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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 4

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leafields posted 11/8/2020 17:07 PM

Black Raven - No poly, but it doesn't really matter. We're headed for D, and I don't really care.

skeetermooch posted 11/8/2020 17:22 PM

I think they are too mired in shame to be vulnerable to anyone - even strangers on the Internet.

Yes, mine is the same. I can't imagine being so ashamed you can't even bare your soul anonymously. My STBX truly believes his situation is super unique. I've tried to explain to him that his story is actually textbook and that there's a lot of men out there in the exact same boat who would give him support and wisdom but he has no interest in this at all. I am confounded by this - it must just not be that painful to be him, addicted to hookers and porn, or he'd seek support, right?

He uses vulnerability quite a lot to garner female nurturing and interest - he uses it to manipulate I guess - so why not be vulnerable where it counts? I suppose the other stuff isn't eve real vulnerability - I remember at times when he was in vulnerable mode - he could tell me the most awful things with out any sadness or emotion. When I talk about painful things, even old things, it can still cause me to well up but not him - I suppose that was a tell.

Superesse, yes, my STBX just slipped seamlessly into my life because he barely had any of his own except a cool job, but nothing to show for himself, no roots, no family to speak of, no savings or assets. He was new to my city but not from terribly far away. He had amassed nothing in his life. I loved integrating him into my community. Everyone loved him, and like you, it was nice to finally experience "marriage privilege." It was fun as hell sharing the amazing life I've built with someone who seemed to so appreciate it. He loved my chickens, my kids, my home, my gardens - he loved my friends and activities. So, I was of utility. I gave him a ready made life. He was nearly fifty and felt like it was time to grow up and get married and because he's a lazy manipulator of course he chose walking into someone else's life rather than building his own. They love their short cuts.

Now, he's angry that I took away what he felt so entitled to.

BlackRaven posted 11/8/2020 19:54 PM

it must just not be that painful to be him, addicted to hookers and porn, or he'd seek support, right

Skeeter: My experience is what they are hiding is MORE painful than the addiction or the shame they feel from their behavior, and that's why he didn't deal with it. Because dealing with it would have dislodged that terrible, traumatic, horrible, unthinkable thing that happened to him when he was an adolescent that he'd stuffed away. All he knew was the shame, doubt and self loathing that resulted from it. And he wasn't ready to acknowledge that it happened yet. Now that he has, I hope he's able to find some relief.

gmc94

He can't face himself and certainly can't tolerate facing anyone else no matter how "safe" the environment. I can't imagine how awful that must be for him.

Thank you for a refreshing display of empathy. Your Al-anon work is apparent. The father of my child is not a monster. He's done terrible things, and he suffers from tremendous mental illness that he managed to keep hidden for nearly three decades before it all unraveled. Nothing will ever be the same, and I will carry the pain for life, but I still hope he finds some peace.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 8:07 PM, November 8th (Sunday)]

Superesse posted 11/8/2020 20:17 PM

Skeeter, you just listed some of the things about him you now recognize that didn't look like red flags, at the time...print this off and save for future reminders?

I should admit that over the course of my marriage to Mr. Late Bloomer/Sex Addict, economics did not remain the way I just described, and re-reading, it sounded like I was saying he contributed nothing. Initially, that was the case. But within 2 years, I quit my 9 to 5 M-F career position to be able to join him on his endless job trips, which took 1-2 weeks a month for 10 months every year plus "off-season" practice events for the upcoming year!

So he soon became the head of household in my little house. I deeply appreciated being financially taken care of for the first time in my life after my parents' divorce had launched me at age 19 into the world with nothing, after I'd divorced a bum I stayed with 13 years through infidelity, then lost the big house I'd built with him, and then afterwards spent years working overtime. Yeah, staying home, fixing my new husband dinner and expressing my gratitude frequently sure felt like "love" to me, by that time in my life. I later realized he didn't look at it the same way, at all. He would have preferred for me to keep knocking down the salary I earned, and let him do his thing on the road...had I been less gullible, or whatever, I'd have kept working, somewhere! Trouble was that working at the grindstone with him phoning it in every night from exotic locations I'd never see, soon had me feeling like I was just a landing pad between his glorious road trips (with strip clubs, etc., I later learned). That feeling was probably the strongest clue I kept getting that there was a major problem between us.

But eventually, he was getting paid almost what our combined incomes had been when we married. And since that job ended, he built a second career that uses his talents but doesn't require travel (one of my post D-Day 1 boundaries we fought over) whereas, partly due to complex betrayal trauma, my age and being out of the workforce years by D-Day 1, I never found another well-paying job. Worked like a dog on the farm, for "love" but no pay, silly me. He did eventually come into his inheritance and invested a good chunk of it to pay off the house mortgage as well as the farm I'd found "to make him happier" after we married. (Because he always disliked my little house, or was otherwise less than happy there...)

So as you can tell, the dynamics really flipped around over a short time after marriage. I become dependent on him financially, and even after D-Day 1, I resisted letting go of the long-coveted "marriage privilege" I felt I'd achieved, as you so aptly have identified, skeeter. I do not underestimate the powerful pull of those kinds of social benefits, for either the man or the woman!

But you know, some of these observations are just "hindsight being 20-20." Because at the time, we faced those discrepancies together, believing we would grow closer rather than farther apart, and all that storybook jazz...and to a certain extent, in my case, that occurred. So I don't want to make it sound like I've always been the Golden Girl whereas he's always been the deadbeat. My saga points to why we have to learn not to long so much for what other folks seem to have. Going into a relationship, that feeling probably blinds us to how a particlar BF ain't really bringing much else into our life, because we want a solid, safe relationship so badly. We already feel we are economically self-sufficient, so if we can just acquire that missing man, all will be great, right?

[This message edited by Superesse at 10:21 PM, November 8th (Sunday)]

skeetermooch posted 11/9/2020 18:40 PM

GMC & Black Raven,
I appreciate reading the more empathetic sentiments as well. I've also experienced my empathy as unhelpful to maintaining NC and moving on. Anger is healthier for me right now, because I have such a hard time allowing myself to feel anger, even when it's very justified. I go into freeze mode instead, which is a total bitch to extricate from. My STBX has been pretty consistently emotionally and verbally abusive post-dday. Lots of rage and blaming and very little effort to recover or make amends. He simply stomps his foot, bellows that I wasn't perfect either and demands his life back. The abusive anger, gas lighting and blaming gave me a nervous breakdown. Ultimately though, I get to recover and resume a normal life of integrity and health, while he probably won't get there. I suppose when anger is no longer serving me, empathy will be what follows but not to the extent that I'll let him close enough to harm me again.

Superesse,

My husband contributed economically as well, although he never supported me. He also wasted a shit ton of money on his addiction that should have been going into the household. I thought he was saving a good chunk of his spare income, so I was fine with the financial arrangement. I make good money. Plus, I had no intention of co-mingling real estate I'd acquired pre-marriage so I wanted to work until the houses were paid off. I don't know if he'd ever have supported me. He always said that was his goal but whenever I broached planning towards that, he made excuses. Ultimately, he knew supporting me would mean total financial transparency and he'd be unable to fund his hooker habit.

These guys weren't all bad in the end - they did some positive things. They have good qualities. That also makes the decision to stay or go very difficult. For me, he made it clear I had only one option because he was so abusive after getting caught. I think a lot of ladies on here experienced remorse and amends to some degree. I haven't been so lucky.

I wasn't looking to get married when I met him, quite the opposite, maybe if I had been I would've paid closer attention to the flags, but they were inconsequential because I thought we were just having fun, until he swept me right off of my feet before I knew what hit me.

skeetermooch posted 11/9/2020 18:43 PM

Because dealing with it would have dislodged that terrible, traumatic, horrible, unthinkable thing that happened to him when he was an adolescent that he'd stuffed away.

I wonder - I'll never know what it is. My STBX talks quite freely about being sexually abused by his step-sister and stepmom as a young boy, being abandoned on and off my his gambling addicted and much-married mother (I think it was 12 or 14 marriages - no joke!). None of this seems terribly emotional for him - maybe he's accustomed to telling the story. I don't know. I can't imagine what worse trauma there could be and why he'd experience it as any more shameful than what he shares so readily but clearly something caused him to become personality disordered.

[This message edited by skeetermooch at 6:44 PM, November 9th (Monday)]

20yrsagoBS posted 11/9/2020 19:24 PM

Skeeter,


How does abusing the one youíre supposed to love above all others, soothe the hurt from childhood wounds?


It doesnít.


I bring it up because I was molested by my father from age 5-11.


I did worry I would do the same, because he was abused by his brother.


But I didnít, I never have had any desire/urge/temptation, to molest a child.


That just isnít present.


Maybe I am too obstinate or overthinking this, but that makes no sense to me


Hurt someone else so you feel better about being hurt?


Itís apples and oranges to me

BlackRaven posted 11/9/2020 19:57 PM

20yearsagoBS

I'm so sorry you had a childhood like that. I don't want to speak for Skeeter, but I can share my observations. My father was an abused child, and fortunately, he never laid a finger on me. That said, I've come to realize that he's not entirely emotionally healthy in all of his behaviors, and I think I learned certain codependent behaviors that resulted in my marrying a SA.

But your question was:

How does abusing the one youíre supposed to love above all others, soothe the hurt from childhood wounds?

I don't think that SAs set out to abuse the ones they love. I honestly think that they just don't think about it. All addictions have maladaptive thought processes. They think they won't get caught, or they justify it because they blame us for their shitty day, or they feel entitled because we're too tired after dealing with the kids to have sex that week, or they simply can't control the impulse. Kevin T. McCauley, who does research into the neurobiology of addictions, says that all addicts underestimate the consequences and overestimate the rewards. That, combined with their problems with intimacy (read my reply to Skeeter below) and maybe having sex with others 'protects' them from that feeling of intimacy. But I really don't think they think it through to the part of who will get hurt.

Here's an example of the disordered thinking. My WH didn't use a condom. He knows an unfaithful husband who died of AIDS. How could he not put 2 and 2 together? (He also believed that his AP would keep their affair a secret, and would delete her messages so that her husband wouldn't find them. Neither of those things happened. Their coworkers knew because the AP told them, and the BH found out because he discovered the messages.)

Addicts do what they do because they are trying to numb their pain with that dopamine hit, and then they can't function without it. (My WH described his drug use as never feeling 'high' but just wanting to feel 'normal.' ) Whether it's through drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, whatever. SI doesn't allow me to post links, but google "childhood trauma and sexual addiction" and you'll find lots of info.

Skeeter

My STBX talks quite freely about being sexually abused by his step-sister and stepmom as a young boy, being abandoned on and off my his gambling addicted and much-married mother (I think it was 12 or 14 marriages - no joke!).

SA is described as an intimacy disorder, generally resulting from some adverse childhood experience that prevented them from having a secure attachment to their caregivers. That certainly sounds like your STBX. It is interesting (sad) that he was open about it but never sought treatment.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 9:46 PM, November 9th (Monday)]

skeetermooch posted 11/9/2020 21:39 PM

How does abusing the one youíre supposed to love above all others, soothe the hurt from childhood wounds?


It doesnít.


Yes, agreed. For me, experiencing physical abuse and some neglect as a child made me want to redo my childhood by parenting my children as healthily as possible and I think I did a pretty good job. Other folks seem to adopt a revenge on the world attitude. My STBX abandoned his daughter. He also has frequently expressed bitter jealousy towards healthy, normal people - including me - he's so resentful that I have my kids's love and a home, etc. It's like it's a zero sum game. I got those things so he couldn't. He fails to recognize the personal responsibility involved in making one's life.

SA is described as an intimacy disorder

Yes, I've read this. The TINSA book explains that since they fear true intimacy and can't have it with their partners, hookers and such are safe ways to experience intimacy, because they're contained and limited.

It is interesting (sad) that he was open about it but never sought treatment.

Telling the story is another way he manipulates sympathy. And even if it really happened - who knows with him - he's made it just another tool in his manipulation kit, thus distancing himself from the reality of it. He's not sad about it. He's not pained. I think he was so damaged at such a young age that he's beyond those emotions. If you scratch below the surface, he's seething with anger. He changes his story a lot around why he cheated/acted out but at times he claims it's because he knew I was going to make a chump of him and leave him one day so he figured he might as well. Crazy because I was so devoted. I so adored him.

LadyG posted 11/10/2020 20:44 PM

Today I thought I would be ready for new beginnings but everything is so up and down and back and forth this week.

My fur baby went to doggy heaven yesterday and I feel so empty although I thought I was prepared to let her go.

My business is up in the air and I am ready to sell or shut the doors on it.

I have a lovely day planned for Saturday with my new friend. Heís taking me out for a drive in the countryside. We have had our local travel restrictions lifted. Itís like being released from prison. I feel overwhelmed by the outside World.

We have all the trauma from the past to deal with all the while the future looks like a blur. My divorce is still on hold. I need a fast forward button as the present is emotionally and physically draining. I now understand how stress and depression makes you sicker than cancer. I can barely lift myself out of bed.

I want and need something good to look forward to.

2020 has been a nightmare year.

Superesse posted 11/10/2020 22:25 PM

(((Lady G)))

How sad to lose your fur baby, with all this insanity. I know what you mean about that surreal feeling...been dealing with it since March, myself.

Somehow life shifted, and I wonder if it will ever go back to the way it was before "covid." I do hope your grief for your loss and those overwhelmed feelings will pass, if you acknowledge how much it all is to deal with. I know, it's a real shock being "let out of prison."

skeetermooch posted 11/10/2020 23:33 PM

Lady G, so sorry about your fur baby. This year has majorly sucked. I can't believe all the crap that's happened in the world and in my own life. I need a win too. I hope 2021 brings us all blessings and peace.

20yrsagoBS posted 11/11/2020 23:18 PM

Oh LadyG. (Hugs)


Damn dogs donít live long enough!


LemonSpearmint posted 11/12/2020 00:03 AM

20yrsagoBS - I'm sorry that happened to you. And I admire your stance on the topic.

LadyG - sending hugs. Sorry about your fur baby. Hope things start getting better asap.

Hoping that for all of you ladies!

Throwaway999 posted 11/12/2020 05:18 AM

LadyG - hugs being sent your way...I am so sorry about losing your fur baby 😥

BentandBroken posted 11/12/2020 08:40 AM

LadyG, I am so sorry you lost your fur baby, on top of everything else you're dealing with! Wishing you strength. This is so hard.

20yrsagoBS posted 11/12/2020 15:04 PM

Blahhh!


I just posted about this in General too


We had a hurricane make landfall last night. I had to go out in it to see a patient

It scared my little dog into having diarrhea all over my bathroom floor

Then the end of the charger cable broke off in my phone.

This morning the air conditioner stopp working

Dog had more diarrhea

I have another Pt to see tonight

I received an email from WHís alma mater (where he conducted one affair) asking for some participation on some committee. I responded kind of harshly

WH is still in Colorado , so missed all of it

[This message edited by 20yrsagoBS at 3:05 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

LemonSpearmint posted 11/12/2020 15:48 PM

20yrsagoBS - what an absolute doozy of a day! Make sure you take a minute to just think about how incredibly awesome you are to handle all of that on top of everything else. You're a bad ass!

Also, the convenient timing of men, who always manage to be out of the way when shit hits the fan

20yrsagoBS posted 11/12/2020 21:19 PM

Lemon,


AC went down again tonight, so my son and I rigged it to override the auto shut off.

If it burns out the motor, OH Well


Iím a participant of Betrayed Womenz, a necessary trait is being a Bad Ass

I just cannot find my sparkly panties


I should shop for some! Iím think sparkly purple!

20yrsagoBS posted 11/15/2020 17:37 PM

The Karma bus made a full stop in Colorado Springs today!


WH has been there since Oct 19th for work.


Today he received notice that one of the contractors working on his project tested positive for COVID

He was supposed to fly home this Friday. Now he must quarantine for 14 days.

Now weíre waiting to find out if itís 14 days from today or last Tuesday when he last worked with the COVID positive guy

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