SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

40s is young. You potentially have the happiest and best part of your life ahead of you.

Holy Moly this woman has put you through the ringer. The web of lies is almost beyond comprehension. I think it is best you give yourself a little time to absorb the facts before pressuring yourself into a final decision. It's okay to catch your breath and sift through the variety of advice you will receive here.

This is a woman capable of great deceit. Not just a little, years of it, and involving your mutual friends. This is also a lesson for us here at SI why we tell the other BS the facts, like John 1's ex wife should have back when she first found out.

You will get through this. If you decide you need to divorce, your kids will be fine as long as cheater doesn't mess with their heads. Divorce, once you get through it, isn't as dark and horrible for you or your children as staying in a marriage with an unrecovered cheater.

Take care and keep up the communication. SI can help you navigate this. Remember also to keep drinking water, eating healthy etc. while you work your way through this mess she has brought into you and your children's lives. Selfishness on this level disgusts me.

I've spent my whole adult life with this woman and feel I should try and give it a go before I pull the trigger and D.

Am I being a complete and utter fool here?

R is possible, but very unlikely. To be honest, you were Plan C not Plan B and certainly not Plan A. You have a WW who cheated with two different men in rapid succession. Of which you know. Serial Cheaters tend to be cheating more often than they are not.

That leads to two problems, your value in her eyes has not been very high or she wouldn't have strayed and risked her M to you twice. R is hard work. Does your WW value you enough to do that work?

The other issue is you not only have to come to terms with her betrayal, but that she choose to be with at least two men over your marriage. Can you ever fell safe with her again or will you be wondering when the next man will catch her attention? Will you be able to do the work necessary to move past it?

About pulling the trigger to D. D is not an instantaneous action. In most places you are looking at a 3-12 month process from the filing date. The process can be stopped or delayed at any point up till the final court date. There's nothing wrong with telling your WW that you are going to file, but you are still open to R. There are also preliminary actions that can be taken to position yourself for this. I would suggest you at minimum start doing those. Spend time with friends and family without your WW. Spend time doing things for just you. Separate finances. Pay down joint debt. Figure out what life without her looks like and take steps to be ready for it.

In the end R/D is your call. You both have to really want to R and be capable of it for it to work. Right now your primary mission should be figuring out whether or not that is the case. I'd think a full timeline of all inappropriate relationships backed by a Poly would be a requirement. You have to know what exactly you are dealing with before you put much effort into R.

[This message edited by grubs at 3:11 PM, Thursday, July 22nd]

She's a serial cheater. They never stop. Oh sure, they'll play the long game, be good for a couple years, then as soon as they think you're over it, it's game on again.

Do you really think these are the only 2 times she has cheated? Chances are very low.

I’m not talking about you I am talking about the men your wife has chosen otherwise. She has picked two duds. I cannot believe that she has not got something hidden in her personality that you’ve never seen but those two men have. I don’t know how you erase that, or fix that, or forget that. She needs deep IC to figure out when she went off the rails.

Sceadugenga - I have to say that is one POV I hadn't considered. The alone bit you are spot on but it may help if I continue the story and this is where you will all probably say WTAF move on already and I kinda get that.....here goes:

I realise it will sound self-aggrandising for me to say it, but after a few weeks of heavy reading on this site you will also know where a story is going about one third in. Details and the degree of egregiousness differ slightly on a case-to-case basis, but the overall scenarios are highly predictable. As you already seem to know, the advice you're going to get is also pretty formulaic "get the fuck out of there!" - simple, honest, commonsensical ... and it works :-)

Ask her to write out a full timeline of both affairs and take a polygraph test. It's possible John 2 wasn't the first either. She's very adept at lying and deceiving you for long periods of time.

If she wants to fix this, she MUST:

- get into IC and figure out why she kept cheating and for so long

- answer any and all of your questions honestly and without defensiveness

- respond to your pain and triggers without asking when you will get over it

- hand over her phone, email, and social media accounts if she has not already

- do anything and everything you need to help you heal

Pick up a copy of "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" and ask her to read it.

You now know why your marriage wasn’t working. It wasn’t you. It was her gibing her live and affection to another. You were not even first in her heart. You were third.

And the guilt she felt over what she was doing prevented her from showing you any affection. That and the fact that she’s actually be cheating on her APs if she was loving to you.

So here is the deal. You cannot rebuild and reconcile with a broken person. And she is very broken.

What if recommend is you tell her she broke her vows and betrayed you with infidelity. Tell her that ended your marriage and you will work to now legally end it since her choices destroyed it.

Then tell her (if you want) that you will keep an open mind for the future. You don’t know what it holds. But she needs to fix what is broken inside her. That means years, yes years, of therapy with an infidelity specialist. She needs to work hardcore on changing who she is.

While you separate and D you of course with work to be the best coparent you can be. But if she is to have a chance with you someday down the road, and there are no guarantees, she’ll work to make the D process as easy as possible.

This woman is very very broken my friend. An work to R is going to take years and has low chances after what she did. Had an affair, went to a friend (your close friend) for help, and had an affair with him. And treated you awfully the whole time.

She was John 1’s wife more than she was ever yours. I’m sorry to say that.

If someday down the road she fixes her brokenness then maybe, if you are available and willing, you can try again. But please don’t try to start that now. I promise you that will never work. You have to know that in your heart.

So tell her there is no other path but thru D. And if you can do that and she starts intense therapy, then that’s the only way there’s even a chance you might end up back together someday.

She says after John2 she knew she had destroyed our marriage therefore she never saw me as an option she couldn't come clean and tried to make a go of it with John1

My H was convinced that once he confessed to his three As, I wouldn't want anything to do with him anymore. I had always said in conversations with friends that I would never tolerate cheating and would leave, and he took me at my word.

The thing is, though, once he did confess, that's not how I felt at all. It took him a LONG time to trust that I really wanted to R. Since you two were each other's firsts and had saved yourselves for marriage, I'm sure she felt tainted and like you'd never want her back once you knew.

And no, you're not crazy to want to try to repair your relationship. If she's working hard to be transparent and work on herself, then I say see where it leads if that's what you want to do.

Also, I'm sick to death of people saying that 2+ affairs means they're a serial cheater and will never change. Generalizations suck. If the WS sees the pain that they've caused the BS at DDay and then cheats again, yes, cut 'em loose. But if the affairs happened before discovery, especially when they think that they've already doomed their marriage, it doesn't mean that they won't or can't change. There are a LOT of factors to consider, like the WS's personality, their remorse, what kind of cheating they did, how callous they are in general, etc.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 9:48 AM, July 22nd (Thursday)]

The one thing you should know by now is cheaters lie a lot.

Sorry for you but understand that your wife is a typical cheater. Nothing special at all. Most like you just can’t believe it.

Being in denial and living on hopium is just a temporary comfort zone.

Upfront they will promise the moon but actions say more than their words. All cheaters lie. You can’t trust her or believe anything she says.

She has put you in limbo but you are the only one that can keep yourself there.

She’s had 2 affairs which does suggest serial cheater. Her excuses are bullshit. Nothing more. She was married to you. She put herself where she is. It was a conscious decision on her part. Shes a grown woman and knew what she was doing.

Thanks all so far - its really difficult to read some of these comments but I know deep down its the truth. Its different when you know (or think you do) the person they concern rather than reading a strangers posts, this is my life!

I have huge concerns she will repeat. The absolutely scary thing is how easily she lied for so long and I didn't have a clue. The levels of deceit are incredible. I'm amazed she could pull it off.

In terms of the why she did it, I keep trying to get her to open up esp about the 1st guy (assuming he was the first as its perfectly understandable now to assume he may not have been her 1st) I get the distinct impression it was 100% his words and he played on the 'lonely housewife' bit 'need to have some fun' etc etc- now interestingly his wife has no clue this has happened - he is in the type of job where this could happen regularly. If I tell her it will cause huge issues obviously blow up their worlds but also to our finances as I am fairly sure my wife would be unlikely to work again (cant go into this here really) - I know I should.....but it would be crushing in any divorce if she couldn't work anymore.

She says I know it all now - there's nothing else to say she carried on with John1 under duress so tried to make a go of it. She slips a few comments out every now and again though which make me think 'doesn't sound like duress to me'

I also think I am definitely her plan B, I'm not feeling loved in the way I used to and I know she's capable of as I've been with her long enough to know the difference.......its like I'm a chore to keep happy.....

I've asked her where her heads at and she keeps saying give it time, but if I'm honest I feel like the last three years have been wasted and I keep feeling If I'm going to restart the sooner the better - but its a MASSIVE step and if I do decide to go then I think I need to be 100% committed to that direction. What a mess.

This is all beyond a mess. She's a chronic liar and cheater. I don't think this woman is able to tell the truth.

You should get R off the table for now. This set of facts that you now know would take anyone time to absorb. There are just too many violations in this story, between her and this J1 character.

When you spoke to J1 he was giving you the third party answer like he wasn't the main mark in this whole episode. He was there telling you: it's over man, go, just go. He knew exactly where she was and what her mindset was. He knew she really didn't care about you in the big picture. You had become the inconvenient H.

She's in survival mode for now until things settle down and then she'll find herself exchanging glances with some man, and then a smile, and before you know it, off she goes again with her new man who "understands her".

This woman is extremely high risk. DROP all this religion pretense and smokescreen. Her religion is lust. This whole thing probably doesn't end well no matter what. She may be way beyond any real possibility for R. No matter what I would never trust this woman with anything ever again.

[This message edited by rugswept at 9:51 AM, July 22nd (Thursday)]

Wow!

If I were you, I would tell her that if she truly wants to try and save the marriage, the first step will be her taking a polygraph, which you have already scheduled. Her immediate reaction will tell you all you need to know as to whether they have been physical or not. And you NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH IN THIS!!!! Find and book a polygraph for her.

Then tell her that He needs to be cut COMPLETELY from both your life as well as her life. He is certainly no friend of yours, and certainly no friend of your marriage. She needs to write him a letter saying that she can never again have any type of communication with him.

Good luck and stay strong.

And no matter what you do, NEVER allow yourself to be disrespected by being her Plan B!!!

Do what you must to always be able to look the man in the mirror in the eye.

Welcome to the club no one wants to be in. Luckily there is mounds of support to get you through this no matter which direction you choose.

What concerns me is that she never really "confessed" on her own. You had to dig and question her each time you had a new DDay. It makes me think there's a lot more out there that she hasn't admitted to, and with the trust being gone I'm not sure how to get it back.

So I'm trying to reply to these posts but struggling if I'm honest with how to get specific parts!

Anyway

This is EXACTLY how she says she felt:

The thing is, though, once he did confess, that's not how I felt at all. It took him a LONG time to trust that I really wanted to R. Since you two were each other's firsts and had saved yourselves for marriage, I'm sure she felt tainted and like you'd never want her back once you knew.

Also just to say she has agreed to have NC with any of the APs of course now john1 is public enemy number 1 and she says she can't stand him - she's desperate I don't speak to him mind you - not sure what to do there if I'm honest my own therapist suggested I do not as how could I trust anything he said anyway.....seemed fair enough.

She has agreed to do counselling - if that's what I want her to do - however I want HER to go to counselling on her own steam.

She has given me all passwords and passcodes for social media/phone etc etc

In terms of the why she did it, I keep trying to get her to open up esp about the 1st guy (assuming he was the first as its perfectly understandable now to assume he may not have been her 1st) I get the distinct impression it was 100% his words and he played on the 'lonely housewife' bit 'need to have some fun' etc etc- now interestingly his wife has no clue this has happened - he is in the type of job where this could happen regularly.

So according to her, all it takes is for a man to pay her a compliment and she will sleep with them? That's why this is a poor answer because she doesn't sleep with every man who has ever complimented her. Hopefully. Her why needs to be more along the lines of how she allowed herself to throw her marriage away for pretty words. She can't blame you, either John, or anyone but herself in it because at the end of the day, SHE did it and no one held a gun to her head and forced her. Outing her isn't much of a threat either because she could have chosen to come clean and start working on the marriage if she really wanted to.

I also think I am definitely her plan B, I'm not feeling loved in the way I used to and I know she's capable of as I've been with her long enough to know the difference.......its like I'm a chore to keep happy.....

What I'm hearing from you is that it's possible that part of her why may be her allowing her side of the marriage to go stale. Maybe she built up resentment. Maybe she just put too much energy into the Johns and not you. But whatever it was contributed to her falling out of love with you and now she's settling instead of getting the marriage back on track. Perhaps that is why it was easy for her to give it up as soon as a man with compliments came along.

IF you believe this is true, I think you should not pursue R with her. R is hard enough with two people who sincerely love each other and want it to work. It's impossible with a WS who feels luke warm about you and like they're settling. Her WORDS may say that she will do anything but her ACTIONS say that she will half ass it until you call it quits or something better comes along.

she's desperate I don't speak to him mind you -

She doesn't want you to speak to him? I wonder what he may be hiding that she doesn't want you to know.

She doesn't want you to speak to him? I wonder what he may be hiding that she doesn't want you to know.

Yep exactly what I have been wondering as well!

I'm going to take a break and do some work! Really appreciate all the comments so far - I've never been in such a difficult position in my lifetime.

There's so much more to this that I have posted thus far - even the long posts don't quite communicate it properly but I've already been given lots to think about.

Thanks

I get the distinct impression it was 100% his words and he played on the 'lonely housewife' bit 'need to have some fun' etc etc

Nope. She wanted to and made that decision. Sorry man but an affair takes two. It wasn’t poor muffin against the big bad wolf.

She says I know it all now - there's nothing else to say she carried on with John1 under duress so tried to make a go of it. She slips a few comments out every now and again though which make me think 'doesn't sound like duress to me'

Sorry but cheaters lie a lot.

You are correct. Duress is an excuse after the fact. She put herself in that position and then made another decision to step out on you again. That’s what? Two big bad wolves that corrupted poor muffin.

[This message edited by Marz at 11:13 AM, July 22nd (Thursday)]

Hi TAG - I am so sorry you have a reason to be here but I am so glad you found us.

Just wow, you need to move on and put this shit in the past so you can start healing. I am so angry for you.

[This message edited by BigMammaJamma at 11:13 AM, July 22nd (Thursday)]