SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well yesterday was a very long day. I spoke to my siblings first all responded in shock & disbelief and are here to support me. I went to her parents and they were shocked & pissed at what she has done especially her Dad. They said they are here to support us & the kids, her Dad ends the conversation with her sorry ass is not moving in with us I guarantee you that.

The wife to say she was blind sided by my demands would not do it justice. She continued to try to deflect & negotiate on the timeline & texts demands. I told her you don't understand it is either this or all conversations are finished you have no control of this. She agrees to comply which she will have tomorrow to discuss (timeline). I have not sat down with the phone yet most likely that will be tomorrow to see what I can get back out of Icloud backup or a phone recovery software. I tell her I will file for the D this week & this puts her over the edge in crying/sobbing and negotiating. I was like robot in these conversations because I was angry and did not want her to see anything else & it freaked her out. Begging me not to leave her, she will do anything etc. Not sure where this will go as the information comes in. Like many have already said they would D based on the info I already have. I guess I will know when I know if I even want to consider R at this point. The dynamic has definitely shifted and I am mentally in a much better place, at least today. Thanks again everyone, I will continue to update as this moves along.

i applaud you, hold her feet to the fire to get the truth that

you need.

i am not encouraging you to divorce your WW or recover

your marriage with your WW.

what i will advise is take your time to decide what you

think will be best for you and your family. i have seen BH's

that had WW's that really did their BH dirty yet their WW

did what had to be done and their recover marriage became

better after D day then before the PA.

Your post and follow through is one of reasons I have followed this site for 15 years. I love to see a man stand up for himself. I wish the best for you, however it turns out.

They all promise the moon upfront.

Her tryin to bargain with you about what you want/need is an issue. She may not be reconciliation material.

Better think long and hard.

The timeline will get you the information you need to decide whether you want to consider R or go for D. She needs to understand that her timeline will be verified with a poly so that you don’t get half truths.

Like another poster said, if you make her read it, it will make her see how despicable her actions were.

You don’t have to make her read it all in one shot.

It’s possible that she had some form of intimacy at the park, then called her good old reliable hubby to the dead battery. Try to be prepared.

Remember that cheaters lie a lot. The OM could be married, or have a GF, or three, and it was all a pretty story to your WW. If your WW says they only kissed twice, it’s most likely a lie.

ETA: ask her how she feels about the OM. If he’s still her “soulmate”, then she can go with him. A spouse should never compete with a third party.

Good luck, post often.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 1:19 AM, January 4th (Monday)]

The wife to say she was blind sided by my demands would not do it justice. She continued to try to deflect & negotiate on the timeline & texts demands. I told her you don't understand it is either this or all conversations are finished you have no control of this.

My two cents. While her reaction isn't great I think it's the norm and understandable. I doubt very much had a clue the destruction her Affair had been to the marriage until then. The New years date probably gave her the impression that things could and would be swept under the rug. She now knows better, and you seem much stronger.

How did she react to you exposing the affair to everyone? If she complains that the affair should have stayed between the two of you -- you can point out that everything that falls under the marriage vows should have been kept between the two of you... and that she shared a lot more with OM.

I think you did really good. Now is the time to watch and see what she does. That it's not all words.

It’s possible that she had some form of intimacy at the park, then called her good old reliable hubby to the dead battery. Try to be prepared.

I suggest you don't dismiss this observation from ShutterHappy.

One time my wife called me when she was more than an hour late getting home that her truck had ran hot and she needed it to cool down to see if it was low on antifreeze. I had been trying to call her but her phone was off. I told her I could have come to help but "she wanted to look after it herself". She was calling me to tell me she would be home in a few minutes. Why phone? Establishing a story is why.

I challenged her but she held her story. She pulled off on a sideroad from the 4 lane highway. Why, when there was a roadside pullout that she was very familiar with just up the road? It smelled like an electrical issue. Then why did you have to let it cool down so you could take the rad cap off? If you thought it was low on coolant, just check the level in the see through overflow tank. That's what it was for.

A couple of young guys stopped to help her so she didn't have to take the rad cap off herself. If she needed coolant what was going to happen?

Held her story and was very upset that I found holes in it.

Years later after DDays - she'd been at his place, he was following her on the 20 miles of highway while she was on her way home, she pulled off on side road, he followed her, they were there an hour, he opened rad cap to provide evidence, she turned on her phone and phoned me she would be home soon.

Well, that was longer than I thought it would be. I just wanted to support what ShutterHappy advised.

Her car battery was dead. Had there been issues with the battery before? Why was it dead? She was sitting at the park for an extended period of time contemplating life. What ran the battery down? After the battery was boosted by you was there any further issues with it?

There will be a ton of crocodile tears to come. Just another form of manipulation. Until she fully let's go and stops trying to control the situation, you've got nothing to work with.

You're doing great.

I just want to say you may not feel like your doing very well atm but honestly you are doing the best you can in your situation,

Stay steadfast on your wants, needs & demands.

Strength to you as you navigate through this shit show.

Good Morning, I am happy to be at work! Being home for five (5) days straight was enough especially with everything going on.

Something new that came out with my conversation with the WW is that they went to third base not just kissing anymore. She acted like she had told me this before, ah no I am pretty sure I would remember that. We plan to go over the timeline tonight, but I am sure more bones will fall out of the closet. She told him she stopped him from closing the deal & was adament about it. Sadly I really didn't even have a reaction to it, because I knew her stories of just kissing didn't add up.

New information concerning the VAR recordings. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread the my WW sister knew about the affair. She did not, when I first found out (Dec 5th) I asked my WW if her sister knew what she was doing. The sister had no idea, I even told my wife to call her sister to have someone to talk to. I did this because her Sister loves me and I thought could be an allie in getting my wife back to reality. From the VAR conversations she has been nothing but supportive of me and said gracious things about me and is trying to steer her sister in the right direction.

The new twist was my WW was having a phone conversation with her male co-worker of twenty (20) years who she met her AP through. I know the co-worker pretty well and he is a fairly stand up guy & told my wife that she needed to stop chasing the AP as she had a good thing at home. The twist is the male co-worker is most likely has an AP of his own. He stated that him & his wife had not had sex since Jan of 2020. The co-worker mentioned in this conversation that "Tammy" tried face timing him and his wife saw it come though on his Ipad on New Years Eve. So my wife had regularly been going out with this group who are either divorced, or married w. side shit going on. So what's the saying? "You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with" Many of her core group of people she had been hanging out with and having conversations with are either divorced, going through a divorce and a couple have their own AP's. What a mess.

[This message edited by CM70 at 10:58 AM, January 4th (Monday)]

You talk very little of the OM.

Mention that your wife says he’s divorced. Have you confirmed that?

Most OM are said to be divorced or divorcing, or if married then have a psychotic suicidal wife. Experience on the other hand tells us that most OM are normal guys that cheat and tend to have a normal wife that didn’t know she was divorcing or crazy…

Have you asked your wife why she just doesn’t leave you for the OM?

What’s holding her back? Give her that freedom. Let her know that divorce will follow a path defined by your state’s laws and if OM is so special then it’s best for all she follows her heart. After all – OM is divorced and therefore single and she can definitely go stay there since their luuuuvvve is sooo deep and meaningful and white unicorns riding into the sunset and farting rainbows….

I’m putting this as a serious consideration. I think infidelity is in nearly all instances fantasy. I actually doubt OM is single, but then THAT fantasy will be blown. If he is then you remove any hold your wife might cling to justifying why she NOT chose OM over you. She no longer gets to think that she needs to sacrifice her love for the White Knight because the Ogre with the black hat demands she remain tied to the household chores. Alas she has to sacrifice her happiness for her kids.

If you were to tell her that the affair made YOU reconsider all the emotions you have for her and you realize that she doesn’t get you. That whatever spark you had for her died on learning she was even capable of infidelity. Tell her that you think your children deserve you don’t rush into any decision, but if she wants the OM she’s free to go be with him.

Maybe not the most appropriate of comparisons: My black lab is the friendliest of dogs. The only time he behaves aggressively is when I have him on a leash and he meets other dogs. Then he will occasionally forget he’s a Labrador and change into some dog-demon. When this happens, I just take him off his leash… Once he realizes I’m not holding him back – protecting him and allowing him to behave all aggressive and macho – his actions and demeanor change instantly. In some ways I’m suggesting the same – Let your wife free and let her know that reconciliation is not a given. Allow her to seek reconciliation.

Bigger, yes he is definitely divorced I know that for sure. My wife's male co-worker of twenty (20) years is a good friend of the AP.

I will probably use your line tonight as she goes over the timeline. If he is so great there is the door & I am not stopping you. As this continues I am having a harder time seeing how this can actually work out? She is very scared of the texts, she said as much on one (1) of the VAR conversations she had with her Sister. I am not sure if I can recover them but now it really makes me want to see what was being said. At this point I am just trying to be slow & methodical to cover my bases.

Hey sorry for what you are going through. I have been there and done that and I can tell you it sucks.

I personally have what I call the Penis test for cheaters. I can understand how people can become close and develop feelings. That can happen and I understand how you can feel an attraction to the opposite sex.

Well that is all murky but how does it go from that to my wife seeing his Penis. Putting it in her hand or mouth Or putting it in your Vagina or ass how does it get to that point? The wife should be aware that if you are that close up to another Penis you are begging for a divorce.

Now you have to wonder does she think he is her soulmate because he has such a big beautiful Penis that I cannot compete with? Why should a husband have to worry about crap like this.

I think you are going to eventually find out he did get his dick inside her. And for me those are mind games that I could never get over. I thought all adults realized if you have gone that far that you should not be forgiven. But some people can forgive although I was not one of those people.

I wish you the best.

Is there something Freudian about your penis fixation SpaceGhost?

IMHO unless the OM jumps naked from behind a bush then it’s too late once the penis comes into play. It’s not infidelity once the tools come out IMHO but rather when the decision is made to get the tools.

CM07 – you create your own line in the sand. And remember: it’s in sand, not etched in marble. You can decide what you think is recoverable from and what not. We have people here on SI that have divorced simply because their spouse held hands with another person. We have people here on SI that have reconciled despite their spouses having multiple affairs. The line is yours to draw, and you can rethink it, draw it again and move it in either direction as you please. There is no right or wrong here – only what YOU think.

I’m going to suggest one thing though:

The biggest wrecker of marriages is not necessarily infidelity. It’s the trickle truth. It’s having a d-day every time the last pain starts healing. Make it very clear to your wife that the absolute worst thing for her to do is to keep secrets. In order to facilitate her being honest then offer an amnesty of sorts: Tell me the complete and utter truth NOW and I will not divorce or file for 30 days. You will spend that time wondering what is best for our future.

Totally disagree with you Bigger. Seeing the Sex parts can not be passed off as an accident.

People can gain an attraction and admiration for someone else. Sex is reserved for a husband and wife. If you cannot see that then we will never agree on this.

No he doesn’t jump from a bush or trip and fall in a Vagina. My Ex could talk and admire and even lust after another and I could get over it. As soon as she peels off her panties that is a whole different matter.

So again if you don’t notice the difference then I can’t help you.

Good point about her circle of friends. She's an adult and 100% responsible for picking her friends.

She's reluctant to share the texts because they are probably evidence that she was receptive to eventually having sex (and/or she criticized you personally or trashed her marriage or shamelessly chased him).

She's in damage control and withholding information because she probably believes that as long as there is no evidence of intercourse that you will not divorce.

She needs to be motivated to share every thing you ask for.

You should make sure she understands that (even if she proves there was no sex) you will also divorce her if she can not prove she's a trustworthy partner.

For example, in addition to lying and sneaking around, withholding or destroying evidence is evidence that she's not trustworthy.

Inform her that while sex or inappropriate texts will certainly make it more difficult for you to R, any further lying or withholding of information discovered by the polygraph - will guarantee divorce.

FINALLY - as proof of her good faith, ask her to write down the topics covered in the texts (prior to recovery of the texts).

For example, did she criticize her marriage or you, did her texts imply she was receptive to sex, did she say she loved him or call him her soulmate, did she say she'd run away with him, .... the list is endless.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:43 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

How often do you have any sort of contact (or even see him driving his car) with the OM?

Your wife needs to understand that this guy is a trigger for you (and pushes you further toward divorce).

Specifically, what does she intend to do about it?

Push her for an answer. There may be no practical solution but it's a necessary part of her understanding the ongoing damage she's put in motion.

If she's scared of the texts they must be really bad, tell her tonight that besides the timeline, she needs to write on a separate document what she thinks are the top 10 things she wrote on those texts before you recover them, you may even show her some ads from Dr Fone and Fonelab to make her believe these softwares will recover the whole thing. Of course tell her the timeline will be subject to a polygraph.

She met AP through her best friend and he knew about it and went on dates together while also cheating himself, he's NOT a friend of the M and for NC FOREVER to be effective she would need to go NC with her friend as well, to make he doesn't deliver messages from/to AP, another consequence of her huge betrayal, she needs to find another job too, that environment is toxic and you don't want to be the subject of side jokes at the next christmas party or gathering. Make sure she knows she needs to let you know immediately if OM tries to contact her in any way shape or form.

When you mentioned 3rd base, was that a BJ or full PIV sex ? make sure she expedites that STD test, also what was her reaction/demeanor to the exposure ?

Wife's male coworker of 20 yrs is not a friend you want your wife to be around. Should you decide to R, I'd make sure you WW understands that this shit group of people are no longer welcome around, nor are they ever to be considered friends.

In fact, i can guarantee that there was encouragement from this coworker to your WW to chase this fantasy. If that is the case, and I believe its very likely since he has done the same on his side, you should proactively get this info from your wife, and send his wife a note about Tammy. He played with your life, and encouraged your wife to cheat, now you return that favor and let his wife know about this ways. This will produce another result, he won't want to be around you or your family going forward.

I personally have what I call the Penis test for cheaters.

I agree.

But being classically educated, I refer the it as either a...

Johnson clause or a Junk addendum.

(Sorry CM70.... just trying to bring some humor)

The texts will be bad. People can disconnect with what they are saying by simply typing it out. She probably betrayed you heavily via text.

I will say that dropping the divorce hammer and letting her try to swim out of her own sh1t pool is the best move.

I did it and I recovered fairly well.

I will say, if you reconcile, take a break from here for a little bit. The advice blends with the pain of others during that transition.

Lastly, GJ on working out! It is the best thing you can do for yourself. Get back into fighting shape as they say. I would advise to also buy yourself some piece of clothing you have been thinking you would only wear if you get into good shape. It helps to have a finish line so you can pat yourself on the back when you wear whatever it is. Mine was being able to stretch the sleeves on a Medium shirt. Bought a tight one to make it a little easy to get at first. Find something like that or 30" waist pants or whatever.

That confidence boosting will help with later. Don't be afraid to cry either. Hiding your emotions or bottling them does nothing. Just simply excuse yourself and walk away. It shows you are strong enough to handle the emotions on your own.