Topic is Sleeping.
Herewego21 (original poster new member #79400) posted at 11:00 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
For the past couple of years my marriage to my wife has been on the rocks. We argue, disagree and never resolve conflict. I'm no angel in this matter, I do a terrible job managing emotions during arguments. A few months ago we had a bad blow up, and I grabbed her. Since that time she has stonewalled me and now tells me there is no emotional connection and will not have sex with me. Weekends usually consist of her taking our kids and going to the beach at her mothers. Sex was OK, and we were having sex once a week for a while. Now we have lost all connection. This drove me crazy, how can she tell me she has no emotional connection and tell me sex feels forced?
I ended up checking her laptop and Google Photos account. The deleted folder was full of kissy face selfies, nudes taken in our house, and also upskirt shots while she is out driving in her car. NONE of these were sent to me. I confronted her about it, demanded access to her phone (Which she has had private from me for a long time) She stated the pics make her feel sexy, and she was thinking about sending them to me.
She uses the Signal app for messaging, which deletes messages, but I can see in the app usage statistics that she is using it 100 times a day. (Sometimes when she was taking nudes, and telling me she had no emotional connection to me) She states she uses it for work. Everything I confront her about, she has a lie that makes me out to be a lunatic. I ended up getting her to delete the Signal app, but she immediately installed it a day later, and she obliged my request to share phone locations. I work from home, so I don't travel outside of our home for work.
Today, I confronted her about a parking receipt I found in her purse. It was for a hotel that she does not travel to for work. I asked her to show me her credit card statement, as she did not have any corresponding expense reports for this hotel. She told me 15 lies to get around being honest to me about that day at the hotel. There was a charge for $207.50 that cleared 3 days after the date of the parking pass. She still told lies and would not tell me the truth about the charges. Work related, food, etc. I continued to ask her about it and she told many more lies. I took charge, and called the hotel, and got an invoice. Sure enough, it was a room reservation. I immediately confronted my wife, and she fessed up that she was so distraught after our last fight that she was feeling horny, went to a room and pleasured herself. I don't believe this for one second.
Everything she says is projecting blame on me, (again I'm no Angel here) and now she wants to separate so she can have time to herself. I did recommend R so we can at least have a therapist help us through that part and help determine if things are too far gone, but she wants me to work on getting marriage counseling, while she works on a month rental for us to share time between.
AM I AN IDIOT OR WHAT? I don't believe any of her excuses and lies... Help.
scaredwoman ( member #78680) posted at 11:05 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
Unfortunately I think you know the answer. She is in the middle of a full blown affair and wants the "time to herself" to continue with the AP.
Others will be along to offer good tracking device information since you don't have proof other than hotel receipts. She's a liar and it's clear that you know this. I'm so sorry.
As for you not being an angel, none of us are. But that's never a reason for anyone to cheat. Her choices are just that...HERS.
Dkt3 ( member #75072) posted at 11:16 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
It can be hard to come to grips with my next statement. Think back to when all of this started, that would be about the time she started cheating.
This will be hard to do, your next step? Proceed with divorce, not separation until dictated by your State in order to start the process.
You will hear this over and over again. Doing so is the best and quickest way to get out of infidelity.
Grab a boat point it towards divorce and paddle your ass off, if you wife wants the marriage she will make the effort if not you avoid more bs, more pain and more time to happy again.
Blandy ( member #79252) posted at 11:19 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
If you can afford it. Get to IC. You first need help on controlling your anger. Secondly, you will probably need to hire a P.I. to catch indisputable proof.
Look into a VAR and if you have access to her car hide it there and check it every few days.
Outside of that, the red-flags are there that she's out with another person. If you want to R, you need to find who it is with, expose the affair to everyone that will care including the AP's Spouse/SO.
Right now, you have zero power in this, especially if you grabbed her in a violent fashion. Get yourself straight, then confront with evidence. Once she has no more wiggle room to lie and can show true regret/remorse do you even consider R.
To save your M, you have to be willing and able to nuke it to shreds and walk away.
Herewego21 (original poster new member #79400) posted at 11:23 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
Thank you to the responses. Holy shit this feels great to get off my chest. I know I'm no angel, two wrongs don't make a right either. I didn't mention we have 8 & 4 yr old kids.
My WW is a life coach and she practices a lot of self improvement and women empowerment, so i think she is just wanting to leave the relationship to prove she can make it on her own. However I think she really craves attention from men, and is likely getting it. My stance on this entire thing is if you are taking photos, deleting them, and you have apps that autodelete the messages - you have something to hide. It's the perfect storm of cheating in my opinion.
When I approached her today about the hotel bill, she almost immediately deflected that and placed blame on me for what I have done. I didn't take the nudes, and I didnt make her go to the hotel. I will never be able to prove if she was there with someone else that day. However, I reviewed texts between her and I from that day. She claimed she was going into a couple of offices that day, when she was at a hotel, instead of working. Can I recover from this? I am a bit of a jealous type, and feel like I have been betrayed and played. But she is caught red handed doing sneaky shit. Ohh, tomorrow is her birthday too.
Tanner ( member #72235) posted at 11:28 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
Sorry you are here but glad you found us. None of this is your fault, she cannot fix your marriage with an affair. Also marriage counseling is a waste of time and money while an affair is still going on.
She is in an affair most likely physical and emotional. You need to go into stealth mode and get to the bottom of it. Confronting her early will only send her deeper underground.
You need to build a case for divorce or know everything you can find so you know what to reconcile with. Either way it’s too early to make any decisions. Take care of yourself and read up on the healing library. Best Wishes to you.
[This message edited by Tanner at 5:32 PM, September 14th (Tuesday)]
Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R
BH M 31 years
Herewego21 (original poster new member #79400) posted at 11:35 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
I have known her 16 years, engaged for 5 (Bought a house early instead of marriage) then we have been married 9 years in June. Crazy thing is we fought like crazy 5 days after our Anniversary. Since then it's been terrible. 6/1 is our Anniversary. She was renting the hotel room 2 weeks later.
We have two daughters, 8 & 4. I'm terrified of D for their sake.
I confronted her immediately about the nudes (Saturday 9/11), and we talked for hours. After not having sex for about 4 weeks, we had sex 3 times in one night. But it felt forced and fake, almost as if she was pity f'ing me. I sort of didn't mind because I was hurt and rejected.
Yesterday, I got her to agree to share her phone location with me, if she has nothing to hide, why not?
Today, I confronted her about the parking ticket I found, and was much more secretive so I didnt lead on to what I knew. Either way, she told 50 lies to try and keep it from me, but I was able to go to the hotel and tell them I needed the invoice for work. I immediately busted her out on it. We talked for 2 hours on the phone, but she deflected most blame my way.
Staying strong, practicing 180 principles as we speak.
Blandy ( member #79252) posted at 11:35 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
One thing that I wish I would have done was talk to a lawyer that next day. While we didn't have much of anything at the time, I also had zero clues on what my options were. So the next bit of advice is to talk to a lawyer to see what D will even look like financially for you. It may or may not be better than you think.
And while I didn't have kids to consider during my D, I see a ton of people saying that kids can sense when something isn't right. At some point they will know and how you react is what they will accept as the way to do things. Make sure that YOU are setting a good example for them.
Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 11:39 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
Sorry you’re here. It’s a place most of us never thought we’d be. Listen to the collective wisdom here. If you follow the consensus advice, you’ll be far better off than if you don’t. In my view, you have all the evidence that you need. The Signal app and photos would be enough. But my God, who spends over $200 to get a hotel room to masturbate? If it were me, I would tell tomorrow – her birthday - that you’re not going to separate. Instead, you’ll be filing for D. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know.
I know none of this is easy, but the quicker you can get out of infidelity/limbo, the better off you’ll be and the quicker you can start to heal. Stay strong.
Blandy ( member #79252) posted at 11:56 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
"I would tell tomorrow – her birthday - that you’re not going to separate. Instead, you’ll be filing for D. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know."
HappilyMarried1 ( member #77296) posted at 11:56 PM on Tuesday, September 14th, 2021
I think you probably know if you have read many threads her what is going on, but you know now that your wife is never going to come clean or tell the truth about any of this.
Did you ask her if she had nothing to hide why she didn't just tell you this when she done it or for sure when she ask.
You got some choices to make: One (which I don't think is the best right now nor would she probably do it) is if she has nothing to hide agree to take a polygraph to prove that you are being a lunatic.
I would if it was me do the following lay low do not confront about anything else until you have undeniable proof of her infidelity. Some suggestions a VAR in the car and also a GPS tracker in case she turns her phone tracking off. The hiring of PI (if affordable)closely starting to monitor phone records and computer use history. Best of luck!
Herewego21 (original poster new member #79400) posted at 12:06 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
@HappilyMarried1 - I have reviewed the phone records, but they don't really paint a picture of infidelity, more of one of a busy person that uses their phone a lot for work. We are on a shared family plan, with discount through my work. When I was able to get ahold of her phone, I could see Signal app usage statistics. While she is telling me she feels sex is forced, and she has no emotional attachment, the timestamps of the Signal App Usage and her taking nudes upstairs in our master bathroom are right on point. When she finally showed me the app on Saturday 9/11, there were two messages in it, very old messages from mom/step father. Keep in mind, this app only imports your entire list of contacts. It only shows others who have the app installed.
She says she takes the nudes to validate herself, make herself feel good. But these aren't the pics you take in front of the mirror to see if you look good in an outfit. I don't think I can catch her in the act & maybe I have raised her awareness now that I'm on to her. Again she is now sharing her Google Location with me (Sort of like Find my Friends on Apple) but I'm assuming she could turn that off at any time, and I cant watch it all day long, nor do I want to. The only reason my suspicion was heightened here was because she told me she had no emotional connection and refused sex, as it felt "forced" - Well when i am the only one initiating sex, I could understand that.
nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 12:09 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
I think you need to start dealing with the reality that she is sleeping with another man. NO ONE pays $200 to masturbate alone in a hotel room for a couple of hours. That doesn't make any sense. She could have stayed home in the bedroom or locked herself in the bathroom for an extended shower for free. Don't fall into the trap of saying, "Well, I can't prove it so MAYBE it didn't happen." It happened. She's just not going to be honest with you about it. So is that a deal breaker for you?
Don't bother with marriage counseling. It's a huge waste of time and money while she won't be honest about what happened. The counselor may take her side and convince you to believe her lies. They may say that you're wrong and controlling for wanting some assurance that she is where she says she is and not meeting up with more men at hotels. You need to see honesty, transparency, and commitment from her BEFORE you go to MC.
As good as it may feel for her to agree to having location services on, don't trust her just yet. It's early and she is pushing for separation which is a big sign that she will keep seeing this OM or more. She won't get caught if she invites him over after the kids go to bed. If you're switching off in an apartment, she won't get caught if she invites him over. She can turn off location services while she goes to see him and tell you she didn't know what happened. Can you honestly say you wouldn't let her get away with it when your response has been to allow her to keep telling you ridiculous lies about the hotel? Act as if she is still seeing someone else as long as she wants to remain separated.
I agree with getting into IC. She was caught red handed at a hotel and your response is that you're a bit jealous and don't believe her? Really? Most of us were beyond angry/devastated at this stage. You're in for a rough time when you accept what she did and what she's likely still doing. You're in for a rough time if she slips up and does something obvious again during your separation or files for D and starts openly dating an OM. You need the support and to start dealing with your emotions when the shock wears off.
Marz ( member #60895) posted at 12:39 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
She’s neck deep in a sexual affair. That’s the reasons for the fighting.
She’s an unremorseful lying cheater. Wake up to your new reality.
Making excuses to do nothing will just keep you in limbo.
Your words right now are meaningless. She is putting her shiny new boyfriend in front of you and your family. She doesn’t give a damn what you think.
Never accept the unacceptable. File for divorce and let her go. She’s gone anyway. Or wallow in infidelity. You do have a choice.
[This message edited by Marz at 12:40 AM, Wednesday, September 15th]
Marz ( member #60895) posted at 12:42 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
Go online and review your phone bill if you want to know how long it’s been going on.
If her other man is married inform his wife.
[This message edited by Marz at 1:09 AM, Wednesday, September 15th]
Jameson1977 ( member #54177) posted at 1:14 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
Hi Herewego21, your WW is gaslighting you. Her lies are complete bullshit. If you (I don’t recommend) read the adultery sub Reddit, you will see others coaching each other when confronted. Their motto is deny, deny, deny, even when confronted with evidence that all of us here is evidence of an affair.
The sex is a simple way for her to distract you from perusing this further. She is isn’t connected to you emotionally, but has sex with you three times after you confront her! It’s all tactics. She is lying to you, don’t believe it.
SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 1:22 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
Hi OP, sorry you're here man.
Sounds like she's always one step ahead of you. You're finding receipts and asking her about hotel stays.
If you can afford it, hire a PI. They're pros, they'll find out what's going on and give you photographic proof of any shenanigans.
Aside from that, what are you going to do about resolving conflict in your relationship? If you do reconcile, you need to address it.
ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 1:44 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
You don't need a smoking gun here. It's not like divorce requires grounds anymore. Clearly, your wife is cheating. It's a bit of a stretch to believe she's taking erotic photos of herself and not sending them to anyone, but okay.. stranger things have happened. But 200 bucks for a hotel room just so she can masturbate??... no, not buying it. People have divorced for less than what you have already, and if I were you, I'd go get an attorney and file for divorce.
From what you've described, the marriage is an unhappy one anyway, so what do you have to lose??? She'll either decide she really doesn't want a divorce and be willing to do whatever is required to save the marriage, or she'll cooperate with your divorce. Either way, you've broken the stalemate you're living in.
BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7
No one can make you into a liar but you.
fareast ( Guide #61555) posted at 2:23 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
Your M has been rocky and you are an imperfect spouse. So what. Your WW is not a perfect partner either. The status of your M or your failings as a partner have nothing to do with her decision to cheat. She is cheating because she wants to do it. Period. Cheaters have a tendency to blame shift. It’s a typical defense response. But of course it is ridiculous crap. Every day millions and millions of married individuals feel unloved, disconnected, ignored or unhappy in their M, but they never cheat. Your WW has lots of legitimate options to address any marital issues. Her cheating has nothing to do with you. Do not accept any blame. Good luck.
Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.
Aletheia ( member #79172) posted at 2:49 AM on Wednesday, September 15th, 2021
Sorry you’ve found yourself here. There’s no doubts your wife is cheating on you for all the reasons already explained, and your wife is pushing for a separation & not to divorce so that she can reap the benefits of being your wife without the responsibilities of a wife, so can try out life with the AP & has you as back up, and also possibly to get her ducks in a row before she permanently leaves you.
I grabbed her.
I don’t know you and I wasn’t there but I hope this incident isn’t being played down with your "I’m no angel" comments. I’d be interested in hearing WW’s recount of that day. Irrespective of the adultery, if there’s issues of violence in this relationship, I’d be advising her to leave. Just as there’s no excuse to cheat, there’s no excuse to lay hands on someone outside of self defense.
Other than for the kids, why do you want to salvage this marriage? Staying only for the kids is never a good idea & regrettably, it sounds like your marriage has not been good for quite awhile and your wife wants out.
JMO, the app, receipt, lies, stonewalling, defensiveness, distance & projection is enough. But if you need solid proof hire a PI. Good luck.
If it were me, I would tell tomorrow – her birthday - that you’re not going to separate. Instead, you’ll be filing for D.
Topic is Sleeping.