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Mrs. Wallopped, I don’t really have much to add that hasn’t been stated other than I am grateful you have shared so openly here. I had seen a few of your husband’s posts here and there (and recently a few of yours), but hadn’t known your story. After reading your thread, I read your husband’s initial thread (the 50 page one...I know you have agreed not to read his posts). I believe that you have both worked hard at reconciliation and it is my hope that my husband and I can get to that point.

I can definitely understand what you wrote about how raw and painful reading in JFO can be. I used to make myself read in there daily. Thread after thread. The pain just leaped off the pages - sometimes I felt physically ill as a result. It was hurtful to acknowledge that I was one of the same type of people portrayed there: someone who could cause such enormous pain to my loved ones for no good reason.

I’m grateful to have you here at SI, but join the voices that urge you to pace yourself and to prioritize self-care. I think it’s admirable that you are so openly answering questions about your experience, but don’t want you to develop burnout. Please take your time.

You should know that when I read last night the post by nicenomore’s suggesting a 3 way I thought now that’s a really dumb idea. I doubt Walloped fantasizes about 3 ways (I personally don’t) and who would MrsW feel safe enough with to trust them having sex with her BH? I figured that person probably resides in unicorn land.

Then this morning I thought how about a sexual surrogate recommended by their therapist. A clinical professional as opposed to the world’s oldest type of professional. This could be a nonthreatening situation where W would experience sex with another person with MrsW loving on him while he did it. This clearly would not level the scale of justice but It would provide him with a 2nd sexual partner and help him understand how sex with another person will feel different than sex with your spouse if for no other reason than simply because of difference in body type.

MrsW could view this as lovingly helping him masturbate and because she was present there shouldn’t be any mind movies. The therapist might even suggest to the W’s new techniques in providing pleasure to each other.

Nicenomore’s suggestion might not be such a dumb idea after all.

[This message edited by 40YOSL at 6:16 PM, February 10th (Saturday)]

I kind of get where you guys are coming from.

But having read W’s threads and PM with him in the past, he just doesn’t seem like a guy who would be into that.

No harm in asking him. But I would be really surprised if he was open to it.

It seems like what he grieves is the loss of what once was. And can never be again.

I think all of the threesome talk is just a way to get Walloped off of the high road and bring him down to a cheater's level where they are "even". A planned threesome could NEVER mitigate the deceitfulness of an affair that was kept hidden from the BS.

I also agree with Ramius, I doubt Walloped would even be interested.

It blows my mind that a parent could treat his or her own child this way. That is all I can say.

Mrs. W,

Thank you for your honesty and bravery. Everything you have shared shows you are owning it and moving THROUGH it with BH.

As a FWW myself, I have really had to learn how to make myself happy in healthy ways. Before I staked my happiness on how others responded to me. Has this been a similar experience for you?

I think it is admirable and a good idea that you don’t read Wallopeds posts. It lets him process without that layer of having to also process everything with you. I know with my H sometimes we need to process separately to each heal and help the other heal but also become stronger independently.

As for your comment of yes, you might D Mr. W if he had an A. I totally get this. I think your reasoning was along the lines of, H now knows how bad it is and in addition to it being bad, he is going to do it knowing exactly how bad it will be. That was my struggle after my H had a RA. I asked him many many times how he could do the one thing that made his life so terrible? And his answer wasn’t great-there is no good reason to have an affair, but it had to do with getting his guy mojo back. Anyway, I did not D him (but would have considered it more if it had been prolonged or emotional-it was all physical). Yet, if either of us ever had an A again, the marriage would probably be over. I just don’t think we could go back to ground zero of a bomb like that. The people here who work through multiple betrayals over time, TT over time, etc, etc have amazing strength. Anyway, I heard what you were saying about the D and I get it.

As for this recently brought up topic of doing something sexually for your H-I think sometimes that can be appropriate if it involves the two of you only. With all the boundary issues that have to be addressed post A, IMHO, bringing another person in is a mindF*** (sorry,folks but that is the best word for this) for a Wayward even if it is in the M. If you don’t want your partner to be with someone else, that should mean all the time. Bringing in a third just blurs all those boundary lines that FWS work on.

Lastly, do family and friends in your life know about your A and how do you deal with that?

Sending you both wishes for ongoing healing.

I’m very confused, you’d do everything for your boyfriend because he made you feel nice. That’s not an excuse, that’s called human nature. There are no emotional commodities.

Calling you yummy in a starbucks isn’t childish at all. It’s the same dumb flirting that quite literally every new starry-eyed couple experiences. You loved it. Pretending that it is ‘childish’ now is not addressing the problem. It’s excuse making.

And now your response to the affair is to do everything that Walloped wants, never turn him down, etc. This is patternistic and unauthentic behavior.

If I were Walloped I’d have deep, deep nagging doubts that you were genuie. This is beyond not being able to process exactly what happened with the months of it actually happening and likelihood it would still be going on and have escalated we’re you not caught.

I’m just being honest. You need to address what needs to be addressed.

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Mrs. Wallopped,

Thanks for taking the time to be here and answer questions.

I have one for you. One that I have asked my ww several times.

Can you tell me why compliments from a random guy was more important to you than being a good wife, a good mother and a good person?

What made it worth ruining everything in your life for some stupid comments that AP only said so he could get into your pants?

Why did you keep going back when you knew you were wrong?

I'm more than a little surprised at the suggestion that a threesome might help Walloped heal or a surrogate whatever. What is a person who gets paid for sex called? Whore, gigolo. It doesn't matter how much honey you put on it paid for sex is paid for sex.

If this was a possibility for Walloped I think it would have been discussed by him with MrsWalloped. This is a man with character and integrity. He's proved that throughout his ordeal. How this could even be construed as balancing out an affair with feelings, emotions, connections, dating "highs" is totally beyond me. IMO this would further harm the relationship and harm Walloped by compromising himself. Maybe I'm projecting but I find this totally off base.

I was a virgin when my WW and I first dated. We had sex on our second date. I wed the only woman I'd had sex with. My WW was not a virgin and I knew it. I didn't know the extent of that before we married. I now know there were many, many men. I only wanted her to be true to me. There's a thing in Christianity about starting a new, fresh life in Christ. I was to be her one and only from then on. That was precious to me. Sacred. I understand how this can be so painful for Walloped. Yet he's still in his marriage and still fighting for it to continue. Strength and character.

Someone above mentioned wedding rings. I don't wear mine anymore (mind you, I'm separated). That ring represented WW's sacred promise to me of forsaking all others, better and worse, etc. It means nothing.

She wears my rings to this day, I think. She wore them all the while she was with him. They've been all over his body. She said more than a few times that someone would have to kill her to get her rings off her. They represented my sacred promise to her. That promise was mocked and belittled by her holding his junk and touching the rest of his body with them. That reduces those rings to junk jewelry without meaning to me.

Back to the original reason for this post. It seems to me that the suggestion of threesome or surrogate sex is an enticement to lower one's standards. You know the situations where kids might be lured into bullying or shop lifting or trying just a little of this drug to be accepted into a group or club of some kind. An attempt to lower one's moral standing or integrity or boundaries to a level others fell to themselves and they want company.

Strength and continued healing to Walloped and MrsWalloped.

** posting as a member **

I consider my W to be totally committed to R. In the earliest days, she might have OKed a 3some purely out of co-dependence/self-hate - and it would have been disastrous for our relationship. Now, she'd say 'No.'

(ETA: My W says she would have refused a 3some even when she felt her worst. Even so, our R looks pretty successful over 7 years.)

Her willingness to be herself is an absolutely essential ingredient in our R. I want a partner, not a slave.

I can't help thinking that focusing on the sex between the ap and WS, comparing the WS's sex with the ap and with the BS, keeps the ap in the M.

I know my position is at least a little different from most, since I am so different physically from my W's ap, but I think the only way to R is for both BS and WS to identify what they want to give and get in sex, irrespective of whatever they've done before and irrespective of who they did it with. (And let's not forget that R is about much more than sex.)

R is a process of building an M. Aps have no place in the M.

Welcome, MrsW. Your H is respected and liked here, and it looks like you will be, too.

T/J - I have a friend who D'ed her H because she wanted to do sexual things he didn't want to do. She tried to describe her 3somes. She'd always start with, 'Sisoon, I want to tell you how great it is to be fucked by 2 men...,' but then she'd bliss out and stop talking with a very sexy look on her face.

As for me, I'd be more interested in a 3some with 2 women, but I'm not sure I could handle 2 women simultaneously, and there's no way I'd want my W to have sex with anyone but me.

The 3some idea is a non-starter for me. - End T/J

[This message edited by sisoon at 6:59 AM, February 12th (Monday)]

Yes I posted my suggestion knowing it would be one of debate. I think it all boils down to personal views on the subject. Me personally, don’t view sex in an antiquated fashion, and so long as both partners are on board, honest, committed and comfortable, bringing in a third isn’t any form of betrayal. Of course, those with more religious or conservative views on the matter, may not agree, and I respect their position. I suggested it as a way to help heal our husbands sense of loss and i injustice, not as a way to punish you. Of course the question lies in whether it’s something he would want. But what I do know, is that if he did, it would certainly help him get over the feeling of unfairness, and expose him to what sexual Variety is like, which prior to your A, wouldn’t have been as issue for him. I can tell you it helped me enormously, but I am just one example.

I can tell you it helped me enormously, but I am just one example.

Did it repair your marriage? No...you're divorced. It's important to note that the majority of betrayed members vocal about allowing the BS sexual freedom/variety/domination - are divorced.

There is no justice after infidelity. There's no balancing of the scales. If you can work together to repair the damaged intimacy then the marriage can be saved. Healthy intimacy requires authenticity...intimacy can't exist while one partner remains in a punishment/justice mindset.

MrsWalloped,

I want to echo what others have said and thank you for being so honest in your posts. It really helps to provide a lot of insight into the mind of my WW. I think her FOO played a huge part in her behavior. But, unlike you, she never chose to address it and still believes nothing is wrong with her.

So I applaud you for having at least the courage to face your demons and work to be a safe partner for your H. I know every BS here wishes their WS had that same courage.

Walloped's story is inspirational and gave me hope for a while. Your posts are also just as helpful.

Good luck to you both.

[This message edited by squid at 10:45 AM, February 11th, 2018 (Sunday)]

As far as a threesome to help reconciliation is ridiculous. Once you open that can of worms, you never know what might come crawling out.

If reconciliation after infidelity requires all WW’s to lovingly help their partner masturbate (having sex with another is not masturbation) and experience variety, well I don’t think we’d have many reconciliations.

And, I really like to know how many WH’s would agree to lay in bed with their betrayed wife while they watch another man have sex with her. I think the number would be very low.

Mrs. W,

You are a wonder. Yes, you did a horrible thing to your husband and your family. I don’t know your whole story, but coming here and opening yourself up, to questions, doubters, accolades and criticisms is not for the faint of heart.

I have a love/hate relationship with this forum. But, so many are lost, hurting, desperate, and seeking help. Those are the ones I hope read your answers. And, see the authenticity in who you are now. There are a bunch here who pay it forward and there is much to respect about that.

You’re getting “walloped” a bit. That’s pain talking and doubting. Do not take it personal, unless you find something in it that helps you explore yourself even more.

Welcome and I truly hope you hang around.

Hi again, MrsWalloped... It's me yet again.

I'm sorry that I keep on asking you questions. I'm almost ashamed to admit, but I find it almost easier to ask if these questions to someone that I don't know rather than the person closest to me. How ironic, huh? It's almost like I feel a certain sense of guilt asking her things, because it means that I am still thinking of her "choices" rather than R.

A sticking point for me is that numerous times, I would ask my wife if she wanted to do lunch. I'm pretty fortunate that I have a job that I can work from home fairly often, and this has to be something that I would do. I will go have lunch with her on these days. During her A, I would ask her if she want to do lunch and she would consistently turn me down. I've come to find out that she was having lunch with him. I doubt that they were physical every single time, but still, she chose him over me. That hurts tremendously. Did you find yourself choosing to spend time with your AP instead of your husband? If so, how did you show your husband since that time how much more you value him now vs the AP?

Next question, and perhaps the harder of the two to answer. My wife and you have a lot of similarities from what I have read. Obviously, if you have walked in your shoes, but affirmation from her "perfect" mother has never happened. She is never as good as her mom, doesn't cook as well, ect. Now, this. Obviously, her sense of self-worth is totally in the toilet. She feels like this will always be hanging over her head no matter what. I personally hope this isn't how you feel, but if it was, how did you overcome these feelings? Also with the guilt. I've actually been looking online trying to find a book or something relating to healing for the WS. Obviously, there's a lot that has to be worked through, and IC can help. On the book front, I have found nothing. Have you found inspiration in books to help you deal with these emotions geared towards a WS?

Thanks again for being brave enough to speak up. I don't think you understand how much you and your husband are helping people. Your "trials by fire" lessons can save so many. I'm sorry that you two went through this, but knowing that there's hope through this all, it gives everyone hope.

T/J

NNM,

Not having threesomes is not antiquated, nor only due to religious or conservative beliefs.

And, making a threesome a requirement of a reconciliation does not equal an on-board, honest, committed and comfortable spouse.

Seems quite the opposite, actually.

nicenomore, you have a pm

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:11 PM, February 11th (Sunday)]

I’m not sure at what point my comments became construed to mean Ms walloped being forced to do anything. I simply addressed the fact that her H has her and a one and only, and has to deal with the pain and humiliation every day that his wife does not. He spends his days wondering what he did wrong, and also how it would feel to not be where he is right now. All my suggestion was to suggest that of mrs walloped is comfortable enough, to offer him an experience he would like, and bring him some sense of closure to the one and only feelings. Not under the guise of force, or infidelity, but rather openess and exploration. That’s not necessarily cheating, and it was only a suggestion to consider. She is free to disregard. Why it’s so offensive to others is confusing to me, but I respect others opinions as well. The pinpoint to remember is that innperpetuity, her H will think of the imbalance for the rest of his natural life... if saving the marriage 20 years down the road comes from assuaging his feeling of injustice now that he doesn’t even know about yet, Inman not sure my suggestion is so off base. And for the record, I’d recommend the same thing to WH. But as a man, I don’t presume to speak on the behalf of the opposite gender, only on the gender i am, what I know.

Some. BH hold the grudge for years, and pull the plug years out. You have shown that you are so worthy of being given a second chance, i offered my advice as a way to help solidify that chance, not hurt. But I respect others opinions as well.