SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Not coming clean because of a recommendation by the counselor is something he will need to verify to the best of his ability should he choose to try to R.

It’s very very common for waywards to blame the counselor.

Not saying that she is lying, just that it’s on the list of things to check and verify should the situation go down a specific path.

I agree with Sharkman about WW blaming the therapist in regard to not confessing. Even if therapist wrongly suggested it, WW didn't have to follow that advice.

So sad and angry on your behalf. You do not deserve this! Take care!

From one fellow insomniac to another......

I have to say after reading your story through more than a few times, I am inclined to agreed with Golden, Rubix, and Jduff.

9 years. 9 years of sex, BDSM, costume/role play, anal etc. Falling in love. Wanting to leave you. Writing vile things about you. Giving you vanilla sex after her fun with Michael. All the while you are busting your ass to provide.

There is nothing to indicate she was in love with you. Quite a bit to the contrary.

IMO she would have left you, if the OM had been truly willing. She would publicly start "dating" him once you separated. You would have become a part time father, paying alimony.

And the only reason she did not pull the trigger......ice on the road. Not regret. Not remorse. No come to Jesus moment while sucking him off in the church basement.

Just a slick road.

When you swing from vine to vine like Tarzan there is one rule. Do not let go of one vine until you have ahold of another. She was about to let go of you when her other vine vanished.

R material? Why? Because she got therapy? Therapy to help mourn the loss of her true love? Because she journaled? Because she went and got coached up on how to be a decent human being? Because she found some FOO issues?

All of this psycholgical navel gazing occured after her options were reduced to one....you.

Where was she going to go? What were her other plays? Get a job? Why? She had you bankrolling her fun. And then she had you, without your knowledge, bankroll her therapy to get over the major bummer of her fun dying. Bet she spent a few weeks wishing for that bigger harder better thing to come back from the dead. Or did she pay those co-pays to the shrink with her own money? Didn't think so.

She smiled and said at least you don't have cancer? Yes you did, you just didnt know it. Her. The slow growing tumor that killed your marriage. And for what? Fun. Just fun.

Do you think the images of them, and words she wrote, will ever leave your mind when you look at her?

Her presence is a recipe for PTSD. You have a year. My advice. Stay separated. Get physical and emotional distance. Stay No Contact with her as much as possible. Work out. Protein shakes and water are your friend. So is SI.

Like others have said. You deserve so much better. So much more than her.

[This message edited by ramius at 3:28 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

There are no reasons or explainations or excuses. It happened....that is all. I think a separation is a good idea. I think your wife needs to do her own research about how to recover from this. You handled the confront very well in my opinion...kept nice and cool. Just give it a little time to let it sink in properly. Try and keep busy doing things you enjoy.

[This message edited by Smillie at 4:43 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

I agree that you're wife totally degraded you. You working whole stresfull long days to be able to provide and be a good husband and father, while she does the most nasty things one can imagine with another man. In the mean time insulting you for being a provider, making insults on you're appereance and you're sexual prestations. And now saying she has physically in pain when reading these mails back again. What about you're pain. You indeed have cancer. She is the tumor eating away the healty tissue. Best thing to heal from cancer is to remove the tumor and hope it didnt cause to much damage. I am really sorry for you and would advice to seek help. Imo no normal being can handle such betrayal. How many years you will have lost to her betrayal and how many years you will lose healing from her betrayal.

AO,

it's easy for us to feel outrage at your situation. It's horrible. She doesn't deserve to spend anymore time with you. She's earned whatever shame and humiliation that happens to her. But that's not really the situation is it? As Clint Eastwood said in The Unforgiven, "deserven's got nothing to do with it."

It really doesn't. The key thing for you my friend, is what do you want. what do you want? You may not know at the moment. Personally, I couldn't accept this. I would divorce. But I'm not you. You need to figure out what you want. I think you should probably have her stay at her sister's for a very long time, maybe even a year. Figure out if this is something you can forgive, something you can forget. If it isn't, then at some point pull the trigger. She earned it. It sounds like she knows it. I don't know how you can get past this, but if you feel that you can, then don't take any shame in it. Forgiveness isn't something earned, it's something given.

whatever you do, I would really recommend that you separate, avoid her, let your head clear when she isn't around, and think things over. It sounds like that's what you're planning on doing, and I think that's the right plan.

Hang in there friend. You will get through this. We all do. You will be happy again.

AO this is a huge load to carry. Even though you sound like you're doing ok (by what you're writing) that really doesn't reveal how you're truly feeling right now.

Eventually you're going to get to a point where the anger is overwhelming. Please do NOT bottle it up. Vent.....release it.

You have been given some outstanding wisdom thus far (and it will continue to be here along this journey you're now on). This is a forum and at the end of the day people are giving you things to think of (through their experience) and how they did handle their situation and yes how they would handle your situation if it was happening to them.

No matter what path you choose you will be supported. The decision is yours and everyone respects that.

What cracks me up on this site are the people who come on here and tell the OP not to listen to the people who tell you what to do (if they suggest divorce or R). By saying this THEY TOO are telling you what to do.

It's your life and your decision. In order to make the best decision you have to gather as much info (facts/advice) in order to determine what path you decide to head in. Take ALL the time you need my friend.

Your wife obviously was clueless to what the word "boundaries" means. Being with the OM countless times in your own home and marital bed

In the basement of a church

I have to agree with others that all of the self-help she's done was to deal with the loss of OM. She wasn't "going to leave you" (SHE ALREADY DID......for NINE YEARS).

Once OM died she was stuck with you (you were her fallback option). She didn't really want to be there, but she told herself this was her best option.

This wasn't a one night stand with OM.

How many times a day does she think about OM?

How much space in her brain/mind does OM occupy?

That is THE one thing that would drive me freakin crazy. You look over at her and she's sitting outside in a chair in deep thought.....,who/what is she thinking about? OM? The life/journey that was suddenly taken away from her? That she's making do with her life with you (convincing herself that it's not that bad), BUT if she had the chance to turn back the clock being with OM is really what she wanted?

You have a lot to sort out AO.

Please continue to take care of yourself.

A1,

There is no doubt you and your DD's were not even a Plan B, more like a C. Cuckold. You were nothing more than a checkbook, a dad to your DD's while your 'beloved wife' was enjoying anal, oral, roleplay, on and on with her true love. As vicious as she was in her words during her lovefest,how many times during your vanilla sex (because she refused the things she did with her lover) did you do oral after sloppy seconds? Sick. Sadly her and her lover know, and laughed. You were simply her babysitter and financier of her illicit romps.

If OM did not die, your 'loving wife' would have left you and your daughter's for her lover, her true love. It is obvious to all who read here, and I dare say to you as well; you not only financed her love nest, but also her mourning, her 'therapy'over her loss, and her continued ability to lie to you. You helped her put on this mask. The real woman is the one who fucked you over riding Michael to orgasm.

She was prepared for this day. She had her sister ready, who knew to take her in. Her friends knew. You were and are a laughingstock to all her toxic family and friends. Humiliation beyond belief. They are NOT your family, or friends. They enabled her by keeping you clueless. Expose her to all, let your true friends, family rally around you. Her parents need to know the slut their daughter really is.

She has choreographed, and rehearsed what happened when you found out who she is, to save her hide. Not to be supportive of you. Be wary of crocodile tears.

This woman, this bitch, degraded, humiliated you, your family, and her lovers family. She is a lying POS. My opinion, and the major consensus.

She is not regretful not remorseful. She got caught, plain and simple.

No one can tell you what to do. That is up to you, but I suggest you strike while the iron is hot and get the best possible for you now. Honestly, I think she is in the affair fog. When she awakens and removes her mask, you will see that conniving bitch return and take you for everything.

You have done admirably in this horror story. Keep moving forward do not look back. Decide what is in your best interest. I agree, throw out the bedroom furniture, get rid of his stench, of their lovenest. My God how you were humiliated. She was worried you had cancer? You still do. It is HER.

She did not, and does not deserve you. You are NOT PLAN B,C,D,or Y ANYMORE. You are in control.

Best wishes

[This message edited by Killian at 7:50 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

IMHO

The cornerstone question is

Why didnt she leave the marriage for OM?

She got 9 years to do It.

She has a very bad opnio of A1 and the marriage.

She was very much inlove with OM (took he a lot of terapy to mourne him)

I belive OM never left OBS, so A1 WW waited 9 years.

In a nutshell, A1 is less than plan B, he was not choosen by her , His WW just hadnt energy after loosing OM to find someone new.

She serttled for A1 and maybe thats why she cut off all previos friends. Maybe those Friends were feeded with alot of líes about A1 and thats why they supported WW. After decide to stay with A1 she was afraid to came clean to them and cut them off before some of them had a Talk with A1 about how Lucky he was to keep WW being shuch a despicable man.

9 years is alot of time, alot happened and alot of people was involved.

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 7:09 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

A1,

I decided to hold my breath yesterday and avoid the onrush of posts but your situation was clearly on my mind. I was at a college football game and a craft show but I started to look at everyone, including my own wife, and came to the realization that nothing is really safe anymore relationship wise and while I believe my wife has been faithful, who really ever knows anymore and that is the hardest thing being a member here at SI.

I am not good at marathon posts. I normally leave that to M1965 and Bigger who seem to master those and are two of our best posters, although sometimes we don't see eye to eye, that is irrelevant.

There is a pro-reconciliation and pro-divorce side to this board and everyone denies it but there are definitely those elements and I will be honest and admit that I am not very pro-R. However, I do take exception to the "take what you need and leave the rest" logic that is passed around here because I feel that every new BS here needs to look at every post and think it through. One can go from thinking R and headed to D within minutes and only when you see through the visions and experience of everyone here can you actually analyze a gameplan that will work for you.

I am glad you asked your WW for no contact and that you largely stayed off the thread yesterday. You have handled this shitty, evil situation like 'the man!!' so far and your cancelling Thanksgiving during this shitstorm was definitely the best move. You are thinking clearly and decisively. You are an Engineer. You have a tendency to think with your mind first and that is your biggest asset because IMO, getting through a situation of infidelity requires that you think with your mind first, and throw the heart in the bathroom for the time being.

Now on to what I think needs to be addressed.

1) I agree with those who say you have been cheated on for 20 years and if he never died, she would be with him or the affair would have continued on.

2) I see both the OM and your WW as predators to their BS. The OBS I am hopeful asked God at the gates to dump his scuzzy ass when they arrived together.

3) I have no sympathy for the OM. Sorry, to some that is evil but F him. I do feel horribly for their kid and OBS though.

4) Your WW wife's ability to compartmentalize the affair is insane. Sharkman is right. Every word of what he said, this was a compartmentalization affair and while compartmentalizing can be good in some aspects, in this one it is evil.

5) For those who blame her counselor, they have to keep in mind that the IC she saw worked for her and not A1. If I was her, I would not admit either because admitting would lose you someone as good as A1 is and who would want to do that ? However, I too would have never cheated, let alone in such an insane way. Big difference there.

6) I would like to, someday, see A1 strike back. Maybe he could reach out to the husbands of the enabling friends and let them know what their wives did ?? They need to know the evil creatures they are married to.

7) I was going to address the daughters but A1 addressed it right off the bat. Kudos to you, man. Now keep in mind, and read Donegone's thread, your daughters are not going to stay out of this You need to keep them out of it. They are adults now. They have their own lives. Nicely tell them that everything is about 'you' now and their advocating for their Mom will affect future relations between you all. I somehow feel they won't do that though and they seem to be very respectful and head strong.

8) The neighbors shut up about this. I would look at them and anyone who knew about it very skeptically.

9) You need to see an IC for yourself. Good job on the 180 right away.

10) Good jon lawyering up

11) You are fortunate however, and I will give your WW props, on giving you what seems to be the full truth right off the bat once confronted and for her leaving immediately. In a case such as 36's, his WW stayed there and was a pain in the royal ass. Your WW thankfully got the fuck out of the way.

12) I hope you took the pics of her down. Changed screensavers, whatever. You will not recover if everytime you walk through the house, you see her looking right in your face.

13) I would also put the house on the market. You know you are not going to stay there.

14) I hope you kept backups of the evidence. Even if you would divorce amicably, and hopefully that is the case, you may need it.

15) Always keep in mind that you have half of your life ahead of you. Be good to yourself, stay healthy. Better days are ahead.

16) Some here may advise that you start a 'new' relationship with your wife. I usually advise against this. If you were single and on the market and you had a chance to go out with someone, would you go out with someone who did to their husband what your wife did to you ? I don't think so.

17) I agree with those who said her IC and her 3 years of therapy was about her grieving the loss of the OM and not grieving the evil things she did to you.

18) The fact that she did things for the OM that she wouldn't do for you is disgusting. It normally happens in affairs. I don't get it. For 9 years, you were either getting sloppy seconds or vanilla sex because he was getting it all. To me, there is no getting over that.

19) You did a great job looking into things and trusting your instincts. My only question is about how you missed this for 9 years. Were you working that hard or did you have too much trust in her ?? Just something to think about as you enter your next chapter of your life.

20) Being a SAHD or SAHM is a benefit. It is a gift. They used that gift to screw over the people who gave them that gift. In the end, they get what they deserve.

I hope you have a great Sunday. Whether hiking through a nice park, watching the NASCAR finale or just simply talking to your daughters (and not about Mom BTW), you deserve chill time but please keep us updated. We are here for you and DO NOT GET DEPRESSED and if you get angry, do so constructively. Workout, draw up gameplans, do house cleaning etc...

You are ahead of the game. Stay there bro.

BTW, great posts again by Sharkman and Notanotherchance. Ramius, great post. Booyah too.

also, what was she saying when she called you yesterday, just curious ?

and if you PM me his name, I will gladly go to his grave and treat it with Roundup lol

If I read correctly OM was a SAHD. WW a SAHM so they were never going to leave their marriages.

Just a couple of cake eaters.

Parasites rarely leave the host.

I was married for 45 yrs. and in the blink of an eye, find myself alone at age 68. I don't know how to live this life. I don't like this life but I don't know how to change it or even what I'd like to change it to.

You are in a similar situation, in that you're existing within a framework that few, if any, other people on the face of the earth can relate to.

It makes it so difficult because we really can't talk to anyone about it. Well, we can talk about it but no one can truly relate to what we're going through because it just doesn't happen with any frequency. There aren't any examples for us to follow, any road map of how to proceed.

But I will share my one thought as I read your story and the followups. The betrayal you've experienced is immeasurable and you should get a counselor and/or psychiatrist as soon as possible because the rage (100% justified) and the sadness and the despair are going to hit you when you least expect it. I had a casual conversation with a psychotherapist while on a recent trip and she asked if I'd cried yet and I said no, not really, what's the point? She asked if I've gotten mad yet and I said no, what's the point?

Afterwards, that made me realize I'm not in a very good place because I'm passively letting my life go on while I sit back and just watch it fizzle away.

Anyway, I want to encourage you to see someone (I'm going next week) because you cannot possibly sort this out or make any kind of good decision without help. No one could.

AO, I hope you are looking after yourself. You are my hero! How you haven't lost it completely, I cannot begin to comprehend. I don't want to add your burden but I had one thought. Your wife might have deleted the data from the affair and you've looked at her electronics, but do you know the origin of the physical items around your house? You know; "the picture we together bought on holiday in Italy" or "the paperweight great-aunt Flossy left me in her will". The reason I ask is my wife deleted her correspondence with the OP, but kept things he had bought for her or they bought together. After years of reconciliation I realised recently that some of the ornaments around the house weren't gifts from family! Clearly she needs to keep the memory of something alive which casts a real doubt as to the honesty of her reconciliation. Could your wife be doing the same?

For what they are worth my thoughts and best wishes are with you.

AO,

This is what I feared and this is the situation that IMHO brings out the worst in SI. The portraying of your wife as the Whore of Babylon and portraying your situation as the absolute worst and most terrible scenario we have ever seen here on SI and that you have only got one path out. Usually followed by dubious advice and suggestions on how you control how she acts or what she does during the dissolution of the marriage. It’s like suggesting your house is on fire and your only option would be to blow it up with dynamite.

There is NOTHING special about you or your situation.

Only ONE thing that makes it unique. The unique factor is that it involves YOU. This is the first time we have read of infidelity involving a poster called AmbiavalentOne and his wife.

Other than that, the LTA, the words she used, the actions, the counselor… we have seen it all before in one or more combinations.

The beauty of understanding and accepting that this being your case is the ONLY factor that makes it unique is that it opens for the collective wisdom and experience of SI to lean on. After all – if your case was totally unique and the worst one we have seen – then how could we help?

AO – IMHO it’s imperative that the BS makes one key decision right in the beginning. That decision is simply to decide if the accept being where they are or if they want change. That change basically boils down to refusing to remain in infidelity and finding a path to reach that goal. Rule-of-thumb is that the path is either reconciling the marriage or divorce. I personally have never seen a successful third option.

Are you in infidelity? After all – your wife isn’t cheating as is. Well… we often compare infidelity to addictions like alcoholism. With an alcoholic, it’s not enough that he stops drinking, he must work on the reasons he has the addiction, the situation that puts him at risk and so on and so on. With AA 12 step work (probably the most successful treatment) he must face and make amends to those he wronged and live a life of total honesty. Plus, the addiction impacts the family and the family needs to deal with their issues too.

To me it really does sound like your wife did the work to get to why she cheated and – at least partially – dealt with her emotions during and after the affair. She might even have made amends in the last years. But she never asked forgiveness and the family never got to work through whatever direct or indirect affect her infidelity had on the family.

This gives you a certain advantage to those that come here with a spouse in active infidelity. It gives you the advantage of being able to research your destination, evaluate the paths out of infidelity and then set off when your vision is clear. It makes the route easier and minimizes the risk of you realizing you forgot something or that you need to switch paths.

I am going to encourage you strongly to use this advantage. Give yourself some time now to recover and better understand your situation. Evaluate what you have. Evaluate where you are leaving from. Evaluate where you are headed. Evaluate how you will get there. Evaluate what and whom you will take with you.

And then act.

-------------------------------

About you.

Stay away from booze.

Eat healthy if you can, but make sure you eat. Your body needs the energy because it’s all functioning at double-speed right now. If you don’t feel like eating then eat according to a time-schedule. Go to a sports-store and buy energy or protein shakes. Go to your local hamburger-joint and get a cheese burger and shake. Eat an apple or banana every 4 hours. Whatever. Just make sure you are placing calories into your body because YOU NEED THEM. Healthy is better, but any calorie will do.

Exercise. Doesn’t have to be running marathons. Even if it’s just leaving the house and walking for half an hour. But do it. Force yourself to make your body tired.

Be busy. Don’t mope around feeling sad. If you realize you are sitting in your pj’s unshaved eating yesterday’s pizza wondering about where your life went wrong then go wax your car, mow the lawn, clean the gutters…

Take care of grooming. Feeling clean and fresh does wonders for how you feel.

Build a support network. Interact with others. I think it’s better to be open about things. If you have friends that are close then it’s IMHO better to let them know what you are going through. You only need to share as much as you feel necessary. For some it’s just “we are going through a rough patch”, for others it might be all the details. Do what you need and what gives you the best support.

If nothing else works then talk to your doctor about a mild sedative or sleeping-aid.

--------------------

My thoughts on your wife and her actions.

Infidelity tends to be about fantasy rather than reality.

That’s why we always recommend exposure. It makes the affair reality.

Affairs tend to be about power and validation rather than the OP or the romance.

Your WW affair ended in a rather unique way (but then – we have had cases where the AP died or the affair was discovered after the WS died). But it does seem that your wife got a relatively competent IC that IMHO did A LOT of good.

For one the IC seems to have made your WW realize the true reasons behind the affair.

I am a former cop. Early in my career an old-timer pulled me aside and pointed out that no matter what the crime, the guilty person would always justify the actions. This was so true… The rapist would insist the victim led him on. The mugger would insist that this was the only way to feed his drug-habit. The drunk driver insists he wasn’t really that drunk but had flu. The speeder insist that his errand was so important.

I see the same all the time with infidelity.

Your WW and OM had a long-term affair. They professed love for each other. Yet neither separated. Neither pulled the plug on their marriages. There was no effort on their part during the whole time to seriously create a new permanent relationship from what they had.

That’s because the declarations of love and the descriptions of their spouses were simply excuses to justify why they had to have the affair.

It’s a lot easier to say; “I am cheating because OM is the love of my life” than to admit “I am cheating because it gives me a thrill and validates that I am sexually attractive to someone despite having had 2 kids”. It’s a method to say “OK so I met AO really early and have never been certain if I had what it takes to make other men desire me. Let’s go and see if OM still wants me”.

To me it seems the IC got the message across to her that her emotions were justifications. We often say look at actions not words… Well… her actions during the affair were to stay in this marriage. Her actions after the affair were to work on the marriage. Does this make it any easier for you? Does this mean you have to reconcile? No on both counts, but it is what it is.

Should she have told you? Yes. If the IC suggested she did not… well… that would be wrong. But it could have been a question of timing. MAYBE the IC (btw – INDUVIDUAL C) focused on HER. MAYBE if she had been there a year longer the IC would have pressed this issue. Maybe this fresh from her discoveries she wasn’t strong enough to confess.

I wonder why the IC had her write it down and store the letter…

Two things come to mind (and you can evaluate this from the letter):

It’s a memento to her Big Love. It’s taken out and read silently with a broken heart on their special days or whatever.

It’s the basis for the inevitable confrontation and confession. Something the IC knew would come one day.

Ask yourself: Why did she have it? Why risk having this smoking gun in the house? Why not burn it some years ago, or even store it at sister’s house?

Heck… If you can I would try to see if the IC is still working in your area and see if you can get a session.

Finally, on your wife: What she did was so terribly wrong. I have dealt with hundreds if not thousands of people that do or did wrong. But relatively few that are sociopaths. I guess your WW knows what she did was wrong and knew it all the time. Just like the drunk driver… But like the drunk driver she used some lame excuse to justify her actions.

Her IC seems to have gotten through those justifications and hopefully led her on the right path. But she has carried this albatross round her neck since and will carry it for the rest of her life. It does not make her an eternally immoral person, a repeat adulteress or require she be branded and preferably burned at the stake. From now until the end of time she will be a woman that is/was your wife and the mother to your children. No matter how your marriage ends from this these two things will be facts and you will have to learn how to live in peace with those facts.

------------------

I don’t know what you should do AO… I honestly don’t.

You are totally free to end this marriage and it won’t be anyone’s business to argue against that or for that. It’s your call. I personally walked out of a long-term relationship just weeks before our planned marriage when I discovered she was cheating. But that was me… That was 5 years of my life and no kids, assets, pensions or trust-funds. For ME that was totally the correct decision.

But you are also possibly capable of reconciling with what happened and work on seeking acceptance. You don’t have to. Nobody will blame you if you chose D, but then – nobody should blame you if you chose this path. Lots of people have reconciled, including the couple that founded this site. I guess that’s why I find it so insulting when we have these posters that insist R is a sign of weakness or not possible. To me that’s like inviting oneself to a party and then trashing the room.

All I want to leave you with is that you have several advantages to the average BS. You have time, you have inactive infidelity and you have us giving you support.

Bigger

I would disagree that the OP is in inactive infidelity.

There were still pics on the computer. And she kept a journal about her A. It's still active in her mind. Bc of how it physically ended, she will forever romanticize the relationship.

Inactive infidelity is when the physical aspect and maybe even the contact is over but when the reasons and consequences aren’t dealt with. Unless she had a thing for necrophilia then this infidelity was as inactive as they come.

Potato, potahto....

If she kept mementos of the A, then she never really moved on. Which brings up the fact that this case IS different than anything I've seen, with the A ending with the OM dying (along with his family) after a very LTA.

This scenario very much explains her keepsakes of the A. The love of her life died. How could she just throw his memories away?

She kept a couple of pics...these are memories.

The A would still be going on. Or WW would be with OM since kids went to college.

She has a lot to explain. And need to give the fact not the revises versión.