Newest Member: Serenity7

Reconciliation :
Destroyed. I think this is the end. Please , please Help me

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fareast ( Member #61555) posted at 4:29 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

“Please post respectfully and constructively keeping in mind the goal for this forum is to reconcile.”

You have received a lot of excellent advice to file for divorce while posting in the Reconciliation forum. Your WW’s actions are typical, defensive and blameshifting. You are understandably dead set on divorce without further discussion given her continued feelings for her AP. No one should be Plan B in their M.

This forum is for those working on reconciliation. You will get good advice on how to proceed quickly with your D posting in the divorce forum. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2794   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8659896
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 4:30 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

Broken NC's happen in R, but they ARE correctable.

Once is devastating to R. Many times is nuclear level. Pay attention to the actual story.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8659897
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redrock ( Member #21538) posted at 4:34 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

She was communicating through a go between. That’s communicating. You really have no foothold if you can’t even agree on that.

People who want nothing more than to fix the marriage don’t lie. They don’t breach boundaries or tell you that you are abusive or controlling to expect transparency.

You can’t change her or her perspective. Heartbroken. Argh... what a vomit inducer. She can’t be both... trying with hubby and heartbroken over AP. Working on the marriage and pining for her cheating buddy is the toxic juggling act for sure.

You can capitulate and ‘compromise’ on privacy and the guess what..... you may be able to stay married but that’s not the same as reconciling.

I tried the short cut too. Many of us did. Because love and fear and shared history get in the way. Either you learn to live in limbo or you get to the point where living one more day in the marriage is intolerable. You have to rescue yourself.....finally.

She is flawed and selfish. She is in love with her narrative... as victim. Dumped by her affair partner and abused by her husband. You can’t work with little miss foggy pants.

You want to help her, at the expense of yourself. Has that worked at all?

You don’t have to convince her that your boundaries are valid. You have to state them and defend them.

For me it was such a relief to put the burden down. I wanted to save us, even if I martyred myself a little. He agreed with me.... he thought that his affair should motivate me to be the wife he deserved.

Boy was he surprised when I finally pulled the plug. My advice to you... is to do nothing unless you mean it.

You deserve a true partner. She may never be able to be that. Unless you set those boundaries and mean it .....you’ll never find out.

I’m still married. It took a long time and a lot of work. It all started with me meaning it.

Meaning it doesn’t negate the pain and fear. You are on step one. You can do this.

[This message edited by redrock at 10:39 PM, May 15th (Saturday)]

I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

posts: 3460   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2008   ·   location: Michigan
id 8659898
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ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 4:38 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

When she contacts you, that is... IF she can get her immature tendencies under control, go ahead an own up to the checking. Remember, we don't call it "snooping". It's "checking" and checking is an opportunity for rebuilding trust. It's how the sausage gets made after an adultery, and you two were WRONG not to include it in your reconciliation recovery plan. Anyway, she's been acting weird, so you checked. And the problem is WHAT YOU FOUND. Don't allow her to make it about anything else but WHAT YOU FOUND. If she tries, shut down communications and walk away.

Remember that loving, caring people should NOT be saying or doing things behind their loved one's back that they wouldn't be comfortable saying or doing right to their face. And THAT's the issue here. She knew how you felt about contact with the AP so she went behind your back. Every time she tries to change the subject, you shut down the conversation until she's willing to come back to that.

She might be an ultra-stubborn specimen and it might take WEEKS for her to get it through her head that you're not willing to budge from this point. But, if underneath it all she wants to be with you, she'll eventually bend.

posts: 4520   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8659899
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ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 5:00 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

You deserve a true partner. She may never be able to be that. Unless you set those boundaries and mean it .....you’ll never find out.

Exactly. And that's all you're doing at this point... setting a boundary. ie. "I will not tolerate a partner who behaves one way to my face and another behind my back."

I think I told you in an earlier post that it's okay for conflict to be messy. It's okay for it to take time. It's okay if there are tears and frustrations. What's important is that you accomplish something with it. Your WW is NOT going to like this boundary, but it's up to you to make her understand that you are no longer willing to settle for less than that.

Boundaries aren't about making rules for your spouse to follow. They're about YOU. They're about what you're willing to tolerate from other people and what you're not. If you're wondering whether your boundary is fair or not, if it's about YOU and not the other guy... try turning it into a boundary statement. ie. "I'm not willing to reconcile my broken marriage if there is continued disrespect in the form of contact with the AP." Note that this boundary isn't a rule for your WW to follow. It's about YOU and your demand for respect. Now, don't get me wrong, as BS's we can fall into the trap of becoming authoritarian and arbitrary, but if you're checking yourself with boundary statements, chances are, you'll find any errors.

So, basically at this point, you've made the boundary and you're just enforcing it. It's up to her whether she wants the marriage enough to comply. If she does, yeah... she's still going to try to negotiate her way. That's nature. It's up to you to have strong enough boundaries to shut that shit down. Remember that our boundaries aren't arbitrary. They're about what's really important to us and about the things which make walking away preferable if they're not achieved. IOW, if your boundaries really do reflect your tolerance, you can't go wrong. If she walks, that's going to be your best outcome because your boundary was truly reflective of what you need.

posts: 4520   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8659902
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MickeyBill2016 ( Member #56459) posted at 5:18 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

She wrote me that she wants nothing but fixing the marriage.

Good.

Ask her to make a list of 5 things that need fixing and how she will do that, you make a list as well. See if there is an overlap.

Snooping on her...looks like you found something.

Sort of like you smelled smoke in the house so you looked for the fire. It is not snooping, it is defending the marriage from damage.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 11:23 PM, May 15th (Saturday)]

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1176   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
id 8659905
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RocketRaccoon ( Member #54620) posted at 6:00 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

Going to be blunt:

- Stop kidding yourself that your WW loves you. She loves what you provide for her; security. Once she finds that in someone else, off she goes!

- Stop pandering to her. You text exchange when you drove off shows a classic situation of control.

She took off in a huff so that she could stay in control. She expected you to stay at home and cry over her (she is still in control).

You somehow found some backbone and drove off for the weekend! You took control away from her.

You did not answer texts/calls for a short while, so you still kept control away from her.

Then you lost your backbone and gave control back to her by answering her.

She further took control by stopping any communications with you after.

Sigh....

You say that your WW loves drama. I have a feeling you love it too, or you would not keep choosing to get back together with her again.

Go try and find where you left that backbone, and put it back on, or you will be choosing to stay in an abusive relationship.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 888   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8659908
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 6:09 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

Yoh are right, I should have not answered.

I can't stand her being worried, but now I see clearly that it's just a control play.

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8659909
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 7:37 AM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

I agree you should stop talking to her for a bit. There is plenty of time for that down the road if she calms down.

If you take some time and read here in the wayward forum, you can learn how a truly remorseful wayward spouse responds when they break NC or do anything that triggers their BS. They respond with apologies. They respond with caring how they made their BS feel.

What they don’t do is respond d wit false equivalency. What they don’t do is respond with outrage. What they don’t do is blame you. What they don’t do is make you feel like you did something wrong in monitoring.

A remorseful WS would make it clear that you can view their phone and texts any time. That they have nothing to hide.

They would not have any friend that enables communication with the AP.

Have had done nothing here to destroy your relationship. As far as I can see, you are actually the only one fighting for it.

So stop feeling bad for her. You have done nothing wrong here. She’s trying to rewrite history on what she tried to communicate to the AP.

Again, as I said yesterday, if you talk or message at all, be simple and clear.

Communication of any kind to the AP ends our relationship. I heard what you tried to communicate. You left the door open. I cannot stay in a relationship with someone who is pining away for another man.

So I’m giving you what you want. Go figure out what you need and if it’s him, I wish you well.

If it is me, then there is a lot of work for you to do for me even to open the door a crack and start discussing it again. The needs to be real work with an Therapist who specializes in Infidelity.

My heart is broken. I am going to focus on healing it. If you are part of that process I need to see someone who cares about me and the pain you have given me more than she cares about anything else.

I no longer trust you. I don’t believe you have it in you to regain that trust. Prove me wrong. “

Then shut off your phone for a day or two. Be with your friends. Do other things. If you don’t have your own IC, find one and start working with them.

Stop focusing on her and focus on you.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3166   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8659920
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 12:50 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

you two were WRONG not to include it in your reconciliation recovery plan

To be clear, alucard, you were not WRONG about anything. I don't know why someone would come here to try to make you feel even worse by telling you did something wrong. You didn't.

You gave the gift of grace and reconciliation. You also asked her for transparency but she has repeatedly characterized normal monitoring of a person who has already broken trust as "snooping."

She returned your gift by repeatedly breaking NC, then tried to email the AP at some point not long ago, then when the AP reached back out to her she used an intermediary to engage in a fishing expedition with the AP.

(By the way, notice how manipulative and cunning this subterfuge is: she did this to give her plausible deniability that she didn't directly reach out to him. And notice how, when confronted, she then fell back on this to precisely gaslight you in a pinpointed way. Those who minimize this aspect of her actions are doing you no favors. Pay attention closely to what actually happened here.)

On top of this she has repeatedly refused transparency, abused you wtih DARVO attacks, used "argument by force" and unilaterally left the home when you asked simple questions in a kind way. Then further manipulated you with texts.

These are attacks on your psyche. This can't be overstated. These are emotional and psychological attacks after you've already been traumatized, then took tentative steps to offer further trust to someone who showed they can't be trusted.

You did nothing WRONG. You've given her multiple chances.

Stevesn, redrock, and rocket racoon all have good advice. Pay attention to what they've written.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:58 AM, May 16th (Sunday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8659936
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 12:57 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

Take her out of the drivers seat. You need to be driving.

Letting her control you is getting you nowhere.

That’s the only way you’ll get her to come along for the ride.

If that’s what you seek.

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8659937
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jb3199 ( Member #27673) posted at 4:14 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

I don't want to lose her, but I can't leave any longer knowing that she has feelings or some attachment wirh this person.

I want truth. She doesn't want to give it to me. Or I guess I don't want to see the truth. She is not ready to really let this person go. And there is nothing I can do

One of the pieces of advice that we are always given here after the discovery....or rediscovery....of infidelity, is to ask ourselves---"What do we WANT?"

The first thing that almost all of us wish for is a time machine.

Once we get past that fantasy, we often, unfortunately, entertain other more 'possible' fantasies---have my partner stop cheating and go back to the old relationship. But there is no going back. There is only going forward, or if you prefer to suffer, you can stay in the present.

But going back to the question of "what do we want?", we need to be very careful. This is where you, alucard, really need to take a long look at yourself in the mirror. You need to ACCEPT that 'wanting' to stay with her may not really be what you want the most. You need to be open to the realization that your 'wants' may not be healthy. Or happy. Or relieving.

I believe that you KNOW that you are worth so much more than she is offering. I believe that you KNOW that you don't want to be in this relationship unless she looks at you above and beyond any other partner. I believe that you KNOW your self-worth, but are in an internal struggle due to fears.

All of this anxiety? It is your core self SCREAMING at you. It knows that you deserve so much better than this. It knows that the nanosecond after the first round of infidelity that your wife wasn't contrite, and willing to give you anything that you asked for, that something wasn't right. So you made 'deals' with yourself to keep your fears in check. Her behaviors didn't change like you hoped, and you really had no other 'solution' to calm your inner turmoil. You basically put it on her to heal you.

Listen to your inner self that you are trying to keep repressed. Stop listening to your fears that are right on the surface, being as loud as possible. You see how that has worked out so far. I can GUARANTEE YOU that you would be MUCH happier with so much more INNER PEACE if you were single without this drama in your life as opposed to staying in the middle of this mess. Set YOUR boundaries, the ones that you have been repressing, and stick to them. Instead of looking at trying to save your marriage, take the view from the opposite side--You are set on divorce, and it would be your wife's responsibility to try to win you back. That comes with tons of work....work that she hasn't even acknowledged yet.....to even start the process of possibly being a worthy partner. Stop accepting crumbs of placation and allowing her back into your heart. Start realizing that every time that you are being called 'abusive', that in your case, it is a good thing---because it is only being mentioned when you are enforcing a healthy boundary. Learn to take her description of 'abuse' as what it really is....resolve.

Alucard, you are your own person. Don't forget this.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married 28yrs.(together over 30yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 3818   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8659965
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Graphite ( Member #76081) posted at 7:13 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

I know how horrific it is, that the person you once felt whole with is now only offering ypu a broken version of the love you once had.

Accepting that half alive version is not getting a diluted version of what you once had, it is getting a toxic zombie version that will eat you alive. Walk away.

It takes a leap of faith to find the resolve.

There can be no dialogue when things are this broken.

The best advice someone gave me after my D day was Change the locks to your heart.

Keep your heart in tact. Don't let the beyrayer in any more. You deserve better.

posts: 95   ·   registered: Dec. 31st, 2020
id 8659998
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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 10:07 PM on Sunday, May 16th, 2021

Brother I'm sorry that you're here, first of all your NOT in R, let me repeat that, you are NOT in R and NEVER have been, she has repeatedly betrayed you over and over again and still refuses to be transparent and still has the oudacity to call you out for "snooping" ? Come on brother, your WW is light years from being a good candidate for R, she's been pining for AP all this time. Forget about rituals, drama, and all her bullshit, she's a serial cheater and liar and you deserve so much better, life's too short, extricate yourself from this horrible situation, file for D and end this farce.

posts: 2411   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8660023
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 5:32 AM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

She called me. First angry blaming me of surveling her, than in years because she is sorry for everything, than telling me I'm being cruel.

So much pain. Was it worth? I'll never understood.

Moving out tomorrow

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660072
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 4:36 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

She’s telling and showing you everything you need to know.

Indecision is a cheaters best friend.

If you keep answering her calls you will remain her puppet on a string.

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8660144
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DIFM ( Member #1703) posted at 6:06 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

alucard, I don't question your "love" for your WW, but I do think you are more committed and driven by your fear of being alone than whatever you think "love" is. I think you do understand what has happened, who she is, the degree of unsafe she is to you, how none of this looks or feels like what "love" is to you......but I think you have committed yourself to bowing down to the alter of fear, such that none of what she says, does, or has done is going to deter you from trying to disregard the reality.

You will be a slave to that fear if you do not act on what you see, hear, read, and know is true, rather than react to what you fear from what you know is true. What is, is. You cannot act from a position of trying to hope or pretend that what is, isn't.

Find your strengths. It is clear from your posts that you get it. You know her responses are deeply unsafe and manipulative. She is doing the classic cheater rugsweep, blameshift, gaslight dance and expects that you will cave under the pressure of fear of being without her. Maybe she has been trained to expect that from you.

Once you know what it is that is motivating your choices, you become more accountable to yourself to work on making the best or "right" choices for you. You know who she is and how easy it is for her to act in ways that are manipulative to avoid consequences. Don't spend time debating that topic. Start making choices that will effect your positive outcomes.

posts: 1726   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8660200
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 6:18 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

Thank you all.

Your answers ars really helping me..

We spent the last part of the days yesterday takings a arguing on the phone and text.

She accuses me of being abusive. I'm asking her for the truth.

She gives me half truth. I told her she is lying and I can't take it anymore.

Shs says she has tried and can't take anymore my accusations and insults.

It's hopeless.

Here I am in tears thinking that perhaps I could have save this if I reacted Differently, or didn't check her phone. I feel like shit but I know that it's not my fault.

It's true I fear losing her but we have lost each other already

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660205
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This0is0Fine ( Member #72277) posted at 6:26 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

Her words are as empty as her soul.

She is nothing by a miserable little pile of secrets.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1329   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8660211
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 6:30 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

Si much pain.

I hear her voice, our laughs, our memories.

I'm crying like a baby.

I was going to forgive her. I was ready to grow as a person, to improve our marriage. I didn't want to lose her.

I'm so devastated. It's unbearable

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660213
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