SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I disagree Bigger. This and the varying opinions is the best part of SI

Nice post, Bigger! Nice post.

All things considered, you seem to be doing well AO. I’m glad for that.

As mentioned before, please take the you must x, or you must y, comments with a grain of salt. Moreover, I strongly recommend that you do the same with the comments that your wife would have left you for “the love of her life,” or that she would still be in an affair with him, but for his death. Such comments are speculative at best, as no one on an internet board can provide an answer to a question to which only your wife knows the answer. As such, I strongly recommend you utilize these hyperbolic posts as nothing more than potential talking points with your wife, should you choose to speak with her again.

What make an affair active is whether or not the person has feeling for the AP not just contact.

The problem you face is you are fighting a ghost. She has nothing but good memories of him.

From what you have written she had a lot of contempt for you for well over a decade. Not only the affair but how open she was with it to others.

My guess is the last seven years have been good because the previous decade was so bad.

She did not fight too hard. Time for you to be loved.

Having read this forum every day for over three years I believe I have just read the best, most helpful, honest and most profound post I have ever seen on this, or any, forum.

Bigger, you nailed it Sir. Such well thought out and eloquently written advice is a blessing.

Ambivalent1; I'm not good enough with words to give clear advice all I can say is to take your time and look after yourself. Is it possible to have a good marriage after what has happened? Yes, yes it is, I and others on here can testify to that, just as other members can testify that is impossible.

Only you get to decide, in time when you are ready.

All the best.

"Are you in infidelity"?

Just because OM is dead doesn't mean that the infidelity is not active. That is TOTAL HORSE SHIT!!!

Does your wife still think about OM?

How often does she think about him?

Does she go to his grave?

Does she reflect back on the good times they had?

Does she get sad when she thinks about the life with OM that was taken away from her?

Does she compare you to him when being intimate?

Infidelity isn't just physical. In fact, some people would say the mental part is EVEN WORSE then the physical part.

It's like abuse. The physical wounds/scars can heal but the mental wounds can stay with a person forever.

How much space does OM occupy in his WW mind?

Whatever space OM takes up in her mind.....that is space that is being stolen from AO. Not just back when OM was alive. This isn't her reflecting back on an old boyfriend. These are memories that were created when SHE WAS MARRIED TO AO.

As for chastising people on this site for portraying his wife as "the whore of Babylon"? Well maybe you might want to go back and read the things she did SEXUALLY with OM while married to AO. She didn't hold back during confrontation (which I give her credit) on all the horrible things she did with OM. You know......things that a WHORE WOULD DO!!!!

She's a human being, and yes she made a lot of wrong choices, for a long ass freakin time. Does it mean that she can't be forgiven for acting like a whore? Well if she's asked for forgiveness from Jesus (she's been forgiven). Can OM forgive her? That is up to AO. He can most definitely forgive her (and at some point he should for his OWN well being), but forgiving will have NOTHING to do with whether or not AO will want to continue on this journey in life with WW.

That's what AO (and ONLY AO) has to decide.

This is NOT a cookie cutter site where everyone thinks the same and is coming from the same place. Wisdom comes from experience, and everyone on here has had their own experiences and with that comes countless opinions and advice on the subject of infidelity. Good and bad.

I agree with western that the "varying opinions is the best part of SI".

She kept mementos of her affair. She never intended you to find out. But she prepared herself if and when you did.

Sugarcoat all you wish, she betrayed your family, she desecrated your home, your bedroom your sanctuary. She deliberately put you down,laughed in your face behind your back. Her sister knew, her friends knew. If he did not die... In my opinion you would be divorced now or even worse still oblivious to this lying cheating.....

Of course we do not know you, your 'loving wife'. But we know your pain, your hurt, your anger. All of us in varying degrees.

She goes to his grave, she pines for him. Her therapist helped her mourn her loss, after years helped her get past it and focus on you, Plan C. AKA her lifeline. I see no remorse, regret, only cold calculated crocodile tears.

Youu are not out of infidelity at all. That is stupid to say and believe. You just discovered your 'loving wife' led two lives, one as a carefree slut, enjoying her lover in your home, trashing you, on your dime. Then she put on her mask and was the houswife, mother, vanilla sex only for you. For how long A1? For how long?? And it would still be going on if fate did not step in.

One could argue they didn't leave their marriages. One could. There was no motivation for either to leave. Would you leave your meal ticket, your security when you can have your lover everyday? When you can role play, fuck in your own marital bed, give sloppy seconds, withhold sex from your check book. Criticize, demean your spouse, all the while laughing with culpable friends and relatives?? Why leave?

What you do is entirely up to you. Please get counseling and take care of you. Keeping mementos reinforces she misses him, and it is possible she wished it was you dead not beloved Michael. Is this speculation? Sure it is. But the probability in my opinion is higher than not.

I am so sorry, I do hope you listen to the collective wisdom.

Best wishes

[This message edited by Killian at 10:42 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

it is certain she wished it was you dead not beloved Michael.

WTF???? Seriously????? How the ffff can you say that? You have no idea what she was thinking.

Manipulation on your part pure and simple. And in no way helpful

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:01 AM, November 20th (Monday)]

AlwaysOnEdge,

The only way to know if she, ta that time, rader A1 died instead of A1 is asking. Not the revises versión arte terapy an accepting OM was deth. The ese feeling after OM died and she was mourning.

Fact to considera.

She kept memories , the pics and Good know why else.

She did break the A

Took her a years to cut off toxic Friends.

Didnt Come clean,

Iván sorry but based only on this facts, she didnt choose A1 , she usted him to have her fun , financiera the whole thing, and have a family. She was planning to taken It to the grave, maybe she was worry about him dying for financial reasons. Just the WW knows and she wont come clean, she is a remorseless coward, just felt regret to Hurt A1 with her letters, It doesnt mean she didnt meant everyword at that time...or now.

A1

The decisión to R or D is only yours. Here you will find tons of advise and you must choose what you taken.

Last 20 years were a lie, but tryed to see them as when you were a child and belive in santa. Now you know that he doesnt existe but it wont taken the Magic of your memories. The same with your marriage, you had the chance to see your Ds everyday, to have a family, to be a husband and a dad. Evento if you D no one can take that from you! If you choose to stay do it for the rigth reasons not for the past as rigth now you know it is fake. Sorry but you will never belive in santa or your wife ever again. Evento if R, as you can read at SI, your marriage will never be the same, your feelings for your wife will never be the same

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 11:05 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

very well put Booyah. I agree.

Killian and Kannan, I agree with you too.

Bigger, other than that one part of your post, I too think you made very good points in your post but anyone can refer back to my post this morning to see where I think things are.

My biggest concern here is how A1 is doing today. He has handled this well but it is only the beginning and I am eternally grateful that my situation over 20 years ago is lame in comparison.

A1, did you take my suggestion and turn her photos in the house over yet or hide them ?

What is your gameplan from here ? I know it's early and it i probably not well formed yet but you can start building one.

Please keep us updated bro

Rambler, spot on

I am in agreement with Bigger here....while absolutely in the wrong, and for a reason beyond her control, your WW has sought to re-commit herself to you following the lose of the AP. That said, she could have simply remained or re-established another A. Instead she re-dedicated herself to the M and to you. When confronted, she did not rugsweep or deny, she seemed to own what she did, apologized and asked you what YOU needed or wanted. She appeared to me to be fully remorseful and complied to your wish that she give you some space.

I definitely see this as recoverable but TBH, only you can decide. Many here are coming from a place of betrayal and I get that, but please decide for yourself. Don't carry their betrayal into your M or dissolution of said M.

KG

I'm fairly certain that Ambivalentone is an intelligent man and really doesn't need anyone telling him NOT to listen to this or that person. By the way he's handled things it appears he's well aware of what he needs to do. Reading every post and seeing every possible scenario will just help firm up his decision, whichever way it goes.

As far as Reconciliation or Divorce goes. The bottom line is can he live with the feelings, triggers, Memories, lack of trust, etc. if he does choose to stay with her. It doesn't matter what she has done in therapy or her 'commitment'after the affair. From Dday on it should be about A1.

That is truly all that matters in the decision. What A1 is capable of enduring in the long run, and obviously, he is the ONLY person that can make that decision.

A1, I wish you strength and clarity of mind my friend.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 4:23 PM, November 19th (Sunday)]

This is what I feared and this is the situation that IMHO brings out the worst in SI. The portraying of your wife as the Whore of Babylon and portraying your situation as the absolute worst and most terrible scenario we have ever seen here on SI and that you have only got one path out. Usually followed by dubious advice and suggestions on how you control how she acts or what she does during the dissolution of the marriage. It’s like suggesting your house is on fire and your only option would be to blow it up with dynamite.

^^^ Bigger, you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately this seems to be a relatively recent dynamics change to SI. I remember the days when people actually got unbiased support. When one was offered what red flags to look for and encouraged that things were rarely as they appeared. When one was encouraged to dig deep and not just believe whatever the WS was feeding them. When NC was encouraged and time was needed before any major decisions should be made.

But the demonizing of the WS that is seen now is, to me, beyond the pale. It seems now that the ONLY way to handle infidelity is through D. No matter how remorseful a WS is, they aren't really remorseful. They are just covering their ass. It's sad, really.

She goes to his grave, she pines for him. Her therapist helped her mourn her loss, after years helped her get past it and focus on you, Plan C. AKA her lifeline. I see no remorse, regret, only cold calculated crocodile tears.

^^^Killian, you know this how?

A1, I agree, you are handling this with more finesse that many I have seen on this site when handed this shit sandwich. Time. Only time will give you the clarity you will need to know how to process and proceed. Wishing you all the best.

ETA:

If she kept mementos of the A, then she never really moved on. Which brings up the fact that this case IS different than anything I've seen, with the A ending with the OM dying (along with his family) after a very LTA.

GoldenR - unless you are a long standing member with a new username, I find this quite telling -

Bigger - Member #8354 since Sept 2005

GoldenR - Member #54778 since August 2016

[This message edited by imokay at 11:30 AM, November 19th (Sunday)]

Jeez...I hadn't even thought about the possibility of her (not now, but at the time) wishing that A1 had died, and not her POSOM.

I can't imagine the feeling of wondering that about yourself and a dead OM.

A1...I will be keeping you in my prayers.

Yes, threads like this do tend to bring out the worst in SI from both the pro-D and pro-R sides. The thought that anyone is required to give a WS a shot at R because they are remorseful is ridiculous. Likewise, if a BS decides they can look past what the WS has done and believes they are better off with the (hopefully former) WS in their life who are we to say otherwise.

That said, it is impossible to not have some strong emotions in situations like this. Furthermore, I suspect individual perspectives are often skewed by the grass being greener on the other side of the fence. Those who decided to D or leave the relationship if not M, lived with the pains that caused and think about what might have been if they had given it a shot or if they had a remorseful spouse who would attempt R. On the other hand, those who R or tried to R know firsthand the challenges a BS faces down that road and think it might have been easier/better to just end it before subjecting themselves to more heartache. In reality both paths are shit sandwiches, just different flavors.

I agree with those saying that A1’s actions so far have been just about perfect given the circumstances. Consequently, I trust that he will continue to make choices which are in his best interest, and I think that’s what everyone here is hoping for.

No matter how remorseful a WS is, they aren't really remorseful. They are just covering their ass. It's sad, really.

Unless the WS comes clean on their own for no self serving reason, isn't that really the case?

In this case she covered her ass for 18 years, and now all of a sudden bc she gets busted, her CYA mode of thinking goes away? Not likely...

You are going to get a lot of emotional questions coming up. You and I are both engineers.

No matter what happens, the next 21 days will have tasks that you must do whether you were going to 100% divorce or 100% reconcile. Use those 21 days to focus on things that you have to do. Executing plans establish a level of control. The entire purpose of this Just Found Out forum is to return a sense of empowerment to the betrayed spouse. You WILL get there.

1. Since you need 1 year separation it’s a GREAT job getting that ball rolling. In addition to getting a jump on things it gives you control

2. Great job exposing to the children. Next up is controlled exposure to other close family.

3. In the next 21 days you should have time to meet a number of ICs and pick on that you align with.

4. Pick a close friend in real life that you can lean on. We can be your friends but nothing beats real life support

5. Find a few mentors here. Someone like ohforanewme would be a great guy to reach out to. Lots of people in this thread at once can be a little overwhelming

6. Maintain full No Contact for a week. Your brain simply needs to settle down. If she calls or texts let her know you’ll block her if she doesn’t stop.

^^^Bigger, your post is a thing of beauty. Objective, analytical, non-agenda driven and articulate. It's like a fucking Gothic Cathedral.

AmbivalentOne, I hope you are still here to read that.

The great strength and weakness of SI is the freedom to offer one's opinion, and that everyone can emotionally relate to the posters. I believe that nearly everyone here genuinely wants to help one-another. The 'group mind' that is SI has thousand's of years of experience dealing with this crap. Patterns emerge in both betrayals and means of dealing with them. Old-timers especially can offer good advice because they have seen what works and what does not.

Sometimes though the negative 'pile-on' phenomenon occurs, complete with graphic worst-case absolute type descriptions and runaway assumptions. Often the OP, already traumatized, leaves the forum. Which is sad. I don't think those posters intend for this to occur or realize how brutally insensitive they are being. They probably feel that the answer's obvious to them and want to make that happen. [I've been guilty of this a few years ago before I had fully processed my own pain.]

Your situation is one of those that will bring out all this mess because there are positive aspects as well as the negative ones.

Hence the tone of the earlier posts by Bigger and myself. I expect things will calm down eventually if you stay on. Certainly the Divorce/Separation and Reconciliation forums are less of a wild-west atmosphere, because the R or D decision has been made. Something to consider down the road. Again, not that you need to make that decision right now. You are prepping for D though which is an excellent mental mindset to be in and one that I nearly always recommend. Time enough later to call it off.

Our situations are different but our mental processes were very similar just after DDay. Mentally moving forward with information gathering and decision making even though you are dying inside. It gets better! You may still be wanting to gather information necessary to make a sound decision. In my case, another read-through of the 'sunk cost fallacy' and associated cognitive biases pertaining to that solidified my decision. So R was a non-starter.

I think one important piece of information you need to process this is the actual extent to which your WW truly cared for OM. A lot has been said here with little basis. IMO you need more information. When you do communicate with WW, request that she authorize her counselor to answer any and all your questions pertaining to her treatments with her. Also request WW to draft a statement including keepsakes, grave-visiting frequency and last occurrence, etc, telling her you will be following up with a polygraph.

None of this requires you to R of course. You just might want to get more facts vs speculation.

Once again, you are handling this very well. IC is spectacular idea. Honestly, it seems that WW's IC wasn't too bad, at least from the perspective of treating and preparing her patient. See if she has a recommendation perhaps?

Best of luck to you brother.