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SORRY FOR THE LONG POST - SORRY FOR THE POOR GRAMMAR, NOT A NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER

This is my first post; I’ve been reading this forum for a while, but I've never posted but now I need some serious help. My soul and mind are collapsing.

My story is similar and yet different, like every story here.

DD was 9 months ago, we started “R” a month after or so.

We have gone through a lot and I was feeling somehow hopeful.

We made promises, made “forgiving” rituals”, spent endless time together, and really felt the love flowing despite some fights and challenging conversations. Yesterday I discovered something that has pushed me to the edge.

I think the moment to give up has arrived.

I was having a STRONG intuition; after seeing my WW constantly on the phone with her horrible friend that has caused us so much harm to our M. I’ve secretly accessed my WW device (she doesn’t let me access any device) to check what was going on, and OF COURSE, I found something.

The AP has contacted my WW wife’s friend to tell her that he tried to call WW but his number was blocked, to check how my WW was doing and if she was ok. My WW horrible friend that loves drama and has obsessively attached herself to WW, they have this obsessive friendship, has immediately passed the message, stirring the drama.

We had an agreement; if the AP tries to contact you, you tell me, and we approach this as a team. She agreed.

My WW didn't tell me that he was trying to make contact.

She spent the next two days thinking about the answer to give him.

She passed the message to her friend and answer that was something like: “BS and WW are working things out, I think she tried to contact you a while ago, but I know that she cares for you a lot”

Then both WW and her friend started to talk about that, rather excited, like two teenagers.

The AP answers that he had to disappear because he felt too guilty.

WW and friend chatted about and my WW was wondering why the AP had gotten back in touch; she is” heartbroken” (quote) perhaps she was expecting something else (restarting communication or the affair)

I realized many things by reading those text

- She is still lying and hiding things from me

- WW has still strong feelings for the AP

- He actually dropped her, not the other way around -My WW told me she had cut off the affair. Basically, I am a massive PLAN B

- No remorse, no mention of our R journey, no mention of what she did to us

- Is she just waiting for a sign for the AP to start a relationship with him? Is my "M" one text or phone call away to just disintegrate?

Honestly, I think this is the end.

After painful months of promises, time spent together, lovemaking, getting closer, etc this feels like another betrayal.

I think it’s time to D.

I doubt that perhaps is worth trying more, but on what basis?

I am exhausted.

I’ve nothing else left to give.

The sadness and pain are really, really affecting me. I feel like I’m being slowly poisoned, and my soul is completely shattered.

I'm ridden with anxiety, and suicidal thoughts are back stronger than ever

Please help me navigate this.

-------

This is my story in case someone wants to get the full context.

I’ve been with my WW for 14 years. We had an incredible love story and adventurous life. We loved each other immensely, lived together on different continents, dreamt big and chased them, and in a way, realized them.

We lived an incredibly powerful love story. She has been the most loving, supporting, caring, fun, exciting, beautiful wife a man can dream of.

There were also big problems in our marriage; constant financial struggle that really affected us, furious fighting, and (she said) emotional abuse on my end, my inability to control my emotions, mostly depression, sadness, and anger; her drug and drink abuse, and overall lack of stability.

Despite it all, we loved each other very much, and we still do. We have always been there for each other, support, helping, and inspiring each other.

And now the crack moment.

About 9 months ago the DD. I discovered a text on her phone and she confessed to me that she had slept with our old friend.

The day before, she took a hotel and spent a night with him. And a week earlier, when we had a fight and she left for a few days, she slept with him at his place.

After that, she ran away, spent a few more nights with him, lied to me extensively, and finally got back home after three weeks, because she had an imminent job starting. We spent a few days together, talking, crying, promising each other love.

During those days I discovered more lies, and she was still in contact with the AP.

We decided to separate. I left the country, spent a month in a spectacular place by the pacific, sort of an artist community to heal. It was of course horrible. She was texting me and calling me every day, telling me how much she missed and me and that she would do anything to fix our marriage, at the same time she was constantly in contact with the AP

I’ll spare you the details on the depth of my pain and despair.

I got back at our home, we decided to R.

She was working a lot, but we would spend every morning and night together; she would answer all my questions (was it true, were they lies? I don’t know) and I would feel that somehow we were on the right track. She was drinking A LOT, I guess to numb the pain?

Then I discovered she was still in contact with the AP. Big fight, she begs me for another chance. I say OK

Then a second time.

Then a third time.

In the meantime, she denies and gaslight, and NEVER let me access her devices.

I start to get paranoid, hack into her Instagram, read her texts, access her emails, and spied on her therapy session. I was going nuts, I was living in an alternate reality. I wanted the truth.

She says I am controlling, things and fights escalate: she decided to leave the country to go stay with her friends.

I went through the worst pain and insanity of my life. We were still in contact and telling how much we were missing each other.

We tried MC during that period, but the therapist on the first joint session, out of the blue, suggested a “controlled separation: My wife jumped on it, said YES, I didn’t want that, it seemed a suicidal strategy.

Emboldened by her friend, she started to tell me how abuse I had been in all our lives, how all was my fault, how I pushed her away to someone else. How things were never good between us, how terrible everything was. Because I was sad and didn’t want to lose her, I “conceded” on everything. I can see my faults in our marriage, but was she re-writing the past to make her less at fault?

All seemed lost until he called me and told me to go stay with her.

We spent two months together traveling from deserts through mountains, and heavenly beaches.

Just the two of us. Fighting, crying, sitting with our pain, talking, loving each other.

She quit drinking, I worked on self-forgiveness, abusive behaviors, and forgiving her.

We are back at our home, both trying to R and giving each other love, and spending all our free time together.

my opinion is moving this to JFO, her actions makes it crystal clear that you two are NOT in reconciliation.

More experienced members will be along shortly. Sorry you find yourself here.

[This message edited by elKAPPYtan at 10:03 AM, May 14th (Friday)]

I was the WS. I had what I thought were strong feelings for the AP after it ended. He ended things with me and established and kept NC. I can now see I was addicted to the drama and affair feelings and none of that really had anything to do with the AP being a viable romantic interest.

Generally, I think you are operating in the right fashion. In my own situation, I held onto the fantasy to keep those highs going. When hit with reality of what I was going to lose, that was when things got real for me.

She probably has already lost you, and for good reason. Either way, I think you need to do what's best for you, show yourself the respect she is not giving you, and stay as detached from the situation as you can while protecting yourself.

I do not recommend doing that as a manipulation, but I can tell you this should effect her enough to see some of the things that are actually true. That this man doesn't care about her and what's best for her. That she also doesn't care about him or what's best for him. Those things never exist in an affair because they are in such a selfish mode they are only thinking about themselves. Your wife doesn't see it because she doesn't want to, she wants the chaotic feelings for some reason. I learned I am more comfortable in chaos than stability, and while sometimes that actually benefits me there are other ways it's really one of my worst enemies.

Be angry, be done. She is leaving you no choice on that. You have to protect yourself from further damage and take care of yourself because she hasn't shown you that she is going to protect you from further damage. Whether or not she has an epiphany and that leads to other changes, is nothing more than speculation and not the reality right now of what you are dealing with.

I am sorry. Please know, and this is hard to take in - this has nothing to do with you, what kind of spouse you are, your value, or who you could be in her life. This is all her own shit.

If for some reason you do move forward with her in the future, this friend is now not a friend of your marriage and must be eliminated as anyone she associates with. That's a hard thing sometimes for a BS to do because in a healthy world we do not choose our spouses friends. But, this is not a healthy world and this woman is not operating in your wife's best interest at all. This so call friend will have to go in the future if any of this starts getting back on the right track again.

Thank you for your message.

I understand and agree with your perspective.

All these months, we had endless talks. I thought we were getting loser.

I felt a lot of love and presence from her.

We took trips, planned our future, participate in rituals, made love, laughed, and we sat together in challenging situations.

I just don't understand. I just don't.

The only thing I know is that I can't endure this.

I can't feel that I am PLAN B, after 13 years full of love and adventures.

And I agree about her friend. Since this woman has entered our lives (less than one year ago) there has been only trouble. I know she played a SUBSTANTIAL part in pushing my wife to have an affair.

I told WW to let her go. She never listened to me, accusing me of being abusive and controlling.

Even as I reply to you, I hear a part of my brain negotiate with myself, trying to contextualize, and already trying to swallow this and continue reconciliation and stay with her. My love for this woman, and our bond is so powerful.

But I think I've go to. I can't live like this anymore.

[This message edited by alucard at 10:32 AM, May 14th (Friday)]

First off...WELCOME to the BEST club you NEVER wanted to join (((HUGS))). This site has been a Godsend to me and you WILL get the help you need . Because we all have different perspectives...some advice may not fit your circumstance...so just take the advice that you NEED from the wonderful people on here...and leave the rest . We ALL want to HELP.

I have been married twice and cheated on twice. The BEST thing I learned from my experience and from reading other stories on here is that the "pick me dance" NEVER works. NEVER. There is also a saying on here that you have to be willing to LOSE the marriage in order to SAVE it.

From what I am gathering about what you wrote...your wife WANTS you until she has you. Then she WANTS the adultery co-conspirator. She has to make up her mind because you truly cannot have the reconciliation that YOU want with three people in your marriage.

We cannot change anyone else...ONLY ourselves. You can't NICE your wife back into your marriage...but you CAN set boundaries as to what YOU will allow. As you have written...conceding these boundaries will not work. She KNOWS you will take her back because you have TAUGHT her that. Dr. Phil says that we TEACH people how to treat US. Your situation shows that unfortunately .

What helped ME was that I wrote down what I wanted MY life to look like. I wrote down EVERYTHING I wanted...no matter how extravagant or fanciful. I then tweaked the list to come up with something that was realistic and fit into my desire for ME . I WANTED a happy and healthy marriage with a loving and faithful spouse. I brought this up to my H and told him that if he wanted this too...we could start working toward that goal. If he didn't...I would find someone who WOULD. Thankfully...my H agreed to what I wanted as to being what HE wanted to...so now we had a PLAN . We started working on this plan together...and I am happy to say we have achieved our goal .

This may or may not be something you both would do...but the GOOD thing about PLANS is that they aren't set in stone . If something doesn't fit in a few months...then you can change the plan to move forward. Being in limbo SUCKED for me. If I wasn't moving FORWARD...I was miserable . Having a PLAN to work toward was a key for ME to see the progress...or lack of progress.

alucard-

I am really sorry, but I have offer advice based on what you shared and it doesn't look very good. Her words say one thing, but her actions say the opposite. She is lying to you and has no plans to change that any time soon.

I would file for D. Tell her that she has lied too much and until she can prove with actions and 100% transparency that she doesn't see you as plan B then you might reconsider.

Hire an attorney. File and go dark on her. Find somewhere else to stay and turn off your phone when she tries to contact you.

Tell her she can have OM and her toxic friend, but you can't stay a part of this as her actions to date have proven that she doesn't deserve to be your wife.

She is blaming you and not taking responsibility for her choices. Still lying. Keeping friends that are clearly not friends of the M. She doesn't want R. She wants a husband and a guy on the side. Sadly, when she tries to get it all she will be left with nothing.

You don't need to do anything. Just remove yourself and she will implode all by herself.

Thank you.

And I agree.

We had a plan.

- Cur the affair

- Recommit to each other

- Understand what led there

- Work on yourself and get better

I keep my promise.

IC, MASSIVE spiritual development, I learned to manage my emotions, became clear, calm loving, and respectful in the communication avoided to always talk about the A, and focused on the future. Got me in great shape, I am the best I've ever been. Increased my income, I have the most saving I've ever had. Loved her with respect and understanding.

And still. Conspiring with her horrible friend behind my back. Again.

What other plan can we possibly work on? How can I trust her? How can I stay knowing that she constantly lies and hide things from me?

I am destroyed. I love her. I know she loves some. I guess her love for this other man(by the way, he was our good friend) is too strong, or she is too weak.

Even in the darkest moment, I was convinced we were going to make it. I feel so drained.

numb&dumb

That's my conclusion too.

I really didn't want to get here.

I really believed we could do it.

She seems so genuine and full of love and hope.

I guess there s a side of her that operates from a place different than the love we both feel.

I've to accept this and find the strength to move on.

I still cannot accept that all our history, our dreams, our hopes, and our memories will vanish like tears in the rain(yes I'm quoting Blade Runner)

One question: I promised her that I would not spy on her phone. But that's how I found out again the latest betrayal.

How do I tell her without letting her control the conversation and blaming me for breaching her boundaries, being an abuser etc?

[This message edited by alucard at 10:55 AM, May 14th (Friday)]

Love is a funny thing. While you WW continued to communicate with AP, directly or indirectly, she was not thinking about you.

Hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is. She clearly is indifferent to you enough that I wouldn't throw the love term around so losely.

Sometimes we mistakenly assume that familiar and safe are the same thing. This is simply not true. Things we know very well are very unsafe for us. Your wife is familiar, but she is no way safe. She can't even maintain NC which is step one of a very long process.

I would file for D. Then when she is served tell her that you know she is communicating with her AP. When she asks how, don't tell her.

Simply tell her she had once chance and she blew it. You might talk to her again if:

1. She loses her toxic friend

2. She accepts full responsibility for the A as it was her choice to have a PA/EA with OM.

3. She provides 100% transparency in all communications by giving you full access.

4. She attends IC to figure out why she is so broken that she lets others run her life (Toxic friend, AP).

5. Agrees to NC with OM and she immediately informs you if he reaches out directly or indirectly.

She thinks she is in a position to negotiate, but in reality, you hold all cards.

I think some IC would do you some good. I also detect a hint of passivity here. I think that is something you need to look into with a therapist.

When she calls you an abuser tell that having an A is the worst kind of abuse you can inflict on someone. Further tell her that by her twisted logic you would be justified to have an A or 10. Then remind her that you just can't betray your own values so therefore you've decided to D. She had a second chance and you find it would be foolish to offer her a third.

You are still trying to nice her back. It doesn't work.

You still don't have transparency.

The A is still ongoing.

You are not in R. You are in active infidelity.

One question: I promised her that I would not spy on her phone. But that's how I found out again the latest betrayal.

Unmake that promise. Have her promise complete electronic transparency.

If you don't recall, she broke her promise to not fuck other people. Sorry, but promises aren't really long term valid between the two of you right now. She made that unilaterally true. You are still adjusting to your new world. It didn't compute to you that you were promising to let her have secret communication with her AP. Now you realize that you did do that. You didn't mean to do that. She can't be trusted, so you are withdrawing all agreements based on trust. Unilaterally.

D.

At this point we shouldn't make this complicated.

For you, with what you posted, and your wherewithal, you should not be living with anything like this.

If you can really be faithful to a woman, you are in the emerald class out there. Why deal with repeat business from damaged goods. You showed her enough deference.

D.

I hear all fo you.

I know D is the right thing to do at this point,

And yet, even as I type, I hear a part of my mind trying to justify, to recontextualize the messages I saw.

As I type, she is again on the phone with her toxic friend, talking about how angry she is about being ghosted by him.

Still, part of me thinks we can save this.

How pathetic I am? What is wrong with me? Am I really such a loser, a nothing?

The saddest thing is that the first thing I think at the idea of D is that the AP will run to "comfort" her.

So unbelievably pathetic and unfair

Why not go ahead and confront her? I'm thinking that how she reacts might inform your 'stay or go' decision. Will she be repentant, realizing how wrong it was to break NC?.. or will she fight with you over her privacy, which she was using to violate your trust.

She will fight over her privacy.

She will tell me that I've broken her trust.

she will tell me that I've crossed her boundaries and that what she does is private.

She will tell me that I am a controlling abuser and that I will never change.

I know the answer. D.

I'm just destroyed. We had a magical love story. we grew up together through adversities and glory. I've been there for her thorn joy death and victories.

I just can't believe it's over.

ChamomilleTea

I'm so tired of all of this.

I don't think I've in me another fight, and neither does she.

Fundamentally, she does not value me or our marriage enough to protect us. Or she takes some for granted. Or I'm just PLAN B

She is too involved in the AP, her toxic friend, and the drama.

I realize she is a cake eater.

I can hear the back of my mind saying "She just wants closure". This is how pathetic I am

Why would she STILL want to engage with this person after everything we have gone through. Why is she so upset with him? There are so many things I realized she has not confessed me.

I think it's hopeless. She has done too much damage at this point.

I'm devastated. I can't believe I've to end my marriage. I love her immensely

[This message edited by alucard at 2:31 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

If you can't hold it together in a face to face confrontation, then consider writing it down. Leave and don't look back.

You are not in court.

You don't have to reveal the source of how you know nor do you have to prove anything. It's up to her to make you feel safe from infidelity.

Simply tell her you sense from her behavior (something you learned from her cheating) that she is back in contact with the OM.

That you sense her best friend and the OM have created a permanent wedge in your marriage that you refuse to live with. Because you deserve a better life partner.

You have no basis to trust her since from her past behavior she is a liar and a cheat. If she objects, ask if she'd take a polygraph test.

You can love her and still conclude that divorce is the best decision. Why? because among other things, infidelity is abusive - and you deserve better.

(((alucard))) I'm so sorry. It is such a trauma and so painful to go through this. It irrevocably changes the M. It also changes us

A D might wake her up or it might not but at least you will be on your way to getting out of infidelity and abuse. In the meantime I would practice the 180 and start detaching for your own emotional safety and to get stronger. Are you seeing a counselor for yourself. I would make an appointment and get support. Be sure to lean on friends and family during this time, they will help you too.