Newest Member: Armyman9196

Divorce/Separation :
I am divorced!

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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 8:06 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

collecting that money might be difficult...

I'm not sure what would be allowed, but can you request that the judge stipulate a date that it would have to be paid, after which time, if not paid, her wages could be garnished? Not knowing how much you've paid, and your seeming lack of interest in chasing this, it may not be worth your while. All indications you have given is that if you can stop the bleeding you are not going to worry about blood already spilled. I may be wrong in my interpretation.

Sorry that the mediation didn't work out for you. I know you were hoping to end things and move on. Hopefully the judge can review that information quickly and rule on the appeal without wasting more time. I wish you luck.

posts: 1538   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8669434
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 8:18 PM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021

I'm not sure what would be allowed, but can you request that the judge stipulate a date that it would have to be paid, after which time, if not paid, her wages could be garnished?

Great minds think alike. I am meaning to ask my attorney about this (eventually). I didn't think to ask her during mediation today (which I used as an opportunity to query her legal opinions).

Not knowing how much you've paid, and your seeming lack of interest in chasing this, it may not be worth your while.

It's razor-thin financially when I consider cost (legal fees) vs. benefit (reduced monthly payment). Along these lines, it's actually really pertinent that she would have to pay me back for alimony that I have already paid... that changes the math quite a bit, actually.

The primary reason why I am doing this is because my attorney REALLY wants me to do it, my GF REALLY wants me to do it, and I really would like to kick xWW's ass in court. That said, I am being much more hands off on this (and I told my attorney this too) -- I can't tell you how many times I said "I'm just going to follow my attorney's advice" today.

All indications you have given is that if you can stop the bleeding you are not going to worry about blood already spilled. I may be wrong in my interpretation.

This is somewhat right. The most important thing for me in this divorce was that I get at least 50% physical custody of my kids. I got 30% and I am not going to get more unless I can build a case that xWW is endangering the children, which is unlikely (although the alcohol incident on Thanksgiving is getting there...).

Sorry that the mediation didn't work out for you. I know you were hoping to end things and move on.

More correctly, I was hoping for the best, but I was prepared for the worst. I didn't expect anything to come out of mediation other than stupid drama, which is what happened. She's lied and cheated throughout this divorce... why would she stop now?

Hopefully the judge can review that information quickly and rule on the appeal without wasting more time. I wish you luck.

Thank you!

My concern is that the appeal process is weird. We take our appeal case to the appeal court, who will make a ruling. After that, we go back to the original judge who then modifies his decision based on the appellate court's ruling.

For this reason, there is a risk that the judge could say "oh, her income exceeds her budget? well, let me increase her budget so that her income no longer exceeds her budget!" My attorney said that really doesn't happen.

For that reason, though, is also why it's pertinent that she has bought a house with her boyfriend. That's a second reason for alimony to be stopped. As my attorney claims, we get two swings at the pitch (her baseball analogies aren't the greatest, but she's otherwise a really good attorney).

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8669437
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gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 2:33 AM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

are you able to offset her repayment of alimony by withholding child support? something to ask your atty (assuming you are paying CS - I can't remember)

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3441   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8669532
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 2:56 AM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

She is just evil.

She deserves to have horrible awful things happen to her.

You got this.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 18985   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8669535
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WhoTheBleep ( member #49504) posted at 3:18 AM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

What a moron to lie about the house. That's like the easiest thing to figure out. A simple Google search...

I'm sorry you are heading to court again. But you sound confident and driven. I truly hope it goes your way.

I believe we have two lives: the one we learn with, and the one we live with after that. --The Natural

posts: 4372   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8669541
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OrdinaryDude ( member #55676) posted at 6:17 AM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

Barcher, you winning this appeal would make my decade!

Me - BH 50+
Her - WW 50+
Married 30+ years, 2 adult kids
(1989) PA Rug-Swept
(2002) EA Rug-Swept
(2016) EA *Getting Out Of Infidelity*

**Working at Reconciling**

posts: 3384   ·   registered: Oct. 19th, 2016   ·   location: The Big Easy
id 8669561
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 6:01 PM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

are you able to offset her repayment of alimony by withholding child support? something to ask your atty (assuming you are paying CS - I can't remember)

I am paying a lot of child support, which is kind of "funny" because xWW regularly tells the children (and me) that I don't pay for "anything". Excuse me? I fucking pay rent for our children to live in your house.

My bitching aside...

I don't know the answer to your question. That would make it simpler.

xWW actually tried to "punish" me and she has garnished my wages. Oh gee, you signed me up for a service that makes the support payments for me? Oh gee and it costs me $1 per month? Yeah, she put me in my place there!

The reason that I mention the garnishing is because that accounts for both alimony and child support, so I would think that they could deduct her back payments from that. But, I officially don't know.

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8669866
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 6:09 PM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

I'm sorry you are heading to court again. But you sound confident and driven. I truly hope it goes your way.

The appeal process is pretty low impact on me. I don't even go to court. I just send my attorney a check for her work.

I'm not that driven, tbh. My attorney is far more driven by this than me. I now think hates xWW... and I *know* that she hates opposing counsel.

At the beginning, I seriously debated whether to pursue the appeal or not. I was burned out from the legal process of the original divorce (it took 2.5 years!). Even if I win the appeal, the financial benefit to me is marginal (although it gets a lot better if xWW has to pay me back for alimony that I have already paid!).

These days, I am not so burned out on the legal stuff and this appeal is much less work/stress for me anyway. I'm also more vindictive now than I was before. If I spend $10K to lose an appeal (and xWW spends similar to defend against my appeal), then I'll be okay with that.

All that said, my appeal (as it appears to me) is rock solid. At mediation yesterday, there was not even an attempt by opposing counsel to refute the merits of our case. Instead, they tried to scare me with other factors that were either irrelevant (I'm already living with my GF; they threatened to bring that up in court; so what, that was already discussed at trial) or tangentially related (what if I get a big raise?).

Barcher, you winning this appeal would make my decade!

I'm in it for your benefit!!

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8669874
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 6:18 PM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

Another weird update...

I mentioned the baseball tickets before...

The baseball game was last night. xWW was in attendance with her BF. I basically grey rock'd the whole night (it's real, not an act).

Early in the game, xWW and her BF went to a completely different area of the ballpark. At one point, I noticed where she was... and she seemed to be starting at me (it was kinda creepy, tbh).

When my GF arrived, she asked if xWW was around and I told GF where I had seen xWW previously. xWW was still there, being VERY affectionate with BF. GF thinks that it was a show to make us feel weird. Meh. (side bar: She had affairs while we were married... does she think being affectionate with her current would upset me? I know, she's projecting!)

Towards the end of the game, xWW made a point to come over to where we were sitting and say goodbye to our kids. It was really weird that she did that. In the process, I got a decent look at her... her face was very puffy, even compared to how she looked at trial in October. I mention this because my GF has opined that xWW might be pregnant. That would, of course, make my case of co-habitation (if the appeal fails) even stronger. At that point, she would have produced a child and purchased a house with BF... that's pretty strong evidence that they would be getting married if not for alimony (which is the loose standard applied in my state).

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8669883
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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 6:19 PM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

I too hope that you have a favorable judgement and your XWW loses her shit. I think all BS's enjoy seeing WW's suffer justice.

(what if I get a big raise?).

That knife cuts both ways. Alimony won't be affected by any raise you receive but CS can be (in most states). However, that also applies to your XWW. If she receives a big raise, you can also petition for a CS adjustment.

As an outsider, it makes me wonder how the opposing counsel passed the bar. She seems to have very little understanding of the law. I'm sure she knows far more than me, but that isn't my job. Maybe she envisions herself as a "Saul Goodman" type, trying to manipulate the system for her client. Who knows.

posts: 1538   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8669884
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 6:42 PM on Friday, June 25th, 2021

That knife cuts both ways. Alimony won't be affected by any raise you receive but CS can be (in most states). However, that also applies to your XWW. If she receives a big raise, you can also petition for a CS adjustment.

I'll expand on this because it ended up being somewhat important in ways that you wouldn't expect.

First, my salary is not fully guaranteed. I only receive income for 75% of a full time appointment but I can earn a full 100% if I do extra work. This extra work involves me applying for competitive projects and hoping that I can "win" these awards.

This was an issue at trial and the judge basically decided that for purposes of alimony and child support... to count my 100% salary. His logic was that I had achieved this 100% income for many years recently (since 2012?), although 2020 was an exception. I am not likely to get a full 100% salary in 2022 (or beyond) but I should in 2021.

Legally speaking, I think that my lawyer was planning to appeal this because effectively I am being expected to work overtime, which is not what the law says (the law is something like a 40-hour work week is expected except in fields where the standard is less than that. Our witness at trial said that there were about 500 employees like me and 100% of us had this weird 75% appointment -- meaning, it's clearly the standard appointment for my profession). As my lawyer put it, when teachers get divorced... their summer jobs (if they have one) are not included in the divorce/income calculation.

There is also a legitimate mental health issue that the judge ignore. I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder and it's undeniable that working too much leads to mental health struggles. This is why I am seriously considering cutting back on this overtime, whether the judge counts it or not.

Second, there is virtually no chance of me getting a large raise. There are no more promotions available to me with my current employer, so the only way that I would get a "big raise" would be to get an offer from another company and then get a retention offer from my current employer. There are no other employers in my area that would use my skills, so all competing offers would be from out-of-state and thus very high risk (plus, I like where I live... I don't want to move, so there's that).

Finally, the good news about all of this... is that I have spoken to GF about intentionally dialing back my work effort, which would mean that I would intentionally NOT get 100% salary (i.e., less work, less money, better life). So, I am very likely to make less, not more, in the future. xWW and her attorney certainly seem to think that I can get this extra money whenever I want, which is not the case. It's a lot of work to get the money and a lot of extra work and responsibility to do the extra work that comes with the extra money.

As an outsider, it makes me wonder how the opposing counsel passed the bar. She seems to have very little understanding of the law. I'm sure she knows far more than me, but that isn't my job. Maybe she envisions herself as a "Saul Goodman" type, trying to manipulate the system for her client. Who knows.

I don't think opposing counsel is stupid, although I might be wrong on that. Opposing counsel is definitely evil. Remember, lawyers are ethically obligated to represent the best interests of their clients under the law. The problem that opposing counsel faces is that I am not the crazy asshole that she is trying to make me out to be.

Their basic problem is that they are trying to get more than half of the pie whereas I am asking for half of the pie. This puts them in a precarious situation, legally, because there is no legal basis for their position, so they basically just turn up the VOLUME on their arguments, not the logic. In contrast, my attorney polite and quietly pointed out to the judge where our positions were supported by the law. This is why we have won on 90% of the issues in front of the judge and we are appealing one of the two issues where the judge ruled against us (because he made an obvious and major error).

Anyway, opposing counsel is trying to get as much for her client as possible. Does she cross ethical boundaries at times? I say yes. Does she take advantage of her client's stupidity to increase the number of hours that she can bill? Again, I say yes. But those are subjective opinions, not objective facts.

But, yeah, I will be filing an ethical complaint against opposing counsel when this is over. My attorney has asked me to wait until after the appeal is finished to do that, however.

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8669906
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 4:58 PM on Friday, September 24th, 2021

*Bump requested by Tigersrule77*

posts: 10000   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8690049
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WhoTheBleep ( member #49504) posted at 7:15 PM on Friday, September 24th, 2021

Wow, Barcher, I must have been in one of my trial prep modes and missed your last post here. So many parallels with our divorces, right down to the ethics of opposing council, and the quiet solid ethics of your own. It's comforting to know you are prevailing in most of your skirmishes, and appealing the ones that should be appealed.

I'm going to continue to follow your story. Thank you for all of your advice and info.

I believe we have two lives: the one we learn with, and the one we live with after that. --The Natural

posts: 4372   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8690080
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little turtle ( member #15584) posted at 6:51 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

I check for updates occasionally. I didn't realize it's been 3 months already... surely there is something new! smile

Failure is success if we learn from it.

posts: 5457   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2007   ·   location: michigan
id 8690326
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 2:13 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

I'm going to continue to follow your story. Thank you for all of your advice and info.

I am definitely following yours WTB! While there are parallels between our divorces... yours is even worse. I hope and pray that you kick his ass up and down the court room.

I didn't realize it's been 3 months already... surely there is something new!

Sorry to disappoint you, but nothing has happened of importance... and very little has happened at all. smile

To give you an idea, I think that I have been billed for 2.1 hours of legal time in the last three months. The 0.1 hours was for my attorney to call the court to obtain the trial transcripts... and then there were two hours of time for one of her associates for work that don't really have a clue about.

Regarding the latter point, my attorney doesn't have any experience being a lawyer for appeals so her associate is doing all of the legal paperwork/filings but my attorney is remaining on the case as "lead counsel". She's doing this to save me money because she knows the details of the case and so she's far better prepared for oral arguments than any other attorney. I'm VERY happy with this arrangement because I agree that my attorney knows this case cold, as she recalls a lot of details that even I have forgotten.

The only pertinent legal detail involves the fact that xWW recently bought a Honda Pilot and this is pertinent only if I lose the appeal. In my State, alimony can be revoked if a person starts living with a romantic partner and they begin living as if they are married. xWW's boyfriend has three kids of his own, so according to my kids... xWW bought the Honda Pilot because it would fit xWW, her boyfriend, his three kids, and my three kids at the same time. That is, this new vehicle purchase is consistent with the conjecture that xWW and her boyfriend are living as if they are married. It's also pertinent because xWW has not gone back to work full time, so she's somehow able to buy a third vehicle and purchase a very large house all while only working a 75% appointment (meaning, she can clearly afford her lifestyle without the alimony that I am paying her).

As far as my life, it's settling down, more or less. The long-term strategy of being a grey rock is paying off. I don't talk to xWW about anything other than the absolute minimum and she is doing similar. We have to reconcile medical costs every so often and she amazingly manages to make "mistakes" about every-other-month, with 100% of these "mistakes" benefitting her financially (which is why I am using quotes... she's intentionally trying to cheat me, obviously). She throws temper-tantrums every time that I identify one of her mistakes and she threatens all sorts of legal action... but it's always an empty threat because well... she's wrong and I am right.

I occasionally catch whiffs of parental alienation, but it's not much. I had an especially good summer with my son (the youngest) and he and I have a great relationship right now. My daughters don't really seem to want to do much with me, but that's consistent with being teenager girls more than parental alienation. We're getting along well and they don't ever complain about spending time at my place when it's my parenting time (although I feel like an uber driver most of the time).

It's also clear that xWW is actively defaming me, but there is little that I can do about that other than be a good person. My son had an overnight birthday party at a friend's and his mother seemed to act like I was some kind of monster (or, more correctly, she seemed surprised that I was a friendly person). This is a pretty common occurrence whenever I deal with someone who knows xWW but not me.

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8690383
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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 1:07 PM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

I had an especially good summer with my son (the youngest) and he and I have a great relationship right now. My daughters don't really seem to want to do much with me, but that's consistent with being teenager girls more than parental alienation. We're getting along well and they don't ever complain about spending time at my place when it's my parenting time (although I feel like an uber driver most of the time).

I can absolutely relate to how you feel there. One weekend my younger son asked if his friends could come over to hang out. Next thing, they are asking me to take them to the movies, then drop them off at friends house on the way back, then pick them up (so friends can pick up their bikes they left at our place) THEN drive the friends and their backs home. Have to love kids.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the summer with your son. My daughter also normally avoids me, but once in a while she seeks me out and we chat for a while or play a game.

Has the hearing for your appeal been scheduled? I know court schedules are a mess. A coworker just finalized his D a few weeks ago. I hope it all works out for you.

posts: 1538   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8690420
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 3:02 PM on Tuesday, September 28th, 2021

Has the hearing for your appeal been scheduled? I know court schedules are a mess. A coworker just finalized his D a few weeks ago. I hope it all works out for you.

Not as far as I know and my attorney is usually pretty good at keeping me informed of important dates.

I haven't asked, though, because I am really focusing on moving on with my life rather than focusing on xWW and her shenanigans and all of this legal BS.

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8690629
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 5:12 PM on Tuesday, October 5th, 2021

Very very minor updates...

1. I got an email from my attorney last week. Our appeal brief was formally filed with the court.

2. I got an invoice from my attorney yesterday for all of the work on the appeal brief. My jaw is bruised from hitting the floor. I was in debt before; now I am REALLY in debt. And this includes the fact that she gave me a $1000 discount for no apparent reason.

3. My GF went to her high school class reunion and she struck up a conversation with the wife of one of her former classmates. This wife is apparently a magistrate that is somehow involved in appeals (I forget the details). She said that judge's in my county make all sorts of major mistakes in family law because the laws are so complicated and most of the judge's had no experience in family law prior to becoming a judge. This has me feeling better about my appeal because the judge's error was so obvious that I can't believe that he made the error.

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5120   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8691718
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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 4:48 PM on Wednesday, October 6th, 2021

I'm sorry the bill hit you so hard. That sucks. I thought the cost was comparatively small. It's too bad you can't have the judge pay the bill for the appeal since it was their mistake, but I know that isn't how it works.

Even more reason I'm pulling for you in the appeal, aside from the injustice of it.

A co-worker was telling me that his ex challenged his reduction in CS when one of his two kids aged out, and the judged decided that he (co-worker) was using "creative math" and he ended up paying the same for one kid that he was for two.

I'll keep wishing you luck on your appeal. You are due for some good results!

posts: 1538   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8691829
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WhoTheBleep ( member #49504) posted at 10:53 PM on Friday, October 8th, 2021

I got an invoice from my attorney yesterday for all of the work on the appeal brief. My jaw is bruised from hitting the floor.

Yep, I got one of those today. An involuntary gasp and "oh my God!" Was heard coming from my office...😭

It's too bad you can't have the judge pay the bill for the appeal since it was their mistake

I am totally behind this. If only...(my own judge made a decision in violation of the rules of evidence which cost me $11,000 in an instant. WTF. WHY have rules if judges and lawyers can just break them whatever they want? Injustice and unethical behavior drive me batshit crazy like nothing else in this world.)

Hang in there, Barcher. Keep fighting the good fight. Glad the appeal is official. Please keep us posted on the progress.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 10:54 PM, Friday, October 8th]

I believe we have two lives: the one we learn with, and the one we live with after that. --The Natural

posts: 4372   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8692300
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