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Newest Member: 39Robbo

Reconciliation :
Sex as a bargaining tool


icytoes ( new member #79512) posted at 1:11 AM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Take the trip. You deserve it. You will feel refreshed and ready to get back to the business of family life afterwards. If you don’t go, resentment will build and you might remain stuck.

Sometimes I use the same expression your husband does

It’s up to you. I don’t care.

when my H wants to do something that I don’t particularly want him to do, but I’m OK with. An example is when he wants to buy large power tools. I would prefer that he never bought large power tools, because they take up space in the garage and they cost a lot of money, but I understand they are important to him. When I know it’s a bad idea I tell him why I am strongly against it. But when it seems reasonable I say what your husband says, "It’s up to you. I don’t care."

Take him at his word and go on the trip.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2021
id 8709694

gainingclosure ( new member #79667) posted at 3:58 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Mans point of view here. I thinks this is kindof a bash fest on your fWH and honestly I don't see the responses from this thread as being a help to your marriage at all.

Sex is a way to bring you two back closer together. It's apparently important as one of his love languages and right now it seems dysfunctional in your relationship. I think classifying this as emotional abuse is hyperbolic and the wrong way to look at it personally. I will say that he needs to understand how overwhelmed you are and how being tired can affect your sex drive. Have you communicated that to him and if he wants more of it, you should discuss things he could be doing to help facilitate that and take more of a load off of you.

I would suggest trying a more structured approach since it sounds like the spontaneous way is just resulting in crossed wires and causing more conflict. Id try to come to an agreement on how many times per week you two would both like to or expect to have sex and settle on a number that falls in between. So for example if you say 1x per week and he says 5x, maybe settle on 2-3x per week and then schedule it out. For example, you agree to having sex on Fri and Wed nights at 10pm. No getting too tired, no watching football games late. You have time to pre plan it. Sure, sometimes things that are unexpected will get in the way, and in that case, discuss a make up time.

posts: 29   ·   registered: Dec. 9th, 2021
id 8709832

emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 4:48 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Gainingclosure - Your advice would be reasonable for an infidelity-free couple in an otherwise healthy relationship going through these types of problems (though I would argue that mandating sex as a precondition to let your overworked spouse do something nice for themselves and pouting and giving the silent treatment after being shut down is unhealthy in any relationship). This isn’t that though.

I would encourage you to read some of Elle’s prior posts to get some background context for the relationship she is in, and the way her unremorseful, unrepentant wayward partner treats her. I think you might see the situation differently having done so.

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 744   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8709866

taken4granted ( member #61971) posted at 5:53 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

I can’t answer your question but perhaps I can give you another perspective.

Right now, you are operating like a single parent. Your husband may not be aware that he is preparing you to be on your own, but he is. Mine was the same and when we separated, my life was actually easier. Because the courts gave him parenting time, it actually meant that I had some down time. He now has to figure out how to get kids different places during his parenting time.

I believe your husband needs a bit of that to either learn to appreciate you or figure things out on his own. Meanwhile, if you separate, you may grow stronger in your boundaries of how you will be treated. You don’t have to divorce, but you need to be willing to because your husband won’t change otherwise.

I remember how tired I was when I had to be super mom.


"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain
Me: Living life! Him: Not my problem anymore
Married 15 yrs.
1 LTA, Many EAs from 2009 - ?
Dday 1 = 6/16/17
Last Dday = 1/4/18
Started loving myself 2018!

posts: 347   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2017   ·   location: OH
id 8709888

NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 6:24 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Elle2, how often are you two being sexually intimate?

Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid.

posts: 275   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2020
id 8709898

Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 8:20 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

I understand bsex is important for men, but I saved myself for marriage. I didn't quite make it to the altar before we dtd but he's the only man I've ever had sex with so clearly I need a real emotional connection with someone. Not someone who will rub my feet and mark a tally in his head that he did it and then see what he gets in return.

I know this isn't it. I know that. I'm really hoping that school will give me what I need to feel secure to leave.

To me, this changes the entire conversation.

Do you love him? Do you want to be with him? Is this just a matter of him not doing the work to R or are you really done with the marriage and you're just waiting for the right time to leave?

Me: 60, BS
Her: 59, FWS
Dday: 11/15/03
Married 37 yrs

posts: 200   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8709909

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 9:37 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Is this just a matter of him not doing the work to R or are you really done with the marriage

If he isn't doing the work to R, he's telling her he is done with the marriage.

A WS "just not doing the work to reconcile" is huge. No "just" about it.

Gainingclosure..this man is abusive. It's not all about her being too tired for sex. He has been abusive in many ways towards OP.

Telling her to come to a compromise, and have sex with him because he has needs,completely dismisses the way he treats her. Telling a woman she should make herself have sex with her abuser isn't helpful. As suggested, read her posts. Did you catch that she,and her kids, have to have a SAFE WORD when her husband's anger gets out of control? But..she needs to make sure he's getting his sexual needs met? She should agree on a certain amount of sex every week,regardless of how he's treated her that day? Come on,man.

posts: 3876   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8709924

TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 1:22 AM on Saturday, January 15th, 2022

Gainingclosure - maybe hyperbolic but still a horrible situation all around. Her partner sits on his ass while she works her ass off for the family then uses sex as a weapon against her.

I know men are highly sexual creatures. You know what? Woman can be too. Ask the betrayed husbands around here how sexual their wives can be. But sex is a two way street and what turns a man on isn't always what turns a woman on. If the sexual relationship is one sided, it sucks. By one sided I mean, he wants to get off, she is the closet vagina and well goddamn it she better put out. And she doesn't even orgasm, like ever.

Any man (or woman) who thinks that is good sex needs their head examined. You want more sex? Seduce your partner. For a woman with a young baby that might mean helping her out, partnering her, looking her in the eye over the crazy home
life and giving her a smile, telling her you love her while you help wrestle the brood to bed.

Trust, treating a woman like she is your mommy who needs to pamper and baby you is NOT sexy. Treating her like an object meant to make your life easier (i.e. help you avoid all the boring / hard shit about life with kids) as well as a sex vending machine that better deliver the treat with minimal effort is NOT hot.

Abuse or not, it's gross and unsexy and gross again.

Go on the trip, OP. GO ON THE TRIP.

posts: 83   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8709964

Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 9:23 AM on Saturday, January 15th, 2022

If he isn't doing the work to R, he's telling her he is done with the marriage.

Almost all WSs are clueless about what it takes to R until it's spelled out to them and they face consequences for not following through. If they were all telling their BSs that they were done with the marriage there would be no Rs.

A WS "just not doing the work to reconcile" is huge. No "just" about it.

You're misconstruing my comment. I'm not minimizing anything. I'm trying to understand her comment that she was just waiting to feel secure enough to leave. If she's just waiting to leave and he is done with the marriage because he's not doing the work (as you suggest) then this isn't really about R at all.

Me: 60, BS
Her: 59, FWS
Dday: 11/15/03
Married 37 yrs

posts: 200   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8709989

landclark ( member #70659) posted at 2:31 AM on Monday, January 17th, 2022

Lack of sex or intimacy in a marriage is certainly something that needs to be discussed, but as others have pointed out, it’s not that simple here. Infidelity makes sex and intimacy that much harder for the betrayed. Add somebody using it against the betrayed like a pouty child who didn’t get a second cookie, and it’s damned near impossible.

Sex should never in any way be used as a bargaining tool or a condition. Period. Agree with others that this is emotionally manipulative behavior on your WHs part. There’s no two sides to this story. He’s wrong. This shit is what leads to the "I’m only cheating because of a dead bedroom" excuse, with the wayward not looking at those three fingers pointing back at themselves.

Me: BW Him: WH (GuiltAndShame) Dday 05/19/19 TT through August
One child together, 3 stepchildrenTogether 13.5 years, married 12.5

First EA 4 months into marriage. Last ended 05/19/19. *ETA, contd an ea after dday for 2 yrs.

posts: 1948   ·   registered: May. 29th, 2019
id 8710249

rambler ( member #43747) posted at 3:22 AM on Monday, January 17th, 2022

Ellie is not a blow up doll. There are other parts to marriage other than sex, like love, honor and cherish. She is already a single mom.

Stay strong Nd stay the course.

Best wishes.

making it through

posts: 1291   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2014   ·   location: Chicago
id 8710259

Anna123 ( member #70908) posted at 2:43 PM on Monday, January 17th, 2022

Life flies by. A trip like this is special and a memory to be added to the 'special' file of your heart and mind. It will become a part of you that is good. You can go, and still have the same mess to deal at home either way so you may as well.

Your description of the feeling of being used/trading for sex as opposed to enjoying it together is quite an odd trigger for I forgot about that feeling now that I am a few years divorced. It is a tough one for you to navigate but in the mean-time looking back at my own life being married to a 'difficult' man, and with a child, I wish I would have taken advantage of more of those opportunities at the time.

posts: 652   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8710303
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