SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi goingsolo1,

do you trigger? And have there been occasions when you triggered while being intimate with your husband? If yes then how have you handled it as an individual and as a couple?

Of course I do! And there have been many times I’ve triggered when we’ve been intimate. Same with him. We didn’t go through hysterical bonding, so the first time we had sex after DDay was about seven months later. It was super emotional and didn’t go very well. I’ve cried in the middle, I’ve asked him to stop, he’s had to stop, he’s pushed me off him, I’ve stopped moving but just hugged him and cried in his chest. Sometimes we talk it through, sometimes we go back to what we were doing and sometimes we don’t. We talk a lot about it beforehand (not so much anymore, it’s a lot better than earlier). He was worried how I’d react if he triggered and I felt the same way. My emotions are all over the place when we have sex. I’m so happy he wants me and that he wants to be close to me, I want to do this for him, I want to make him happy, I want to take away his pain, I want him to forget for just a little bit so he could be at peace, I’m scared of losing him, it feels good, I feel horrible about my affair, I wonder if he’s thinking about me and my AP. I know I sound like a mess! Sex is more than just a release for me I guess. And because of that I trigger sometimes. My therapist said that I should just enjoy it and stop thinking so much. Have fun sex too, not just emotional sex. And we do. I’ve actually gotten a lot better at just being present with him when we have sex and being close with him. Being intimate with him and all that entails. Sorry. Long answer. Basically we communicate. Before, during and after sex. We know one of us might trigger and we understand that we may have to stop. We are understanding of each other. That’s how we handle it.

Hi Sanibelredfish,

Also, have you talked about acceptance in the broader context of both him and you? Obviously, I believe he’s accepted you had an A, but can he accept that he’d stay with a partner that had an A? I believe that this is where his high standards for himself and others may be problematic for R. What work is he doing to get to his truth on that question?

Yes, we have. We talk about it a lot. I think your question is what he’s struggling the most with now. He’s a man of integrity. His father was like that too. And because of that he’s very conflicted. Integrity to him means doing what’s right no matter what and not because people will applaud him for it, but because it’s the right thing to do (yes, I need to learn from him). So what’s the “right” thing now? Stay with me and keep his family intact? Be the “better man” and forgive? Or be true to himself and his internal value system? But if he does that and leaves his wife and children then what kind of man is he? He’s not the type to put his own happiness first. He’s the self-sacrificing type. But the other side is what does he think it says about him if he stays? He also connects Acceptance with Condoning and Forgiving. It’s hard to talk to him about this from my perspective because I want him to stay. I don’t want him to leave me and our children. I want him. I want us. But I tell him they’re not connected.

I don’t want to speak for him more than I have. I don’t want him to hate himself if he stays but I don’t want him to hate himself if he leaves either. All I can do is show him that despite what I did he can have a good and happy life with me and our family. But it’s up to him to choose it. I know it’s not fair but this is going to be his choice to make. Please reach out to him to ask him what he’s doing to work through this.

Hi BlueIris,

Some of your answers here were surely painful to admit to W, and even more painful for him to hear. What I want to know is, when he asked something - for the first time, or a repeat/variation of a previously asked question, and it's one of those especially painful truths, how did/do you answer him? Matter-of-factly? Do you hold him? Apologize? How does one show empathy while delivering something you know will cut so deeply?

It’s a good question. I can only tell you what I did. There were two periods for us, the weeks immediately after DDay and then when he moved back after he left for a short period of time. The first time he asked me questions was during a weekend. My answers were very matter of fact with lots of apologies. Lots of crying on my part and some on his. We took lots of breaks. But he didn’t want me anywhere near him. This was when he was trying to get at all the information he could. He was very forceful. Told me I had one chance to be honest and that I shouldn’t worry about if what I said hurt him cause he was already in so much pain. So I did. He asked and I answered.

After we separated for a bit and he came back he’d ask me things over and over again. The way I’d answer was very different. I’d try and hold his hands or hug him. I told him how sorry I was with every answer. But not just a generic I’m sorry. It was always in the context of his question. Here’s an example. He asked me about the places my AP and I would go so I told him once how we would browse at the street book vendor on Broadway in the Upper West Side and then go to an outdoor cafe nearby. I told him that I know he would have loved doing that with me and I’m so sorry I did that with my AP and not him. That it would have been wonderful if we spent the day together like that but now we can’t because I ruined that for him. That I was sorry I shared special moments with my AP that should have only been with him.

When the questions were about sex I’d ask him if he really wanted me to answer them and then I’d apologize for hurting him before I answered. I’d always tell him I love him so much and that I understood if he hated me and how much I wish I could undo everything I did. I did that over and over again. I never got frustrated when he’d ask me something that he asked many times before. I answered every single question like it was the first time he asked it. I never rushed him. Always dropped everything when he wanted to talk to me and always gave him my full attention. No cell phone buzzing or phone ringing took precedence. If I was cooking I lowered the flame. Honestly, I don’t know if I did the right thing or not. Maybe there’s a better way. But all I had to go on was my own thoughts and feelings. I really just wanted to take his pain away and I told him so. I wish it was as easy as kissing a boo-boo to make it go away but it’s not. Not at all.

It is often said here that a WS lacks empathy. What is your take on that? For someone who has been so deeply harmed by your own FOO, is it something you've had to work on? Or is it...I don't know, maybe part of the compartmentalization that seems to be part of the WS SOP?

Funny question for me given the response I got to another answer I gave. That’s okay.

I think it depends on the WS. I think some justify their behavior or excuse it. I think others get a wake up call in some way and fully grasp what they’ve done. I also think that those who truly love their BS, despite their actions indicating they don’t, will react with empathy more than those who have a list of grievances or have a tough marriage. I think I’m an empathetic person. When I volunteered I would see these little boys and girls in the cancer ward and it would tear me up inside. I’d imagine what their parents were going through, I’d imagine how I’d feel if they were my children, I’d marvel at the strength of these children and think what it must be like to know you were so sick and be in so much pain yet be so happy and genuine. What I had to work on was not whether I was empathetic or not, it was my motivation for doing the things I did. I truly cared about those children, but I also cared about me and felt good doing the work I did. Part of my reason for volunteering was to help them but part of it was to help me too.

In my limited experience as a WW I can say I had two things I had to focus on. Me and Walloped. And we were two different things. What I mean is this. He left me alone a lot after DDay. I don’t mean that in a negative way. I mean he was dealing with his issues and he didn’t want me smothering him or love bombing him. So, I worked on me. But I worked on me for him and me. I knew that I couldn’t be what he needed me to be unless I worked on me. Does that make sense? So my way of showing him that I felt his pain and wanted to help him heal was to become the person he deserved by working on myself. At the same time I’d try to take his pain away whenever I could in whatever way I could. For example I knew that one of his struggles was whether I still loved him and whether I desired him and maybe I was really planning on leaving him even though the polygraph showed I never intended to. But I knew that didn’t matter. He was still struggling with that. I wanted to take those fears away from him and to comfort him. He had trouble sleeping because of my affair. I wanted to help him. Before we started having sex again we still slept together. So at night I’d snuggle up to him, I’d kiss his neck, I’d hold him until he peeled my arms off of him, I’d thank him for not leaving me and for giving me one more night with him, I’d apologize and tell him I’m never leaving him. I’d tell him how much I love him and how grateful I was that he was in my life and how important he was to me.

I worked on empathetic dialogue and imagining how my husband felt and writing down all the fears and doubts and what he must be thinking, etc. so I could better understand his pain and what he was going through. But I didn’t work on empathy from a “I don’t have it” point of view. I’m not my mother. Far from it.

I am also wondering if you ever brought up things you remembered without being asked - either to correct a minimization or lie by omission, or even just something you'd remembered that hadn't been addressed before.

I have. Many times. One time it was a big lie. I had broken No Contact a second time and lied about it. It was during all those questions in that weekend I mentioned and Walloped asked me if I called my AP and I said no and that he called me and then I lied about the conversation I had with him. My husband was packing to leave me. He was moving into his brother’s house and I thought for sure he was leaving me for good and this was the separation before the divorce. So I told him I called my AP. I had just found out he was married and had other affairs and I was a wreck but even though I knew I shouldn’t have done it I did. I lied because I was terrified he’d leave me if I told the truth. But he was leaving me anyway. So I told him. I didn’t do a good job of it. Just kind of yelled it out and bawled like a baby and blubbered a lot of apologies. Of course he already knew and was just waiting to see if I was going to be honest or continue to lie.

There were a bunch of other times when I’d remember certain details about things we talked about and places we went and things we did. My husband was hungry for details. He hated hearing them but couldn’t stop himself wanting to know everything. So if I remembered something that I left out or wanted to add I’d tell him. Sometimes they were things like what we ate at a restaurant or the name of the restaurant or what I was wearing and other times it was that we held hands or kissed at a certain place and sometimes it was about sex. I didn’t lie or minimize the sex part. I was honest about positions and how many times, the things I did and let him do and how often I orgasmed. Things like that. But he wanted to know every detail so if we discussed a time when my AP and I had sex and I told him 20 details about it I might have forgotten the 21st. I wasn’t hiding details. But sometimes I remembered additional ones and so I’d tell him. That was hard. There’s no easy way to tell your husband, Honey, I just remembered that time I was telling you about? Well, this other man also pinched my behind and gave me a hickey under my left boob. It was terrible. I don’t know if giving him all those details was healthy for him. For a long time I thought it wasn’t but he said he needed to know and I wasn’t going to not give him what he said he needed from me. But it was very hard on him. I tried to be as close to him as possible to help him process what I was telling him but I know it still killed him inside.

Sorry I went on for so long. I hope my answers were helpful.

Sharkman,

You propose that he should be working on forgiveness. Many couples have successfully been reconciled without forgiveness. Why should he? You said yourself that you are not 100% sure you could never cheat again... should he forgive?

No, I didn’t. I said that he was working on Acceptance and Forgiveness. I never suggested he should. Here’s what I wrote:

He’s going through his own issues regarding Acceptance and Forgiveness of both me and himself. There’s only so much I can do to help him there and even then it may just not be enough.

To answer your other questions, I don’t think he should unless it helps him heal. He does not need to forgive me. I would love it if he did, but I haven’t gotten to a place where I have forgiven myself so why would I expect him to forgive me? If he ever gets to a point where he can forgive me I’d think that would be really something for him. It would mean he’s attained a certain level of peace and calm and that would be wonderful news because it would mean he’s getting healthier and more at ease and possibly happier. But in terms of should he forgive me or if I have any expectations of forgiveness, the answer is no. Not at all.

And I agree. I think you can reconcile without forgiveness.

This is a post for Iwantmyglasses because I can’t PM yet.

I wish I could give you a hug and wipe away all your tears and take away your pain. I’m so, so sorry.

Your post got to me so much. I’ve read it over and over again and I’m responding even though I probably shouldn’t cause I’m way too emotional to be rational or coherent. Sorry.

It killed my husband to hear the details. It tore him apart and ate at his soul. But he was obsessed about the details and he kept asking me saying he needed to know so I told him and I didn’t hold anything back because I wanted to be truthful and I wanted to help him and this is how he said he would be helped but I died every time I told him more because I knew I was killing him slowly. I cut him. Every little thing I told him was like I was stabbing him over and over again but he kept wanting to hear it. I couldn’t take it. I was losing my mind knowing I was hurting him so much by telling him details but I was too scared to not tell him. How could I not if that’s what he wanted but how could I when I saw what I was doing to him? You know, I wasn’t kidding about the hickey and my AP pinching my butt. I didn’t mean for it to come off as light hearted because it was the exact opposite. And there were many more of those kinds of things. It’s much more than sad. It’s sickening and horrific and it was debasing. Degrading. It was cheap and dirty and shameful. And I had to tell him about it over and over again because he’d ask or I remembered something and I promised I’d tell him if I did and each time I hated myself more and more. I couldn’t stomach what I did, I’d throw up, literally, and he would look like a trauma victim which he was and it was because I inflicted it on him. He was so bewildered. Confused like. I’d tell him something and he’d look at me like he didn’t know who I was. And I understood that. Because the person he thought I was would never do that to him. It was like I was a total stranger to him. And I’d still tell him. Because he wanted me to. I can’t describe the pain we were both in. I’d have to tell him these hurtful things like how another man fed me or that we had sex on a chair or that I cut his nails and every single one was as if I was literally hitting him over the head with a baseball bat and for me it was like a dagger piercing my heart because each time I told him something I knew I was killing him and I knew I lost him a bit more. I’d see the look of incredulity and I knew I destroyed him. You’re right. He is heartbroken. It’s a good way to say it. He grieves over what he lost and I grieve over what I threw away. I had something special, something wonderful, and I gave myself to another man because he made me feel good. I let him do things and I did things to him that nobody besides my husband had any business doing. And what boggles my mind is that even still my husband loves me. Sometimes he hates me too, I think, but all in all, he loves me and I don’t understand it. I don’t know why. And I die inside and hate myself knowing what I did. I tortured this special, special man who has such a capacity to love. Who is so giving and has such a generous heart. I don’t know why he hasn't left me. He certainly has every right to and no one would blame him for a second. I don’t know why. I have such a hard time seeing me as the person I was before this. I used to think I was a good person. I had major self esteem issues before but I had a family and a husband and I was a good wife and mother and now I’m the woman who, as you said, came home with another man’s hickeys. It’s horrid. I feel so dirty. So icky. One of these days I’ll start a new thread about how I look in the mirror and I can’t see me anymore. I see this woman who killed the man she loves and hurt her children. And then I realize that woman is me. What kind of mother hurts her children? What kind of monster must I be? When I was 6 months pregnant with my oldest daughter, one morning I woke up and the sheets were full of blood. Walloped was already at work and I panicked and called him in hysterics. He calmed me down and called 911 and then he had to race from Wall Street to the hospital in Long Island. I was in intensive care for a week and almost died. He told me later that on the way to the hospital he was praying to God to just let me live. Meanwhile I was praying to God to just let my baby live. I would have died happy if it meant she would survive and be born healthy. I was content knowing Walloped would be there to take care of her and I would watch over her from Heaven. And God answered both our prayers and we both survived. And how did I repay Him? By becoming the person who ruined their lives and wrecked our family and put my children in therapy. And as you said, for what? Who does that? What kind of person must I be? How selfish am I? Did I ever really love him or them? How could I if I was able to do this? You are 100% right. It is gutting. It’s debilitating. We made love tonight. It was so emotional. I cried so much and held him so tight. I don’t want to lose him. I know how much I hurt him and there’s nothing I can do to make that go away. When we make love I hope he forgets a little bit. I hope he remembers me as I was and not as I am now. I hope he remembers when he was happy and loved our life together. He’s sleeping so soundly now. So peaceful. I wish he was at peace all the time. I don’t want him to hurt anymore. I have those pretend nights too. I pretend I never did what I did. I pretend he’s still my one and only and that his touch is the only one I know. I pretend he still loves me and respects me. I pretend my children still think of me as their mother and not as the woman who betrayed their father. I’m probably going to get responses to this post about how I said “I” too many times or how I’m throwing a pity party or I’m showing myself as a victim. I don’t care. As I said I probably shouldn’t have written this and not at 3:00 in the morning, but I saw your post and started crying and I couldn’t stop. So I’m typing and crying. I can’t believe it because I’ve cried so much these past few days I’m amazed I have any tears left. I’m still crying. I’m crying for my husband. I’m crying for the pain I caused. I’m crying for you and your husband. I know it doesn’t help anybody but I can’t help it. You are in R yet you are in pain. I’m so sorry. Your husband is in pain too. Both of you are in pain that he caused by what he did with that woman and I wish I had a way to ease your pain. I’m sorry that I don’t. But if it helps just a little bit, please know that there is a stranger out there who is thinking of you and is wishing you peace and serenity and happiness and love.