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Divorce/Separation :
And here we go

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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 4:14 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

I dont think stxwh is going to make this divorce simple in any way. I don't feel mediation will work.

I also have already jumped through hoops to have a lawyer and I trust him to make sure we are taken care of.

Other than cost what benefit is there to using mediation?

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801290
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hemademesingle ( member #21281) posted at 4:49 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Cost is a big factor, divorce can get very expensive.

If your stbxwh wasn't cooperative during your relationship, he probably won't be easy to get along with during divorce.

I hope your stbxwh gets his paperwork filed with the courts before the 30 day time limit.

posts: 466   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2008   ·   location: Canada
id 8801326
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 4:57 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

I hope your stbxwh gets his paperwork filed with the courts before the 30 day time limit.

What happens if he doesn't?

I was told he can request an extension. And probably will.

Has anyone else here been through the divorce process while also dealing with criminal court?

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801332
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hemademesingle ( member #21281) posted at 5:14 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Not criminal court.

My xh never turned in his paperwork, we went into the divorce with the documents I had. I kept good paperwork when we were together, I actually had the LIRA (retirement) funds paperwork as well as the RRSP documents.

I did win 2500 for a contempt of court against him. It of course went straight to my lawyer.

My xh drug our divorce out for 7 years. I paid 15000.00 in court filing fees and lawyers bill.

3 separate occasions the judge told my xh he needed to hire a lawyer in the county we were divorcing in. That delayed the divorce because each time he was given 2 months. There was so many things that he did to drag it out.

I hope things go smoother for you.

posts: 466   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2008   ·   location: Canada
id 8801342
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 5:29 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

My xh drug our divorce out for 7 years. I paid 15000.00 in court filing fees and lawyers bill.

Reading stories like that scare the crap out of me. I sure hope things go smoother. 7 years is a long time to be going through all of this. I'm sorry your ex did that to you.

Maybe stxwh will be in such a hurry to marry AP that he won't make divorcing me difficult.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801350
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hemademesingle ( member #21281) posted at 5:34 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

I think you can get your divorce faster because of the oc.

posts: 466   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2008   ·   location: Canada
id 8801355
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 8:02 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Other than cost what benefit is there to using mediation?

Not sure about Canadian law, but here in the US, if you pursue mediation, you don't file for divorce--you broker an agreement and THEN file and have the judge sign off on it.

This has a number of drawbacks, the most important being that you have no legal standing if he starts to play games like not paying support because you haven't filed a complaint and the court doesn't have jurisdiction until you do so. So if he doesn't supply requested financial information, you have zero leverage to compel him to do it if you are mediating.

Now that's not to say that you cannot come to an agreement AFTER the complaint is filed. In fact, good attorneys will encourage you to do so. But having the complaint filed gives you power that you wouldn't have via straight mediation.

Mediation does give you a modicum of control over the outcome. If you let a judge decide you might be disappointed--if you mediate, at least you know you have the best brokered agreement you could come up with.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33182   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Ohio
id 8801408
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 8:30 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Adultery and cruelty are listed under separation on thr divorce paperwork.

I think the yearwait for a divorce can be reduced but only if everything else is settled.

Cat,

Is it wrong that I prefer to go through the court instead of mediation?

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801418
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FunHouseMirror ( member #80992) posted at 11:11 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

You know your husband better than anyone, and you know what he'll be like in mediation. I feel it will even end up costing you MORE by going through mediation as he will feel he has all the power and will take advantage of that. Having an attorney on your side will (hopefully) reign him in and keep this moving toward an ending that is fair to you and your children.

posts: 248   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2022
id 8801435
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 11:38 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

Maybe stxwh will be in such a hurry to marry AP that he won't make divorcing me difficult.

Mediation does not work with high conflict spouses, as they are often called during the divorce process. (Lots of articles and YouTube videos.) These people see themselves as victims as they try to take everything for themselves, use people and exploit laws to get what they want, and destroy their loved ones--either in the process or as one of their intended goals. Hypocrisy is not even a strong enough word for the way that they live their lives. There is an article in today's Huff Post about how difficult these people are. Search it up; it's called "I Help People Get Divorced. I'm Begging You — Don't Ignore These Red Flags Before Marrying." (Try to ignore the fact that you already married him. It does discuss what to expect in divorce, although it's dark.) I felt sick reading, having dealt with the behaviors during break ups. But divorce with kids and finances to split makes it worse. But you must go forward! It must be faced. There are many members who have been through similar divorces and can offer experienced support, Dragn. Lean on them. Private message them.

I'm unsure if wh will fight to see the kids. He told dd he would call her and it's been a long time and he won't. He now keeps telling her to call him and she really doesn't want to. He will then say something like "I guess no call tonight".

As if it's up to the kids to initiate communication.

If he wanted to talk to them he would call!

This is such a commom tactic with narcissistic types, to put the responsibility on their kids (and any other person) for doing, being, and fixing things that are clearly their responsibility. It is, in my view, the unfortunate quality that turns narcissists into horrible parents. It's not enough that they let you down, they find a way to blame you for the pain of the let down, too! And this is why kids eventually see through it (because how did I make you act like a shitty person?) or become a narcissist themselves to tolerate the pain of it (so says the research).

You cannot cover for the person your WH is, not that you are trying to. But you can't. The kids may not understand Why things happen with him, but they know that they happen--he's not around, doesn't call, doesn't provide. He's absent without excuse or accountability. And they know it. It makes me sad for them, but they will survive it and figure it out. They already have mental health support, which is better than most of us ever had. They will be ok, Dragn.

The divorce will be hard, but the battle will make you stronger, faster, tougher, and bigger than you ever knew you could be. It is through adversity that self-esteem is built. You will come out on top.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5877   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8801437
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 11:58 PM on Friday, July 28th, 2023

I do want a lawyer by my side for what I can't do myself.

I filed the paperwork and arranged to have him served. I didnt think I could manage that much but I did.

I've read how a criminal case can affect family court, just dont want to get into specifics on the open forum. These things were on the government web site so I do believe them. It complicates everything.

If my lawyer asked the questions he did, sure as shit a judge will.

And I'm dealing not only with family court stuff but also criminal court. I have an appointment next week thstagain I can't discuss here. It's got me stressed.

I know just from the police charging stxwh he is angry with me and will move mountains to make my life hell.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801442
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 5:04 PM on Saturday, July 29th, 2023

OIN is right you need a lawyer to deal with this type of personality. I’m going through it now. He plays the victim all while trying to abuse me now through this divorce. He’s gotten the kids involved and actually had my daughter help him fill out his discovery papers to disclose his finances (he is currently trying to hide them and asking me to pay him alimony and his lawyer fees when he makes more money than me and is living in a much larger house than me). He shouldn’t be involving the kids at all in this. I had to explain my side of it because he is making it sound like what I am asking for is outlandish when I’m only following the laws here and want what is fair.

I’m here for you if you want to vent as I’m dealing with divorcing a disordered person as well. It is pure hell on earth.

fBS/fWS(me):50 Mad-hattered after DD (2008)
XWS:53 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
DD(20) DS(17)
XWS cheated the entire M spanning 19 years
Discovered D-Days 2006,2008,2012, False R 2014
Divorcing

posts: 8799   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8801491
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 6:10 PM on Saturday, July 29th, 2023

OIN is right you need a lawyer to deal with this type of personality. I’m going through it now.

I agree. I don't think I could handle this on my own knowing how wh is.

He plays the victim all while trying to abuse me now through this divorce.

This exactly. My stxwh is already playing the victim. It drives me nuts! He is not the victim in this.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801498
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barcher144 ( member #54935) posted at 2:07 AM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Mediation does not work with high conflict spouses, as they are often called during the divorce process.

I had a pretty good experience with mediation, actually. Having a third party who is independent of either side can be very persuasive.

And, yes, this is all crazy expensive in both time and in money.. I spent way more than $15,000 on my divorce but I regret the loss of time more than anything.

Me: Crap, I'm 50 years old. D-Day: August 30, 2016. Two years of false reconciliation. Divorce final: Feb 1, 2021. Re-married: December 3, 2022.

posts: 5419   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8801620
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 2:38 AM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Ok well how does it work when I've already filed my paperwork with the court and have a lawyer?

Can I chose to use a mediator for thr majority if things and the lawer if wh become difficult?

I dont understand how a mediator is any different than a lawyer other than cost.

Frankly I want a judge to set out child custody and support. I have enough to warrant supervised visitation. Especially with the criminal case.

I've also made sure to ask for a police enforceable court order regarding the kids IF supervised visitation isn't provided.

That doesn't sound like a mediation thing to do but I court and lawyer thing.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801624
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 3:15 AM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

You would need barcher and others to speak to this in detail because we used a mediator but no lawyers, but...

Ok well how does it work when I've already filed my paperwork with the court and have a lawyer?

There are two components of the divorce to agree on:

1. Financial agreement

2. Parenting agreement

These have to be decided before the divorce is granted. So who to use to accomplish that? The court doesn't care, but they would love it if was decided outside of court. Easier.

Can I chose to use a mediator for thr majority if things and the lawer if wh become difficult?

I don't see why not. Just have your lawyer look over all final agreements, maybe keep them on consult.

If you use a mediator, you go back and forth (room to room, day to day, whichever) with the mediator guiding you toward compromise. "Ok, he looked at this and agrees with this but wants this." Then you work with your attorney to offer a response if necessary. Will you be nervous agreeing to things without an attorney looking at it first? The mediator could help, but they fall short of actually advising. Mine would not do that. She said things like, "It's a commom request, but it's up to you."

You are paying attorney fees and paying the mediator, but the court is not deciding! You are involved in the deciding...if you can get to an agreement this way. I'm not sure if using an attorney shortens or lengthens the time, or increases or decreases the cost. But their participation would be necessary in your case because you'd be nervous about what he's trying to get away with, right?

I was told that when both portions are presented and signed, the judge just usually signs. Done. An attorney is NEVER required unless you bring one in.

Then your other option is attorneys trying to negotiate agreement, same as mediation but without the mediator's skills of compromise. This is just sent back and forth between offices. And then if no agreement, it most likely goes to court where the decisions are OUT of your hands. The court decides. You just wait to hear their decision, and you may hate it.

Others can elaborate in more detail, but mediation felt like control. It felt like I could negotiate. The idea of court felt...cold, uninformed, and out of my control entirely. You can think a judge will see it your way, but crazy things happen in family court.

I dont understand how a mediator is any different than a lawyer other than cost.

To me a mediator felt like an MC + an attorney in one person. They have people skills. They can offer ideas for compromise or movement that a lawyer wouldn't offer because they are not representing both parties. Each lawyer is fighting for their client. But the mediator is fighting for a reasonable win/win compromise. The judge? Who knows. You get who you get, and they see things how they see things. It feels so arbitrary. A mediator actually felt helpful. However, if your ex cannot be trusted, an attorney would be required at some point. Too many things can go wrong, even with a great mediator.

BUT both parties have to be truly negotiating and moving. Many times one person asks for the sky ("I am not paying a cent") and isn't really there to compromise. Then don't waste time and money. Head to court if there is not movement each session. That's how the costs skyrocket.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:36 AM, Monday, July 31st]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5877   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8801625
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 3:35 AM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Well I strongly doubt stxwh will agree to supervised visitation.

So that alone requires the court to make a decision.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801626
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 3:41 AM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Well I strongly doubt stxwh will agree to supervised visitation.

So you won't be able to agree on the parenting portion.

And finances? Would he agree to a reasonable sum of monthly support and letting you keep your home? If not, then the financials won't work in mediation either.

I'm sorry. This is not uncommon. It only takes one asshole in a D to land you in front of the judge who decides.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:42 AM, Monday, July 31st]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5877   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8801627
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hemademesingle ( member #21281) posted at 10:53 AM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Mediation will only work if you are both willing to compromise. I tried meditation with my xh, he didn't want to agree to anything. Was a waste of time and money.

Supervised visitation may be hard to get unless there is a documented history of abuse to the children. The older 2 children can say they don't want to go, the courts may listen to them and put supervised visitation for the younger ones. Family courts are concerned with keeping both parents involved with the children. I think that courts should take into consideration how the children feel about visitation. Children need to feel safe.

As for awarding you the family home, that is very possible. You would probably just have to pay your stbxwh his portion of the equity built up.

Is your stbxwh paying his half of the mortgage payment, property taxes and insurance.

posts: 466   ·   registered: Oct. 16th, 2008   ·   location: Canada
id 8801637
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 DragnHeart (original poster member #32122) posted at 12:27 PM on Monday, July 31st, 2023

Supervised visitation may be hard to get unless there is a documented history of abuse to the children. The older 2 children can say they don't want to go, the courts may listen to them and put supervised visitation for the younger ones. Family courts are concerned with keeping both parents involved with the children. I think that courts should take into consideration how the children feel about visitation. Children need to feel safe.

After wh was arrested and police told him not to come home, the kids told me things that had happened on the days I went shopping. They didn't feel safe enough to tell me while he was here. That was reported to CAS. If that isn't enough to get supervised visits I don't know what else to do.

As for awarding you the family home, that is very possible. You would probably just have to pay your stbxwh his portion of the equity built up.

That's what I'm hoping for but I have other plans ready to go if I am forced to sell.


Is your stbxwh paying his half of the mortgage payment, property taxes and insurance.

He isn't paying a damn thing! Nothing!

Dd got a message from him this morning saying "her grandfather" dropped off birthday gifts for her and ds. I walked down to the bus shelter with her to get them. I know damn well it was wh. No way his father would drive up here at 4am. But wh is here at that time.

I can't prove it was him. Even if he pulled in it was dark and he disnt come down the driveway far enough to turn in the motion light. It's his way to give me a fuck you, I can still show up and there's nothing you can do about it.

This is the person I'm dealing with. Even with police giving him conditions he will still find ways around it.

If he wants me dead there's nothing stopping him!

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 25768   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8801645
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