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Off Topic :
Respectful dialogue about Covid

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 10:17 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

In my area 9 hospitals report 90% of hospitalized covid patients are unvaccinated. Another 8% had their vaccination more than six months ago.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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WTAF ( member #79274) posted at 12:00 AM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

My daughter-in-law's hospital is seeing primarily unvaccinated patients admitted.

posts: 83   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2021   ·   location: All up in my feelings
id 8708430
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 2:34 AM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

There are a lot of people who actually got vaccinated and boosted but don't admit it or actually lie about it (even going on tv and spreading falsehoods and lies about vaccines). I consider this behavior to be manslaughter and think it should be prosecuted. How dare you protect yourself and encourage others to risk their lives? So selfish.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5346   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 3:41 AM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

at least...before the federal government STOPPED allowing the monoclonal antibodies to be widely available.

W2B - I ask this in all earnestness, and with no ill will or intent....

What is your knowledge/understanding of who makes these monoclonal treatments? Or HOW they are made? Or how LONG it takes to make them?

Do you believe the govt is just stockpiling them and not giving out all they have? Do do believe the the vast majority of scientists who have said evidence shows 2 of the 3 treatments are not effective against Omicron are lying to the public about the ineffectiveness?

I'm really not trying to be snarky, so I TRULY hope you can take this in the spirit intended. I just cannot get my head around the idea that these treatments would be stopped / denied (with already fatal results for thousands) "just because" or as some political punishment or something like that.

As I've said before, the distribution model DID change in Sept. and one reason is that states were NOT getting allocated based on population. It was super easy for me to find the tables that show how many doses, of which treatments, each state receives each week, going back for several months. Turns out that before the 9/21 changes, more than 70% of all treatments were going to a mere SEVEN states (TN, AL, MS, FL, GA, LA & Tx), only three of which are in the top 10 by population (Tx, Fl, GA), and including MS, which is #35 - out of 50 - in population (my state - which is not on that list, has more than 2x the pop of MS). So, I can absolutely understand why someone who lived in those 7 states would feel short changed - and I suppose the reality is they were, bc their allocation likely decreased. BUT, shouldn't those in the other 43 states, who were sharing the remaining 30% of the doses, have access to their share as well? Or do you disagree that these treatments are in VERY limited supply? or that the govt can somehow force more doses to be made quickly?

W2B, I am trying to be respectful, but I honestly don't know if I've crossed any lines here. So if I have offended in any way, I'm gonna apologize in advance, I really don't intend any disrespect.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:44 AM, Saturday, January 8th]

M >25yrs/grown kids
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9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 4:59 AM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Serious questions...I'll number them for convenience. smile

1. It seems that the general concession is you can have the vaccine but still both catch and transmit covid. If that is true, how is someone who is unvaccinated putting someone who is vaccinated at greater risk?

2. It seems that another general concession is that even if the vaccine will not prevent you from getting/spreading the virus, it WILL greatly decrease the likelihood of requiring hospitalization. If that is true and given that the rate of vaccination is only increasing not decreasing, why the worry for hospital incapacity now? Shouldn't every vaccination be continually decreasing the strain on hospitals?

3. If masks work to mitigate the spread of covid, why is there not a greater push/education or requirement on the type of mask? Lots of places that you can both buy and acceptably wear "breathable" masks. It's not hard to figure out what makes them more breathable.

4. If vaccines are needed to demonstrate some degree of immunity, why is testing for natural antibodies not an acceptable form of immunity?

5. In the past, vaccinations greatly reduced the chance of catching a virus - often to the degree of the complete eradication of the virus. If it is well accepted that these current vaccines do not yet provide true/full immunity, does that not then make them leaky vaccines - meaning that since they don't eradicate the virus they are actually putting additional pressure on the the virus to mutate?

These are but a few of the conflicting issues I have. I appreciate any thoughtful responses.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 5:02 AM, Saturday, January 8th]

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 5:36 AM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

1. The vaccine minimizes the likelihood of getting it thus giving it to others, so by not bothering to get vaccinated, you are not even trying to reduce or eliminate the case load and creating a greater likelihood of getting and infecting. Each strain is different, but had people run out and gotten vaccinated immediately, there would be no/fewer variants to combat.

2. We are not increasing vaccination percentages by enough people to reduce strain on hospitals. See answer to #1.

3. We can't get people to wear ANY mask, and you want someone (who?) to enforce the type of mask? laugh I have seen many articles talking about cloth not being effective for Omicron, so the info is out there if you want to protect yourself. I wear two masks, a surgical with a cloth mask over it for fit.

4. Natural antibodies are not nearly as helpful (length of time protected, quantity of antibodies) as full vaccination and subsequent boosters, although there is some protection. The info has been published.

5. What is your info on vaccinations being so effective that they eliminated diseases but Covid vaccinations did not? I don't think that is true. Two doses of polio are 90% effective at prevention, two doses of chicken pox are also 90% effective, and two doses of Pfizer are 91% effective against the original variant. The CDC immediately said, "Hurry and get vaccinated before it mutates! Time is of the essence!" We required polio and chicken pox, and they were then eradicated. They were childhood diseases also, not all ages, so less people to immunize. But THAT is the big difference--requiring. Had we been able to require Covid, it would have been eradicated. But it mutated instead due to a wide-open breeding ground.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:38 AM, Saturday, January 8th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5346   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 5:44 AM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Here is a question I have:

If everyone getting vaccines is fine (we are)...

And everyone has had many other vaccines (polio, hepatitis, etc.) already in their lifetime and is fine (you are)...

And if people are continuing to get very sick and go on ventilators and die horrible, early deaths (they do)...

Why would you be more afraid of the vaccine than the actual illness?????? The vaccinated are not at all sick from the vaccines, and the unvaccinated are so very ill, so why more afraid of the vaccines? Afraid of what????? Why are you not afraid of getting sick when so many have been so ill for so long?

Covid is scary as hell.

My only enemy in the mask/vaccine/Covid debate is COVID--the rat bastard. These two years have sucked. I just want to beat its ass to the ground and run around mask free, eating and drinking inches from my friends' faces, and smooching my family members on the lips. My parents are terrified. My mother-in-law is terrified. They have given up so much to try to stay healthy and live a longer life. And I hate that bitch Covid so badly for doing this to us. I'll do whatever it takes to pulverize it into submission. Covid is my only enemy. I wish everyone would join me in that--let's kill Covid, make it deader than dead. That should be our only focus.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:59 AM, Saturday, January 8th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 2:15 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Can anyone explain why the variants are named after the greek alphabet and why they went from Delta to Omicron? They skipped a bunch.


The letters of the Greek alphabet are: alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa, lambda, mu, nu1, xi, omicron, pi1, rho, sigma, tau, upsilon, phi, chi1, psi1, omega.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 2:32 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

As in 81% of our COVID cases are fully vaxxed. 60% of hospitalizations are fully vaxxed. 60% of ICU are fully vaxxed. 22% of deaths are fully vaxxed. Our vaccination rate is 74% (was 85% not long ago, but they just added the 5-11 age group a month ago.).


In Ontario as of Jan 6th:


The province said that of the 319 people in the ICU with COVID-19, 232 are not fully vaccinated or have an unknown vaccination status and 87 are fully vaccinated.

According to data released by the Ontario Science Table on Wednesday, which takes into account population sizes, people who are fully vaccinated with at least two doses are 80.1 per cent less likely to end up in hospital and 92.2 per cent less likely to end up in ICU compared to people who are unvaccinated.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

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Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 3:01 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Thanks Dragn, I get my stats from the same site as you.

Loukas, check your data source, the numbers seem misaligned.

Legally separated, one more step.

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 3:38 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Owningitnow, I can tell you why some people are afraid of the vaccine.

My DD and her BF both read the misinformation being circulated on the internet so they were both scared. I asked my DD to talk to an educated health care professional about her concerns. She did and she and her boyfriend have since been vaccinated.

I have family members that cite religious reasons even though the leaders of our religion are vaccinated and encouraged us to do the same. They also believe every single piece of misinformation put on the internet.

I know of a church that is an off shoot of my religion that has a leader telling his followers NOT to get vaccinated and that it is a sin.

This is why I get so upset about misinformation being put out there. It scares people and confuses them.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 4:27 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

I found the following an interesting read. I do wonder in these kinds of discussions if people are aware just how different these mRNA vaccines are from prior vaccines...especially when they suggest the vaccines are safe because they were "fine" after receiving the vaccines or when they suggest that because I received a polio vaccine I should have no issue with these current vaccines.

(Natural News) A new paper published in The Lancet suggests that the more "vaccines" a person gets injected with for the Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19), the faster his or her body succumbs to an AIDS-like immune wasting syndrome called VAIDS.

Vaccine Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome begins immediately following the first round of injections. And experts worry that with each subsequent "booster" shot, this process of "immune erosion," as they call it, only continues to accelerate.

For their research, scientists compared the health outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated people in Sweden. Roughly 1.6 million individuals in both groups were studied over the course of nine months.

What was discovered is that the fully vaccinated only have a smattering of immune protection for a very short amount of time – at most six months. After that, the artificial "immunity" provoked by the injections wanes rapidly, leaving a fully vaccinated person with no protection against infection of any kind, just like AIDS.

The unvaccinated, meanwhile, were found to maintain true and lasting immunity because their bodies were not jabbed with immune degrading spike proteins and other mystery chemicals that we now know chip away at the immune system week after week post-injection.

"Doctors are calling this phenomen[on] in the repeatedly vaccinated ‘immune erosion’ or ‘acquired immune deficiency,’ accounting for elevated incidence of myocarditis and other post-vaccine illnesses that either affect them more rapidly, resulting in death, or more slowly, resulting in chronic illness," reported America’s Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) about the study’s findings.

Covid jabs initiate a cascading failure of the body’s immune response
It is important to remember that covid vaccines are not actually vaccines, at least not in the traditional sense. What they do is cause cells throughout the body to produce just one small portion of the alleged SARS-CoV-2 virus: the spike protein.

As we have long warned, these injections are turning people’s bodies into walking spike protein factories, which causes the body to create antibodies to them. There are serious problems with this, however, that lead to the progressive degradation of the body’s immune capacity and functionality.

"First, these vaccines ‘mis-train’ the immune system to recognize only a small part of the virus (the spike protein)," AFLDS explains. "Variants that differ, even slightly, in this protein are able to escape the narrow spectrum of antibodies created by the vaccines."

"Second, the vaccines create ‘vaccine addicts,’ meaning persons become dependent upon regular booster shots, because they have been ‘vaccinated’ only against a tiny portion of a mutating virus," the group adds. "Australian Health Minister Dr. Kerry Chant has stated that COVID will be with us forever and people will ‘have to get used to’ taking endless vaccines. ‘This will be a regular cycle of vaccination and revaccination.’"

A third thing is the simple fact that the jabs do not in any way prevent infection in the nose and upper airways, which is where fully vaccinated people tend to show the highest viral loads. This causes the fully vaccinated to become those ever-dreaded "superspreaders" and a serious danger to society.

Former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson warns that the indefinite and uncontrolled autoimmune response to the coronavirus spike protein that is provoked by these injections could produce "a wave of antibodies called anti-idiotype antibodies or Ab2s that continue to damage human bodies long after clearing either Sars-CoV-2 itself or those spike proteins that the shots cause the body’s cells to produce."

The spike proteins themselves may produce this second wave of antibodies as well, modulating the immune system’s initial response by binding with and ultimately destroying the first wave of antibodies.

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 4:34 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

Doctors and activists with a history of spreading anti-vaccine misinformation are spreading fear about COVID-19 vaccines by falsely claiming the shots cause a new medical condition called vaccine acquired immunodeficiency syndrome.

Widely circulating Twitter and Reddit posts falsely identified VAIDS as an emerging condition that is "similar to AIDS but caused by the C19 jabs." Some social media users kept their posts vague, asking, "What is VAIDS?" Meanwhile, Google searches for the term skyrocketed.

A blogger identified only as "Jack" also claimed to have coined the term, writing on Nov. 23 that "sometimes, a situation calls for the creation of a brand new term," and defining it as the "gradual destruction of the human immune system by vaccines."

In reality, there’s no such thing as VAIDS, and research shows the available COVID-19 vaccines provide recipients with increased protection against the coronavirus.

"AIDS is a generalized body-wide compromise of a specific subset of immune cells (mostly CD4+ lymphocytes) caused specifically by infection with the HIV-1 virus," said Dr. Grant McFadden, director of the Biodesign Center for Immunotherapy, Vaccines and Virotherapy at Arizona State University. "There is no vaccine-induced counterpart of AIDS."

Given that billions of people around the world have already been vaccinated against COVID-19, McFadden said, "if such a thing as VAIDS existed, we would have detected it by now."

A search across legitimate biomedical literature found no mention of vaccine acquired immunodeficiency syndrome.

Research from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and others shows the COVID-19 vaccines boost the immune response. The mRNA vaccines work by training the immune system to recognize the spike protein on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19, allowing it to generate an immune response, experts say.

The AP has debunked other false claims about how COVID-19 vaccines affect the immune system, including claims that they destroy the body’s T cells, that they cause a harmful phenomenon called antibody-dependent enhancement and that they lead to autoimmune disease.

__

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 4:38 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

The unvaccinated, meanwhile, were found to maintain true and lasting immunity because their bodies were not jabbed with immune degrading spike proteins and other mystery chemicals that we now know chip away at the immune system week after week post-injection.


You lost me where they say mystery chemicals. The following is the ingredient list for the Moderna vaccine. Fully available. Nothing mysterious about it. So such an article sorta loses its traction with me when they make such claims.

Medicinal ingredient
mRNA
Other ingredients
1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine
acetic acid
cholesterol
lipid SM-102
polyethylene glycol (PEG) 2000 DMG
sodium acetate
sucrose
tromethamine
tromethamine hydrochloride
water for injection
This vaccine does not contain common food allergens, such as eggs, shellfish, gluten or nuts.

Me: BS 44 nowWH: 35 almost 36 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons.Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that.Full disclosure March 8th 2019 four AP's.

posts: 22731   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 4:52 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

1. Widely circulating Twitter and Reddit posts falsely identified - Attribute this to being sourced as social media disinformation.

2. A blogger identified only as "Jack" also claimed to have coined the term - Identify an easily discreditable "poster child".

3. Research from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and others shows the COVID-19 vaccines boost the immune response. - Repeat the desired narrative.

4. The mRNA vaccines work by training the immune system to recognize the spike protein on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19, allowing it to generate an immune response - Make a statement that is undisputed so as to appear that you are a truth teller.

5. The AP has debunked other false claims - Drop a big name for validation regardless that the source has no education relevant to the core topic.

All pretty typical.

Dee - As an aside, I'd be very interested if you come across an article that actually takes on the Lancet report. I'm not expecting or suggesting you should supply that...would just be interested if you do come across one. I'm just sharing what I find interesting as I'm sure are you. smile

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

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id 8708517
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 4:55 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

I looked at a fair few articles after I shared that. I'm not seeing anything legitimate that supports this theory. I looked it up because having had three vaccines, I wanted to see if I could find anything real to support it but I haven't yet.

This is the kind of thing that's just unfair, though. Without looking hard into it, it has the veneer of sounding like a thing. How are people supposed to just know that it's not? Even I, nerd that I am, had a moment of concern reading that.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 4:58 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

You lost me where they say mystery chemicals.

I get that. I had the same reaction. I know there's been some debate on that...and some prior lots that were found with contamination. But I don't have enough info on any of that to form an informed decision. And as far as wording such as that giving an impression there is a slant - I also agree. Never in my life have I had such trouble finding information that doesn't seem to have a bias.

I provided the article as less absolute...and more as a topic to potentially investigate. Do what you will with the topic of VAID.

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

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id 8708519
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:07 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

I'm not sure about the quality of The Lancet regarding peer review the more I look too. Found this article: Lancet retracts 12-year-old article linking autism to MMR vaccines. The harm done to children by that article was profound and it sat there for 12 years.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:09 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

I can't even find the original article in The Lancet in order to read that itself and see if people on the internet are just twisting it.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:11 PM on Saturday, January 8th, 2022

And Natural News seems to have it's own slant against modern medicine and vaccines in general, so that isn't a reliable source.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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