SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

He wasn’t in the middle of a divorce. He was married, but separated and he and his wife were going to marriage counseling together to work on their marriage. Why was I angry? I thought he loved me. I thought I was special. And I found out in a very emotional and shocking way (from his wife on the phone when my husband called her) that he was married, had lied to me, was working on his marriage, had multiple affairs, that I was just another slut to him, and that I ruined my life for him. I was angry at him and felt sorry for myself and scared of my husband.

What actions are you referring to that “strongly suggest” I was planning on leaving my husband? The first time I broke NC I called my AP to tell him my husband found out about us and that it was over. He thought it was a good thing that my husband knew so we could live together from now on. I thought he was crazy! I had no intention of leaving my husband or my children and told him that. By the way, my husband asked me to take a polygraph test which I did. One of the questions was about whether I ever had intention of leaving him. I answered no and I passed. I wasn’t lying.

This is what you need to address. Compartmentalized cheaters very rarely "plan". But what happens is exactly what happened - first friendship, then EA then PA. It's a pattern of escalation. You may have not acutely planned on leaving your husband, but the pattern was that that is where it was headed.

My observation from reading these posts is that this has not been properly addressed. If I were your husband this would sure as hell keep me from healing. I can either sit here and give you virtual hugs or challenge the fact that recovery stalled and almost ended up in divorce three years in.

Look at it this way, you've both probably gone though 100k in counseling and hundreds of hours of discussion. You've ostensibly done everything right. If you've done everything right and the problems still exist then in my experience the answer is that you were not trying to solve the right problem.

Sharkman, I have a question for you if you don’t mind (I’ve answered every one of yours so I’d appreciate the same courtesy). Can you point to one WW that you consider remorseful and that her husband shouldn’t divorce her? I’m specifically asking about women, not men. And Deeply Scared (God rest her soul) doesn’t count. Too easy. Thanks!

My most recent favorite is Lonely Husband 42301's wife on the (no soliciting). It's an amazing recovery story. Nononsense was a former poster here who I used to follow closely before joining. He's probably the local example of whose wife did it right. If you want to a see a converse of someone who made up his mind definitively and did things "the right way", ohforanewme is one guy who I've referred to to many, many people.

You could be one of them, I'm not positive of it yet, though. Like I said, you're three years into a recovery and have a husband who still isn't onboard, so I'm not sure what the problem is. It's intellectually interesting to me given we now have so much data to work with on both sides, a rare insight that we get here.

With that said, with infidelity (the second worst form of spousal abuse known to man) it's also our obligation as advisers to see the betrayed to safety. That is the paramount action that drives my involvement here. It's really a quite wonderful opportunity - we all have the power to quite literally help thousands upon thousands of men and women currently being abused by their spouses. It's a very powerful and incredible use of this new medium.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:56 PM, February 12th (Monday)]

Hi MrsWalloped,

From one WS to another, thank you for posting and for being so open and honest, and willing to address questions. I've been on SI for about 15 months now, and in that time, I've found that SI is a wonderful tool, not only for support, but to have people ask questions that I never would have thought to ask myself, or that I did ask myself but sometimes it helps to defend/explain your thoughts and feelings so that you know "why" you think that way, and know it's not some passing, unsubstantiated thought.

You and I have a lot in common in terms of digging for our "why's", our extreme FOO situations, and the ways in which we thought during the A. For example, this quote from you:

That I’d be a better wife and mother as a result because my being positive was sure to rub of on everybody in my real life.

I was just trying to explain this exact thinking (almost the exact wording) process to my wife the other night. Once the affair is over and we pull head's out of our butts, this seems as crazy to us as it does to everyone else, the hard part is trying to put it in context for someone who hasn't been there. It is not as if I didn't know what I was doing at the time was wrong, it was just that my view of the world at the time was so very skewed, so dependent on needing someone else to fill that emptiness inside of me that I couldn't fill myself, that my mind made up justifications for everything. "If only I was happier, everyone else would be happier too. I'd stop being so miserable and be happy, and then everyone and everything would be happy." Ugh, I have such nightmares about the thoughts I had during that time.

In any event, I just want to welcome you to SI. I hope you find some support and like-minded people here. Keep reading Brene Brown (She's amazing, isn't she?) and working on your FOO.

(((hugs)))

Wow. I haven’t made it all the way through all the pages here, but I just wanted to say that I can relate to so much of what you have written. Unfortunately, I don’t seem to have the ability to put onto “paper” my thoughts and feelings as effectively as you. At least, they have not been received the same way. I hope my BH has read this and can recognize me and my feelings in some of the things you have written. Granted, I have said so many of the same things out loud to him and in texts....I hope and pray that you and your BH can rebuild and repair your relationship and one day be happy. Best wishes to you and your family.

Dear MrsWalloped,

Thank you very much for taking the time to offer an answer to my questions. You are probably right, i guess there will never be an answer that I will understand.

I just cant see how accepting fake compliments lead to ruining lives that have been spent together for decades.

Why wasn't it important enough to stop you?

Anyway, your story matches what my WW has told me in regards to the compliments. "went to her head" next thing you know she spreading her legs. I just dont get it. Never will.

Since you answered my questions so graciously, I would like to offer to answer any questions that you may have from a BH. As you can read my sig, long term M and children involved.

Thanks again

Hi MrsW, I am a BW who had my DDay just after yours, so Walloped’s posts are very much a part of my journey. I appreciate the time he took to write because I didn’t have the time or eloquence so it was so helpful to me to follow someone else’s path. Like you, my marriage was good before DDay and my WH immediately did a lot right. Thank you for coming and answering questions. My WH used to post more, and I think he was helpful to BS and WS.

I also wanted to say that as someone who is almost exactly as far out from DDay, I think that you are on the right track. I saw one poster suggest that Walloped was “behind” in his healing. I don’t know, but I don’t think you’re behind. I still (always?) struggle with the injustice. I mourn my old marriage. Having a good marriage before DDay makes it harder and easier to accept. I am a strong person, but strength to forgive and accept is different and hard. I know I have the strength to leave but I’m digging deeper than I ever wanted or thought I could. I’ve always had great respect for people who could forgive the unforgivable or accept the unacceptable. They are literally saints, but I’m just me. I don’t know if I have the strength but it is a daily struggle although some days are easier, almost “normal”. I suspect I will always need to summon strength to stay, and I don’t know if that means it’s a dealbreaker. I wish you both well.

Mrs. W., your endurance for answering questions is notable, but I’m glad to see you taking a break too.

One thing I’ve noticed is a bit of a negative vibe in your replies (including your most recent) that deal primarily with how W is currently processing the A. Is this based on letting go of the outcome or is it something else? Perhaps I am off on the negativity, but I thought I’d mention it.

Also, have you talked about acceptance in the broader context of both him and you? Obviously, I believe he’s accepted you had an A, but can he accept that he’d stay with a partner that had an A? I believe that this is where his high standards for himself and others may be problematic for R. What work is he doing to get to his truth on that question?

I’m curious about the statement that wallop is behind in his healing. What does “behind” look like? It’s commonly stated that healing takes 2-5years. By what yard stick is this being measured?

Is there progress MrsW? Is walloped better than year one and two? I think as long as there is overarching progress over time - then youre right on course. I thought I was finally as healed as I could be in year 4. And here I am in year 5 - even better than I ever dreamed possible. But right up until the 4 year mark, I would have dark days where I thought of divorcing. Sometimes the pain feels never ending...and then a good day, conversation, a productive event happens and all things seem possible again.

Going back to my comment about life being unfair...horrible things happen to us in life - but we go on...we cant undo it so we learn to find a way to live with it. We find a way to weave the event into the fabric of our timeline and attempt to do better and be better.

MrsW - i would suggest you choose which questions you choose to answer more selectively. If the question is constructive and a true attempt at understanding then answer it if you wish. The others? Ignore. Thats the beauty of this site. You take what you need and leave the rest.

I tip my hat to you, figuratively speaking, MrsW, for patiently replying and answering so many questions. I do remember reading your husband's JFO thread, although I'm not sure I ever read all of it (and I'm not going back to look, lol). But everything I have read leads me to believe that he's a heckuva guy, and that means you must be one very special lady. I'm glad you're here to share your story and some of the things you've learned about your whys, and things you've done for W in an effort to help heal and reconcile.

I wasn't going to comment and add to the load of questions on your thread, but I do have a question (or two...ish?) to ask, mostly because I think it's been one of our (my WH's and my) more recent challenges and I am wondering how another remorseful and fully committed WS might handle the scenario.

Some of your answers here were surely painful to admit to W, and even more painful for him to hear. What I want to know is, when he asked something - for the first time, or a repeat/variation of a previously asked question, and it's one of those especially painful truths, how did/do you answer him? Matter-of-factly? Do you hold him? Apologize? How does one show empathy while delivering something you know will cut so deeply?

It is often said here that a WS lacks empathy. What is your take on that? For someone who has been so deeply harmed by your own FOO, is it something you've had to work on? Or is it...I don't know, maybe part of the compartmentalization that seems to be part of the WS SOP?

You can probably read between the lines, so I hope it's okay that I've asked. I am also wondering if you ever brought up things you remembered without being asked - either to correct a minimization or lie by omission, or even just something you'd remembered that hadn't been addressed before.

I know you feel somewhat ambivalent about the positive strokes people are giving you, but I hope you know how much your forthrightness will help others now and whenever this thread comes up.

I'm so sorry for the losses and the hurts you've experienced, both when you were a child and again as a parent. I know all too well that once there you've mentally added your expected baby (babies) into your heart and future, losing them so soon is an ache all its own. (((MrsW)))

I hope you will continue to come here and share your hard-won wisdom, although I know some days it is so hard to bear witness to all of the pain here. I have found, though, that sometimes, even amongst all of the hurts we share here, that we do begin to smile and laugh and grow and feel and eventually, heal. To you and to the many veteran fWSs who come here to learn, and to counsel, guide, and advise, I say thank you. Welcome to SI, MrsW.

MrsWalloped,

Let me start by commending you on being able to share so candidly, I understand how much shame must be overcome in order to share these dark details.

I have yet to be able to share this way with my BS in person or on SI and I know this inability is a driving force in preventing our R.

The powerful response by so many SI members as well as my BS personal thoughts on your words have given me a sense of confidence to dig deeper into the work needed to give my BS peace and safety in our "future marriage." I thank you for this.

Now if you had asked me before then if I’d ever consider cheating my answer would be just a no way, but a hell no! I used to look down on cheaters. I couldn’t understand them. To be one myself? That’s a whole other part of my therapy.

Your comments above are so familiar...they could have been written by me. I too was a strong..("stand on a soap box") advocate for loyalty and I despised cheaters. This might be part of the struggle for me to own my shit..because I can't handle seeing myself as what I classified for years as a "scumbag."

I see the level of LOVE my BS continues to show me despite who I have shown her I am and feel so much associated shame that I can not foresee her ever viewing me as anything other than this Scumbag. I am in the pool of people that I wouldn't give a minutes attention to understand previously and now my wife and our life depends on that intelligence! WTF?!! Our therapists will retire off off this stupidity!

it wasn’t a need for external validation from other men, it was a need for validation from anyone and everyone. My husband, my children, my friends, strangers. My AP was just there and the type to see me for what I was (easy prey to him) and I figured out quickly how to get more of it from him.

Like you Validation was valued by me from anyone who would give it....I could ride for days on one positive comment or compliment from a friend or coworker. Especially if that someone was a person I held in high regard...a boss or someone I respected or admired as a person or performer. I could go back into my "movie clip mind" and replay that praise over and over...Ironically my ability to do this now with details of the A does not come so easy. Like your AP, mine was a opportunist, she was sitting in the front row of my work life and preyed on an easy target. I too learned how to leverage this attention to my so called advantage. What a joke...

I have a ton of work to do and really appreciate your contribution as it gives me hope that I can do this successfully and help my wife and our family heal from the damage that I have caused.

Your IC is correct for many this infidelity is a deal breaker. this abuse should be for many.

It sounds like it is for you.

I was hurt by my wife, but I was hurt even more when it happened to my son. think about someone doing this to your son.

I do not think letting walloped watch his choice of tv shows will help with the real problems of forgetting him and having sex so many times with the OM.

You talked about your boys. Just imagine someone doing this to one of your sons. that makes it real. I thought I was upset before, but doing this to my son sent me thru the roof.

She told him about a work party. No he did not catch her in the act, but he went to the work party. She and her coworker were the only 2 at the work party. she was sitting on his lap in a public place with little kids around making out in public.

what really hurts a man is the betrayal, the lies, the sex, chosing someone else over and over again, because you want to have sex with them and not your H. Yes the affair sex was good.

She denied just like my wife did over and over.

he was left with debts, but I helped him pay them off.

He is now in his 30s, and does not trust women.

just like some women do not trust men. Yes he did get hurt playing football on the line in high school. He is a big guy.

He has spent years wallowing in dispair. I am not an attorney, but I filled out the paperwork for him to get a D and away from his source of pain. His football coach said he was the nicest guy. He would knock somebody over and check on them after the play was over.

but her cheating gave him so much more pain than the pain when he broke his foot. It has ruined his life. He is drifting aimlessly.

I do not wish this kind of pain on your son or anyone's son or daughter, not even Grandma Wallop's son.

Hope your family has better days ahead.

Mrs. W -just want to add that that I don’t advocate you being put out on the street s homeless... married with kids for years is a lot different than newly married young and not well off yet (my situation). I only meant that if you did divorce, you would give your H favorable terms (not take more than you need, in light of the failed M being your fault), that wouldn’t financially cause hardship for him for years to come.

Sorry if it came of as saying you deserve nothin at all, it was meant to mean favorable to him out of kindness from you

I strongly disagree. I could do anything and everything and push him to have sex with the entire Cirque du Soleil acrobat team and cater to his every whim, cook his favorite meal, dress only in sexy lingerie, give him a BJ after breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and he could still choose to divorce me. I’ve seen it said here, and his and my therapist each told us, sometimes an affair is simply a deal breaker. I don’t think the fact that he’s still struggling means I’m not addressing the right problems. It might be like you said, but it’s not a certainty as you make it out to be. He’s going through his own issues regarding Accpetance and Forgiveness of both me and himself. There’s only so much I can do to help him there and even then it may just not be enough.

Well I'm certainly not going to try to trump what the therapist says and do think it's really good that you guys are both receiving therapy.

You seem to be very sure that you are addressing the right problems. I'm going to disagree with you there as well (just trying to help). You propose that he should be working on forgiveness. Many couples have successfully been reconciled without forgiveness. Why should he? You said yourself that you are not 100% sure you could never cheat again... should he forgive? Some people can, some people can't. He may be the type that can't forgive, which at that point the goalpost has been moved.

Let's take that logically a step further. If he can't forgive then where does that lead you? You're working on the establishment of a new relationship where one person knows the other person but the other is flying blind. It's a very large difference than working the forgiveness route which assumes two in sync partners.

I'm babbling. If your husband fell out of love with you the instant that he discovered that he was the victim of infidelity then how do you create the groundwork from forgiveness? Is he out there flapping in the wind trying to fit a bunch of circle pegs into square holes?

He may not be, you are probably right, but (with all due respect) I think that it is negligent to his needs to not as a full universe of questions. Three years after infidelity seems like a rather significant milestone where one can stop and ask these questions.

(I do hope you're taking these questions with the good spirit that they are intended)

I think it was good that you didn't just ignore the questions, and yes a "few" turned into many, which tends to be a habit of mine.

The intention of the questions I asked was not to have you detail what you've done in your two years of therapy, it was more to get a better sense of your situation, where your mindset is currently at, and to encourage you to reflect more deeply on the things you've brought up in your posts.

I have some observations from your responses that I'd like to share and I hope you will take constructively rather than defensively.

When asked about the impacts on Walloped and your children your responses did not convey a true understanding of how your actions and behaviours affect them at a deep, emotional level, and more than once you talked more about the impact on yourself than on them. This is reflective of a lack of true empathy.

Can I just say that I know I did a horrible thing and hurt him terribly, but he wasn’t a saint after DDay. I don’t blame him at all for anything he said or did because I deserved it and he was in such pain, but he was so angry and he’d say things and call me a whore and tell me I’d end up alone with no self respect and my children wouldn’t love me. That I threw away everything that mattered in life. And he didn’t touch me sexually for months after DDay. He didn’t want me to touch him either. No hysterical bonding for us. I know he was in pain. I know how much I hurt him. But for someone like me, his actions after DDay just exacerbated those feelings I already had. I had nothing but my thoughts and his pain and our tears. My only salvation was my children. And even then when I told my girls I lost them too for a time. So all my negative thoughts about myself were just amplified

If you reflect on your response that I have quoted above do you think it conveys empathy or accountability? Can you see how you use the word "but" in your statements to minimize, blameshift, invalidate Walloped's pain and make yourself out to be a victim instead?

How do you think you can change that?

Onlytime - I'd like you to be my therapist....if you're taking patients...