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Finally grey rock

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WontBeFooledAgai posted 5/14/2021 17:10 PM

DanielJK,

We indeed all have your back. You see though, THIS is why we told you not to talk to your STBXWW. I think people on this thread instinctively knew that you were in danger of caving, and our instincts turned out to be valid. Come to think about it though, is there *anything* that did happen with your WW that the board had gotten wrong in our predictions.

So really, what do you see happening this time? I mean, we all seen this movie before, a bunch of times. It was bad the first time and it don't get any better!

You need to see your WW's ploy for what it is. She is merely keeping you around as backup AND to save face.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:18 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

Hippo16 posted 5/14/2021 21:21 PM

Daniel


I've been tortured for about a year. Lied to, deceived, and manipulated the entire 12 month period.

I did the pick me dance for almost the entire time.

I've been emotionally abused.

I'm a shell of my former self. I'm 40 pounds lighter than I was a year ago.

I went pain shopping this week and found out my STBXWW never stopped communicating with AP the entire time. This includes time spent in marriage counseling.


when are you going to see the light?

guvensiz posted 5/14/2021 23:15 PM

What I was afraid of happened. I guess you wouldn't be surprised that I guessed the reason for your silence for a few days, that's why I asked.
As you can see, everyone here has pretty much the same opinion. Actually, so are you. You know what the right act is, but you fight your feelings.

Let's make some things clearer.
With what expectations do you intend to stay in this marriage?
- Having a wife who is in love with you?
No, she is not in love with you. And I doubt she loves you either.
- Having a wife who respects and values you?
I guess her actions make enough sense.

What is left? You are about to make a new life already, only one step left. Why would you go back?

Why is she offering to try R for the fifth (sixth?) time? What has changed? A huge Nothing.

It only becomes reality that she is losing the person who truly loves, values her most (perhaps even more than herself) in this world. And she knows she will never find someone like that again. Believe me, if she thought AP really loved her, she was already divorced.
But that doesn't change the fact that she doesn't love and value you. As a narcissist she just needs to be loved by you. You shouldn't expect anything more from her, but don't get lost somewhere either; this is enough for her.
I don't remember the thread, but I do remember one of my posts about my mood when women that I was not attracted to but who were attracted to me finally start dating others; there is a strange bitterness, I feel like I have lost something of my own even though I don't feel anything emotional.

Are these ok for you in your M; to love but not to be loved, to respect but not to be respected, to value but not to be valued, to be faithful but probably to be cheated again?

I think you should get a D even if you are going to continue with her (which I don't suggest).
As perfectly suggested above, just tell her that you don't give up D and see her reaction. Will she respect your decision or show again who she is?

imgonnabeok posted 5/15/2021 06:12 AM

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...Albert Einstein

DanielJK posted 5/15/2021 07:40 AM

I'm still here. I do read all of your posts. I started a part time job and on fridays i work basically 7 am til midnight so could not respond to all.

I spoke with my attorney, I agreed... a "motion for conciliation" will be filed.

I regret it already.

I got hovered in...I don't really see it coming...an offer of getting back to my old life is made and I jump at it, it feels good for a split second, then reality sets in...I read the comments here and realize what's missing.

It's all about her. At this point her daughters know she is cheating, I believe now and all along she just did not want to be the bad guy in filing for divorce, now she doesn't want me to be able to say that we divorced because she was cheating... it's because we tried and see...we're really not compatible.

I don't dispute anything you guys are saying here. You're right. I'm the worst kind of rugsweeper there is, I avoid confrontations like the plague and I did it again.

The conciliation at worst (or at best?) just postpones the divorce for 3 months. I have the new house, I can escape at any given moment...getting away physically was my bigger concern.

I want to tell her that I need more this time, like a lot more (see Ellie's list). I want to believe she can do those things...god I want her to do those things, but I can't force her and there's the issue I should be getting...> I can't force her to love me.

When I think about it, there's just no way she can do all of those things...reality sets in again.

I never really thought she was a narc...but the reaction she has every time I withdraw is obvious. I thought it was always one of those things where one spouse leans back, the other leans in. Based on the comments above I think it's more than that...she really is a narc.

I hope you will keep posting, I do value your feedback even if I'm not good at implementing. You are experts at this.

I will keep posting to update.

Marz posted 5/15/2021 08:16 AM

Until you learn to go your own way and control your life this is the push/pull youíll be living.

I think you know the score but your hopium is stronger than your willpower. Until you change yourself nothing changes.

gmc94 posted 5/15/2021 08:33 AM

You can still change your mind - right?

EllieKMAS posted 5/15/2021 09:11 AM

(((Djk)))

Honey I got addicted to the hopium too. I bought all the xwh bullllllshit hook line and sinker. I wanted to believe him SO badly. I understand how you're feeling right now.

It took several SI ninjas virtually shaking me and cartoon-style slapping me repeatedly to get me to put the hopium down and really LOOK at what I had. And when I did that I saw him clearly, but more importantly I saw what I wanted clearly. And the reality of it was that he was incapable of delivering that. And like your ww, he was completely unwilling to give me any effort or even to try. Staying married would only have worked if I put aside all my needs and wants and it would have killed my soul by inches. Fuck that noise. I deserved better and SO. THE. FUCK. DO. YOU.

I see you going down that path. And I'm telling you from my side of it that it isn't worth what it will ultimately cost you emotionally, mentally, spiritually, financially.... It isn't worth it djk. Your sanity is worth the conflict.

asc1226 posted 5/15/2021 09:31 AM

The conciliation at worst (or at best?) just postpones the divorce for 3 months

If youíre committed to giving her another chance, have her read Not Just Friends and Helping Your Spouse Heal. If she has already, have her read them again. I get the feeling they didnít sink in the first time. Then have her write out a timeline, see if it matches what you know. Be generous, give her a week.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 9:31 AM, May 15th (Saturday)]

ChamomileTea posted 5/15/2021 17:20 PM

It's all about her. At this point her daughters know she is cheating, I believe now and all along she just did not want to be the bad guy in filing for divorce, now she doesn't want me to be able to say that we divorced because she was cheating... it's because we tried and see...we're really not compatible.

THIS, right there in the quote box above it the biggest concern. It's not how you feel or whether your WW can actually pull her head out of her ass... it's what you're teaching your daughters. That's the thing which is going to last. That's what's going to get passed down through the generations.

Many years ago, I had this teen-aged girl who used to work for me in a retail shop environment. Every shift, she'd blow through the door like a whirlwind, trailing "I hate my mother!" as she went for the time clock. She never did say what her mother was guilty of, but it was pretty easy to see that the mom was bullying her dad and that the dad was taking it. The day she left for college was pretty much the last they saw of her. I kept in touch for many years, but she moved overseas and doesn't visit but once every five years or so. It wasn't just her mom she lost respect for. It was both of them.

The point is that parents can get really bogged down with the idea that the kids need them to stay together, but that's NOT what the kids typically need. What they need are good role models. So, if you're bound and determined to do this, you're going to need to do it from a position of strength and NOT allow your WW to bully you. You'll need to be thinking about what messaging you're sending up for your kids and whether they're learning to adopt YOUR morality or their mother's. You'll need to open up a dialog with them and KEEP IT OPEN. They will be watching, and you'll be disappointed if you're expecting pity. Teens tend to save that tender emotion for themselves and for their friends, and if they do read us a pitiable they see us as weak and ineffectual.

I never really thought she was a narc...but the reaction she has every time I withdraw is obvious. I thought it was always one of those things where one spouse leans back, the other leans in. Based on the comments above I think it's more than that...she really is a narc.

There's a "push me pull you" element to Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) as well. You might look into that. I don't know what good it would do you though. She'd have to be willing to get into treatment and stay there.

DanielJK posted 5/17/2021 06:31 AM

I keep thinking I have one of those special unicorns...but she keeps turning into a jackass.

I asked her last Monday "when does communication with AP actually stop this time? I need you to contact him and clearly state that it is over and tell him not to contact you."

She said " I will tell him today or tomorrow." Meaning last Monday or Tuesday.

As of yesterday she was still communicating with him. "I just haven't gotten around to calling him yet. I want to call him to tell him."

Divorce is back on.

Who does that?

She actually used the term "recreate our marriage" 10 days ago...then continued to communicate with him the entire time.

ff4152 posted 5/17/2021 07:09 AM

Daniel

IDK if anyone has said this on your thread but it definitely bears repeating:

When someone REPEATEDLY shows you who they are, believe them!

Please stand strong this time. Do not let her hoover you back in with her lies and false promises.

smolderingdark posted 5/17/2021 08:06 AM

The more things change the more they stay the same.

For a narcissist it is all about control over you, the narrative and how others perceive her.

Press for the divorce to complete hard and fast.

How to deal with her going forward?

Assume everything she tells you is a lie.

If it is not a lie, assume only she has something to gain from whatever she is proposing.

Lie to her about anything and everything especially the topic of reconciliation.

If you are confronted by her about any lies you simply do what she has done all along - continue to lie.

"I forgot."
"I don't remember."
"Don't worry I will get it done."

Trying to reason with her, work with her, has gotten you nothing.
Narcissist don't do partnerships. Their way or no way.
They comply when they are forced to.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 8:13 AM, May 17th (Monday)]

guvensiz posted 5/17/2021 08:09 AM

Anyone surprised?

Marz posted 5/17/2021 08:30 AM

Nope.

Drop the hopium pipe and quit keeping yourself in this.

Right now you are your biggest problem.

[This message edited by Marz at 8:31 AM, May 17th (Monday)]

DanielJK posted 5/17/2021 08:43 AM

Another blow out this morning.

I get "I'm sorry it didn't happen on your timeline, not everything happens on your timeline..."

My timeline? My timeline?

It's been 7 days and she couldn't find 5 minutes to call him?

My heart needs to finally accept that I meant so little to her, and I was such a low priority that she could not find 5 minutes to break it off with him.

Back to hurting badly. I know, I do it to myself.

Closing on the new house is next week...I may actually be able to afford a hotel room now to get me to that date. I need to get away from her.

I'm absolutely crushed again. That she would offer to file a motion for conciliation, arrange for a MC...all while maintaining contact with AP. Good God what happened to my wife?

At this point it terrifies me that this is the mother of my children. I hope my daughters don't grow up to be like her.

Anna123 posted 5/17/2021 08:53 AM

, but I can't force her and there's the issue I should be getting...> I can't force her to love me.

Love is a non-issue. You can't force her to replace who she is. A person who abuses you, and will probably abuse other partners in the future. A person incapable of love as you know it. Having her form of 'love', if she suddenly offered it, would continue to be damaging. Is there away to reverse that three month stay?

DanielJK posted 5/17/2021 09:05 AM

Anna

The three month thing would have been decided this week. We have a court date this week...last week the thought was to file a "motion for conciliation" ...now that will not happen...the court appearance this week will just be to provide an update on status, then perhaps the next court date will be the final divorce.

If we did the motion for conciliation, it would just push everything out 3 months. I'm not doing that any more.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 9:06 AM, May 17th (Monday)]

asc1226 posted 5/17/2021 09:24 AM

She actually used the term "recreate our marriage" 10 days ago...then continued to communicate with him the entire time

Clearly she never wanted to recreate the original marriage. She wanted to create more of a cake eating friendly M where she does what she wants with who she wants and you pretend thatís ok especially to your daughters and you stop going on and on about how painful or damaging or inconsiderate or whatever the hell it is you wonít shut up about.

Dan, the woman you married is gone. Youíre not divorcing her. Youíre divorcing the woman whoís holding a bloody knife in one hand and that damn phone in the other.

EllieKMAS posted 5/17/2021 09:34 AM

I get "I'm sorry it didn't happen on your timeline, not everything happens on your timeline..."

My timeline? My timeline?

It's been 7 days and she couldn't find 5 minutes to call him?

My heart needs to finally accept that I meant so little to her, and I was such a low priority that she could not find 5 minutes to break it off with him.

It's astonishing how much stupid shit they say isn't it?

Just had to point out here too djk - if she was serious about YOU, then she would block the ap immediately - in fact would have blocked him months and months ago. She wouldn't need to call him or go see him or have closure or any of the other stupid shit I am sure she has spewed forth and for certain she wouldn't have been sleeping with him for the last year. I know it hurts, but I think you will come to see that she did you a favor showing her colors again after the latest bullshit. You KNOW. You know what's up, you know she has no interest in changing, you know your M is dead, you know the hopium lies.... Believe me, those are really good things to know, even though I know they hurt right this second.

Get D'd man. Trust me, you will not regret it.

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