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Sorry man but it’s better to wake up now versus continuing to live in infidelity.

I can tell you as one of the happily reconciled couples here at SI — I have my H zero time to get it. Either he did or I was gone. Immediately.

Dday2 was bad enough with false reconciliation. I was not waiting around to see how things would go. He had a very short window to prove anything to me.

Luckily he was capable enough to figure out what he needed to do. I hope your W gets it — and soon. She’s basically run out of time and with the continued lies she has I don’t see much here. Sorry to say.

we were each other's firsts

All you know for sure is that she was your first... She was dating this POS player before she dated you.

Let me be blunt for a moment. Short of DNA testing, you only know who your own father is by taking your mother's word for it. Think about that. Now, I am not questioning or insulting your mother, please understand, but what exactly makes you think you can believe this woman?

Paternity test your children. Tell her you are going to do it. Then watch her reaction. If she has been faithful before this it will slap her with how seriously she has destroyed the trust and the history of your marriage.

[This message edited by CuriousObserver at 5:17 PM, July 23rd (Friday)]

TreesAreGreen, I’m so sorry you find yourself here. I can relate to your story. My WW and I were each other’s first and only (for a short time anyway), mid 40’s, HS sweethearts, 1 kid, 15.

My WW lied, gaslit me, withheld, and blame shifted me a long time, all the whole ugly crying and professing that “now” I know everything.

Given her ability to deceive you, lie to your face without showing any kind of remorse takes a special kind of person. I would bet she has a lot more she should be telling you. I agree with a polygraph. Even the scare of it will probably have her tell you a little more. Go through with it. Don’t believe the bullshit crying.

It’s good that you’re getting away for a while. She will of course be on your mind, but try to separate from her and try to assess your situation objectively.

For Gods sake don’t do something stupid. Your emotional state worries me.

Self harm will let your sociopath control the narrative. It will be what a weak loser you always were.

Do not give your “wife” the satisfaction.

I am not going to do something stupid, I am trying to find the resolve to move forward and have decided I can survive and possibly thrive without her, I have booked a mini break away as said leaving this morning - do worry what she'll be upto but part of me is now thinking can't get any worse can it?

Why didn't she just divorce me - can't understand it?

I am not going to do something stupid, I am trying to find the resolve to move forward and have decided I can survive and possibly thrive without her, I have booked a mini break away as said leaving this morning - do worry what she'll be upto but part of me is now thinking can't get any worse can it?

Why didn't she just divorce me - can't understand it?

Enjoy your mini-vacation. You owe it to yourself. You've been stressed from all of these. You need some time alone.

All the best!

In with anger, out with indifference towards WW.

Enjoy your time away. It is useless to say don’t think about WW and her actions whilst you are away. You will: but just try to eat healthy and drink water and focus on yourself.

One day at a time.

TAG,

Sometimes, to save a marriage, you have to be willing to blow it up. Your WW destroyed your marriage by having at least 2 (that you know of) other relationships...one an LTR the other a STR. I would suggest that you contact a lawyer and have papers drawn up. Have your wife served, so that she knows and fully understands what she has done to your marriage.

This is all on her and right now she's simply not doing any of the things a truly remorseful WS needs to do to even begin the difficult journey of reconciliation. The only thing she's done right is give you full access to all her electronics. That's not enough for R.

Below is a list of what a remorseful WS (Wayward Spouse) should look like. There is a difference between remorse and regret. There is a lot of useful information about this and other affair-related topics in the Healing Library in the yellow box on the upper left.

If a WS is truly remorseful, they:

• are non defensive

• examine their motives for their affairs, without blaming their spouses

• accept their roles as healers to their wounded partners

• do not resist breaking off all contact with the affair partner

• show genuine contrition and remorse for what they have done

• make amends and apologize to loved ones

• apologize often, especially the first two years

• listen with patience and validate their spouses’ pain

• allow their spouses a lot of room to express their feelings

• respect the betrayed spouse’s timetable for recovering

• seek to assure spouses of their love and commitment to fidelity

• keep no secrets

• do not maintain close ties with those who condoned the affair

• are willing to be extremely accountable for their time and activities

• frequently check in with spouses as to how they are doing

• are aware of and anticipate triggers of the affair

• are willing to get rid of hurtful reminders of the affair

• don’t minimize the damage the affair had on the children

commit themselves to a long-term plan for recovery, honesty, and Internal (Spiritual) growth

I agree with others that a polygraph would be a very good idea. One of the questions I would ask is if she had an abortion, in 2017 or was it truly an STD? Another would be has she had other affairs' than those already admitted to...

TAG,

I found this some time ago on a site that may not be named. But it's very good info and I think it may help you get to a safe place within your head.

Hey, OP. I’m really sorry you are going through this. First, your feelings are completely valid, and normal given the circumstances. You’ve just experienced a major betrayal from someone you love and trusted. This is incredibly difficult, and often leaves us wondering, not only if we can trust this person, again, but if we can trust anyone. After all, if the person we are closest to can betray us then anyone can. It’s scary and it can make our entire world feel completely unstable. It can make us feel crazy. Given all of that, don’t be surprised that you don’t know what you want, how to feel, or where to go from here. Give yourself some time to process.

I can’t tell you if you can learn to trust her, again. There are a lot of variables, and rebuilding trust takes a lot of work from both partners. However, I encourage you to take a few days to process your feelings, and then ask yourself this:

1. Would I want this relationship if the trust could be restored? Put the betrayal aside (I know it’s hard), and look back at the last few months. Was it a good relationship? If so, it might be worth trying to salvage.

2. Does this betrayal ruin everything for me? Let’s pretend we had the magical ability to give you a 100%, flawless guarantee that she would never cheat, again. By some supernatural force, that promise could not be broken. Would that be enough? Or has this betrayal fundamentally changed who she is for you that you can’t imagine wanting to be with her, even after your anger/hurt dies down?

3. Can I imagine the possibility of forgiveness? Can you better understand her motives? (This is not to suggest you are to blame. You are not to blame because someone betrayed you. Full stop. However, if we’re being honest with one another, sometimes the person who was betrayed does have some responsibility in what lead to the betrayal. Not in the betrayal itself, mind you. That was her decision and entirely her responsibility. But what opened the relationship up to a betrayal is sometimes a shared responsibility between both partners, followed by a breakdown in communication and then one partner making the very poor, devastating decision to betray the other.) Can you see her in a way that would let you move on from this? Can you see yourself ever reaching a point where you realize your lack of forgiveness is destroying your life?

4. Does she care about how you feel? Has she consistently gone out of her way to show you that she cares? I’m not saying that caring is enough. Sometimes it’s not. But a partner who doesn’t care won’t be able to work with you to rebuild trust. And I don’t just mean that she shows remorse. She needs to understand how she hurt you. Not just by saying she’s sorry, or by showing you how hurt she is that you are hurt. She needs to show you that she hears you, that she truly understands how deeply this has affected you and your relationship, and that she is working toward helping you heal. When you tell her how you feel, she should not get defensive. She should not make excuses. She should not downplay your feelings or her role in them. She should say, “I hear that you are feeling (blank). What can I do to make you not feel that way?” If she isn’t doing this, explain to her that you need her to. Usually, I prefer the person who messed up to come up with solutions for how to do better, but, sometimes we need to tell them what we need. Especially in the case of major betrayals like this where we feel unsafe and we need the other person to help us feel safe.

5. Can she work on your relationship with you? This can be really hard to figure out right now if you’re feeling a lot of anger. Most of us get defensive when we feel like we are being attacked. I’m not saying you can’t be angry. You’re entitled to your anger. All of it. But anger delays the healing process. And it escalates. She senses your anger and then she gets angry in defense. It’s a dangerous loop that many couples fall into. If you find this happening, try attacking less and listening more. Does she seem willing to work through things with you? If she isn’t, or if you aren’t able to attack less and listen more, you might not be able to go through the trust-rebuilding process.

6. What do I have to lose by giving our relationship a chance? Deciding to stay and work on rebuilding trust doesn’t have to be a lifetime commitment. That would be a mistake. But the worst that happens if you try is that you find out that she won’t change. That sucks. It hurts. But you’ll know that you tried. But if the relationship was good prior to the betrayal and you both are willing to put in the effort to move forward and rebuild trust, it could work out and you’ll be glad you gave it a shot. This is ultimately up to you. Only you know if the risk of another painful betrayal outweighs the prospect of you rebuilding trust and coming out the other side stronger together.

If you can answer these questions and feel like you want to try to rebuild the trust, I would recommend couple’s counseling. There are a lot of mistakes that commonly get made after a major betrayal that do real damage to the rebuilding of trust. It helps to have a professional there to guide you. If you decide it isn’t worth it (because rebuilding trust takes months, sometimes years) and you want to end the relationship, I would recommend seeking some personal counseling for yourself so you can heal from this. Lots of people get cheated on but that doesn’t mean it’s easy nor does it mean you shouldn’t seek help to heal more quickly and completely. Good luck.

Why isn’t she not divorced you?

You are giving her a place to live. The money to keep her life style. The money and time to sleep with who ever she wants.

The money to look good to other people. ( family wife)

How can it get better for her

Most WSes do not want a divorce. They want their spouse and the thrill of AP(s) on the side. It's not because what they have isn't enough. It's because they want more.

Think about it - could you imagine your STBX having to go over a budget with John 1 or deal with John 2's snoring every night? Not to mention she KNOWS that they are unfaithful and would likely cheat on her. They may be fun and exciting as OM in the fantasy affair world but they are known terrible husbands. That's why she wants you for her day-to-day life because you're responsible, you provide, and she knows how to get things done with you. Not to mention ALL of the downsides of divorce - everyone knowing about what she did, the stigma of being divorced, downgrade in lifestyle, having to find a way to cover any chores/skills you brought to the table, etc. Of course she doesn't want a divorce if she can avoid it but that also doesn't mean that she wants to stay faithful while married either.

Most WSes do not want a divorce. They want their spouse and the thrill of AP(s) on the side. It's not because what they have isn't enough. It's because they want more.

This, this, and mostly......this.

You will never get a satisfactory answer. Once you realize and accept how broken, greedy, and selfish a wayward mindset can be, it will, if nothing else, give you a little inner peace. You simply have to take YOU out of the equations. Nothing that she has done.....infidelity wise....is because of you. It never was.

Hi TAG,

Why didn't she just divorce me - can't understand it?

What you are wonder is when you ask this question is if she didn't love and value you, why did she stick around? I have been asking myself the same question over and over again about my deceased WH and this is what I came up with:

*Financial reasons. If he would have divorced me, he would have had to pay spousal and child support. Would have pretty much broke him.

*He didn't want to break up the comforts of home.

*Cake eating. He had two women fighting over him.

*Selfishness. He didn't want any other man to have me.

In my opinion, none of the reasons were about love. He didn't love me because love doesn't look like that.

*Fear. He was afraid to go it alone. And he was afraid to be alone.

*Insecurities. Today I realize how insecure he really was.

*Reputation. He used me and the kid's to paint a life of perfection that didn't exist. He didn't want others to know the truth about who he was, so he used us for his gain.

Ego. I think this ties into everything above. Very fragile ego apparently.

My thoughts are if you are strong enough, dump her ass. She doesn't deserve you.

I wasn't strong enough to leave my WH and he knew it which meant a lot more hell for me.... until he passed away.

Let me tell you, the revelations kept coming in on a daily basis at first. It's almost like a light turned on after his passing.

Just like you are beginning to see with your WW, he cheated on me throughout our whole marriage. Apparently he felt entitled to have some fun on the side while his loving, trusting, dutiful wife happily waited for him at home. I can only laugh about this today. Lol

*Trusting. She knew how trusting you were and she took advantage of this.

I'm going to bet that there are more men out there that she had some kind of relationship with. In this kind of situation, I would have a hard time believing that it was only these two other men.

*Just to let you know, my DWH got on his knees crying, begging me for forgiveness, telling me it was only two separate occasions with one other women. Telling me how much he loved me and I was his true love. He even said these "words" on his death bed while flirting with the nurses.

My advice to you, keep digging. Try to get to the truth as much as you can. Mine lied through his teeth all the way up to his death. He thought he was going to take his dirty little secrets to his grave. But one gift he did give me before his passing was all of his apologies and hinting around about the truth of who he really was. I was able to put it all together after his death.

If I were strong enough in all ways and with the knowledge and strength I have today, I would have separated myself from him and let him be him and me be me. And allow him to stand up on his own two feet and not use me for the comforts of a home life and a shield. He used me and I paid dearly just as you are paying for her lies and deceit. Sorry, I just don't think she can give this lifestyle up just like that. This is ingrained in her... probably something from childhood caused this behavior of hers.

At first I felt like you do as I found out the real truth of who he was... the revelations kept coming and coming and the shock and pain would literally floor me!

It's been over a year since my WH passing and I can tell you that there is hope for healing and finding a new life because I am beginning to live it.

Still have down days but it is to be expected. Still feel sad of who he was and the way he used me and the kid's for his sick gains and lifestyle. But this was on him now. He is the one who chose this lifestyle, just like your WW has done. I was just his pawn. And honestly today I am good with it because I realized it wasn't me. As I have said before, I was his trusting, loving wife who waited at home for him while he had his play dates with these other women, just as you were her loving and trusting husband. Trust especially is the key word here. You trusted her and she used your vulnerability to exploit her.

At this point I feel that it is still too early to think about having another man in my life but my brother said something to me that makes complete sense. Maybe my deceased WH was not my soulmate, never was. My soulmate in life may still be out there. I can believe that. And mayne your WW was never your soulmate either.

Why didn't she just divorce me - can't understand it?

IMHO, you are asking the wrong question.

This question shows that she in in charge. Your WS has the control. Your WS drives the direction where your M ends up.

Sorry to break it to you, but this is the wrong mindset. This is akin to doing the pick-me dance.

The question you should have asked is; "Why don't I just divorce her?"

Get yourself back in control of your life. You take the reins.

Thanks again for all posters on this thread some good suggestions and especially useful posts about her possible reactions.

Thought I would provide a quick update.

Back from a mini break and it gave me sometime just to think about what i want and need moving forward.

I decided to ask the WW to go through everything again as I wasn’t happy with her explanations, in fairness no rolling of eyes etc

Story remained the same - I then questioned the STD thing and said it made no sense - she thought about it a bit and then said it wasn’t so much the STD scare it was the fact she had admitted the affair with J2 to J1 (she also said she was having an EA with J1 at this time) - J1 basically said to her you know TAG will divorce you for this no question your life is over you have no choices here - my marriage is failing we’ve always had a connection, why don’t we get together and make it work.

Honestly don’t know if that is more lies or truth but just sharing here.

I then said would you be prepared to take a poly to confirm this is true as I don’t believe anything you say anymore - she said yes although doesn’t believe they are accurate but I said well i will arrange one - ok then

Also said I want to see your medical records - yes I will request them.

Then later that day I just thought ‘what am i doing here’ even if this is true the situation is so bad I’m not sure I could continue so I told her I just wasn’t feeling this anymore, that my break away had cleared my head and I think the only way forward is I D you.

Actually I was expecting pleading etc but instead got ‘ok, thats fair enough if thats what you need’

Then in the evening we sit and start going through the practicalities - where would daughters live etc

I think at that point she realized I was serious and started to scramble ‘what can i do’ etc ‘I am so ashamed’ ‘I have broken our family’ ‘ I was selfish’ ‘I’ve hurt you so much’ ‘I’ve seen the pain on your face’

I then said this is never going to work and your fkd in the head and need help. She agreed she was……

Anyway - guessing this is where I get flamed - I said to her get help for yourself, show me you want us to survive this - with your actions, I want those records and the poly and then we’ll see - so I am basically giving this more time……

TAG

The tough talk on this forum is because the truth is often tough and painful.

In the end this forum is to support the BS in their recovery. Everyone has to decide what is best in their situation, whether R or D. The intent is not to challenge the final decision. The intent is to cause the BS to look at it from all sides with eyes wide open.

When a BS arrives here they are at an incredible emotional and psychological disadvantage for making good decisions since it's all so new and just surreal in many cases. The posters here can see it objectively (for the most part) and can give the observations from those who have lived it and learned from it. And that usually means a lot of tough stuff.

Do realize this: this is your life now and the pain will diminish but the permanent stain on the M is forever. Your trust and feelings for her will never be the same. Your M will never be what it was.

The BS has to decide what is best for them in their situation. In so many ways they are about to make a decision that will impact them for the rest of their lives. We all wish you the very best.

so I am basically giving this more time

There are dozens upon dozens of threads here on SI (and similar forums) where a BH waffled, foot-dragged, and white knuckled his trauma to remain married, only to come back here later and say he regretted it.

I've read no thread -- zero -- where a BH divorced his WW and regretted it.

R is really hard. It requires a giant commitment by the WW, both feet 100% in. For starters, not every WW has the toughness and the endurance to make it.

For another thing, it takes years to find out if it will work. Those years are irrevocable. You can't get them back.

In your thread, you've not told us anything about your WW that suggests she is a long-distance runner, that she has the commitment and forthright passion for you that would support a successful R.

IMO her reference to "our marriage was over so I ...." is just more mental games to justify doing what she wanted to do. It's the excuse she used in the moment - and does not address 'whys'.

Furthermore, the above excuse helps her avoid taking responsibility for adultery. Typical cheater/wayward thinking that's evidence that she is not YET a good candidate for R.

Stay in control of this.

Inform her it is not inconsistent to forgive and love - but still divorce. Especially if you don't trust them to be a safe partner.

Being decisive, showing her a willingness to D, and showing zero tolerance for her avoiding responsibility/vague answers/impatience is an effective strategy for dealing with wayward behavior/thinking.

Remind her that further details may make it more difficult to R - but if the polygraph shows she lied or withheld information then D is guaranteed.

Therefore, her best chance to prove she deserves a second chance is a full confession today (not next week or next month).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:54 AM, July 27th (Tuesday)]