to prove myself and rebuild trust.

I think you've handled this horrible betrayal like a star. Your sense of self worth seems to have remained intact throughout and I can tell you there aren't many BS's who could can claim that! wink Believe me that strength has held you in good stead through this ordeal.

Very best wishes to the both of you.

I certainly don’t feel like a star, but I really appreciate the comment. Thank you.