SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I probably shouldn’t be posting. I’m not in a very good place. But here I am. I don’t know why. I think maybe it relaxes my brain and lets me focus. At least when I don’t have an emotional reaction. Anyway.

Hi xhz700,

As a wayward, is there ever a difference between remorse/regret for your actions, and just simply covering your own ass?

Of course there is. By definition wouldn’t covering one’s own ass indicate a lack of remorse? And visa versa? I don’t know your story but are you perhaps thinking about your situation or many others here that you might have read and are painting all WS’s with the same brush? I don’t think your description really applies to me.

To me, you have an affair because that's the best way to maximize your life enjoyment. You lie, because that's the best way to maximize your life enjoyment. You say all the right words, because that's the way to maximize your life enjoyment.

I don’t know you, but that seems to be a very sad way to look at the world. I’ve never thought of things in that way.

So why in the world would you ever challenge that? Why would you ever take the chance to destabilize the life of your children? Why would you choose to damage the man that's raising your children?

Those are great questions. I’ve been working on them for two and a half years now.

Most of what I see now in this forum, I just assume is from people who have gone to 50 websites looking for a way to save their asses. They are well versed in exactly the right things to say about their affair.

What a cynical point of view. I guess if the WS doesn’t care at all about their spouse then yes. Maybe. But have you ever spoken to a WS who hates what they did and is truly remorseful? Really spoken to them? Have you seen the pain they go through knowing the destruction in their lives and of their loved ones is their own doing? And you think that person has the wherewithal to go on websites looking to save their ass? It’s a Herculean effort just to get the kids to school and put on a happy face and clean and cook and do laundry and homework and function like a human being without spending the day curled in a fetal position on the floor.

Affairs may not be unique, but people are. I wouldn’t assume anything about someone’s situation.

Why do we put more weight into the words of someone trying desperately to save their quality of life over words that they used with their AP?

Who said you should? Words are cheap. I’d ask how the people you’re referring to act? What do they do? What have they learned? How have they grown? But if your viewpoint is that all WS’s are just liars who are trying to save their own skin with pretty words and fake actions then nothing I say will change your mind.

Hi Foley05,

your AP's pursuit appeared to be pretty much the standard seduction routine and seemed like it should have been fairly obvious to you what was going on. Do you have any insight into why you didn't figure him out until after D-day?

It wasn’t obvious to me. Obviously.

I’ve been hit on many times in my life. It was easy to knock them down and ignore it. This wasn’t what you call standard. He didn’t show up one day with a Hey baby, line. We knew each other from around the office for just under a year before we were involved in any way. We were like coworkers who passed each other in the hall. He didn’t hit on me. I even suggested setting him up once with one of the secretaries. I never considered him as a sexual person or as a possible romantic relationship. It never entered my mind. So no. I didn’t see it coming. Not at all.

Also, when you're out working or otherwise interacting with men now, do you find it easier to recognize when they're hitting on you?

Well, it’s a bit different now because of the things I do and the way I am since DDay. I’m much more introverted and closed off than I was before. I don’t do anything socially with men if my husband is not there. I don’t talk about my personal life at all and I keep office interactions professional (I work part time now). So I’ve actually not received the same attention like I did before, which is a good thing, and I’m developing the frigid bitch reputation at work. I’m fine with that.

Hi LostToOM,

How do you know he didn't have real feelings for you? Or do you?

I don’t know if he did or not. I thought he did during the affair. Whether he really did or didn’t, honestly I don’t care one way or the other.

When W called OM's wife and put you on the phone, did it ever occur to you that could have been a set up?

No. It never did. I don’t really think in that way. I guess my husband has talked about that phone call. But if you the state I was in then you’d know my brain wasn’t operating like that. It couldn’t. To you it’s a thing that happened to someone else. To me it was my life and I went through it. I was such a mess back then I wasn’t thinking at all. I just remember crying and screaming I’m sorry. That’s all I was capable of doing. So no.

Not that I think W would do that, but it could have been anybody on the other end of the call. It wasn't really proof that he was still married.

True. But when I got deposed by his wife’s attorney when she divorced him that was proof enough.

I always wondered if that was why you broke NC at your sister's - to verify that. If not, do you feel you got some kind of closure from that call?

I was an emotional wreck then and I couldn’t believe it. And she yelled at me and called me a whore and I nearly had a breakdown. I didn’t call for him. I called for me. I couldn’t process that I ruined so many lives over a lie. No, there was no closure even if I was looking for it, which I wasn’t, although I don’t think I ever would have gotten any. He just started yelling at me about my husband and I yelled at him back and that was it.

Hi HardyRose,

I wrote a very long response last night but didn’t post it. It was defensive and dismissive. I saved it though so I could refer to it to understand my reaction and how I naturally responded and think about whether I do that in other areas too. So thank for the homework.

Anyway this morning I read your post again and wanted to respond.

You seem to present yourself as being the perfect post DDay spouse...

I don’t mean to. Really. I’m not trying to present myself as anything and I wasn’t aware it came across that way. Because I’m not. Far from it. I broke NC twice and lied about it, I was an emotional mess and was not emotionally there for him after DDay. For months after DDay we stayed away from each other than family related things and all I’d do is cry and go to IC twice a week. We’re married with kids and life has its own issues and it’s hard enough to deal with them without my affair adding pain and confusion and a damaged relationship to the mix. I’m not perfect. I get upset, I yell, I get emotional, I become distant. I get snippy, I’ve yelled at him to just divorce me and leave already, I’ve given up so many times and told him I’m not strong enough to do this anymore. I am far, far from perfect.

I think I understand why you’re saying what you said, but this is weird for me. I’m not telling a new story. I thought I would be when I joined here and I submitted my first post about my FOO issues but it seems everyone knows my story already and they just started asking detail after detail about what I did on a specific day or how I reacted when I got a certain phone call or what happened when he said this or I said that. And I’m just responding and saying what I did or felt at that time. I didn’t mean to come here and say that I’m doing everything wonderfully and I’m following the guidebook on how to be a perfect spouse and aren’t I just great? Not at all. I do give examples of what I do, partly because I’m asked what I do so I’m answering questions, and partly because it’s what I’m actually,doing. I don’t know if it’s right or not. I don’t have anyone telling me it is or isn’t. Sometimes I’ll do something or say something and he’ll appreciate what I’ve done and other times he won’t. I feel my way through. The idea of being a perfect spouse after DDay...I don’t even know what that’s supposed to look like. But I honestly don’t have an agenda. I get good feelings from external validation but this forum is probably the lowest form of that. And I’m not trying to show my husband anything by saying things here. He knows how I feel, what I do, and what my issues are.

All I know is that I did something I’ll regret for the rest of my life. It was by far the worst thing I could ever do to someone. It took me a long time to become emotionally healthy and stable so I could figure myself out and do whatever I could for my husband to help him heal from what I did to him. And right or wrong or perfect or a disaster I just did it. That’s all. Nothing else.

God, even all this sounds defensive. I’m sorry. I’m just trying to explain, not defend.

You give example after example of how you show him that you love him and are helping him heal.

I guess I’m glad at least someone thinks I’m doing something right.

(It was a joke!)

Statements like the one above put the responsibility and the blame of a failed R on Walloped.

I don’t see you accepting the blame for the demise of your family if your affair is a deal breaker for Walloped.

Please don’t make him in any way feel responsible if he needs a divorce to heal from your affair.

My husband and I have talked a lot about divorce. It’s a subject that has come up pretty often. Maybe I come across the way you say because I’ve really been answering questions, and maybe it’s partly a defense mechanism, but if you’re interested I can tell you how I feel and what we’ve talked about. If we divorce, I'm to blame, the responsibility is ours, and the choice is his.

If we don’t R, the blame is mine. No one else’s. I absolutely acknowledge and accept the blame. Blaming myself, rightly, became my favorite hobby for a long period of time and I’ve spent hours and hours learning how to reframe my thinking so I stop self-loathing because I know it’s all my fault. No matter how I felt before or during my affair, I know he did nothing to cause what I did. Regarding responsibility, we are married. We have children. As I said I would be the cause of a divorce plain and simple. The one to blame. Yet we both bear the responsibility of that outcome, because we are responsible for each other and our children. Of course it was my affair that would be the catalyst, and if we do get divorced it would be because I didn’t do enough for him to help him heal from what I did or he just wasn’t able to stay. Or both. That’s not faulting him for that and I wouldn’t blame him at all, but you better believe he feels a responsibility for such a decision. And he should. He’s my husband and the father of his children. For better or for worse we are still a family. Any action that affects all of us is our joint responsibility. I don’t mean to preach or rant. If we stay married that will come with a whole set of issues and by choosing that option he’d be accepting the responsibility to deal with those issues in the best way possible. And if we divorce, the same thing applies. Just because I’m the one to blame and I’d be the one to cause it does not mean he throws his hands up and says it’s not his problem. Visitation, living apart, him possibly seeing someone new, finances, how could he not feel responsible for such a decision? That doesn’t mean it’s not the right one but if you knew him at all you’d know he feels a responsibility for it. Sorry. I went on too long. Okay, choice. The choice is his. I guess you can argue that I chose to divorce him by having an affair, and I understand that point of view. So I’ve worked to show him I’m choosing differently despite what I did. But he gets to choose too. No matter what I do, ultimately he has the right to say he’s done with me. And I accept that it’s his choice and he’d be making it because of what I did. But that choice is his power. I don’t mean power over me, I mean power to make that choice. Freedom. He did not get a choice in my having an affair. He does get a choice and the one that matters most about whether my actions end in R or divorce.

I hope that makes a little bit of sense at least. These are serious issues and we talk very civilly (most of the time) about them and that’s how we look at it.

When I first came here, reading, posting, getting hit over the head with everything was mentally exhausting, on top of the grief and despair I was feeling at home.

While it was therapeutic at times and I learned so much, I also found myself re-living so much, and self loathing. I would wake up and come to these pages and go down the rabbit hole, believe the words that people type on the screen about me. I found I had to defend myself to strangers. It would affect my mood, my self worth and my mind would be brought back to relive my betrayal.

Thank you pinkpggy and Jorge. This is so much what happened this past week. I was obsessed and replayed everything said here.

I think it’s good for me to relive what I did and listen to what people say. I need to learn how to do that and not let it affect me so deeply that it becomes harmful instead of helpful.

Hi SorrowfulMoon,

You mentioned breaking NC twice. My only recollection was that you did this once at your sister's. Could you kindly enlighten me on the other time as it helps clarify your state of mind at the time.

It’s actually three times in my head. Once was a whole bunch of phone calls from my AP right after DDay. All short except for one long-ish conversation. I don’t think we talked about NC yet but this was the man I betrayed my husband with and I should have known that me speaking to him would be just twisting the knife in his back. Walloped doesn’t count this, but I do. The second is not technically breaking NC because I didn’t call him. But not because I didn’t try. My sister stopped me. But I wanted to. And it’s the thought that counts. So that’s my second. The third is when I did call.

What do you do for fun? Imagine just for today that you were truly free to do whatever you wanted. What would that be?

Those are two different questions.

I don’t do much for fun anymore. There are things I enjoy, but that’s not the same as fun. But a big thing for me has always been art. I draw and sketch. I do people, and fashion. I have a portfolio I’ve built up over the years. I’m good, very good really, but I’m not as good as I could have been because I don’t have any formal training. When I was younger I was accepted to Parsons but my parents couldn’t afford it and they didn’t understand about going to a school for art or design. So I never went. Anyway my fun used to be going to museums and sketching. Mostly at the Met. It was actually more than fun. It was like a zen thing for me. It made me feel whole. I don’t go to museums anymore. That would no longer be fun for me. And while he’s never said I shouldn’t, I know it would be painful for my husband if I did. And painful for me too. Another thing I ruined.

The closest thing to having fun that I do now is take my girls shopping.

If I had a day to myself? Is my husband available to spend the day with me? If he’s available then it would be to spend the day together and I know it sounds so contrived even if it’s the truth. Okay, let’s say he’s out of town. No kids or cleaning or dinner? He took them with him? Fine. Sleep late, then make myself a big breakfast (toasted bagel with butter and an omelette with tomato, peppers, and onions, and coffee) and read a fun book (I’m reading my daughter’s Throne of Glass books). Then I’d get dressed and go take a ballroom dancing class. I love ballroom dancing! Go to the gym and workout and then come home and take a looooong hot bubble bath. Then get dressed and call either my girls or one or two friends and we’d go to MAC for a makeup appointment (can I assume I already made one for the day I’m doing this?) and then go shopping for a bit. Then we’d all go out for dinner and maybe a really cheesy movie.

Sorry this was so long. But you asked.