Newest Member: Serenity7

Reconciliation :
Destroyed. I think this is the end. Please , please Help me

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This0is0Fine ( Member #72277) posted at 6:36 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

So sorry for you, alucard. I know how badly it all hurts. As long as she is blaming you, there is no path to R.

Your goal should not be to salvage your relationship. It should be to get out of infidelity and the constant hurt that it brings.

You can still make yourself a better person. Just without her.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1329   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8660216
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 6:41 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

I'm devastated. Completely destroyed.

Crying like a baby. I wanted nothing but loving this woman and healing our marriage. despair and agony are taking over my soul.

I missy girl. I miss the woman met and loved

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660217
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 7:04 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

I miss the woman met and loved

I am very sorry for your pain. We all know the sense of devastation and the storm of emotions.

The one thing I can offer here is to keep level setting your situation: You miss a person that likely never existed. You're missing an idealized person. It's natural to idealize our life partners. We're residing all of our trust in this person above all others, forsaking all others, and we want to admire them above all others.

But if that idealization is unwarranted, you have to look at it squarely.

You miss the wife you thought you had, not the woman you know now.

We spent the last part of the days yesterday takings a arguing on the phone and text.

She accuses me of being abusive. I'm asking her for the truth.

She gives me half truth. I told her she is lying and I can't take it anymore.

Shs says she has tried and can't take anymore my accusations and insults.

It's hopeless.

By continuing to entangle yourself and engage with her, you are allowing her to continue to gaslight and manipulate you.

The one being abused is YOU.

The only person who can put a stop to this abuse is YOU.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:07 PM, May 17th (Monday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8660224
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DIFM ( Member #1703) posted at 8:21 PM on Monday, May 17th, 2021

I was going to forgive her.

It is not possible to forgive behaviors that have not yet ended. You can want to. But until the lies and manipulations and deflecting responsibility stops.....for time enough to trust.....what would it be that was forgiven.

I know how devastated you feel. The pain of betrayal and lies and worse, attempts and manipulating reality so that the betrayer can avoid responsibility. The pain is deep and real. You have to sit in this for some time, but you must, at the same time, realize you have a better place beyond this pain. You have to own your own strengths and the ability to face what is and not how you wish they were. It is traumatic and daunting. But, you have you. That it is you that you can most count on. You must find your way to being content and healthy, without reliance on fear of losing what is clearly a painful and unhealthy thing to hold on to.

I am sorry for what you are going through. We all very much know what that feels like.

posts: 1726   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8660253
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redrock ( Member #21538) posted at 12:53 AM on Tuesday, May 18th, 2021

Nothing is set in stone yet.

She may be playing the biggest game of chicken ever. She may not. Prepare yourself for both.

She may be priming the abuse storyline to buffer any exposure of her affair and actions a separation will bring about.

You intentions and effort are admirable. I’m so very sorry for the pain you are in right now.

I never really understood forgiving behavior that is never acknowledged by the perpetrator. It’s supposedly for the BS. To me the key is acceptance.

It REALLY happened. She’s not interested in boundaries. She weaponizes language. She is showing you who she is, believe her!!

Even if you were the Class A perfect partner of all time, you’ll never be able to R with who she is today. No one could.

Can she change? Yes. Anyone can who is willing Right now she’s constructed a perspective where she’s a victim and the limited friend group supports her narrative. She’s entrenched.

She’s ripe for some exposure. Some input from someone who isn’t going to jump on her rationalization train. Family friends, acquaintances....

It’s time to take all that concern and love you’ve heaped on her and turn it toward yourself. Seriously.

And reach out for support from family and friends. You need it. It’s okay to ask for help.

Don’t sign back up for a half life with a remorseless cheater.

I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

posts: 3460   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2008   ·   location: Michigan
id 8660319
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 8:15 PM on Tuesday, May 18th, 2021

Thank you all for the support.

I found a new resolve

Update: I'm back in town, but not staying at my place.

We talked over the phone. Still accusation of being abusive and do not hear the pain and trauma that I inflicted her for all our lives.

However, she told me she regrets what she has done, and she will regret for the rest of her life.

I stick to my guns.

I take responsibility for my behavior, for the pain I caused her and I commit to work on myself and become a better person; however, until lies, betrayal, and manipulation do not end, until the truth is not restored until I'm not loved and protected, there cannot be any marriage. I gave her a choice. In the meantime, we are separating. I will leave our house and move out

[This message edited by alucard at 2:34 PM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660581
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 11:29 PM on Tuesday, May 18th, 2021

If you keep up contact you’ll never move on.

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8660655
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fareast ( Member #61555) posted at 12:16 AM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

It appears you have moved out and laid out for her what she must do if she wants a chance to try and rebuild your M. You have left the door slightly open for the possibility of R. Be strong and make sure she meets your boundaries for truth and transparency. As much as she feels wronged in your M, the fact is that nothing you did or didn’t do in your M, caused your WW to cheat. There is no justification for cheating. She cheated because she wanted to do it. She has to address her own issues that allowed her to cheat before you should ever consider trusting her again. Otherwise she leaves you no option other than to D. One of the key components for a WS to demonstrate is humility. Your WW is too invested in rationalizing her actions to protect her ego and pride. This leaves you nothing to work with.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2794   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8660672
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RocketRaccoon ( Member #54620) posted at 8:45 AM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

We talked over the phone.

Huh?!?

Why are you still in contact with her? Why are you still letting yourself be controlled by her? To date, all the interactions that you have had with her, ends up with her gaining more control over you.

Still accusation of being abusive and do not hear the pain and trauma that I inflicted her for all our lives.

Ok, lets say there is some truth in this, what pain and trauma did you inflict on her?

However, she told me she regrets what she has done, and she will regret for the rest of her life.

I hope you do realise that this is a lie, right? She is just saying that because she knows she will not have to prove it to you. She will be living happily with her AP, and still have you under her influence, because she gave you a little crumb of Hope. She knows you will treasure that little crumb, and will pine for her. She wins.

I stick to my guns.

If I were more skeptical, I would say that this will not last long. All your WS would need to do, is to call you, you will pick up the phone, she will shed a few crocodile tears, and you are hers again (please note that i wrote that YOU are hers again, not the other way around, as she has always been the alpha in the relationship).

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 888   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8660742
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 5:51 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

It appears you have moved out and laid out for her what she must do if she wants a chance to try and rebuild your M. You have left the door slightly open for the possibility of R. Be strong and make sure she meets your boundaries for truth and transparency. As much as she feels wronged in your M, the fact is that nothing you did or didn’t do in your M, caused your WW to cheat. There is no justification for cheating. She cheated because she wanted to do it. She has to address her own issues that allowed her to cheat before you should ever consider trusting her again. Otherwise she leaves you no option other than to D. One of the key components for a WS to demonstrate is humility. Your WW is too invested in rationalizing her actions to protect her ego and pride. This leaves you nothing to work with.

Yes exactly this.

I'm moving forward but gave her the chance to slow down or stop the process.

I'm feeling so incredibly sad. I know that underneath all this pain there is love, but right now I can only feel agony despair, and an immense sense of sadness

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660842
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 6:01 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

Still accusation of being abusive and do not hear the pain and trauma that I inflicted her for all our lives.

alucard, I'm confused by this. You've brought these same words up a number of times in this thread.

Please clarify: Is something being lost in the translation here? Is she actually accusing you of real abuse? She uses the word "abuse"?

And what is meant by that? Did you knock her around? Did you verbally demean her consistently, tear down her personality, to the point it would be considered emotional abuse? Were you cruel to her over a long period of time in a sustained way?

When I think of "abuse" I think of actual, real verifiable ABUSE.

Here's an example: Being unfaithful to your spouse and then gaslighting him repeatedly and refusing transparency on any level at all is ABUSE.

Here's another example: Falsely accusing a faithful husband of abuse is also a terrible form of ABUSE.

So what are we actually talking about here, alucard?

Is she just full of shit and continuing to gaslight you or is there any actual validity to this?

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:02 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8660847
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 6:04 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

I know that underneath all this pain there is love

alucard, I keep hammering on this and I'm not trying to be unkind, but you need to constantly check this tendency.

You don't know this at all. Her behavior is not loving. What you have to go on is ACTIONS, not WORDS.

Love is a verb.

You have no idea if "underneath" there's some inscrutable love for you.

What you do know is that she is carrying out very unloving actions consistently.

That's not love, brother.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8660849
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MickeyBill2016 ( Member #56459) posted at 6:34 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

I can only feel agony despair, and an immense sense of sadness

I think a lot of us can relate.

But the source of the agony is the toxic relationship with your WW. Since it takes two to R, and she does not seem to very interested in a real R, you are on your own to fix yourself.

"I will regret it for the rest of my life." is just a lie she is throwing your way to make herself feel good.

Moving out is a good first step. Good luck

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1176   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
id 8660856
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 6:47 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

yeah, I know.

She says that she is ready to tell me the truth. She is scared of my reaction, that I won't be able to handle.

I know she wants to save our marriage.

I just don't know if she can untangle herself from this dynamic with her friend and I still don't know the truth of her feeling for this other person.

I'm so goddam tired

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660858
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 7:53 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

I know that underneath all this pain there is love

IMO, human beings need to give and receive love. Giving and receiving are different activities, and we need to do both.

Also IMO, WSes are too likely to suffer from self-hate and/or self-disgust and low self-esteem. They sense a hole in themselves and eventually take a chance that an ap will fill that hole. Their problems make it impossible for them to take in the love that's available to them.

Giving love to someone who won't or can't take that love in will not make R succeed. R can succeed with most WSes only if the WS does internal work to be able to love themselves and accept love from others.

If your W doesn't do the work that she has to do on/with herself, you can't R with her, no matter how much love you give her.

Love is not enough.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26008   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8660875
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 8:14 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

She says that she is ready to tell me the truth. She is scared of my reaction, that I won't be able to handle.

So now she’s ready to tell you the truth? See what happened here? You showed some strength and she reacted.

I know she wants to save our marriage.

Respectfully, you don’t know that. Stick with what you know and can verify. What you can verify is that:

1. She has refused transparency

2. She has DARVO’d you and falsely accused you of abuse

3. She reacted to a kind soft confront by unilaterally packing her bags and leaving you

4. She broke NC AGAIN after doing it repeatedly, and engaged in a fishing expedition to see if her AP still had the feelz for her.

5. She continues to use her toxic friend as a sounding board and intermediary with her AP

6. She has been lying to you all thru a false reconciliation, and is now “finally” ready to come clean.

That’s what you know for sure.

Others may have better advice for you on whether to hear her out. I just don’t know if I have a good perspective on this since I am also dealing with lack of transparency from my own WW.

I will say it’s odd that she’s accusing you of unspecified vague abuse in the same breath as she is essentially saying “no really, this time I’m going to tell you the whole truth, since I’ve still been lying to you.”

I think you should take some time, slow down, really think and slow the communications down with her.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:51 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8660887
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 10:58 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

I know she wants to save our marriage.

Her actions don’t say this and her words are meaningless.

As long as you stay in denial you will remain where you are.

I know that underneath all this pain there is love.

Not from what you’ve posted. It’s all for her other man. Not you.

If you’ve learned anything it should be all cheaters lie a lot. That’s all you’re getting.

[This message edited by Marz at 5:02 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8660955
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 11:07 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

You are the only one that can keep yourself in limbo.

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8660960
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 alucard (original poster Member #78796) posted at 11:29 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

I know that I've been abusive emotionally and verbally during our marriage. (that's what she says).We had horrible patterns of fighting. She had drinking issues and would get mad very easily.

I've embraced her truth, and taken a path of growth.

I'm just asking for honesty on her part.

She says she wants to, just she doesn't want to hurt me more.

I know she has not been engaging with the AP, but the latest texts have shown me that she is not ready to let it go. I'm getting confused and having second thought about it, but I've to remember that she could have firmly close that door instead of being "fishy"

[This message edited by alucard at 5:31 PM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

posts: 92   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2021
id 8660970
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 11:41 PM on Wednesday, May 19th, 2021

I know that I've been abusive emotionally and verbally during our marriage. (that's what she says).We had horrible patterns of fighting. She had drinking issues and would get mad very easily.

Hmm, I'll be honest, without details this still doesn't sound like you've been abusive to me. It sounds like she has, though. Heavy drinker, instigates fights, cheats and gaslights you. Etc.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4218   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8660976
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