SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wanted to say more yesterday, but I was on my phone last night and it's a pain to reply on.

I can see her manipulation, as can everyone else here. Every single time the conversations get hard, she gets upset, and you end up being the one comforting her. WHY WHY WHY!?!?!?!?! Her IC needs to be doing that, not you. She should be groveling at your feet right now. She should have read the book you asked her to read immediately, and in a day or two, and then asked for another. Everything she is reading should be about affair recovery, or books like Not Just Friends.

Again, have the STD tests been done? If not, WHY NOT? They obviously weren't using protection. This must be done.

GENTLY, you are the posterchild for codependency. Please read up on that and watch youtube videos, whatever you need to understand this and break free. It might take some time. It took me 2.5 years to come to terms with it and break free myself.

Now, I am going to yell at you. Please please please hear what I am going to say.

YOU CANNOT SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE BY YOURSELF. YOU DIDN'T BREAK IT. SHE DID. SHE HAS TO DO THE WORK AND SHE HAS TO LEAD THE WAY OR IT WILL NOT BE TRUE RECONCILIATION. JUST STOP. STOP.

If you have to push her to do it, it isn't genuine and it won't get you anywhere. You can set your requirements and your boundaries, but you cannot nice her into following through. She knows you love her, Bahama, and she is using that against you.

Watch her, see what she does, do not listen to what she says (well, maybe a little but with a cup of salt). These will probably be two totally different things.

Also, as a SAH parent to another, get a job. It will help you with the 180 to be busy, and if this marriage doesn't work out, you will already have an avenue of income.

I know how hard this is, I do. We all do. I know how tempting it is to believe the best, and to be optimistic. I'm not saying don't do that. But, please remember what your wife is capable of. Was she sobbing about how terrible and guilty and lost she felt while another man's penis was inside of her? I think not.

If you haven't already, read LtCdrLost story from the beginning. He handled his situation like a real man, and it was very attractive to read. Hear what I am saying here. Take charge.

Kudos on not sending that letter. I couldn't even finish it.

she is just not of sound mind enough to plot and scheme the way some of you are suggesting right now

Bahama,

The manipulation that I am seeing isn't calculated. That's not how any of this works. Saying that is like saying that we flinch because we can see the future.

Her manipulations are part of an intricate set of bad coping strategies that she has built over a very long time. She doesn't sit down and write up a plan to manipulate you, but she does manipulate you because it's the best way to escape pain, accountability and consequences.

Bahama, how are you feeling today? How did your wife's IC session go.

I just wanted to offer a few words of encouragement to you. You have remained remarkably level-headed and compassionate in the face of this absolute sh*t storm. I am in awe of how much insight you have for someone in your situation. When I was in your place I was barely functioning. It is still so (SOO!) early and just because your wife is in a fog and is not acting rationally, it doesn't mean it will always be like this. You are in hell right now and I do not envy you a bit. Please do not compare yourself to others, as every person, and every relationship is different. I cannot imagine having had the ability to lurk on the details of the WS/OBS.

I want you to know that no matter how harsh the responses you have received may SEEM in your understandably fragile state, we REALLY are rooting for you. YOU are the person we know. YOU are who were are invested in and protective of. You, on the other hand, love your wife, you have a history with her, and you are reflexively protective of her (and your marriage). This is typically a good thing, but it can make hearing 2x4s difficult. You'll hear it a million times, but please take what makes sense to you and leave the rest.

While we all have experience with infidelity, very few of us are true experts, and all of us come with our very own (very loaded) pasts which necessarily colour our opinions/suggestions. As such, there is ABSOLUTELY an element of projection. We have all made mistakes, and because we want the best from you, we hope you wont make the same ones. That said, we all make mistakes for a reason (this sh*t is HARD!!!) and this is the LAST place you will be judged for them. My observation (as a regular lurker and infrequent poster), is also that BHs appear to get "tougher love" than BWs. If I'm honest, I think that the fact that you are a SAHP (a dad in particular) has also coloured some of the responses you've received. You owe us nothing, but I hope you are not deterred from posting. I myself did not have the strength to subject myself to the opinions of others in the immediate aftermath of D-day. I wish I had, I have seen so much valuable insight provided on this site.

I have a very close friend/former roommate who your wife reminds me of. She, too, is a is a massive over-achiever/perfectionist and coincidentally also suffers from extreme depression and anxiety. She has the most generous/nurturing heart and is a wonderful person, but tends to be very self-focused. This tendency is exacerbated during periods of extreme stress/turmoil and she is absolutely at her worst when she does not have “a plan”. She also fixates on very specific things that seem illogical/impractical during these periods (like your wife and the puppy). I don’t understand it well, but I am very protective of her because I love her and frankly, she needs this support. I don’t mention this for any other reason, other than to say, I think I get it.

((Bahama))

Ranting as a member:

I wish this bullshit about Bahama being a SAHD would stop. If I recall accurately, Bahama sacrificed his specialized career so that his WW could pursue hers and live close to family. How much would WW enjoy her career if she was dragging two young kids off to daycare and paying out a ton of money for strangers to look after her precious babies? My husband isn’t currently working and my god - the difference it makes in my life!!! I can stay late at work, not worry about grocery shopping, driving my daughter to work everyday and my son to university. I come home to a spotless house with a delicious dinner on the table. It’s a life of luxury I swear! I am grateful my husband is taking care of the shitty mundane parts of life and my kids are young adults!

This isn’t a case of Bahama being a slacker, drinking beer and playing video games all day. This was a deal he and his wife agreed to. If she was second guessing this mutual choice, she could have suggested they move back to where Bahama had career opportunities and pay daycare fees and split the daily chores to raise a family. How much do you want to bet that WW wouldn’t have had time to travel the world biking and swimming if her SAHD/husband wasn’t holding down the home front?

Real men sacrifice for their families. They take an active role in raising the children. Real men support their wife’s career aspirations and compromise to do what’s best for the family. They do their part. Real men are FAITHFUL. In my opinion, Bahama is the fucking epitome of a real man.

Yes, he’s now in a precarious predicament being so far away from his career location. This happens when we put our trust in a spouse and take a chance. If D is in the future, he’ll need to rethink his options. But not now. Not while he’s still reeling, his kids need his stability, not to mention his getting a job is now his foggy, unremorseful WW’s idea. No more trust. Do what’s right for you as you find a way through this shit storm Bahama. And you are very much a real man deserving of respect from your WW.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:56 PM, March 14th (Thursday)]

I agree with Sassylee.

Here, here, sassylee!!!

Sassy, I don't think anyone here is saying that there's something wrong with being a SAHD. What they are saying, however, is that it's an arrangement that a great many women are flat-out not okay with and that many more will claim to be okay with, maybe even believe what they're saying, but in the end it'll be a source of resentment and lack of respect. Traditional norms and expectations run deep, and we as a society are still a long way from being okay with men breaking away from traditional roles in the same way that we've become okay with women breaking away from theirs.

One of the many complaints my exWW made about me the day she told me she wanted a divorce was quite similar to what Bahama's WW told him. She said she felt like I was using her to get a free ride in life. Nevermind the fact that she was two years older than me and that she already had her degree and was working in her chosen field when we got married while I was still a student. Nevermind the fact that we had a child sooner than we planned and we agreed that I would put my career development on hold and only work part-time so that we didn't need to spend money on nannies or daycare. Nevermind the fact that I was the one who did all of the yardwork, all of the housework, and 90% of the cooking. All she saw was that she was the one paying the bills and building our savings, and the agreement we made, that she suggested in the first place, and that she never once expressed any dissatisfaction with prior to telling me we were through, didn't mean shit to her because in her stupid, immature, fucked up heart she wanted a traditional breadwinner husband.

There's nothing wrong with being a SAHD or being in a marriage where your wife makes the majority of the money. Not a damn thing. What's wrong is the deeply internalized beliefs many women have about it, and I'm far from the only man who's dealt with this particular issue.

It's not that Bahama shouldn't a SAHD because being a SAHD is lame and unmanly, it's because there are just way too many women who will never truly respect a man who takes on a domestic role and doesn't bring in much (or any) money.

As a SAHM I couldn’t agree more with sassy lee! Leaving a career to raise the kids was a choice made by Bahama and his wife. Thank you sassy lee for your post.

Sooooo - when Bahamas WW agreed to this arrangement - and then became resentful, she’s only now - mere weeks from ending her affair gets to call the shots? If a woman wants this and then changes her mind - a BH should kiss her ass and jump to get a job? Seriously? The time for her to renogiate their arrangement was before she nuked her family’s security and had an affair - not after.

Down the road once Bahama is well into his healing - then the pre affair issues can be tackled. Not now - not next week or next month. She better figure out why she feels ENTITLED to her resentment. It’s a WW problem - not a Bahama problem right now. IC for her to figure out why she can’t stage her needs like an adult (I suspect she didn’t because her resentment didn’t start until after her affair started and to ask him to resume his career would mean give up triathelons and her extramarital affair).

Sassylee- I agree 100%. That was the reason I mentioned it at all (in case that was not clear).

Amen, Sassy!

I'm the primary earner in my family and it was NOT by agreement. I went to work because my husband was paralyzed by depression and anxiety, and didn't give enough of a rip to prevent us from becoming homeless. One of the conditions of staying married was that had to change. Because he did use that time to cheat on me.

There always seems to be a reason:

- He's a stay at home dad - a ripe situation for cheating!

- She's a stay at home mom - a ripe situation for cheating!

- He works like crazy to support the home - a ripe situation for cheating!

- She works like crazy to support the home - a ripe situation for cheating!

- They both work - a ripe situation for cheating!

- One of the spouses enjoys crossfit/running/working out - a ripe situation for cheating!

There is always a reason, but the reason usually is that one spouse is selfish and untrustworthy!

I think it has less to do with Bahama being a Stay at Home Dad and more with the overall relationship dynamic.

In this case, all evidence points to Bahama always accommodating her needs first, even after she has cheated in an especially hurtful, sneaky, and disgusting way.

It makes me wonder if his being at a stay at home dad was specifically to accommodate her career?

If his getting a vasectomy was to accommodate her desire to no longer take birth control?

And so on, and then she uses his willingness to accommodate as a bludgeon against him: "I take care of everything" etc.

I think that a couple should absolutely accommodate each other, but they should not lose themselves in the process.

And even then, a shitty person as your spouse can very easily end up in infidelity.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 10:51 PM, March 14th (Thursday)]

No, Sassy, he should not bend over backwards to appease her.

Frankly, he should be on a trajectory for divorce until and unless she can show some sustained semblance of removing her head from her forth point of contact.

Please understand that I have zero problem with Bahama, or any productive SAHD when I say these things.

I wish all women with a SAHD husband could muster the respect you have for yours. But many (I would argue most, but it could be argued either way) do not. Men are measured in large part for their ability to provide, among other things.

This laid one more brick in the foundation of Bahama's wife's lack of respect for him. As misguided as her wayward mind may be, it clearly does not work for her.

An argument can be made that she is encouraging him back to work to somehow mitigate alimony.

It may be true.

It may be that she's just an asshole (my bet).

Or perhaps both.

Either way, she is a shining example of why I would tell my son that only under the most dire circumstances should he consider becoming a SAHD, and that it be temporary.

In order to truly analyze, it is absolutely essential that we not confuse what is with what we wish to be.

What about a "Work from Home Dad"?

Izzat good or bad?

I don’t buy his being a SAHD has anything to do with her disrespect. We ran into financial difficulty recently. I said to my husband - I think it’s time...having a second income would help tackle this debt. He was quiet for a bit and asked me if that was the reason I wanted him to go back - or was it something else. I assured him no! I am thoroughly enjoying our status quo - but our debt... he asked me if I’d be okay with him trying to find an alternate solution. I said sure! He came back and told me he found a way to consolidate our debt at a 15% lower interest rate. He then signed us up for budget counselling with a financial fitness non profit so we wouldn’t get in trouble again. Now if he had failed to find a solution and still refused to find work - then some resentment would start growing....and I’d come here and ask for help.

I just don’t get how it’s okay to say “Sassy - there are women who say they want to move where their husband’s career has no potential and accept that, want that and encourage their husband to take care of the kids - but she just doesn’t know her own mind. When a woman says that - we shouldn’t believe her because that’s not really how she feels.” I suppose if you’re married to an obtuse or disingenuous woman - a woman who not only doesn’t know her own mind but then can’t speak up when she discovers her true feelings - well - that’s hardly Bahamas problem. That’s a WW problem that requires some intensive therapy. Heaven forbid - she’s working in the medical field - maybe she doesn’t really want to be in a historically male dominated position - maybe she’s going to wake up tomorrow and decide she’s always wanted to be a ballerina.

Sorry - it pisses me off. This woman WANTED this. The issue is NOT that Bahama agreed - it’s that his wife changed the rules mid game and didn’t let Bahama in on the secret.

Bahama - if she keeps pushing the job thing - I’d let her know you’re applying at your previous workplace and moving back with the kids. Wherever you were, I’m sure they had medical centres where she can work....and if not - you can let her know she can stay way home with the kids - and then when she’s. been out of her field for half a decade, start sending her job applications.

I can't disagree with anything you are saying, Sassy.

It is the move (one of many from her) of a self absorbed person.

But let's face it...we often make decisions in life that looked really good on paper, that later proved to be rather terrible. Or perhaps I should speak for myself when I say it...lol.

Then once the decision is set in motion, we are often left with no choice but to ride it out, even if we don't like what it has earned us.

I suspect that is in part what happened.

I sent you a pm

While it's true that there could be some kind of gender bias thing going on, it's equally true that the OP is in a very unsettled situation. It's not unlike what SAHM's deal with when they're financially dependent on a cheater. The OP is only 2-3 weeks out from DDay. This thing could go either way at this point, and whatever payments he'd receive in a D would be unlikely to pay for his current quality of life. The payments would also most likely be of a temporary nature too. And the cheater history doesn't go away. The marriage could dissolve years or even decades from now. Nothing is guaranteed. Circumstances have changed, but more importantly TRUST has changed.

I've been a SAHM in the past, back when it was online cheating and my kids were still small. It sucks to feel like you don't have enough financial freedom to make choices. I can't imagine that being male would be any different than being female under those circumstances. I had given up many years of career-building which might have translated to increased earnings potential. It's actually kind of surprising given my FOO, that I ever agreed to do SAHM to begin with. When my own parents divorced, we ended up below the poverty line. Hell, I spent most of my teenage years only eating once a day and sharing clothes and shoes with my sister. So I know how difficult it is to be poor.

Whether the WW is attempting to manipulate a better settlement or nursing her resentments, the OP isn't in a position of trust with her. We can't control other people. We can only control ourselves. I still think he would be wise to plan for any and all contingencies.

Bahama - if she keeps pushing the job thing - I’d let her know you’re applying at your previous workplace and moving back with the kids. Wherever you were, I’m sure they had medical centres where she can work....and if not - you can let her know she can stay way home with the kids - and then when she’s. been out of her field for half a decade, start sending her job applications.

Perfect response.

Sassy,

I don’t buy his being a SAHD has anything to do with her disrespect.

That is through your lens, and it is not wrong, but nor is it the be all and end all.

One thing I thought was pertinent in LadyBugMaam’s thread, was that the WW loved 50 Shades of . I think it is a load of crock, so I have never read it, but I have read one book of the Twilight series (trying to get in touch with my sensitive side ), and thought it was a load of crock.

Problem, there are people who use books like these to form their world-view. I think they are poor choices, but that is what they have done (my ex loved the Mills & Boon books, and see where that got her).

I think we should stop the thread jack, and get focused on Bahama again.

End t/j

Bahama, howzitgoin?