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He's Already Lied

Topic is Sleeping.
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 9:35 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

You have his address. That's all you need. Send him a certified letter. One that requires his,only his,signature. Tell him who you are,who your husband is,and tell him what you know of the affair. Send a copy of any evidence you have..texts,pics,phone records,etc. Stick to the facts. Don't go off on his wife. He will feel the need to defend her,and be more inclined to believe you are lying. Give your phone number, and ask that he call you with questions, or at least to let you know the letter has been received.

Do NOT tell your husband you've done this. Not before,and not after you speak to her husband. If your husband confronts you on it,you know he is still speaking to her.

posts: 4669   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8736905
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 9:44 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

He claims to understand how I feel.

He can claim whatever he wants. Why do you care since it contradicts everything in front of you? You can see with your own two eyes that he does not want to understand how you feel. Does. Not. Want. To. What he wants is chatting with his AP and closure (i.e. more time together). These are the facts. Your feelings are not his priority.

I'll tell you my opinion but you probably won't like it. When he answered the phone and pulled over to talk, he chose her over you. He showed you that he has no desire to end the A. He's waiting you out. His AP knows that you know, and when he answered the phone, she thought, "He's still mine." When you screamed at her, she knew it was out of jealousy. Because of the hold she has over him.

I wish you luck. You are gonna need it.

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5644   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8736910
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 9:44 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

I don't know what kind of pics you've gotten hold of, but when it was me... they were pornographic. barf
Make sure you don't send nudes. You don't want to get busted on revenge porn laws.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5957   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8736912
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Trapped74 ( member #49696) posted at 10:23 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

I wish, way back when, that I would have looked at infidelity as the abuse it really is. Would any of us stick around if our WS physically abused us - telling ourselves, "well, it's only natural, he's so used to using me like a punching bag, it will take a while for him to get out of the MMA fog." No, of course not! Take it from those of us who have been here a while: this latest scene will play out over and over and over again for the next... hmmm, 7 years and counting.... These WS are broken beyond repair. If you're OK playing marriage cop, OK with every other bit of Strange being prioritized over you, OK with being told "Get over it already," OK with all the little (and big) lies he will continue to tell just like he breathes, OK with angry, irrational, downright cruel (like, "holy fuck, who is this monster I'm married to??") fights where he blames you for everything and whines about how valid his feeling are barf then stay. If I'd known what the next 7 years of my life would be like, I would have run screaming.

But of course:
MY WH wasn't like others.
MY WH was a good guy that just made a mistake.
I'm not as weak as other BS (yes, my WH actually said something of this nature to me!)
Our lurrrrve story will conquer all.

barf
barf
barf

Send a certified letter to OBS, then get thee to a lawyer.

Many DDays. Me (BW) 46 Him (WH) 49
Happily detached and compartmentalized.

posts: 233   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Oregon
id 8736920
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 10:35 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

That entire conversation (and the fact that it happened in the first place) was awful, but the real dealbreaker for me was that he gave her heads up that you would be contacting her husband.

He is conspiring with his AP against you and her BH. In my opinion, that means that they still have a relationship and that their affair is still ongoing, even if they haven’t actually slept together or seen each other since Dday.

Lastly, based on what he was willing to admit about their conversation, I’ll bet there is a ton of far nastier things that he hasn’t told you. This was not the first conversation they’ve had post Dday and it certainly won’t be the last.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 868   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8736924
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beauchateaux ( member #57201) posted at 11:22 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

Yeah, I think the dealbreaker for me would have been him warning her that you were thinking of contacting her husband. Because now she's got an advantage. She can start spinning her story well before you do it. She'll tell him you're a paranoid, jealous nut. Then, when you DO contact him, he will be less inclined to believe you.

To be clear, I'm not saying to not do this - you absolutely should send the certified letter with all your proof. If for no other reason, because it's the LEAST he deserves.

So far, he’s had no accountability to anyone but me.

Very gently, he hasn't had any from you, either. All you've done is tell him stuff like 'Unless I see..." and "If you don't..." and "You need to...or else". But what are the actual consequences? Forgive me if you've addressed some of this before, but - do you still sleep with him? Have you kicked him out of the bed/room? Have you stopped doing his laundry and cooking his meals? Has his awful behavior been exposed to other people he cares about? Has he been forced to stop volunteering at the theater as a consequence of his poor choices?

He doesn't give a crap about these "do this or else" ultimatums of yours (clearly) because when he crosses the lines you've supposedly drawn in the sand, nothing happens. So, you yell at him - so? He just has to act contrite and go through the motions and you're back to thinking he's 'trying'. He doesn't care if you call the AP - so you swore at her and said she needs to stop calling your H. But why should she? Obviously he's more than happy to take her calls, and she doesn't care about you, so...?? I'm not trying to make you feel bad because whatever, we all lose it and I'm sure it felt good, but all that call did is confirm that you are NOT in control of the situation and that your feelings don't hold any sway over him. You wouldn't HAVE to threaten the AP if your H were committed to R and NC. You know?

Keep posting here, even if some of the advice isn't what you want to hear or hurts you right now. Believe me, we all speak from experience (unfortunately).

I edit pretty much every post because I always hit submit and then think of 'one more thing' to say.

posts: 308   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2017   ·   location: Chicago
id 8736939
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 1:32 AM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

You can try contacting her husband through linkedin.

More than likely the message will go directly to his email.

I would not go into details, I would just say, my name is ( insert here) and your wife, (insert here) had an affair with my husband.

Give him your email address to respond.

I would not send any texts or photos to him.

If he contacts you, then you can chat with him by phone and discuss the evidence you have.

posts: 11614   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8736959
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 2:20 AM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

I agree 1000% with beauchateaux. Your husband isn't acting like a man who has shattered the foundations of his marriage and is standing at the cusp of losing everything. Instead, he is behaving like a mischievous teenager who is sneaking around his mother's back because she doesn't like his girlfriend. And you're reacting to him as if you are a frustrated parent who has to keep tabs on her kid but never follows through on her threats to ground him when catches him breaking the rules. As for the AP, I think one of the reasons she is so brazen is because she thinks you can't or won't do anything but make noise because you're scared of losing him.

You can reclaim your power and self-respect from your WH and his AP by simply refusing to their play their stupid games. Stop making threats, stop telling him what he can or can't do, and stop listening to his lies and his worthless promises. The only thing that matters from this point forward--for both of you-- is action. As others have said, you can take action by notifying his AP's BH. He needs to figure out what actions he should take to win back your trust because it's not your responsibility to teach him how to be a decent husband.

I also think making a list of your boundaries and dealbreakers would help you organize your thoughts and formulate future courses of action.

Your boundaries should be things are that they are within your power to control and aren't contingent on him doing or not doing anything. For example, when he tried to blame you for breaking NC because he never got closure, you set a boundary by refusing to accept any responsibility for his choices. He seemed to back off pretty quickly from that line of argument! You don't need to explicitly tell him every single one of your boundaries; you just need to be willing and able to swiftly and strongly enforce them whenever he crosses the line.

Dealbreakers are self-explanatory. If he does anything that's a dealbreaker, you immediately file for divorce.
Be honest with yourself about what those dealbreakers are before you communicate them to your husband. The last thing you want to do is subject yourself to further pain because he thinks your word means nothing.

On a final note, I just want to assure you that you are worth far more than this bullshit... please don't lose sight of that. Who the hell does your husband think he is strutting through the door after talking to his AP like a stallion who just won the Kentucky Derby? He is lucky you gave him the opportunity to breathe the same air as you after everything he's done.

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 868   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8736964
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 FireandWater (original poster member #80084) posted at 2:46 AM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

You can try contacting her husband through linkedin.

More than likely the message will go directly to his email.

I hope this is the case because I did it! I messaged him on Linkedin! I hope it goes to his email and he see it and responds tonight. I'm in the mood for a little AP exposure session! I'll report back after he contacts me.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I was going to contact a friend who is a priest. I spoke at length with him this afternoon. He could not have been kinder or more understanding. He listened to the whole story, asked questions and made some very helpful comments. He's been a priest for nearly 27 years and has dealt with infidelity issues many times in his congregations. He agrees that WH is still under the influence the "affair fog." He also agreed that until WH is willing to pull his head out and accept full accountability for what he's done, he won't be ready for R. He offered to call WH and have a chat with him, ask him where his head is at and if he can offer and help or guidance. He also offered to meet with us together and facilitate a discussion. Since the two of them are close friends and play in a gaming group together, he asked if WH would be embarrassed if he calls him up and starts talking about the A. I said, "I hope he's embarrassed! He should be mortified! He needs to feel the pressure from someone besides me!" I felt better after the call. Talking to someone and spilling the whole story to such a comforting person felt good. I'll keep you guys updated.

posts: 105   ·   registered: Mar. 15th, 2022
id 8736967
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 8:34 PM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

You did great! In terms of exposure, I suspect that the OW intercepting a message on LinkedIn would be very difficult indeed. So, you'll probably get him. And I think you did really well to reach out to your friend the priest. Building a support network is important, and even though you suspect your WH will be initially embarrassed, that's fine. You're right. He should be. But then, hopefully he will talk, and hearing it all from his own mouth will likely be enlightening to him. I really do think your instincts have been serving you well.

((hugs))

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5957   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8737064
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 FireandWater (original poster member #80084) posted at 9:54 PM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

You did great! In terms of exposure, I suspect that the OW intercepting a message on LinkedIn would be very difficult indeed. So, you'll probably get him. And I think you did really well to reach out to your friend the priest. Building a support network is important, and even though you suspect your WH will be initially embarrassed, that's fine. You're right. He should be. But then, hopefully he will talk, and hearing it all from his own mouth will likely be enlightening to him. I really do think your instincts have been serving you well.

Thanks so much! This means a lot!

I have yet to hear from the OBS. I'm thinking that perhaps I might not. I did leave her that rather terse voicemail on Monday in which I asked if she had informed her spouse and said perhaps I will. It's possible that she told him immediately rather than having him hear it from me. And if he knew by the time he received my LinkedIn message, I suppose he might just choose to ignore my message rather than engaging with me. She might also have convinced him not to respond to me. She's never once responded to any emails I've sent her. It's in his hands now. He can contact me or not. At least I feel relieved that I no longer have to stress over making the decision to tell him and scouring the internet for his contact information. I also feel relief at having told our priest friend. He has not yet called WH, but I'm sure he will in the next day or two. And I'm sure WH will tell me after they've talked.

posts: 105   ·   registered: Mar. 15th, 2022
id 8737081
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 10:06 PM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

I hope the OBS contacts you. What happens in situations like this is that either the ow is a step ahead, thanks to your WH warning her, and got hold of his phone blocking you on all social media including LinkedIn, either she told him a story about a crazy jealous wife who got this false idea in her head that she’s in an affair with her husband and convinced him to ignore any communication, or she told him some affair facts (but not much), minimised it and convinced him again to ignore anything.

Time will tell but if you do decide to send him a letter as well I would include some sort of proof to get him thinking.

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1561   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Europe
id 8737082
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emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 10:15 PM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

Great job FireandWater!

Chanel that anger into productivity! I would follow up with a letter sent via regular mail given that OW has not yet disclosed and has been tipped off that disclosure is coming - it wouldn't be hard for her to screen his incoming emails if she has access to his phone. Most people aren't checking their Linkedin profile regularly. Either that, or I'd literally go knock on the door at a time when you think he might be home - that if you think you can handle it (I feel like you probably can).

Telling OBS of the A immediately post-D-day was the best move I made. It meant that there were two sets of eyes watching over our spouses and that really put a kibosh on any inappropriate outreach the OW made post-D-day when my husband informed me and I promptly notified OBS.

All this said, this was a MAJOR f_ck up on your husband's behalf - i know you don't need me to tell you this. Your response to this sets the stage for how he believes you will respond to future infractions. I agree with the posters, like ThisisFine, who have said that they got the best responses when they were not permissive with line crossing. I found out a bit of trickle truth at about 3 months out (nothing as bad as what your husband has done here) and I went full on postal. I have never been more mad. I kicked him out of the house and told him he was out of chances. There was literally not another issue after that - he told me every tiny detail he'd previously left out and laid it all bare. I was looped in on everything after that.

I wish you nothing but the best.

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 6 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
5 years (and two toddlers) into R. Happy.

posts: 988   ·   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8737083
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HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 10:35 PM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

Your WH is hoping for a rugsweep, and so far, you are the only one who is putting in the work to save your marriage. From experience on here, this doesn't work. He has to be the one researching for his own help and he has to be the one that is pushing to save the marriage. Reading your various post, I think we all see that you are the one hoping to save things and R.

Your rant and bitching out the OW may have made you feel better for the moment, but it does nothing to wake your husband up. If nothing else, that might have given him a little ego boost seeing 2 women fighting for him. If you want real change, than you have to be willing to accept that your marriage is over, and be willing to give him real consequence. All he see right now is a pissed off wife whose fighting for him to stay. Let me know that you aren't willing to just stay, and give him a list of your needs and let him know you're willing to walk, but make sure you mean it. If all he sees is that you're willing to do whatever to keep him, how likely is he to change and want to take on the real work it requires for you to have a successful R?

posts: 1364   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8737289
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 FireandWater (original poster member #80084) posted at 3:26 PM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

Halftime2017 - Yes, you're right. I get it. I need to back off and let him take the lead on fixing himself. I can only focus on myself and my actions. I had a session with my IC yesterday and she provided some clarity. She said to tell him that only he can decide if he wants to be the husband I deserve. Or he can choose to sneak back into the A and be that person. He can't do both. I told her he tried to minimize the phone call by saying, "It was just a phone call. It's not like I jumped into her car and had sex." He didn't agree that he essentially jumped back into the affair and reignited my trauma response all over again by taking that call. My IC said, "It doesn't matter if you're in 100 feet of water or 1 inch of water. You're still wet." I told him that and his eyes got really wide and he was like, "Oooohhhhh." So I told him exactly what she said. I can't focus on him and his issues. Only he can do that. I can only focus on myself. I want to trust him, but only he can show me if he's worthy.

He has his first online IC session coming up on Monday. He showed me the profile of the IC he chose and said he's excited to meet him and start the process. I believe that. Hopefully he can begin to get some clarity about himself. It's not my job to guide him to it. This has been a process for me. I'm still learning.

posts: 105   ·   registered: Mar. 15th, 2022
id 8737482
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 4:06 PM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

He's lying. He's at least still emotionally attached to her if he's taking her calls at this point. He should have her number blocked and never speak to her again as part of the reconciliation, but that isn't happening. Plus, he lied about it.

OP, he isn't really reconciling with you. He's either still in a full-fledged relationship with her, or carefully stringing her along while he decides if reconciliation with you is what he really wants. Neither of these is the basis for you having a strong, loving marriage with him going forward.

Reconciliation works only occasionally. In your case, it isn't working. Get a divorce.

posts: 454   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8737492
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beauchateaux ( member #57201) posted at 4:43 PM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

Please forgive what probably seems like overkill but you never addressed these questions. I think it would be helpful for you, so I’ll repost:

Forgive me if you've addressed some of this before, but - do you still sleep with him? Have you kicked him out of the bed/room? Have you stopped doing his laundry and cooking his meals? Has his awful behavior been exposed to other people he cares about? Has he been forced to stop volunteering at the theater as a consequence of his poor choices?

Any of these? None?

I edit pretty much every post because I always hit submit and then think of 'one more thing' to say.

posts: 308   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2017   ·   location: Chicago
id 8737499
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 FireandWater (original poster member #80084) posted at 6:28 PM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

I’ll address the above questions. He’s still sleeping in our bedroom. This may sound like an excuse, but we have an adult son with autism who lives with us. He is hyper aware and very sensitive and we’re being very careful not to clue him in on what’s going on. If Dad was sleeping on the couch, he would ask why and get very anxious. I can’t do that to him. He’s also very bad about keeping things to himself and would inadvertently tell my mom, sister, his social therapist, etc. that Dad’s on the couch. I’m not willing to go down those roads.

I generally don’t cook his meals anyway. We have different schedules and eat different things. I pretty much concentrate on feeding myself. And I don’t do his laundry because he started doing all the laundry years ago. It’s the one chore that he does weekly. I do order groceries for everyone, clean bathrooms, clean the kitchen, etc. We had to work together the other night to move our old couch out to the curb for pick-up (the one they had sex on that I insisted on replacing) since a new one is coming tomorrow.

He knows he’s on thin ice. Getting a divorce isn’t such an easy thing. We live in a very expensive area. Our house is paid for. There’s no way I could afford to buy one on my own for just me and my son. I would have to leave the area, my family, my job, my
son’s support system. I’m not willing to just put up with him and his crappy behavior. But I need to exhaust all resources and options before I can just make that choice.

posts: 105   ·   registered: Mar. 15th, 2022
id 8737509
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:00 PM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

So he's really had no consequences. I mean you're upset, but that's not a consequence. And,he's still in contact with OW,so it's obvious he doesn't really care about that anyway.

I understand why he's not on the couch.

So why don't you make his no longer being a part of the theater,in which he met OW,and carried out some of the affair,as a consequence? That he actually thinks its just fine that he continue his involvement at this theater, speaks volumes about his lack of remorse, and entitlements.

99% of BS would have made that an immediate consequence. Why haven't you? Don't you think it's time you did?

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:01 PM, Friday, May 27th]

posts: 4669   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8737514
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Charity411 ( member #41033) posted at 7:29 PM on Friday, May 27th, 2022

I completely agree with Hellfire. Not because I see it as a punishment, but because it will force him to make a move, instead of just enjoying the status quo.

I can understand why you are shielding your son. You know best what he can and can't handle. Keep in mind, your husband knows too, and yet that hasn't stopped him from potentially blowing up his son's sense of well-being for his own fun and gratification. He probably bet from the very beginning that you would be the one to do the protecting for him. If you think about it, that works perfectly for him. Because you love your son it's very hard for you to demand consequences in this situation at home.

If you demand that he stop participation in the theatre groups, you will be eliminating his options for going out without you. He'll have to come up with other excuses for being gone for hours a few times a week, and it will become harder for him to lie. If he refuses to quit them, you'll have your answer. After all, how hard could the choice be between amateur acting and the destruction of his marriage and family. Refusing to quit would probably be because it would mean he can't see her anymore, as opposed to any extreme desire to act.

If he does agree to quit, these theatre groups will wonder why he did all of a sudden. I guarantee that there are members of it that knew about this affair. When other members start asking why he quit, the rest of them will find out in short order from those who already knew. And you don't have to say a single word about it to any of them, so he can't blame you for exposing him. He'll try, but good luck with that.

posts: 1639   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8737521
Topic is Sleeping.
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