Newest Member: girlangry89

Just Found Out :
Wife of 20 yrs caught cheating

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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 7:20 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

It helped me to reframe the ILYs and sexual talk as not coming from her heart but rather as just playing a game of lets pretend which requires a very specific dialogue.

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8622609
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 7:21 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

The VAR information is solid gold and very useful in determining what’s really going on inside your wife’s head.

IMO, your wife’s response to her best friend was positive (or at least could be much worse) because your wife didn’t expressly agree with her.

It’s too soon but ideally someday her response will provide evidence that she’s become a safe partner by expressing:

1 - shame & disgust for her behavior (it’s not who she is or wants to be),

2- remorse for hurting you (and she’s lucky to have you), and

3 - accept total responsibility as well as all consequences (including being exposed to her parents and their disapproval).

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8622610
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 7:24 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

The best friend is not only a toxic bad influence but a serial cheater (i.e., beyond redemption).

The best friends statement that you were turning the parents against her is evidence that the best friend doesn’t see infidelity as inherently wrong/inappropriate – but rather something that could be justified if only your wife got there first.

All the cheaters that your wife is friends with (including your wife and her best friend) share the following personality characteristics (at least with respect to marriage):

1 - selfishness,

2- entitled to ‘more’ than marriage offers,

3 - ability to lie to your face, and

4 - have no empathy for the humiliation & suffering her behavior will cause you.

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8622614
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Dignitas ( Member #75678) posted at 7:27 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

It helped me to reframe the ILYs and sexual talk as not coming from her heart but rather as just playing a game of lets pretend which requires a very specific dialogue.

That’s a rationalization, not reframing. It also truly does not fit here AT ALL. His WW wasn’t just pining over and expressing things to the OM, she’s still seems to be pining over the OM on VAR with others.

posts: 76   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2020
id 8622617
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 CM70 (original poster Member #76077) posted at 7:29 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Wontbefooled,

She has known this guy for years though her male co-worker. I have been at parties, and get togethers with the AP over the years. The AP is an attention whore and not someone I would be friends with. One of those guys that tries to hard to be funny & puts on an Uncle Sam hat on the 4th with a beard & glasses. Real immature & the total opposite of me. The AP gave my wife a surprise kiss. In front of a few people

my wife thought it was innocent and blew it off, but I guess it sparked her interest and it got the ball rolling.

posts: 96   ·   registered: Dec. 31st, 2020
id 8622618
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Mene ( Member #64377) posted at 7:51 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Your wife is not telling you the whole truth. Far from it.

The phone messages will reveal that.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

posts: 826   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2018   ·   location: Cyberland
id 8622623
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 8:09 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Not sure what a Postnuptial agreement is? Please explain to the the BH newbie what that entails?

A postnup is a contract that both parties sign in case of a divorce down the future. Usually used to protect you financially in case your wayward wife does the same thing again down the future and you divorce her. If you were to divorce now you may lose half your retirement and saving a postnup will help protect that. You may still lose money depending on the lawyer and laws where you live. Check with your lawyer!

Yes she has been in therapy for a few weeks already & has a session today.

Does her counselor specialize in infidelity? Is she actually working on her issues why she needs

1. Ego kibbles

2. Validation from outside the marriage.

3. Why she never told you about problems in the marriage.

4. Why she cheated.

The AP is an attention whore

More than likely he cheated on his wife! Please check with his ex. Would not be surprised if he has other side pieces, nothing would get your wife out of the sand when she finds out she is just the number 3 side chick!

[This message edited by BigNoob at 2:13 PM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8622626
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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 8:20 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

You have followed some of the essential steps to deal with this difficult situation: You EXPOSED the A (crucial), you're using VARs (essential to get the unfiltered truth), you got a timeline (again very important and helps with remorse), those are great steps and I'm glad you followed the advice to ask her about the worst things you would find in the texts (see she thought it was a given you were going to find them all and confessed to stuff you may ultimately not be able to recover from her phone), now keep following the advice and demand she follows through with an STD test and a polygraph.

You asked about a postnuptial agreement or "postnup", you need to talk to an attorney to ask about it, if poorly drafted they may be thrown out and not be enforceable, it's basically an agreement about who gets what in the event of a D, in case she cheats again in the future you will know that she won't take you to the cleaners, I suggest including things like no alimony/spousal support and that she doesn't touch your pension/retirement, but you need to consult a D attorney (or 2) to get the best and most accurate legal advice.

Have you asked her what she told her parents when she was confronted by them ?

posts: 2412   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8622627
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leftbroken ( Member #53741) posted at 8:33 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

I gave my wife a chance to tell me what the worse thing I was going to find before I tried to get in her phone. She said the worst would be the AP describing the physical encounter blow by blow to my wife as well as the deep descriptions of how much they felt for each other.

It has been my experience that the most damaging things that are recovered aren’t necessarily What is written about the AP, But rather the unadulterated version of what is written about the BH. There is often lot of venomous and disrespectful vitriol written about a devoted husband. It is hard to recover from seeing your wife texting to somebody about how much she hates you.

our lives are a novel and we its authors, if you don't like the plot only you can change it.

posts: 117   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2016   ·   location: Calgary, AB
id 8622632
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 CM70 (original poster Member #76077) posted at 9:12 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

LeftBroken, I asked her point blank if there were any conversations about me in their texts & she said no. If I do find she was bashing me we would be at the end of the road. I am not perfect by any means but I have been a true & faithful husband and have always treated her well. But you can see how that turned out for me...

posts: 96   ·   registered: Dec. 31st, 2020
id 8622633
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 9:26 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

I forgot to add on previous post.

Is she actively looking for a different job? Preferably one that is far far away from Aps home.

1. This is how she met AP.

2. Does AP have any other friends at her work? If his bestfriend leaves he could still be invited by his other friends at her job to events.

3. Her coworkers are not good influences on the marriage.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 4:34 PM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8622634
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src9043 ( Member #75367) posted at 10:03 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

The AP sounds like a real jackass. My ex-wife's second affair was with a similar type of jerk. She loves idiots like that. I stupidly went back to my ex-wife after her first affair. If there were forums like this back in my day, no way would I have continued the marriage. Instead, I was stuck with an MC that guilted me into staying because she passed the polygraph test. I wish you the best. I hope you told your wife that her whore friends have to go bye-bye as a condition to reconcile.

[This message edited by src9043 at 4:05 PM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

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id 8622638
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:28 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Has she discussed her therapy sessions?

Is the therapist being sympathetic to her blaming you? If so, she needs a new therapist.

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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:33 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Is my understanding correct, that you heard on the VAR that she was advised by one of her male cheater friends that she had a lot to lose and should stop chasing the OM?

If so, what was her reply?

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8622650
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 CM70 (original poster Member #76077) posted at 11:33 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

So yes I have addressed her disfunctional friends & she has said she knows now that she needs to cut them out of her life. Not sure if that will happen with her best girl friend but she has severely limited her time with her as of late.

She had a Webex today in her car with the therapist which I will have on VAR now. I will grab that when she gets home, this may be the most telling of all the conversations I have captured.

Yes her co-worker (AP's friend) told her to knock it off because I was a great guy and she was going to screw up a good thing. She did not heed his advice.

My WW Mom sent me a text today saying that my WW cried for 2 hours confessing of what she had done & that she is terrified she is going to lose me & how ashamed she is.

posts: 96   ·   registered: Dec. 31st, 2020
id 8622661
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 12:08 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

Good Luck and Stay strong with whatever the VAR reveals today CM!

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8622665
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M1965 ( Member #57009) posted at 12:13 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

I did get into the phone but recovered old texts but not from the AP. I am going to give it another go tonight if I can't get it myself I will take it into a tech.

It is quite possible that your wife has tried to hide or delete texts, but it is significant that other messages from the same period exist, because it means the phone has not been factory re-set.

If you are thinking of taking it to a tech specialist, you could try contacting a private investigator and ask if they can do it, or if they know someone they can recommend. PIs tend to know where stuff can be hidden.

However, the fact that your wife told you about the worst messages, and worries about them, suggests that she is not confident they are gone, or she could have said it was all quite lightweight and innocuous stuff.

The latest VAR conversation was between my WW & her best friend (the one going through her own D, and already has a rebound boyfriend) They talked about me going to her parents & siblings to tell them what was going on. The friend said that's bullshit he is just trying to turn your parents against you. My wife played that off & said I just whish we could have told them together.

As a few others have commented, I think it is positive that your wife did not respond to her friend's "bullshit" statement. As you said in your post, the friend's disastrous relationship history proves she is not cut out to advise anyone, but your wife's lack of enthusiasm for bashing you suggests that she knows who was in the wrong. Heck, you only did what you did because of what she did, so who got her to this point?

The one thing lately is since bringing up D and telling our families what is going on there is no mention of the AP at all.

This may be some reality sinking in. Perhaps your wife is starting to see that her affair has the potential to destroy everything, and that may have taken the edge off the narcissist idiot AP.

Consequences have a way of bursting bubbles, which is why the actions you took were so effective. Affairs flourish in the dark; exposure to sunlight and the wider world shows them up for what they are, and suddenly they are no longer an exciting secret but an openly known embarrassment.

She keep trying to pull me into couples therapy & I have told her down the road (if I am still around) we could do that.

If there is one thing I think you should avoid, it is giving any reassurances about the future.

Busted waywards often go fishing for guarantees and promises, but uncertainty is a great motivator for people to give up their delusions about not only their affair and to stop taking everything they have (including their betrayed spouse) for granted.

I am not saying you should deliberately torment your wife, but stay very very much on the fence, and continue to explore the details of divorce. You need to do that anyway, and your wife needs to learn to appreciate you again. Do not recommit after what she did unless she truly gets her head out of her behind, and making her sweat will encourage her to do that.

She had been using our marriage as a reason she strayed, & I told her I don't want to hear that anymore. I had no idea there were any issues and I believe we had a stronger marriage than most of our friends. She never came to me until the end of November & said we were drifting apart and she was worried. Of course at the time I had no idea she had been having a few months EA that had turned into a PA.

I am glad that you can see how utterly bogus it is for someone who was actively wrecking the relationship with an affair to express concern about 'drifting apart'. She chose to actively 'drift'. Nobody has an affair as a way to strengthen a relationship they are genuinely worried about.

I am not perfect by any means but I have been a true & faithful husband and have always treated her well. But you can see how that turned out for me...

If you do stay together, ensure you make her do her part to make you feel loved and desired, and that the traffic is 50-50 in both directions, not you going out of your way to do it for her with less coming back to you.

A lot of waywards fail to understand that their perception of problems in a relationship is down to their lack of effort, not neglect by the partners they betray. So a relevant question to ask would be, "How much effort do you think you put into this relationship over the last few years before you started actively cheating?" That puts the ball back into her court.

The AP gave my wife a surprise kiss. In front of a few people. My wife thought it was innocent and blew it off, but I guess it sparked her interest and it got the ball rolling.

It is a terrible thing, but you would be amazed how effective unexpected physical contact like that can be.

The wife of a well-known poster on this site complained about a pig of a man that she worked with who was always making salacious comments to women in the office, and who one day grabbed her hand and put it on his crotch, asking her what she thought. Guess what? She had an affair with the guy, and even told her betrayed husband that her AP was a better man than him!

Another guy I knew who used to do outrageous things got his junk out in front of the girlfriend of a pal of his, and she complained and acted offended. Guess what? She married her boyfriend, but had sex with the flasher on her wedding day after her husband passed out drunk (he was basically an alcoholic).

Actions like that are beyond the pale, and yet they pay off for some of the unprincipled turds who perpetrate them. They ought to make the women hate the guys, but in some cases it seems to have the opposite effect. So you may be right about the kiss from the AP starting something.

Hopefully IC will help your wife dig into her real reasons for cheating, and why she thought so much of a guy who sounds like - and is - a total douche.

My WW Mom sent me a text today saying that my WW cried for 2 hours confessing of what she had done & that she is terrified she is going to lose me & how ashamed she is.

And that endorses the actions that you took by exposing the affair and investigating divorce. I am sure your MIL has the best intentions - your WW is her daughter - but do not let this kind of thing push you into making any statements about divorce being off the table. This is a time for you to play hardball, and for your wife to do the work necessary to make her a suitable candidate for reconciliation.

I asked her point blank if there were any conversations about me in their texts & she said no. If I do find she was bashing me we would be at the end of the road.

Your wife may well be telling the truth about that. A narcissistic guy like the AP would want the talk to either be his bullshit to her, or getting her attention 100% focused on him, not you.

Edited to add: Please be careful to keep this place secret from your wife. There have been cases in the past where waywards have spied on their betrayed spouse's posts, and basically 'played' them by using the information to tailor their responses to look sincere. With the VARs and other sources, you are getting authentic indications of where your wife's thinking is, and the last thing you want is for her to tailor what she does because she knows what you are thinking.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:27 PM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

posts: 1177   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8622666
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Newlifeisgreat ( Member #71308) posted at 1:31 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

The first glimpses of reality might be coming over the horizon of her LaLaLand

She is still in self-preservation mode, where she might now be realizing that her comfortable, respectable life and lifestyle are in serious danger of being taken away from her!!!

Good luck and stay strong!

Do what is best FOR YOU!

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 7:32 PM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

Betrayed SpouseShe cheated and I filed immediately upon discovering. She never even suspected that I knew until the moment she was served with reason being AdulteryDivorced 9/18Now VERY happy with new life, 0 regrets

posts: 664   ·   registered: Aug. 17th, 2019
id 8622676
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 1:39 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

I agree with Robert22205https phrasing of “let’s pretend”. I have sometimes suggested BH try to see their wife as two people: the WW is the one you want to get rid of and the W is the one you want to pull out of the WW.

My first professional career was in law enforcement. I remember the first time I had to go to court. It was a DUI case and the defendants attorney asked me extensively about the arrest that had taken place about 9 months previously. The guy was facing an extended suspension, but his attorney got him off with a lesser sentence. Why? Because I didn’t remember verbatim conversations and details like the color of his shirt or the make of the vehicle. While I was on the stand, I was pretty confident he wore a blue shirt and didn’t remember the vehicle type. His shirt was green, and it was a Mazda. Since I didn’t know that then what else didn’t I notice or know from that night?

I wasn’t lying. I wasn’t hiding any truth. I just didn’t think those small items mattered…

I mention this because you will no doubt find holes in her timeline and in her story. Her “truth” will at best be as truthful as she thinks it is. She might have forgotten where she tells OM you can be an asshole. She can even think telling someone that you can be an asshole is not such a big issue.

Once you have the timeline, the texts and the info then evaluate it. See how much of the picture you have. Find your questions and ask for answers. But unless the answers are something like hidden letters or something that she clearly is keeping but hiding from you then allow some leeway for gaps and “misunderstandings”.

If you have access to an attorney, then definitely ask about a postnup. However, they are seldom worth the time and effort, since a capable attorney will argue and convince a judge that it was signed under duress.

PS: Lesson from that first court appearance? Get a copy of the report and just read from the report in the stand.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8622679
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The1stWife ( Member #58832) posted at 1:48 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

Now she’s crying her eyes out afraid she’s going to lose yiu?

I have no sympathy. She should have been afraid of that before she chose to cheat. Honestly some cheaters are just so ridiculous. They swear they don’t love the AP and they loved the betrayed spouse the whole time.

🤦‍♀️ SMH

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10532   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8622680
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