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Newest Member: 39Robbo

Reconciliation :
Sex as a bargaining tool

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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 2:19 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

We see it all the time. Wives getting what they want from their husbands using sex as a tool. Is this a real thing? Ive never done it, my friends and I have never talked about it, and we talk about EVERYTHING.
I ask because I have another work trip that I can go on. My last one was fun and super informative, and it really helped jumpstart me in my new TA gig. This one is more official and really gives us a chance to see things we probably normally wouldn't. Tours of the nicer hotels and private rooms, Q&A with Disney execs etc. WH first said no. Then when I told my bosses I couldn't make it, he changed his mind and said I could (he would have to take 2 days off work to stay with the baby so I need him to be on board). His caveat was that he needed "more" from me. More intimacy. So I said ok. I do need to work on that. Especially since we moved, things have been so chaotic and we share the room with the baby who has not been sleeping at all. So we agree I can go then we get covid boosters the next day. We both feel rough, but he gets a little something. That night he feels worse so Im up with the baby 6 times for a total of 3.5 hours of broken sleep that night. Next morning he wakes up and is ready to go. I don't hardly know my name because I'm so worn out between my shot and the baby. So I say no I'm exhausted and don't feel well. Next night pretty much the same, he feels terrible, I'm tired but butter so Im on baby duty again. he only wakes 3 times so I get a little more sleep but WH oversleeps the next morning so doesn't have time to ask for anything. Last night WH watched the National Championship game and I went to bed early cause I'm exhausted.He was mad when I told him I was going to bed because I didn't want to watch the game and I knew it was going to go on late. He said "Its sure you'll be asleep when I get in" to which I replied"God I hope so, I'm exhausted" not even thinking about sex and then he said "yeah of course" and rolls his eyes and that's whenI realize he expected me to stay ups we can have sex. I get in bed and pass out. This morning we both get up (baby slept through the night THANK GOD). Im in the bathroom and he comes in wanting to fool around. I make a joke of it and walk out because the bathroom is directly across the hall from my moms room, the hall is not even 3 feet wide, my moms room doesn't have a door on it, she is awake, in bed, and the bathroom door is wood slats, not a solid door so you can see shapes and movement in it and hear everything. I told him "you get some wild ideas in the morning" smack his butt and walk out. Trying to keep it light and fun cause clearly that was NOT going to happen. Well apparently he thought it was because he gave me the silent treatment the rest of the morning. I was trying to talk to him and getting short answers if any in return. I kept trying to get close to give him a hug, and he kept walking away so I told him "hey I'm trying to give you a hug" to which he grabs me and pulls me over for a side hug and a back pat and then kind of pushes me off. I mean............I guess he thinks that since we made this deal I'm his sex slave? The thing about it is he just bought a jeep, and is spending several hundred dollars on a tattoo sleeve (in memory of our son that passed). Neither of which I made any stipulations for. The jeep purchase is what made me think to even ask about going on my trip but it wasnt "oh you got this so I get that". Its like, he doesn't care how little sleep I've gotten, or that I cooked dinner, cleaned it all up after all 6 of us ate, gave all the kids baths all while he watched TV. I will say, he held the baby while he watched TV so I could at least clean up and get the other kids in the bath without a 18m old flowing me around crying because I'm not holding him. I realize that we shouldn't be lacking in intimacy so much that he feels like he needs to use it in order to bribe me to get it. But I also feel like he needs to have some realistic expectations. How can he be so blind as to what Im trying to do, how busy I am, and still expect me to drop to my knees when I finally get 2 seconds to breathe? Last night my mom even looked at me like "jeeze" because I was just finished sweeping and my husband was saying "I know buddy, you are tired. Its bedtime. Just gotta wait" but in a way that sounded more like"I know you want to go to bed but your mom is busy doing other more important things so you have to wait". Its just annoying. Its the same shit, different day. And Im sure you guys are tired of hearing about it. But I have no one else to vent to.

Me: BW
WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).
DDay June 25 2018

posts: 242   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8709032
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 3:10 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

I'm so angry for you that I cannot even. I'm reading this right, that this man is expecting you to pay with sex for him to take time off with his baby so that you can go on a work trip? You are barely getting sleep and working and caring for a baby and other kids and hell, Elle2, everything I've read is telling me that you're married to an emotionally abusive man. Have you considered that? Women tend to not find those who emotionally abuse us as terribly sexy. Men who emotionally abuse their wives do often have a lack of sex problem. They are the cause of this problem. And then they abuse you over it. He knew you weren't going to have sex with him in view of his mother, but I'm thinking that was a nice set-up for you to turn him down and him to be the victim and then be mean to you about it. I worry that you live in a world of gaslighting. He knows what he's doing, Elle. This is intentional. Have you read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft? I highly recommend it. I expect you will find him within those pages.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8709040
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Walkthestorm ( member #72157) posted at 3:34 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

As a mother of a one month old I can assure you sex is the last thing on my mind right now. Sleep and feeling semi human is. If my husband did what yours did he would be told to sleep in the spare bedroom with the baby. Your husband sounds passive agressive.

posts: 89   ·   registered: Nov. 26th, 2019
id 8709044
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Loyal2Afault ( new member #72065) posted at 3:48 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

Why isn’t he able to help more with the children and household duties? I mean, you’d think he might understand you had your hands full and help out. He is their father.

Me BS 54 Husband WS 45 Married 20 years together for 21 Dday October 7, 2019. Currently reconciling

posts: 17   ·   registered: Nov. 13th, 2019
id 8709049
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:58 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

Abuse. That's all this is.

He is abusive in every way.

You have to have a SAFE WORD to yell at him,when he gets out of control.

He expects you to have sex with him, because he occasionally watches YOUR children. I say YOUR children, because he doesn't parent those kids. I've read all your posts. He talks of "babysitting" his own kids. And expects payment, in some form.

The circumstances surrounding the loss of your son are tragic. And he was horrible to you during that time.

Your children are in a toxic environment.

You aren't getting anything from him.

Nothing changes,until you decide you've had enough of this shit.

To answer the question, yes I'm sure sex is used as currency in some marriages. In some marriages,it's probably a cute,flirtatious kind of thing. Like,I might walk up to my husband, smile,kiss him,and tell him if he folds the laundry he might get lucky later,wink,and walk away. He laughs. He folds,we have great sex.

It's not the same thing as if he were to tell me I couldn't go on an important work trip,because I have to stay home and care for our children...but I can go if I fuck him a bunch before I have to leave.

That's disgusting. He's basically wanting you to whore yourself out to him,in order for you to go in the trip. There's nothing playful,or flirtatious, about that.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:00 PM, Tuesday, January 11th]

posts: 3876   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8709053
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StrugglingCJ ( member #72778) posted at 4:04 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

I just don't understand guys who do not get that a family means you both help.. He is the WH, yet still expects you to do everything AND put out when he wants..

Tbh the trip should be yours to go on simply as one of the ways he can try to atone for what he did.. Not as a bargaining chip to get more sex!!

I am not perfect, I know i have slept through the kids waking in the night beforehand, but I have also done a fair share of night time feeds and am the only one my 6yr old DD calls to if she has a nightmare.. Sharing the load is normal.

I know full well that women can use sex to get what they want, my WW Would use it to try and avoid talking about her affair... Aka.. Here honey I don't want to talk about my affair anymore here are some distraction tits!!

But when you are wiped out that's too much.. You need to take care of you so you can take care of the little one.

WW caught in EA May 17
DDay Mar 19 it was full PA
Struggling for R, but still trying.

posts: 178   ·   registered: Feb. 10th, 2020   ·   location: Essex
id 8709054
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 4:50 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

You have to have a SAFE WORD to yell at him,when he gets out of control.

I seriously doubt he'd respect a safe word. He knows what he's doing and he's not interested in stopping. Men like this know what they're doing. That's the hard part to accept. Elle, he knows. He's intentionally treating you this way. It's not that he doesn't "get it". Oh, he gets it. He just disagrees.

Elle, to R you have to have a spouse capable of R. Yours isn't even capable of regular marriage. I think you know this.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8709063
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:59 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

I seriously doubt he'd respect a safe word

I don't know if he respects it, or not. She had posted about it,before,when he had tried to kick his teenager daughter's door down,and ,IIRC, all the other kids were crying.

posts: 3876   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8709067
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:04 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

I don't know if he respects it, or not. She had posted about it,before,when he had tried to kick his teenager daughter's door down,and ,IIRC, all the other kids were crying.

OMFG. Elle. Goodness. Honey, you and the kids have suffered enough.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8709068
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whatisloveanyway ( member #66450) posted at 5:27 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

OMG so sorry for the burden of his needs on top of caring for your baby and trying to stay on your feet all day and all night. You need a break. Your post was a bit triggery for me though. This crap is the source of the resentment my WH claimed fueled his search for an outlet online. Passing each other like ships in the night thanks to parenhood, sickness, family commitments, etc. is one thing. Wanting sex regardless of your comfort zone with when and where is another. I see my H's selfishness in yours. Mine had an almost teasing streak of trying to have sex with me with open doors, kids down the hall, company in the next room.. Nothing creepier than a kiddo hopping in bed with you mid act.... I have privacy issues and parent/child/sex boundary issues so I had a Never with the door open rule that caused us many angry nights. Apparently, I ruin the mood by hopping up to shut the door. What the Heck?? Your mom nearby? Ew. Not a turn on at all. Neither is exhaustion.

I never called it for what it was at the time - insensitive, juvenile and disgusting. Borderline abusive. I think he was getting off on trying to control me or force me out of my comfort zone waaaay more than trying to be intimate with me. And did any of those sessions involve my satisfaction, what do I need or what can I do for you or how can we make this work or what can I do to help you find time to nap so we can cuddle and have sex soon? Nope, of course not. His needs, his wants, he needs your body to take care of him. WTH? I wonder still, now that they are grown, what part of parenting did he not understand or sign up for?

Your H needs a 2x4. Sorry. Focus on your baby and yourself and don't be blackmailed or manipulated into anything that does not work for you. Work life balance is hard with kids, he is making it harder, not easier, making you take care of him too.

BW: 61 WH: 61 Both 57 on Dday. M: 34 years, 2 grown kids, 9 year A with MOW, 7 month False R, years of trickle truth. I got rid of her. Reconciling, but the lies have piled up. Trying one more time, again.

posts: 325   ·   registered: Oct. 9th, 2018   ·   location: Southeastern USA
id 8709074
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 5:46 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

WW here, but I CAN SO RELATE.

And did any of those sessions involve my satisfaction, what do I need or what can I do for you or how can we make this work or what can I do to help you find time to nap so we can cuddle and have sex soon? Nope, of course not. His needs, his wants, he needs your body to take care of him. WTH? I wonder still, now that they are grown, what part of parenting did he not understand or sign up for?

THIS. My husband was and still is on some levels unaware of how much I do as wife and mother and how taxing that is. He's starting to get it- starting to do the dishes more, starting to not see me needing a nap as "dumping the kids on him" and beginning to understand that he's not "watching the kids" when/if I have to go on a business trip or go into work that day.

Our society has done a poor job in the past of socializing men to be involved dads and see parental activities as a base line duty they have toward their family. It's been improving, largely because us women are expecting more, but we still have a long way to go.

BH still expects a medal whenever he is taking care of the kids for the day on the weekend if I have something of my own going on with friends/family. I acknowledge and thank him and then take more of the load off the next day, but he is still discontented with the fact that he had to watch and deal with the kids all day.

As for sex, I've heard the quote that, "Foreplay takes all day." It's not just the touching and sexy banter that make for good sex. It's the caretaking, the genuine acts of service performed all day before hand. Like, "honey, how about I cook dinner, you look tired." Or, "thanks for taking the kids last night while I watched my game. Would you like me rub your feet? Why don't you take a little time to yourself this evening while I do the kids' bedtime." THIS is what really turns me on as a woman.

It's like, if you're not spending all your energy managing the house, doing your job, caring for kids AND HIM, then maybe you'd have energy to spend on pleasuring him in bed. There's only so much energy to go around. You're not a wife appliance who has a sex-bot feature built in.

posts: 298   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8709077
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emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 6:06 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

Elle, sweetie, this ain't it. (((Elle))) I'm so sorry. Your situation sounds so difficult. So defeating. I imagine you barely have a minute, or the energy, to take a step back and look at it objectively at the moment.

Forget the infidelity - seriously, at this point the infidelity is just a symptom of the bigger problem and that is that this man isn't safe. It doesn't sound like he's ever been safe. It doesn't sound like he's trying to be safe. It doesn't sound like he cares about anything or anyone but himself. If we were friends IRL I would hold your hand and listen to you vent and validate your feelings and wait until you said you were ready to get the hell out of there and then I would do a happy dance while watching your kids and cleaning your kitchen, so that you could have a single condition-free minute to yourself to shower, do your hair and makeup, lace up your bitch boots, and take whatever you needed to do to get yourself into a better situation.

It doesn't sound like YOU are using sex as a bargaining chip - it sounds like he is using basic human decency as one. It's gross. You are so much more than this. Side not: between the whining, the manipulation, and the sleep deprivation - I can't imagine why you're not jonesing to jump his bones duh

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 744   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8709080
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twicefooled ( member #42976) posted at 6:24 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

Fuck no. This is not healthy. Sounds like my ex too...intimacy does not require sex - sex is a gift when I'm feeling connected, not a tool to be used as bargaining.

I'm sorry.

May 29 2021 ***reclaimed myself and decided to delete my story with my ex because I'm now 7 years free from him and mentally healthier than I've been in years.

*********When you know better, you can do better*************

posts: 430   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2014
id 8709082
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 6:57 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

In a healthy relationship, sex should be mutually enjoyable, not transactional.

It's fair to say, "I could use more intimacy." To have a complaint about frequency and/or quality, but that should still be a discussion about what you guys can do together to support the intimate atmosphere necessary for mutually enjoyable sex. "I'm stressed about the kids, work, cleaning, etc. and am exhausted. It's just not conducive to me feeling loved and turned on." That still isn't transactional in my mind. It's a discussion about what's going on in your life that is deterring the intimate environment.

There is a lot of "framing" that goes on in these types of discussions, and there is a lot of interplay between the rest of the day and trying to have sex. "Foreplay lasts all day" kind of attitude is important, and maybe something your husband could think about. Again, everyone wins.

If he is gonna be selfish all day, he can have himself at night.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1652   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8709091
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 8:09 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

mad

I'm so angry for you.

He needs to step up and help. While you are busy in the kitchen, put the damn remote down, and give the kids a bath...or...while he is busy in the kitchen, you can give the kids a bath. Simple solution.

Being available for HIS child so you to go on a work trip as long as you are more intimate with him. Hell freaking no.

He's a man child. He's abusive. WHY are you still with him?

Elle, to R you have to have a spouse capable of R. Yours isn't even capable of regular marriage. I think you know this.

^^This. sad

posts: 11381   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8709111
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 8:29 PM on Tuesday, January 11th, 2022

You posted in R, so I'm going to assume that you're not ready to kick this guy to the curb yet. But his behavior is completely unacceptable for a formerly wayward spouse. He's turned sex into a transactional commodity and is obviously "score-keeping" his resentments. Sex needs to be an expression of your feelings for one another, something that celebrates your emotional intimacy. And if he's just looking to get his nut, than it's got nothing to do with you, does it?

I think you'd be wise to get him back into MC with someone who's not going to take any shit off him. And if he doesn't want to take meaningful steps to get back on the right track, you might consider if this is how you really want to live your life.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

{edited for typos.. again}

posts: 4888   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8709115
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 6:44 AM on Wednesday, January 12th, 2022

I agree with others here. Sex should never become a transactional commodity in a relationship. If he feels a need for more sex, that's a topic that needs discussion. But he was wrong to create that transactional linkage between sex and something that you wanted or needed and it was a mistake for you to accept that.

But it's tricky. The fact that you're left carrying so much of the load makes it challenging for you to have the time or desire for intimacy. But you don't want to create that same kind of transactional link between him helping out more and sex.

I would suggest a discussion where you tell him that you understand that he would like more sex and that you would, too (assuming that's true). But the circumstances with how busy and tired you are with the kids and new baby just make it difficult. It's something that you will both need to find ways to make time for. But nothing is going to fix it overnight.

If he can't understand that then it may a topic for MC.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 6:54 AM, Wednesday, January 12th]

Me: 60, BS
Her: 59, FWS
Dday: 11/15/03
Married 37 yrs
Reconciled

posts: 201   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8709216
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:21 PM on Wednesday, January 12th, 2022

But his behavior is completely unacceptable for a formerly wayward spouse.

I would only change this by removing formerly wayward. This is unacceptable for a spouse. Or boyfriend even.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4783   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8709279
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 Elle2 (original poster member #64338) posted at 9:20 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

You guys all hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no desire on my end because I'm so tired/stressed/emotionally closed off. We've been through so much big stuff but I find its the little stuff, the day to day walking on egg shells. The days without talking that really weigh on me. And it turns into this mind fuck of "how long has it been? He's going to start getting mad it's been so long" I know there are plenty of times where there was no reason other than I'm tired. Honestly, I feel like my body has given up on the idea of enjoyable intimacy with him. Too much has happened. He's said too many horrible things that "I'm sorry" just doesn't fix. And I'm not holding grudges. It's like when you break a plate and glue it back together a million times. It's never quite the same. I've told him recently that the effort it takes for us to have sex isn't worth it for me. That "clean up" is more work than it's worth because it's all about him. I couldn't tell you the last time I got off during sex. It was probably during our hysterical bonding period. He always jokes that it's a sprint. And really I'm ok with that most days because it's better than it taking forever and being just as anticlimactic for me.
This stuff always seems to happen when I have a big decision to make. So I sent him an expense report for the trip to see what he thought because at the end of the day I am not the kind of person to just run off say "you got the kids" and spend $1000 on a trip. His response was "It's up to you. I don't care". So now I'm torn because I don't like spending money like this on myself but the other part of me says to do it. Normally I'd back out hoping to make him feel some type of way, that doesn't happen. But I'm starting school soon (hopefully before the trip) and once that really gears up, I don't think I'll have much free time. I really enjoyed my last trip. My co-agents are awesome. They are Disney weirdos just like me. We have a great chance to see things we wouldn't as normal guests. The last trip we werent speaking when he dropped me at the airport. I'd just love for him to be happy for me.
I understand bsex is important for men, but I saved myself for marriage. I didn't quite make it to the altar before we dtd but he's the only man I've ever had sex with so clearly I need a real emotional connection with someone. Not someone who will rub my feet and mark a tally in his head that he did it and then see what he gets in return.
I know this isn't it. I know that. I'm really hoping that school will give me what I need to feel secure to leave.

Me: BW
WH had an EA for over a year with cow. Sexting anytime he wanted (his words).
DDay June 25 2018

posts: 242   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2018
id 8709625
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NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 10:13 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

Wives getting what they want from their husbands using sex as a tool. Is this a real thing?

Yes, it's real and it's terrible. What's worse is when the H has absolutely no clue that it's happening and he's played like a fiddle. But this really has nothing to do with your situation. Unless I am missing something, your H appears to just be selfish more so than attempting to manipulate you.

It is possible that your M would benefit from more intimacy. I can't speak of what you both need. But it's possible. If so and you're having a hard time figuring that out with the newborn, have you asked him if an ol' "hand shammy" or something else short of the full production would suffice in a pinch? That isn't to say that you jump when he says jump. But if you admittedly feel that you two need more intimacy, maybe you both would benefit from both of you being somewhat flexible during the challenging days with a newborn?

Aside from that, your H doesn't sound as though he's being very thoughtful of practical needs you have in some departments. If he's acting like a spoiled brat I don't know what to say. It's hard to have an adult conversation with a child. But if he's lashing out because he feels he is being neglected sexually with a baby being used as a convenient excuse(only the two of you know), have a heart to heart. But being a WH that's lashing out either out of hurt or as an immature adult doesn't really help the case of you warming up to him and you helping him/you both out in the intimacy dept.

I know that my W used sex (or the lack thereof) as a bargaining chip/reward/punishment for almost 2 decades and she ABSOLUTELY used any and all excuses that were plausible including our children. So I happen to know it's possible to know you're being neglected as a H. To be clear, I'm not painting you with that brush but I am tempering my words based on my own experiences. Btw, today is our 21 year anniversary and I am pleased to say that is no longer a challenge I face.

Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid.

posts: 275   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2020
id 8709640
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