SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

To use a poker analogy, your wayward wife and her paramour have a bad hand but they are good at bluffing, hoping to use your good nature against you to keep you quiet and manipulate you.

You need to realize that you are holding a royal flush. They are hoping that you don't figure that out.

Hopefully you will be able to get in touch with his wife soon. I can guarantee you that you will feel like a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders once you inform her what her husband has been up to for the last decade. It will be empowering and a good first step to take control of the situation. You need to protect yourself and your children.

I think you are figuring out that your wife is a garden variety cheater. Nothing unique or special about her affair.

...she kept complaining that I am controlling, that she never liked that about me, and she hates to be "spied on" like that, that she has no privacy (she was actually crying about these things one morning!).

Cheater manipulation comes in three flavors.. charm, rage, and self-pity. Once you can identify them freely, they lose their impact.

I've been also feeling that dread lately, that they have been playing 3D chess behind my back while I was the unidimensional "nice guy" loser stuck on the same line (dot) of inaction.

So, get some legal advice. What does your financial picture look like if you go for conventional divorce as opposed to suing on grounds as well as possibly suing your employer? Married 30 years, you're going to get half of whatever is accrued, including her retirement. If she's making a good bit more than you, maybe even spousal support. I get it that you don't want to blow her shit up at work. Although, I must say, it's a crying shame to think that a guy who abused his position so horribly will skate. Who knows how many people have suffered because of this breach in ethics. But... I get it. Not your problem. Your problem is making sure that you're getting as much as you can out of your divorce settlement, because the more you can get, the more you can guarantee that your kids still have someone to fall back on.

Do consider informing the OBS though. She's at risk of being taken for a ride in her own divorce, that is.. if the POSOM doesn't throw your WW under the bus. You don't want that on your conscience. You're going to have enough to unpack emotionally dealing with the end of a 30 year marriage.

"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

What I think you haven't considered is how much power you have in the current situation.

The AP wouldn't just be ruined if this got out. He would probably end up doing prison time.

He took grant money, hired a person he was having an affair with and if probably would be called out for embezzlement.

He is trying to keep the WS and the BS from saying anything because it would destroy his whole life. I also bet he has done this to a previous researcher. This isn't an isolated incident. Just something to think about.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 12:20 PM, May 4th (Monday)]

I'm considering the 180 more seriously now (thanks to many of your messages), at least for my own sanity, I have to do that.

I hope for the sake of the other BS's sanity and justice and right to know, you will take that same high road you spoke of, and bring her into loop that you are in. If she were left brutalized on the street, you would surely feel compelled to offer immediate aid to whatever degree that you could. You are the only one that can offer her aid that she desperately needs, and she is being brutalized. The only difference is the her ability to react and heal is being denied by those that are in the know.

If informing the other BS has some trickle down impact on your cheating wife, you have no accountability to that. It would be a consequence of the risk and choices she is making, not you.

She could have left you. He could have left his wife. They both made hundreds of well planned and executed choices to manipulate and rob others of the right to choose. Neither made a mistake. There was an honorable way to do what they are doing. It did not have to be done with deception and callous disregard for those that have been duped and manipulated. Taking the road they took comes with consequences. You have nothing to do with or any responsibility for the consequences either of them may face as the veil of dishonesty and deceit is lifted.

Inform the other BS.

[This message edited by DIFM at 7:49 AM, May 4th, 2020 (Monday)]

Pretty much everything has been said here, lots of great advice. One thing that hasn't really been hammered home is how invested you are in your wife's brilliance. I was in your shoes. My ex was very successful in his field and looking back, I see the majority of my self-pride was in being his wife. I loved to hear his stories of the famous people he worked with. My identity was the two of us, not myself alone. Loosing that terrified me maybe as much than loosing the idea of love, financial stability, or companionship. I promise you, this sense of loss will pass. I still think my ex is great at what he does, and still share that pride with our son if it comes up. But, it isn't as impressive as it's made out to be when you are no longer connected to them. Your wife is 'cool, but not that cool' if that makes any sense. There are plenty of others smarter than she is. It is her thing, not yours. In my case I started to do more of what I always loved back when I first was married. Now that is what I think about, not how awesome I perceive my ex to be. Not sure if you are as invested over-the-top as I was but there seems to be at least some of this in your case.

lbh, i'm curious what your actual plans are? You are "considering" the 180? Have you contacted an attorney? Have you documented the A in any way?

You have received some good advice, and everyone understands that it is hard to change from what you thought was a loving marriage, but your actions now are not helping you. Your WW is a liar and a cheater and doesn't care about you. She is going to be protecting herself, you need to do the same.

I'm just catching up on your story.

I appreciate the nuanced way you are approaching this situation. There can be a bloodlust to the "scorched earth" approach that I don't think serves anyone. What you need are boundaries to protect yourself from further mistreatment. That will likely include living in truth for your and the other BS's wellbeing, but the goal is not to humiliate the cheaters for punishment or to induce them to quit the affair. None of us really wants our cheater to choose reconciliation because we shamed them into it.

As you are figuring out, you are dealing with someone who is trying to reframe reality so that you are the villain. She has a deep psychological need to do this. Therefore, you cannot interact with her in a rational fashion. You put up boundaries and if she can't respect them, then she doesn't get to interact with you. You're trying to play by the rules of honesty and giving the benefit of the doubt, but she rewrote the game years ago without telling you. That's where the 180 comes in. You step back. Protect yourself. Figure out what you need. Get that legal advice.

In particular I deeply appreciate Okokok's replies who already helped me see things more clearly and forced me to ask myself some very serious questions. (Okokok I'm still pondering over your last message, which was truly excellent, I'll prepare my reply -- I'm agreeing with most of what you wrote there).

Great. I'll await your reply on those things and in the meantime go through your most recent post for anything helpful I can find.

I am not ready to make the mother of my children suffer so much by destroying her professional life

I agree with you here in principle: your goal should not be, and should *never* be, to make your WW suffer for the sake of revenge. That is not what this is about.

I would advise you to ignore any post that encourages you to be vindictive, spiteful, or to make your wife "suffer" for suffering's sake.

I would also advise you to begin trying to wrap your head around this concept, though: it is possible that some steps you will need to take *will* cause some "suffering" for your WW.

What I mean by that is, there are some steps you will need to take that will make your wife *uncomfortable* and *unhappy*. There is no other way to walk this walk from here, and you would be wise to begin recognizing those things that you will eventually need to do *even if* your wife doesn't like it.

I am hoping you can separate in your mind the very distinct concepts of (1) "protecting your wife from all suffering" vs. (2) "not going out of your way to inflict suffering on your wife." There is a difference. (1) is not for you to be concerned about, but (2) is very appropriate.

Even if you believe in your heart of hearts that you are willing to fully martyr yourself in order to spare your wife from "suffering," at the very least you should recognize that some of the steps you need to take are for the health and well-being of your children. Think of them if you can't easily think of yourself.

we both want to minimize the trauma for our children now, and amicable separation + co-parenting might be effectively the best way to achieve that.

Good. You're right.

I don't think it is such a terrible thing to admit that indeed I tried to take the "high road" initially because I really thought (and wanted her to see) that my love for her can be that selfless as to allow her to be happy with the AP because she seems so in love with him.

I also agree with you here. This is actually a very common mindset that *most* new BS's adopt. This includes me. As a brand-new BS, I did whatever I could with my words, actions, and attitude to try to demonstrate to my wife that I could be selfless, compassionate, forgiving, etc. That I had the potential to be calm, to grow, to learn to be OK even after infidelity. That I wanted more than anything else for her to be happy, feel that she could count on me for compassion and love *no matter* the circumstances, etc.

Many, many, many BS's do this. It is a natural approach to take, and there is nothing "terrible" about the fact that this is what you have done, too.

However--and here, I would refer you all the way back to my first post on this thread--all BS's do eventually come to see that this approach is actually counterproductive to achieving the goal that they hope to achieve. It sounds to me like you're beginning to awaken to that fact.

In my case, this approach resulted in my wife continuing to have a boyfriend and treat me poorly. Like you, I suddenly was hearing that I was "controlling" and always had been, that I was "toxic" to her, and even that I was "abusive" by nature.

Around here, you may hear this approach referred to as "trying to nice them back." Sometimes it takes the form of "the pick-me dance." Occasionally, it's just a form of "rug-sweeping." You have referred to it as "taking the high road."

No matter what we call it or what nuances exist in anyone's specific situation, it's always the same general story: a BS takes this approach, and the WS continues the affair in one form or another. The BS suffers through days, months (sometimes years) of a hell they truly cannot comprehend, and the WS internalizes a very clear message: "I can do literally whatever I want, and my husband will always be here."

They do not literally say this to themselves. They are not conscious of it. But this is the message they receive. And the affair never, ever, ever stops as long as BS continues to act in this way.

And, as a logical, intelligent person, you may ask yourself this question: why would it?

It doesn't matter if a BS has 100 logical discussions with WS about that fact that they're "serious" about separation or divorce. Their actions and attitude have already indicated that they're *not* serious and that they will definitely still be there if the WS "chooses" the BS over the AP.

Of course my mistake was to not really push for including his wife in the conversation, when he agreed to have that talk.

I can see why you would think this is your mistake; in a normal, acceptable social situation, you would intuitively know that it is not "your business" whether this man's wife joins a phone call or not, but rather his business to make it happen (or not).

However, you are not in a normal, acceptable social situation. You are in a situation where your life is being manipulated by two people. You are in an *antisocial* situation.

I can tell that you're seeing that more and more. So while you continue to ponder whether to tell this man's wife about what's been happening, consider this: *she* is in the same situation that *you* are in currently; she just is less aware. Her gut is likely screaming at her, though. And as the clock continues to tick, this man, AP, is setting her (and you) up more and more. He's had a month, actually, to tell her god only knows what about you: that you're crazy, that you're a stalker, that you've become a jealous psychopath, etc.

My point: you and the OBS are in the same boat. This affair is a *shared* issue between you and her. It is *your* business to share this information about the affair with her, not her husband's. Throw social norms out the window. You're in bizarro world.

It still goes almost without saying: inform the OBS, and this affair has the potential to end virtually instantaneously.

But that's up to you.

she kept blaming me for it, not only because I was a terrible husband 12+ years ago, but also because how mismatched and "toxic" (for her) our relationship has been even in the last 10 years.

Yep, you're right. Typical. It is what I call "active affair behavior." The only thing that empowers a spouse to talk like this is the active existence of another lover. If you have the inner strength, you can dismiss these comments by your wife, though I know they're hurtful.

so she won't be the one to blame that she asked for it.

This is meaningless from both a legal and practical standpoint.

(which she took plenty lately but in a couple of cases she "forgot" her phone at home or somehow disabled her location..).

You know exactly what happened at those times.

And I'm planning to stop it -- though maybe not as vigorously as some of the posters here would want me to.

Only you can decide what you will do. Take what you can use here and leave the rest.

What do you think your "less-vigorous" plans will be?

I'm considering the 180 more seriously now

Good. As I said in my last post, if you can do this--*really* do it--your world will change for the better in ways you almost cannot see right now. It is always the case.

~

I'm glad you're still posting. Please continue to do so. Things can change for you. They really can.

In my last post, I detailed in bold an adaptable statement that can get you going on the 180 (which, yes, will by necessity include mindful steps forward toward divorce). I am truly interested in your thoughts regarding that.

[This message edited by Okokok at 10:00 AM, May 4th (Monday)]

Ibh,

About the OM, when you speak with his wife and for a ten year affair I would visit in person, don't be surprised if there is much more you find out.

The OMW might know of many more affairs, even ones still going on, that OM visits prostitutes and things like that.

If that is true it may help your WW to see the true character of the OM, who worse than all of the above was and is destroying the family of your children.

Please realize that for 1/3 of your marriage your WW was in an affair.

Don't warn or threaten exposure do it and do it massively and suddenly in parallel.

[This message edited by survrus at 9:59 AM, May 4th (Monday)]

Another benefit to not warning before exposure to the Other Betrayed Spouse is that you'll quickly see if she has been honoring No Contact. She'll initially be mad, but when presented with divorce papers because she broke NC is the most important tool in your toolchest. It puts the game back in your court.

And of course it's fair. It's an ethical, humane action on top of the right course in terms of strategy. And if your wife wants to talk about fair, did she warn you before she started having an affair? He false equivalence will be complete hogwash and dismiss it by not even addressing it when brought up.

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:20 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

This thread seems familiar. Did you post it on Reddit at some point?

To be blunt, if her professional life meant so much to her, then why the fuck did she put it in jeopardy by sleeping with this guy and carrying on a long term relationship with him?

That is a key point. The only person with any respect for 'professional life' is lbh50. His wife and the professor forfeited any right to be considered 'professional' when they began their unethical (and as another poster suggested, potentially illegal) personal relationship.

At present, they are not professionals. They are a pair of corrupt frauds, in both their work and personal lives. Their biggest concern is that their unethical actions should not be discovered, not the damage that they are doing to the other people in their lives.

I was struck by the fact that when the corrupt professor told lbh50 that his contract was not going to be renewed because his continued presence might create a 'hostile' work environment for the wife who betrayed him, the wife did absolutely nothing to intervene, despite the impact that job loss would have on lbh50 and their children, and despite the grossly unprofessional and unethical nature of that shameful attack on her husband and fellow reseracher.

lbh50 had to defend himself alone. It is significant that his defence caused the corrupt professor to back-pedal immediately, anxious that his totally unprofessional and potentially legally actionable attempt to damage the career of the husband of the subordinate that he was having a decade-long affair with out of his job might come to light.

The lack of intervention by lbh50's wife, who must have known what her affair partner was doing to her husband, speaks volumes about how far removed she is from professional and personal ethics.

Intelligence without integrity and compassion is a very dangerous thing, and that is why so many here are sounding the alarm, in the hope that lbh50 will not sleepwalk into an ambush, believing that he is dealing with people who have scruples, or any interest in his well-being.

lbh50, you may not have been a perfect husband. You may have had a period where you consider that you abused your wife. You have taken ownership of that. However, your actions do not in any way justify the decade-long abuse you have been subjected to by the affair your wife and the professor chose to have. The ownership of that is 100% on them.

Please get legal advice to protect yourself and your children to the fullest extent that the law can provide.

Self-defense is not an attack on your wife; it is you preventing two abusive people from damaging your life (and the lives of your children), any further than they have already done.

You are a much better man than you give yourself credit for, lbh50. And your wife and the professor ceased to be professional, ethical people with integrity, a long time ago.

I rarely post here and rarely log in, but your post made me recover my credentials just to be able to respond.

I will not give relationship advice here. I am not qualified in comparison to the others here.

I am, however, a lawyer.

Please DO NOT take this as legal advice. I am unfamiliar with the laws that govern your area and I do not practice in employment law normally. Again, do NOT take this as legal advice.

What you describe here is something you need to talk to a lawyer about ASAP. As in, you need to make the call right now. As soon as you finish reading this if you do. Right now.

For ten years you have been employed by a man that is romantically involved with your wife. He has controlled your performance evaluations (in some fashion). He has likely controlled how others perceive your work in this department. Most of this has been colored by the benefits he had with your wife.

Now that the affair is uncovered, it is likely that the university will want to jettison you, rather than the accomplished professor that controls a large amount of grant funding. They will want to remove problems. This is employment law 101.

Likewise, contacting Human Resources may hurt a potential case you might have. They protect the employer, not you.

I would expect what is about to happen is trumped up reasons, bad performance evaluations, or other reasons to lay you off. Also, in the time of COVID, it is likely there will be layoffs that could be 'unrelated' to the massive situation that you find yourself in.

You have a fighting chance here to protect yourself and your kids. Yes, I said your kids. They need you to be able to make a living. Right now, should your wife and her AP decide to make it official, the university will likely see it prudent to move or jettison you. If they fire you for trumped up reasons, it might be difficult, if not impossible, to be employed again.

Even stuff you might be doing RIGHT NOW could have an impact on any case you have.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, call an employment law attorney right now.

You can decide what you want to do with your relationship later. You can ignore the lawyer's advice and do what you want. That is your choice. But, right now, call a lawyer. Put down the phone or laptop and start googling employment lawyers. Call them. Right now. And send him or her right after that zoom call. Let him or her keep it for you.

I have seen this play out in different contexts. The university is not going get rid of the professor with grant funding. They are not going to get rid of your wife, who would have an excellent chance at her own lawsuit. You, as the IT guy, like it or not, are the most expendable. And right now, when they might be considering layoffs, this would leave you unemployed.

I cannot say this enough, CALL A LAWYER.

Source - I am a lawyer. Do not take this as legal advice. Please retain a specialist in your area.

You are an honest, upstanding guy. That makes it hard for you to understand those that aren’t.

Waggingthedog's post is incredibly important.

Listen to him. You lose nothing and stand to gain everything by speaking to an attorney. Take this seriously.

This thread seems familiar. Did you post it on Reddit at some point?

Yes, 2-3 weeks ago, much closer to Dday. A very supportive fellow there (who is also a member here) suggested I should post it here as I could get better quality answers and advice. I can see that he was right.

Friend, you are making the mistake many,many new BS make when they join our club. You believe your cheating wife is special. That she is different than our cheating spouses. And, in this case, I will agree. She is different. A ten year are affair is something most of us haven't had to deal with.

But,other than that, she's no different. She's a liar. A cheater. During the affair, she was a lousy parent. She's highly manipulative. Diabolical. She was able to look at you, a million times in the last decade and betray you. Over,and over. It's mind boggling.

She is an abuser. Affairs are a form of extreme abuse. A 10 year affair? This is who she is.

Please tell his wife. If he is planning on leaving her, she deserves the chance to protect herself financially. At the very least, she deserves to protect herself physically.

You may have not been a good husband for a few years. That does not give her reason to cheat several years later. It is reason to divorce,but not to cheat.

You are not controlling. If you were, she never would have been able to get away with a 10 year affair.

The advice here may be harsh, but it comes from hard earned wisdom. Every person who has responded wants the best for you. It's not about revenge. It's about protecting yourself.

Stop being Mr Nice Guy. She and her OM are using it to their advantage. Stand up for yourself, and your kids. Don't tolerate one more day of disrespect and abuse.

Thank you so much Waggingthedog for commenting in this thread I really appreciate your advice. I will contact a lawyer as soon as possible (joint account with WW so I'd like to take some precautions that she does not find out).

I have a clarification and a recent development related to this:

* all the performance reviews that the AP gave me over the years were very positive (that might not mean much, just pointing it out)

* after Dday the AP has used his high-level contacts in the field to get me some interviews with another place in an attempt to secure me a good position elsewhere while promising good referrals etc. (that makes sense, he/they want to get rid of me from the current office, without ruining me and thus endangering the welfare of my children -- it seems clear he does not plan to take over my children, just my wife)

* I had a few interviews with members of that place a couple of weeks ago that were very positive and today just got an email from their Chief of Staff for a call tomorrow, it sounds like they are going to offer me a position there.

If the salary negotiations go well tomorrow, that looks like a very good place for me to start a new (professional) life (I really like what they are doing there). The position seems quite solid too (in terms of funding etc.). I don't think the AP really wants me without a job, he would then have to help WW with her children etc. He just wants me out of their way at their current work place.

So if the danger of ending up unemployed due to their affair disappears, should I still contact an employment lawyer? or just a "regular" lawyer ? Sorry if I sound so naive, I've never had to deal with lawyers before..

[This message edited by lbh50 at 5:10 PM, May 9th (Saturday)]

IBH 50

I am on a conference call right now but I will type something out for you in a second.

Google "employment lawyer in my area" type in the phone number and hit 'call' right. now.

I will type out why after this. Please for the love of god do it. There will be some that give consults over the phone.

Again, you don't need to take the advice, but you need talk to one RIGHT NOW.