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Respectful dialogue about Covid

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:42 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

Frustration at two more funerals this week that didn't have to happen.

That's the reason you see people having a hard time controlling their emotions. My cousin's husband who wound up in the hospital and lost 30 lbs in a week and is lucky to still be with us spent the last nearly two years very vocally anti-vax and anti-mask and it is nothing short of a miracle that it took him this long to catch it. Given his attitudes about it being just a minor illness easily treated and his anger at being asked to mitigate potential harm during a pandemic, he likely spread his case around over three states on a work trip before he got so sick that he decided to get tested. Even then he was trying to get hold of some ivermectin because he trusted that more than he trusted things actually meant to treat COVID.

I love this man. He is as much my family as he would have been if he'd been born into it. He's not a bad person. He was just wrong about this. The anger I battled was that he would risk his life over beliefs that have no scientific merit and that he was putting others who could not get vaccinated (like Tanner's boys) at risk. I was angry that he put his daughters through potentially losing their father and getting sick themselves. One did, but she is okay thankfully. She slept for several days. My cousin was vaccinated and had the sniffles, but she is a dental hygienist and was unable to work for a couple of weeks because she was at risk and then because she tested positive. Thankfully he's okay, but they'll owe thousands of dollars in hospital bills. Someone who has kids like Tanner's may now be dealing with a child in the hospital because this man went around deciding to ignore medical advice breathing on everyone.

I don't want to be right about this. I want it to be no big deal. I want us to get the sniffles if anything and just carry on. I don't want people to go into the hospital for what could have been a very minor sickness if vaccinated. I don't want strong robust people like my cousin's husband to come out of it looking like he just went through cancer treatments and still struggling to breathe normally. I don't want to be right. I want you to be right. I really really want you to be right. You aren't. I don't say that disrespectfully. I want Tanner's kids to be fine. I want everyone to be fine. I've known enough people who died or have had their health stripped possibly permanently from them to just breezily be "yeah, no big deal, you do you and we'll all live in harmony". I don't know how to discuss this without having feelings because I have lost and nearly lost people and it is emotionally depleting. I can't even imagine how it must be for doctors and nurses. There's no argument with any basis in scientific research and reality that aligns with the average person not getting vaccinated. Some people truly cannot and those are the people we need to get vaccinated for to protect. I didn't get vaccinated because I was worried that I might die. I got vaccinated because I was worried that if I didn't, other people might die. This new variant makes us more likely to have breakthrough cases, so I go about my day when I need to be out and about behaving as if I might have it. I mask up. I social distance. I instacart my groceries a good part of the time. I'm vaccinated and boosted, so I might not even notice if I did contract it, but the unvaccinated person nearby would pay the price. Had all of us who could have gotten vaccinated, maybe there would be no new variant. As long as we aren't, the variants will continue and they make my vaccine less protective and yes, that also angers and saddens me. We really could have done better globally than this. We've failed this test as a species.

So I mean you no disrespect as a person, but how can we have this discussion without feelings? We don't have to attack each other personally, but I can't in good conscience be like "it's all good, no worries". Being wrong can be a death sentence for someone. I've given up on convincing anyone of anything. At this point I express that I'm looking to people who have dedicated their lives to studying these things and I wind up sitting back and watching things play out because I'm told that Joe Rogan or whatever is more reliable than virologists. My words don't matter. My feelings on this don't matter. What actually happens day in and day out to real human beings does matter.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 5:47 PM, Friday, January 7th]

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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ISurvivedSoFar ( Guide #56915) posted at 5:55 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

I have been watching this thread - yes there is a lot of emotion in the content here. I think most important though is something Tanner said.

I know it’s an ever changing virus so we have to change up our habits.

If we can all realize this - that what worked with an earlier version of the virus might not work now and that we need to continue to be vigilant and respect our fellow citizens, which includes taking precautions particularly if you know you've gotten exposed. Even if not, if there are some protocols that MIGHT help protect others we should care about adhering to them on the chance that we may be able to stave off some of the contagions. I think that may be what the OP wanted to convey.

Viruses and individual immunities are at play here and we have no idea about all of the intricacies that will factor into someone getting it or not. We each make a decision to do the best we can. We shouldn't however, have disregard for others in terms of our behavior and in terms of our reaction to others unless they are putting someone in harms way - much like infidelity where the WS puts the BS in harms way by having sex with someone else and not divulging it. There is an analogy here and I was determined to leverage it. smile

@Tanner and anyone else who has been impacted by this awful virus, I am terribly sorry for your pain and your loss.

COVID has hit my family too - I am triple vaxxed and got this latest strain. My H is triple vaxxed and he did not get it. We have slept in the same bed sans masks the entire time even though we took many other precautions. He is the one with immuno-compromised system and always gets everything. I have no risk factors and hardly ever get anything and yet I got it. I was offered monoclonal treatment but declined as I did not have symptoms strong enough to use someone else's dose since they are putting people into a lottery in my state.

I will still wear a mask (and I am testing negative now) when going into stores, etc. because I would never want anybody to be at risk because of me. When the cases go way down I will reconsider going back to Tanner's statement about an every changing virus and changing our habits.

We don't have all the answers and we likely never will. We are spreading fear because of uncertainty, frustration and exhaustion. I'm glad we are starting to show compassion on this thread.

Be well and please take care of yourselves.

DDay Nov '16
Me: BS, a.k.a. MommaDom, Him: WS
2 DD's: one adult, one teen,1 DS: adult
Surviving means we promise ourselves we will get to the point where we can receive love and give love again.

posts: 2819   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2017
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HFSSC ( member #33338) posted at 6:31 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

DevastatedDee,

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

You have articulated exactly my feelings that I've been unable to convey. I have been hurt so deeply by some of the people who should have been my safest places. And even now, when I try to reconnect, instead of having my experience validated and amends made, I'm "forgiven" for having been angry or hurt. I'm told that of course I'm loved and respected. I can wear a mask anytime I want to. I'm just seriously like, "That's what you got out of whatever I just said?"

Anyway, just reading your post was incredibly cathartic and healing for me. So thank you for sharing that.

I do have a few questions/thoughts that have never really been addressed by people on the other side of masking and vaxxing from me. And this is sincerely from my heart. I WANT to understand this.

For anyone who has chosen to not follow certain recommendations, whether it's masking or distancing or vaccination, who also does trust other health related recommendations, how does that thought process happen? How/where do you decide that you can trust "medicine" or "the establishment" or "whoever" in regards to this but not that? I have friends whose son is a Type 1 diabetic. He's very high risk. They don't mask and won't vaccinate. But they are all over his diabetes treatment and monitoring. It just hurts my brain to try to understand.

Another example: I see parents who slather sunscreen all over their kids because we've been told to protect them from UV. Do we really know what's in that stuff? Sure, there's an ingredients label, but we really just have to trust that there isn't some chemical in there that will turn us all into Oompa Loompas or something. We brush our teeth with fluoride and whatever. Why? Because someone along the way has told us it protects our teeth and tooth decay is bad. Again, trusting "whoever" that the stuff we are squirting on the toothbrush and scrubbing all over our teeth and mouth is going to help us and not harm us.

Tanner, like want2B, I am really sorry for the things you've experienced. I have NO issue whatsoever with people who are doing their best and following the individual advice/recommendation of their health care team.

Want2B, I've submitted a link for approval but I searched the page you mentioned along with "vaccine adverse effects" and was able to find an article from September addressing that issue.

Me, 54
Him, 45 (JMSSC)
Married 24 years. Reconciled.

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Tanner ( member #72235) posted at 6:57 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

Tanner, nothing was aimed at you as I had not read your post. I am so sorry about your children. My apologies if you thought I was speaking about you.

Thank you Jeaniegirl I’m so glad it wasn’t directed at me. I have always liked and appreciated your contribution on SI. Now back to my non Covid discussion hole. smile

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R
BH M 31 years

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 7:13 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

I really really want you to be right. You aren't.

I am not sure what you are saying I am wrong about...but I will go by this quote:

I don't want people to go into the hospital for what could have been a very minor sickness if vaccinated.

People DON'T have to go into the hospital OR die...whether they are vaccinated or not. At least...before the federal government STOPPED allowing the monoclonal antibodies to be widely available. Of all of my friends and family members who had the monoclonal antibody treatments...NOT ONE ended up in the hospital or died. They ALL said they felt better within HOURS.

I asked my doctor about what I could do to get help if I got Covid before I was eligible to be vaccinated. She told me about the monoclonal antibody infusion. From there I broadcast it everywhere...even on this site. Thankfully most of my friends and family members got the infusion or the subcutaneous injection...and I have not lost one friend or family member who tested positive for this virus. I have a mixed group as well...vaccinated and unvaccinated. Not ONE person who has been vaccinated has gotten Covid. Also...not ONE person who was unvaccinated and got Covid ended up in the hospital or died because they had the treatments as soon as they found they were positive.

However...in MY case...I have family members who had life altering adverse reactions to the vaccine. Until we can know WHAT caused this to happen...we are playing russian roulette with our life by taking the vaccine. It is a situation I HATE to find myself in...but it is what it is. The vaccines DO HAVE Adverse reactions. Having therapeutic treatments if/when I get Covid are a better route for ME. I am going to continue to spread information about ALL treatments as much as I can...and not just focus on ONE treatment that isn't able to be used by everyone.

So I mean you no disrespect as a person, but how can we have this discussion without feelings?

We CAN have discussions with RESPECT...I have done it all through this virus smile . I can see BOTH sides...I WISH it would be as simple as just taking a vaccine to get on with our lives...but I KNOW differently. Since we ARE living with this virus...we should at least talk about what has HELPED us.

There are plenty of other threads on here bashing the unvaccinated...and people can be as disrespectful to us unvaccinated as they want without any repercussions. I would really LIKE for us to have talks about what will HELP without the bashing. After what happened to Tanner...I doubt anyone will come on here and discuss this now sad .

Even if not, if there are some protocols that MIGHT help protect others we should care about adhering to them on the chance that we may be able to stave off some of the contagions. I think that may be what the OP wanted to convey.

Yes ma'am...thank you for understanding this is what I wanted this thread to be about smile .

We are spreading fear because of uncertainty, frustration and exhaustion.

I think the spreading of fear is a HUGE issue. Bringing things to light...talking about it with respect for everyone's perspective...this can stop that fear. At least for me it has smile .

Be well and please take care of yourselves.

My sentiment too grin !! An outbreak has happened where my H is working right now. He just told me when he came home for lunch...so I may have been exposed through him. Without being able to have monoclonal antibody infusions available where I live...it may be a crap shoot on whether I survive Omicron IF I get it. If I don't survive...I better get a whole bunch of emojis OUT before I go blink wink !!! At least people who know me won't be saying how I said the virus wasn't real...or they might tongue . My faith in God won't waver either way smile .

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 7:33 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

Thank you, Dee. That's it, exactly it. I want to be wrong, but the millions of people who are dead from this virus are mute testimony that I am not.

I have a Facebook friend, not someone I know personally, who is the kindest, most amazing woman in many ways. I can't go into huge detail because it might be too identifying, but she gives a great deal of time to a local charity that helps people deal with loss. I'm a big fan... except of her approach to COVID. She posted against masking and vaccination, joined boycotts of businesses with mandates, shared GoFundMe's for lawsuits against hospitals that required their staff to get the jab, promoted unproven remedies, and did some other things that I can't elaborate on without violating a guideline. She didn't spend as much energy on these activities as she did to her charity work, but her position was clear, and she used it to encourage others to "fight back" against a perceived conspiracy of Big Pharma, doctors, and the government.

Her husband, who is the light of her life, is now going into his third week of hospitalization with COVID. In the first week, her posts were all stunned terror and requests for prayers. In the second, they shifted to a loud protest that vaccination wouldn't have helped because "COVID follows no rules." Now it's just silence. Reading some of what I see here helps me understand the other side of what she's going through -- attacks and judgment when she's deeply suffering. I don't condone that. At the same time, sticks and stones can't break her bones, while the attacks and judgment she posted helped create a monster that can.

It's pretty clear by now that anyone can get Omicron. But it's not true that it's hitting vaxxed people as hard as unvaxxed. And what really gets me is that previous strains of COVID did follow the rules, in the sense that they couldn't get a foothold if you were vaccinated. But it keeps mutating, and medical science can't play its side of the chess board fast enough. What would have stopped it are the measures that so many people opposed so loudly -- vaccines, masking, lockdown. Therapeutics would not. They can save an individual but do nothing to prevent the spread.

If the next strain is just as contagious as Omicron and five times as deadly, then people may finally decide that it's worth their time to vaccinate, only we won't have a vaccine that works anymore. That's why I'm so angry and frustrated. It is not just "you decide for you, I decide for me, and we all get along." That's true of things like fluoride and sunscreen where only your body is affected. When it comes to a pandemic, the human population is the body. Thinking we can only vaccinate half the population is like trying to heat half of a full pot of water.

Edited to add: the first thing the hospital did when he went in was administer Remdesivir. He was in a coma two days later, which was five days after he first tested positive.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 7:37 PM, Friday, January 7th]

WW/BW

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 7:51 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

If the next strain is just as contagious as Omicron and five times as deadly, then people may finally decide that it's worth their time to vaccinate, only we won't have a vaccine that works anymore. That's why I'm so angry and frustrated. It is not just "you decide for you, I decide for me, and we all get along." That's true of things like fluoride and sunscreen where only your body is affected. When it comes to a pandemic, the human population is the body. Thinking we can only vaccinate half the population is like trying to heat half of a full pot of water.

That is my worry too. If that happens, then it won't matter. We needed to do a better job of taking care of one another for all of our sakes.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 5027   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
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leafields ( member #63517) posted at 7:53 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

before the federal government STOPPED allowing the monoclonal antibodies to be widely available

1. The drugs are in short supply.
2. The drugs aren't effective against the variant prevalent in your region
3. The drugs are being sent to areas where they are effective against the variant in the region

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 8:28 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

I realize this will fall on deaf ears, especially considering this thread has turned into the typical SI COVID thread but here you go anyway.

I understand the Americans on this site have not seen a level of compliance with public health mandates as other nations have. I’m also aware that because of that, it’s hard to see the problems with the solution. But I’ll offer this, over the past few weeks, my province has been watching our hospitalizations, those in the icu and death percentages fall in line with our vaccination percentages. As in 81% of our COVID cases are fully vaxxed. 60% of hospitalizations are fully vaxxed. 60% of ICU are fully vaxxed. 22% of deaths are fully vaxxed. Our vaccination rate is 74% (was 85% not long ago, but they just added the 5-11 age group a month ago.). These numbers have been climbing for the fully vaxxed and the next report will be very curious. For what it’s worth, masks are mandatory everywhere and social distancing. And the unvaxxed are only allowed to shop or outdoor activities.

So take what you want from that, but it’s what’s happening here. Be careful with your arguments though, millions upon millions upon millions of COVID survivors could point to their survival as them being right. Happy bashings.

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 8:33 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

I asked my doctor about what I could do to get help if I got Covid before I was eligible to be vaccinated. She told me about the monoclonal antibody infusion. From there I broadcast it everywhere...even on this site. Thankfully most of my friends and family members got the infusion or the subcutaneous injection...and I have not lost one friend or family member who tested positive for this virus. I have a mixed group as well...vaccinated and unvaccinated. Not ONE person who has been vaccinated has gotten Covid. Also...not ONE person who was unvaccinated and got Covid ended up in the hospital or died because they had the treatments as soon as they found they were positive.

I checked with my cousin before I responded to this to be entirely sure that I was being factual. Her husband did have the infusion two days before he was admitted to the hospital and put on lord knows how many treatments to keep him alive. She can't even remember everything they did, but of course she wasn't able to be there and keep track. He's in his mid-40s. Didn't consider himself high risk enough to worry about it.

I've seen not one vaccinated person in my life need treatments of any kind, though I'd say at least half of the unvaccinated did. That's if you include steroids to fight the breathing issues and panicky trips to the ER. If you truly cannot get the vaccine for health reasons, I want everyone who can around you to get it to protect you. I want you safe.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 8:34 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

I don't know where you are, Loukas, but I can't find a study for any region I can think of saying that most hospitalizations are of vaccinated people.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 8:36 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

So take what you want from that, but it’s what’s happening here. Be careful with your arguments though, millions upon millions upon millions of COVID survivors could point to their survival as them being right. Happy bashings.

I survived a severe car accident without airbags or a seatbelt on as a teenager.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 8:42 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

FWIW the Walter Reed has a vaccine just now completing phase 1 trials that targets a more generic gene fragment. Whether it's effective in-vitro in humans against multiple sar-cov2 variants is yet to be determined as that's typically Phase 2 testing.

Pre-clinical studies indicated that SpFN induces very strong antibody responses in patients, curbing the virus that causes COVID-19 infection, as well as three major SARS-CoV-2 variants and the SARS-CoV-1 virus.

[This message edited by grubs at 8:43 PM, Friday, January 7th]

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 8:58 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

As in 81% of our COVID cases are fully vaxxed. 60% of hospitalizations are fully vaxxed. 60% of ICU are fully vaxxed. 22% of deaths are fully vaxxed. Our vaccination rate is 74% (was 85% not long ago, but they just added the 5-11 age group a month ago.).

The fact that only 22% of deaths are fully vax with at least 74% of the population being vaxxed would appear to show a very large protection factor against death from being vaccinated. That is 78% of the deaths are coming from 26% of the population. Since Covid's impacts vary very much by age group you really need to break down those stats into age groups and compare the vax/non vax rates in each range by million population. If your area is similar to mine you likely have those 70 years + vaccinated at a much higher rate as the general populace. It is also the population most at risk, for covid or flu, therefore most likely to be hospitalized, end up in the ICU, or die from it.

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 9:07 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

W2B, has your family heard of CORBEVAX? I just read about it today. It's a more traditional protein subunit COVID vaccine that has received emergency use authorization in India. I have hopes that it will help overcome vaccine hesitation from people who are wary of the MRNA technology. Bonus, since it's not under patent, it's far more economical.

The one downside is what I posted above: its efficacy is dropping with each new variant, and they can't update it as quickly as the MRNA.


As in 81% of our COVID cases are
fully vaxxed. 60% of hospitalizations are fully vaxxed. 60% of ICU are fully vaxxed. 22% of deaths are fully vaxxed. Our vaccination rate is 74% (was 85% not long ago, but they just added the 5-11 age group a month ago.). These numbers have been climbing for the fully vaxxed and the next report will be very curious.

I guess it makes sense to me that cases would be up in vaxxed people as opposed to unvaxxed if vaxxed are the only ones who are allowed to go anywhere. It's established that Omicron is contagious and symptomatic even in vaxxed and boosted people. Still, those numbers puzzle me. Are they from a government website? I saw a doctored chart last week on a friend's feed that purported to be cases in Saskatchewan. When I checked it against the official site, the graphic was the same but the counts were completely off.

The best solution to this, at least in the short term, is total worldwide lockdown. But there's absolutely no way that's happening in several nations, including, alas, mine. If we'd all done that when Italy did, we wouldn't be in this mess now.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 9:15 PM, Friday, January 7th]

WW/BW

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 9:30 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

I have been hurt so deeply by some of the people who should have been my safest places.

Sadly...MANY of us have had this happen sad .

How/where do you decide that you can trust "medicine" or "the establishment" or "whoever" in regards to this but not that?

I can't speak for anyone else...but for ME...I trust what I have seen to be true. My doctor advised me to get the monoclonal antibody infusion instead of hydroxychloroquine...which were the only two treatments I could have gotten at the point when I asked her. She said I was a candidate at that point because of I was obese.

I have seen what happened when a vaccine was given and adverse reactions happened. I would LOVE to see that article you mentioned!! It was around that time that the last family member had their reaction...so it may be very relevant!! I have seen other articles from other epidemiologists that mention these reactions so I know it isn't just MY family that ends up like this crying . However...THESE epidemiologists have been banned from certain social media sites. I can't get as much information anymore...and it is really frustrating.

Do we really know what's in that stuff?

I don't smile . I did not get the dark skin like my fellow Cajuns did...so I SLATHER that stuff on all over laugh . But I would find something else if this gave the same kind of adverse reactions that the vaccine has done.

I want to be wrong, but the millions of people who are dead from this virus are mute testimony that I am not.

To ME...this isn't a matter of being right or wrong. Even MORE people...MILIONS MORE...have survived this virus...so this isn't going to help anyone by saying someone is RIGHT or WRONG for what they do.

Thinking we can only vaccinate half the population is like trying to heat half of a full pot of water.

It doesn't HAVE to be an either/or situation. In MY case...it can't be. I'm NOT the only one with this issue. There ARE adverse reactions AND death associated with the vaccines. Just because it is not talked about doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

1. The drugs are in short supply.
2. The drugs aren't effective against the variant prevalent in your region
3. The drugs are being sent to areas where they are effective against the variant in the region

EXACTLY. We have heard various statements of ALL of these...even though they contradict each other rolleyes .

The infusions were never in short supply in MY state. Even when Hurricane Ida hit and destroyed our only hospital where the infusions were given...a makeshift infusion site was set up. Then we heard that Omicron was the dominant strain in our area and the infusions didn't work on it. When it was found that Delta was still very prominent...we still couldn't get the infusions.

I realize this will fall on deaf ears, especially considering this thread has turned into the typical SI COVID thread

It sure looks like you are right...but I do appreciate your input smile .

As in 81% of our COVID cases are fully vaxxed. 60% of hospitalizations are fully vaxxed. 60% of ICU are fully vaxxed. 22% of deaths are fully vaxxed.

Our state doesn't show ICU percentages...but the latest statistics from 12/23-12/29 show that fully vaccinated people make up 34% of cases...22% of hospitalizations...and 26% of deaths. It is still in the minority...but since Omicron the cases went from about 10% of fully vaccinated people in most of these situations to what they are now.

I checked with my cousin before I responded to this to be entirely sure that I was being factual. Her husband did have the infusion two days before he was admitted to the hospital and put on lord knows how many treatments to keep him alive.

The infusions work WELL with other variants of Covid before the viral load gets too high...usually within 10 days of the symptoms showing. That is why all but one of them doesn't work with Omicron. These antibodies attach to the spike protein of most of the variants and keeps it from entering the cell. Omicron doesn't have these spikes...so most of the infusions don't work well because of that. If your cousin's husband has Omicron...and had one of the infusions that can't attach to it...that would explain why.

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 9:41 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

W2B, has your family heard of CORBEVAX?

I have NOT...I will look into that...THANKS grin !!!

FWIW the Walter Reed has a vaccine just now completing phase 1 trials that targets a more generic gene fragment. Whether it's effective in-vitro in humans against multiple sar-cov2 variants is yet to be determined as that's typically Phase 2 testing.

...I will look into this as well...THANK YOU too grin !!!

Some other things I thought about...when we are traveling...we try to go to the LOVE'S Truckstops smile . They disinfect the bathrooms every 30 minutes! YES...I talked to one of the attendants laugh !!!

Every time I get my mail or any other package...I wash my hands after I handle them....STILL smile . I have heard like everyone else that this is mostly an airborne virus...but those droplets go somewhere!!

Has anyone else's doctor given them advice on Vitamin D or any other regimen? My doctor didn't tell me about the Zinc...but my H was given it when he had Covid so I take it now too. I am REALLY hoping this will help me with my seasonal allergies in the springtime if nothing else smile .

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6188   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8708408
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sad12008 ( member #18179) posted at 9:43 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

My aunt died of polio, pregnant with her third child, shortly before a vaccine became available. Her death left a swath of loss and grief throughout the whole family. The impact was profound and lasting; seismic one could even say. The polio vaccine, the successful one, was developed "rapidly"...and this was prior to the aid of computers, the internet, etc. There is ample information on the development of the Salk vaccine online, particularly through the NIH (I was going to post an easy link but can't).

There's a concept of "the greater good". That's why we have vaccinations required for school admission. Personal health decisions are one thing; choosing not to continue treatment for cancer is a personal health decision. That's fine, because it's affecting one patient. No one else will contract cancer because you refuse treatment. Refusing vaccination, however, does not only affect one patient. Therein lies the rub. I am educated and trained in the sciences. It was HARD stuff, complex and difficult to learn, vast amounts of information, and I am a lowly character in the greater scheme of science. I am blown away by the arrogance of ignorance, or perhaps as a twist of the expression, the bliss of ignorance when people dismiss the recommendations of the best minds on the subject matter. It's like someone who can pluck a few tunes on a guitar (or who has perhaps never even picked up a guitar!) arguing technique with Eric Clapton, Joe Bonomassa, Jimmy Page, etc. I just don't get it. I find it offensive. I have a child who had an organ transplant and who must take immunosuppressants; she could get sick and die because someone who's fortunate enough to be hale and hearty didn't see any need to be vaccinated, or who felt their knowledge on the science was superior to that of the nation's top experts in infectious diseases. Hard to not get p*ssed off by that. As a military veteran, in order to serve this country I had to be injected with all manner of things. Extra bonus goodies if sent overseas. Sometimes you've just got to do what you've got to do. Rights are great, but they come with the burden of responsibilities.

You can't fill a cup with no bottom.

posts: 4276   ·   registered: Feb. 13th, 2008   ·   location: a new start together
id 8708409
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Loukas ( member #47354) posted at 10:06 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

Still, those numbers puzzle me.

As they did to me. I actually thought I had mixed up the colours on the charts after initially reading it. Yes it’s a government site, our weekly report for Dec 19-25. Next one is due in three days. I’m sure you can imagine the smile on the faces of those who firmly oppose the vaccines. Which does no one any good, obviously, but at the same time, I can’t blame them as they’ve been made to be the villains for quite some time now. Just sad all around.

@Grubs, I hear what you are saying, but here’s where it gets real simple for places like us with massive vaccination rates, we’re running out of unvaxxed to compare against. Our government claims 100% for the over 70 group. And it’s somewhere around 80% and above for all others age groups with the exception of 5-11. But the point wasn’t the numbers specifically, it’s that the narrative of the vaccines keeping people from dying and hospitalizations is losing it’s foothold. And with it, it’s scapegoat. But all the same, folks are still being hospitalized and dying regardless of vaccination status, so maybe the least we can do is support each other.

[This message edited by Loukas at 10:19 PM, Friday, January 7th]

posts: 1858   ·   registered: Mar. 29th, 2015   ·   location: The school of hard knocks
id 8708412
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number4 ( member #62204) posted at 10:14 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

People DON'T have to go into the hospital OR die...whether they are vaccinated or not. At least...before the federal government STOPPED allowing the monoclonal antibodies to be widely available.

You keep pushing the monoclonal antibodies, but even months ago, in our large metropolitan area, they were being rationed. It is in fantasyland, that around here, you could just walk in and ask for them. My doctor told me the hoops he tried to jump through to get them for one of his patients who had co-morbidities, and he was told the patient wasn't 'sick' enough, although he was having raging symptoms. Yes, that's only one direct anecdote that I heard, but I've read in our local news that they have been difficult to find. They are triaging who gets them... meaning, clinics and hospitals are deciding whether you are eligible. It's just not realistic around our metro area to walk into any clinic or hospital and ask for them; this is how it's been for months, not just in the last couple of weeks.

So it's not a panacea, at least not around our 10 million metro area.

Me: BW
Him: WH
Married - 30+ years
Two adult daughters
1st affair: 2005-2007
2nd-4th affairs: 2016-2017
Many assessments/polygraph: no sex addiction
Status: R

posts: 1032   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2018   ·   location: Southern California
id 8708416
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