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we will end up where we were (her unhappy, me not aware of it) and you know the rest.

If she was so unhappy, why is she hanging on to the marriage for dear life?

She didn't cheat because she was unhappy with the marriage etc.

She cheated because she is a cheater.

Mr. Flibble, in my own personal experience things would have been easier for me if I’d pulled the plug right after DDAY. I didn’t and muddled (and am still muddling) through limbo. It’s no place to be. It gets weird and complicated the longer it goes on.

I do think some couples reconcile successfully when a WS gets it, steps up and very quickly stops the bleeding. But when they trickle truth it’s like sowing salt in the plains after destroying Carthage. Nothing grows there after, at least not for many many years.

Something to think about.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:41 AM, April 27th (Tuesday)]

But if we will go the R route, I have no desire to play a marriage police, follow her every move, every text she sends. If she wants to cheat, she will find a way. It's scary how easy it is. I just hope I got better at reading a red flags

That’s the thing about living with a cheater. Sure they may be great now, but what about next year? Or the year after that?

It’s kind of like stealth technology. A low key race between a sneaky aircraft (WS) and ground radar (BS) trying to detect if that aircraft out looking for targets.

Dear MrFlibble,

I’ve followed your post from the beginning and will support you in either direction you chose to take. Remember, the decision you will make is based on you and you alone. Every adult human has either entertain and/or has made some bad decisions in life but the question is, are those individuals chosen a path to redemption. I had the opportunity and privilege to listen and sometimes render a decision on activities of individuals both in the secular and non-secular arena. I was in (M.Div) senior leadership in a megachurch and also have held a gavel in my hand for years. I’ve observed people who desired and fought for a second chance and held true to their word and others who only wanted to milk the system.

I’m happy you decided to continue with the Poly because I believe you should know what you are forgiving if you chose the path to reconciliation. I do believe in second chances only if it is warranted. You have a lot to think about and whatever decision you make, you will be fine.

Best,

Bigheart

Some say she's more adept at hiding. This is true but still this is not something that can be easily hidden.

You don't have to be a marriage police and you don't have to wait for her to cheat on you again to get divorced, feeling lovelessness is enough at any point.

I have read most of your story. My impression is that it will be extremely difficult, perhaps impossible, for this not to eat at you indefinitely.

I loved my XWW. It took me awhile while to realize I was not wired to let this go, ever.

Maybe look inside and try to figure out if you can be happy married to someone who betrayed you.

I was afraid of the unknown, being alone, the impact on my kids. But, divorce has not been bad. Everything is pretty good and PEACEFUL.

Mr. F,

For what it's worth, I love my now ex-wife. But I cannot forgive that she gave $60k to a scammer with whom she had a 6 month ER with. I could forgive the EA, but not her emptying our checking account, savings account and home purchasing account. Your wife went far beyond what my now ex-wife did. They fact that you're still wavering is ... a testimate to your love for her. Choose your desitination and move to that.

MrFlibble,

Hope you are feeling a bit better now. Hopefully your IC session went well.

You said in an earlier post

W came back last night with kids, we stayed up until 2 am talking. I lost some of my composure last night and it became very emotional and I guess you can guess the rest.

Can you tell us what you and your wife talked about? Did the evening end in an angry confrontation or hysterical bonding or something in between? I was curious where things stood with your wife.

Some previous posters have recommended you take your time to consider R or D and I wholeheartedly agree. You are understandably conflicted and need some time before you make life altering decisions. If you can, at least, delay the divorce proceedings it may provide the time you need to seek clarity.

From everything I’ve read so far, it appears your wife has three main problems. First, she seeks external validation outside her marriage. This may derive from poor self esteem. Second, she has poor boundaries with men with respect to her marriage. Third, she has not been open and transparent with you (lies, trickle truth). The questions you face are whether you can a) trust her going forward and b) forgive her for her actions that have harmed you, your family, and your marriage. If you cannot do both, it is likely that D is the solution.

With respect to trust going forward, what has your wife’s IC come up with? That is, have they identified any of the root causes of her poor choices? If so, have they developed any coping mechanisms yet to help your wife to prevent/avoid the choices she has made in the past. Unless you understand what has driven her in the past and what will prevent a repeat in the future, I don’t think trust is possible.

Something you said in an earlier post caught my attention

I have read the saying "When people show you who they are, believe them", but I have trouble using this saying when it comes to my W. She has been my life partner, my best friend and the person I trusted the most in this world for 13 years. That's a long time. She was always there for me, gave me a helping hand and no matter how cheesy it sounds, she made a better person, showed me a way and if I told you my success (professional and person) is just my own doing I would be lying. I have read a few stories here and there, and quite often there is a history of abuse, lies and whatnot. We simply do not have that in our marriage history. We have always been great, we are (or were) THAT couple. That's why this hurts like bitch.

Your experience with your wife appears to be, on the whole, very positive over the course of your marriage. That in no way excuses what she has done, but I think you should consider it as you weigh the pros and cons of both R and D.

You’ve handled this mess in a very admirable way. I wish the best for you and your family.

Just for the record -

But if we will go the R route, I have no desire to play a marriage police, follow her every move, every text she sends. If she wants to cheat, she will find a way. It's scary how easy it is.

- I don't see that it's this way. I've been in R for 10 years, but I could never have done it without the option of satisfying myself whenever the need arises that he's not slipping.

The only thing I've discovered is inappropriate banter and borderline flirting. I thought that was pretty bad, but my point is that every once in a while, I just need the option to check everything occasionally. I do it, and that itself precludes suspicion.

I don't think it's practical to think you can go back to the way it was. This is a whole new world, and you have to agree on the rules.

We took the petition back this morning.

It does not mean we are on our way toward R or anything, but I simply didn't feel the way I thought I should about the divorce. I had a session with my IC because I felt the need to have my thoughts validated and to make sure it comes from me and not from someone outside, especially my wife. I know some you will take it as her working me to get what she wants (and it might be partly true), but I think this is about what I want and not what my W wants me to want. I also reached out to my friends and family who are a great help in all this. Lots of phone calls. Also the girl reached out to me yesterday, we texted a bit about how we are both doing and it's nice talking to her, but I made it clear again I am not looking for anything and she's ok with that

I went for a walk yesterday to clear my head, I followed a riverbank and ended up 7 miles from home. So I had a beer and walked the 7 miles back. I came back to my W freaking out because my phone died and she had no idea where I was. Took a lot to calm her down

I told her my decision but I made it clear that it doesn't mean we won't get divorced in the end. I honestly hate myself a little, it's been 7 months since Dday and I am not an inch closer to a resolution. And I know I should, because how long can we prolong this mess? Maybe it's my fault, since I am so indecisive, but her TT definitely didn't help, it's like Dday all over again and every time something new came up it set the clock back. So in a way this is all new, just few days old. Does that make sense? I hope it does or I am losing my mind.

So to make it short, still in some kind of limbo. It's hell, but I think I can take it for a little while longer, at least until I am 100% sure of what I want. I hope the moments comes soon.

I agreed I will join her IC session next week to see her progress on this front and we will take it from there. She gave me a list of some sort, a road map if you will, for our (my) healing. She's saying all the right things now and I see now how stupid I was a few months ago for believing her apologies and tears. It was all just a noise, nothing more. Maybe the true remorse is starting to come out now, who knows. I definitely don't, I am not as good when it comes to reading my W as I originaly thought. And it sucks.

MrFlibble, the clock does start over with each new reveal through TT. It's really the calendar gets flipped back. I or someone else should have made note of that back in JFO. If I didn't I apologize. It's something that all newly betrayed should know. Your feelings about this are dead on.

You're making a major life decision. It's very difficult. I evaluated and made decisions and recommendations and wrote lengthy reports regarding those in my professional life. Gather the facts, evaluate, decide. I found it a whole lot tougher, not even close, with the decision I had to make regarding my marriage and all of the fallout on either side. I waffled and fretted and tossed and turned.

It's like not being able to see the forest for the trees. It's why lawyers shouldn't represent themselves. Too emotionally caught up. But, only you can make this decision.

If you consider your timeline and with the new reveal about a previous EA you are right back at the beginning again. Do what you have to do to make the decision that's right for you. It's choosing the best of two bad choices. Which one gives you the best opportunity for living, thriving, peace and joy.

Wishing you clarity of thought and strength of mind.

Peace be with you Mr. Fibble no matter where your journey leads.
If there is time with her IC, I'd want to poke at why she was so upset. It's not as important as her brokenness but there's something to work on there.
All days roll you back to the beginning. You are weeks from your latest DDay, so it's not surprising that you're unsettled as much as you were up front. The joy of TT isn't it.
Back to the freak out, it seems your WW is still holding things in, at least her fears of losing you. She has more work to do with having honest and open conversations with you. It seems she gets their in spurts but she still holds back. Not too surprising as you are still on the beginning of the road to R if that's where you end up going.

it's been 7 months since Dday and I am not an inch closer to a resolution. And I know I should, because how long can we prolong this mess?

I think your problem is that you reacted without knowing where you were and what you wanted.

Presumably, that's what you're focusing on now: what do you want? What is attainable? What are you willing to do to heal? Answering those questions and others like them will guide you to act in your best interests.

It's not for nothing that SI's rule of thumb for recovery - for recovery, not for reconciliation - is 2-5 years. This stuff is difficult, and it's best to go for the best solution, not the quickest.

I realize I am almost entirely alone in this position on SI, maybe because I have personal experience with it that almost no other BS does, or maybe because I am myopic in my view as an outlier and as such am not able to see all that I should see.

This is my opinion formed from my own experience. D is NOT inherently or of necessity the end of a relationship or the end of a future or a thing that makes R impossible. D does not force any limitations on the desire and efforts to R. It is only the end of a legal entanglement and a final exclamation point to what was already dead.....destroyed by the broken vows, betrayals, disloyalty, manipulations, etc. But the D process that ends in a dead M has nothing to do with what you may want with your WS or how you move forward with a possible new M. M's are cheap and easy to legalize, at least as it was where I lived at the time and appears to be somewhat as it is where you reside now. If there were a law that said you cannot marry a person you divorce, that would be one thing. But I have not read or heard of a place that forbids remmarying a former spouse at any time one may want as soon as they may want after D. For some, the struggle and pain of having to try and fix what they see as a dead M is part of the trauma. In places where the dead M can be officially ended fairly easily, can be a relief for some BS's. Nothing says you cannot forge a new M and make that new relationship legal at any time that the couple may feel ready for that new M.

That being said, Mr Fibble, I respect and support your choice to back off of the D. It is reasonable and understandable. You have to forge your own path on your own timeline. So my supportive thoughts go out to you on the choices you make towards whatever the end goal becomes. If stepping back from the D process seems best at this point, you are the one best to know that.

You are in a very difficult circumstance and it is still quite early.

Dear Mr. Fibble,

I think what you did is a sound decision - to give yourself some more time to make this call. So long as you’re safe and your children are safe, I think it’s a decent place to be to decide what you want your life to look like.

If I can offer something to ponder in this process... find you. The real you. Use this time of decision to get a grip on who you are as an individual.

This event in our lives tends to define us. It’s this cloud that hangs over us, no matter how this plays out. A thing that can bring the sunshine is finding you. You are more than your marriage. You are more than your job. You are more than those things.

Focus on being a great dad. Focus on what makes you happy... golf? Classic cars? Gaming? Find something for you. Give yourself a reward.

I don’t know what decision you will ultimately make. I do know it’ll hurt for a long time. Personally, if your WW is remorseful, if you and your kids are safe, then it’s not a bad place to ride out discovery of what you want out of life. You might like your ww again and you might want a divorce. Time will tell. What you do need is some time to find you and some time to do some stuff you really want to do.

...her TT definitely didn't help, it's like Dday all over again and every time something new came up it set the clock back. So in a way this is all new, just few days old. Does that make sense?

Absolutely

...her TT definitely didn't help, it's like Dday all over again and every time something new came up it set the clock back. So in a way this is all new, just few days old. Does that make sense?

Absolutely

Maybe the true remorse is starting to come out now, who knows.

I don’t think you mean this the way it sounds: The “true remorse’ wasn’t buried and now it’s gradually being allowed expression. The point usually is that it was fake or at best superficial remorse. True remorse’ has to be learned by feeling fully the pain one inflicted on the other,

Also the girl reached out to me yesterday, we texted a bit about how we are both doing and it's nice talking to her, but I made it clear again I am not looking for anything and she's ok with that

Did you not already tell her that at the bar? Seriously, she texts again, ignore her. This can very well lead to a slippery slope of an EA. You have enough to deal with at this time.

There is no timetable for R or D. You take the time you need to figure out what you want to do.

Did you not already tell her that at the bar? Seriously, she texts again, ignore her. This can very well lead to a slippery slope of an EA. You have enough to deal with at this time.

Words not actions. I actually see this as a red flag on her part. You've already told her you are not in a place for a relationship. Her contacting you is not respecting that boundary. Just because you've told her doesn't mean she's listening and respecting what you said. With your recent history, I'd be leery of getting involved with someone willing to pursue you, even if stealthily, while you are not single.