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Mr. F, based on my reading and posting here over the past 4.5 years, speeches like this are pretty much par for the course. When I’m feeling cynical, I see them as a last ditch effort to avoid the polygraph. Saying things like, "I can’t believe we have to go through with this for you to trust me", also seems like an attempt to make you at least take partial ownership of the current situation. I think you deflected that well. Keep on the path you’ve set and re-evaluate as needed/desired.

She thought about it. But,like most cheaters, she was arrogant enough to think she wouldn't get caught. She thought she was smarter than you,and would get away with it.

XANAX SUPPRESSES THOSE FEELINGS OF PANIC - That's what it does. It is for people dealing with stress and panic.

What was the dosage? .5mg? 1mg? More?

The box says 0.25. I think it's the smallest dosage there is.

The potential to betray was internal in them. All the charge needed was the spark. Opportunity, desire, never get caught, Bingo. They were very aware of what they were doing.

That's some scary shit. So you believe it was only a matter of time? She always had it in her? I just can't wrap my head around it. She's very attractive and she got hit on pretty regularly but she never gave those morons a second thought, so what was so different about this one? I don't get it.

You fell out of love, you struggle in your current relationship and when there is someone new you can fall in love with somebody else. I get that, it happens, totally respectable. But to say you love someone and yet you do this, I just don't understand it. I will probably never understand it, it's just not in my head to fully comprehend what is going on in their heads.

I told her many, many times that if she wasn't happy she should say it. We would either work on our relationship, fix what's broken or we would go our separete ways. She's adamant ale our problems were not a real reason, but they were easy to use as a justifications. Pretty sad, huh?

I am struggling more and more now since the date of the court hearing is coming closer. I would never imagine I will be divorce because my wife cheated on me. It was so not like her. But I guess we all thought that, right?

MR. Flibble,

Perhaps you should have a frank talk with your friends that care for you that right now isn't a good time for a new love interest. That's just more noise in a messy situation that you do not need.

My opinion, is that your wife still thinks there may be hope for the two of you. That is why I suggested the separate homes and really some separation in both of your lives for her to realize that this is over.

If she passes the poly, will you be satisfied with the results or doubtful due to possible xanax use?

I thought they were half-joking about finding me an "suitable replacement" and I was surprised when they introduced us. I told them to cut it, don't worry

My opinion, is that your wife still thinks there may be hope for the two of you. That is why I suggested the separate homes and really some separation in both of your lives for her to realize that this is over.

That's obvious, she makes it very clear she's not giving up. I get love notes on a daily basis. My friends told me to brace for a fight and they expect her to fight the divorce but she hasn't done a thing to stop it yet. I hope it means she came to terms with it and she will focus all her energy on a future.

That separate homes issue - it won't happen in a few months. We are looking for a place for her, but the market's pretty bad right now and we have a firm set of requirements so it might take a while. The house is pretty big, we have our separate bedrooms now so I don't see it as an issue right now. And to be honest, it is nice to have a family dinners and pretend everything is alright from time to time.

If she passes the poly, will you be satisfied with the results or doubtful due to possible xanax use?

I don't know. I try not to put too much weight on a poly. I still doubt their validity a little bit. But I hope it will give me some peace of mind either way.

She takes a blood test the day of the poly, so I am not afraid she would try to take something.

But to say you love someone and yet you do this, I just don't understand it.

The problem is not the complexity of the situation, but it is that you can't accept the logical answer. Because that's not what you want it to be. You prefer that what your WW said is possible but you are not able to understand it.

I am not saying this in relation to the current feelings of your WW. But in the process of starting an A and while the A is going on, it is not possible for her to be in love with you.

And it's not possible that she loves you enough if she could be able to start an A where she can risk losing you and her family.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 12:55 PM, April 19th (Monday)]

She's adamant ale our problems were not a real reason, but they were easy to use as a justifications. Pretty sad, huh?

That the reasons are just justifications is pretty common to Waywards. A wayward admitting to that isn't and is a decent sign. The brokenness internal to the WS is the cause. Very seldom is totally rational thought involved. If you go down the R road it may be of interest to get approval to discuss with her and her IC what the why's were if they've been able to identify them. That and what her plans are if she finds herself in the same place again.

For now, it's just best to keep walking your path. Deal with that if she passes and if you feel R is still an option afterwards.

MrFlibble,

You have 46 pages of advice. Personally, I wouldn't be able to handle the barrage and the conflict. Just pass on by this post if you want.

I'm going to approach your new friendship/relationship with this person from a different perspective.

I'll be blunt. I don't think she's an emotionally healthy person and good for you. She knows your situation. Frankly, you are in a delicate state emotionally. A healthy person would see you have many conflicts and understand that. Your FIL may be alive for years. By your own account you intend to stay with your wife the entire time. An emotionally complete person would not want to start a friendship or relationship with you under those terms. I think that if you were more emotionally healthy you would realize this too.

I'm sorry for what you are going through.

I don’t think the “fight” against this will happen until after the Poly.

She’s possibly hoping you will go back to how you were before the most recent reveal of the two visits/burner phone. Despite you making it clear the Poly won’t change anything she holding onto that little bit of hope.

I don't know. I try not to put too much weight on a poly. I still doubt their validity a little bit. But I hope it will give me some peace of mind either way.

She takes a blood test the day of the poly, so I am not afraid she would try to take something.

I hope the poly will give you peace of mind and not more questions.

I know some of us never get the full truth of the Ws's affair. I actually got more of the truth after I had left my WS but only because the AP became pregnant. And that was months later.

I just can't wrap my head around it. She's very attractive and she got hit on pretty regularly but she never gave those morons a second thought, so what was so different about this one? I don't get it.

Stop trying to. She gets it, and that is the problem. Trying to understand the ways of those that are comfortable with betrayal and manipulation is a lose lose proposition.

Stop trying to figure her or it out. Accept it for what it appears on the surface because that is what it is. No deeper dive needed. Or, perhaps I should say, "getting it" will not come, no matter how deep or long the dive is into her choices.

You should do whatever feels right for you, but you must understand that what you are witnessing, feeling, and seeing in your WW is not unique to you or her.

But do I believe she was thinking straight in those few months? I wouldn't say so. She said it herself and I was there, I saw that she was not acting like the person I married and my best friend. She was different.

This applies to the majority of BH's that found their way to SI. You are reflecting what most cheated on husbands also saw, believed, and felt. Of course she seemed different. Living a life of betrayal propels one to be, act, often even look different. It is not coincidental, it is a normal and usual. The acting not like the person you married is exactly reflective of what was happening. Seeing or sensing it would be normal and expected.

So.. it's done. I just sent the last email with final confirmation on those questions. I will spare you any details because a lot might get lost in a translation (not an english native speakers here), but I should have an decent idea of how true are her answer to following questions

1. Was this her first affair during our relationship?

2. Did they have intercourse?

3. Did thay have oral sex or any kind of sexual contact besides what was already admited

4. Were they in any kind of mutual contact after the NC message was sent?

5. Did she send him explicit pictures of herself?

The poly guy was great and he gave me a guidance on how to word my questions better to make sure there are no holes and "technically true" answers.

But it still sucks, I had many moments of "wtf I am doing" today. I took a day of tomorrow and it's time to get hammered. I bought a bottle of my favourite rum and I plan on locking myself in my office and just.. think about things.

Thank you all here who came to help. I appreciate you help, especially those who knock some sense into my head from time time

MrFlibble,

Have you considered asking her about the latest timeline? Something to the effect of "Is the latest timeline completely accurate and complete?". If she is still providing trickle truth or omitting something, this will capture it. It would also help you understand if there is anything else she hasn't disclosed that your questions might miss (additional meetings, etc.).

I don't know. I try not to put too much weight on a poly. I still doubt their validity a little bit.

Polygraphs are far more reliable than the words and assurances of cheaters.

The poly guy was great and he gave me a guidance on how to word my questions better to make sure there are no holes and "technically true" answers.

Between now and the actual polygraph is the perfect time to put the pressure on and grill your wife for the real story.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:39 PM, April 19th (Monday)]

I know you’ve said a lot of things to each other. So you’ve probably discussed this too. But I think it’s important to say something to her before the test. Read Joseph’s Letter in the healing library for some guidance.

So going in to the Poly you might want to re-iterate something like:

“We are getting divorced. If someday we decide to try to build a new relationship it needs to be based on full honesty. The real thing you have to answer for yourself is do I know everything you do about the affair. Can you honestly say that to yourself and answer that you are a completely truthful person.

Hiding things from me because you think it will save our relationship is the wrong path. If we will be able to start something new down the road it must be based on you not hiding anything and having a clear conscience that you have revealed everything about your betrayal.

This poly is a chance to do just that. But honestly you yourself are the best lie detector. If you truly have told me everything, and have been entirely truthful then you are on a path to becoming the person you should want to be, no matter who you are with down the road.

If you have not, now is the time to do so, as any attempt at rebuilding needs to start with every detail out in the open ”

Good luck on the test. It shouldn’t change that much but I think if she passes it will at least could be a building block for you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:37 AM, April 20th (Tuesday)]

She gave me what I hope is all remaining Xanax pills and agrees on a blood test on the day of the polygraph. She had a little speech prepared, all the same story of how sorry she is, everything is her fault, she can't belive we are at a point where I feel like I need to subject her to a polygraph, she's so sorry for everything she has done to me and so on. It was very emotional and I felt like a dick just sitting there not saying anything.

Your wife is a skilled manipulator. You are meant to feel like a dick. That was her whole purpose for the speech, how sorry she is (not really), and of course she takes the time to blame shift. Telling you she can't believe that you would subject her to a polygraph. The same polygraph she has offered to take twice or as many times as necessary to convince you she is worth reconciliation.

I just asked her what outcome she expected when she decided having an affair was a good idea. No answer for that. No GOOD answer I mean. She didn't think apparently. I think she just didn't think she will be caught.

She didn't think she would be caught. Like all cheaters everywhere. Your wife is no different. She assumed you wouldn't be clever enough. Even if caught she believed she could fool you. Just look at your first attempt to reconcile.

She has two university degrees, she's the smartest person I know, yet she DIDN'T THINK. How stupid that sounds?

Education doesn't prove your wife is clever or smart. Narcissism doesn't help either. There are so many variables so many moving parts to an affair that even the smartest of cheaters gets caught. They all operate under the assumption they are too clever, that they have thought of everything.

I have read the saying "When people show you who they are, belive them", but I have trouble using this saying when it comes to my W. She has been my life partner, my best friend and the person I trusted the most in this world for 13 years. That's a long time. She was always there for me, gave me a helping hand and no matter how cheesy it sounds, she made a better person, showed me a way and if I told you my success (professional and person) is just my own doing I would be lying.

It is true. Your biggest issue from the beginning is your inability to separate the woman you believe you are married to vs the woman you are actually married to. As damaged as they are narcissists can mimic your values and emotions. Many narcissistic people have an eye for a good investment. They will invest in you because your success is their success. That in no way means they will stay loyal to you.

I have read a few stories here and there, and quite often there is a history of abuse, lies and whatnot. We simply do not have that in our marriage history.

Whatever abuse made your wife the way she is would have happened in her formative years, before she ever met you. Her home life as a child with her family is where you will find your answers.

Maybe I really sound like this, but I never said my wife was an innocent victim, helplessly fallen to a predator. She knew very well what she was doing. But do I believe she was thinking straight in those few months? I wouldn't say so. She said it herself and I was there, I saw that she was not acting like the person I married and my best friend. She was different.

Your wife pursued the other man. Narcissists don't do it any other way. They do the choosing. She was different. Actually this is the first time you saw the real her.

Do I belive she regrets everything and wishes she would say no like she did a thousand times before?

Your wife's regrets that she has been caught. That you have seen her true self. That her carefully constructed image is lost to her. That she has lost control over you and the narrative. Your wife does not regret the harm she has caused.

My friends told me to brace for a fight and they expect her to fight the divorce but she hasn't done a thing to stop it yet. I hope it means she came to terms with it and she will focus all her energy on a future.

Listen to your friends. Your wife will fight it is only a question of when, not if. She will never come to terms with anything that is not her way.

she can't belive we are at a point where I feel like I need to subject her to a polygraph

Is this verbatim what she said? I find this line very confusing. You did not originally need the polygraph. You're not subjecting her to anything. She went out of her way to offer and later arrange for the polygraph. You have that in her letter. Why would she say this and make it look like you're making her do it other than to feel bad for herself or make you feel bad for her? This is the victim mentality that she will need to work on regardless of what happens.

What's worse is you would not have needed the polygraph had she have handed you the burner phone on DDay and allowed you to read through the texts. Instead, she smashed it. She'd be in an even better spot if there were no more lies and TT after DDay too. So yeah, maybe she should believe it because she destroyed a key piece of evidence that could have exonerated her. Unless the phone didn't exonerate her at all and instead incriminated her further.

I just asked her what outcome she expected when she decided having an affair was a good idea. No answer for that. No GOOD answer I mean. She didn't think apparently. I think she just didn't think she will be caught.

You're right. And this is why you don't need to accept "I'm stupid" as an answer for anything. She's not stupid. She made a calculated decision to accept OM's advances and reap in the ego kibbles from it. She just didn't think she'd get caught because she had the burner phone and was following his advice.

She doesn't have to give you any answer besides "I wanted to." WHY she wanted it and HOW she allowed it to happen knowing she was risking you and the marriage is something she needs to figure out in IC. She KNEW that sex was a line too far, but she thought everything would be fine if she tiptoed up to it over and over again? Doubtful. More like she knew she could probably talk you out of consequences by saying she never went a line too far for you and used that to her advantage. Sad if true that the only thing stopping them from boning was that little detail.

She may come a satisfying answer for you or maybe she won't. It's only important as far as understanding it so that she will never do it again which is also why it can't be some combination of saying "I didn't like what my H was doing. I didn't like where our marriage was at. OM made me do X, Y, and Z. My parents did something to make a cheater." because those aren't exactly things SHE can change by making someone else do or not do whatever supposedly caused the cheating. It's got to be her saying, "Yes, my H did stuff I didn't like but I decided to cheat instead of talking/counseling/separation. Yes, my marriage was not where I wanted it to be but I took a hammer to it when I should have found a way to try and change it or end it. Yes, OM was very forward with me and pushed boundaries but I kept agreeing, feeding into it, and participating. Yes, my family sucked but they didn't make me choose this." Somewhere in there could potentially be a decent answer but she needs to actively be thinking about it and looking for it. If she doesn't find it, she's at risk. Things with you won't always be good. The marriage/relationship will get stale again. Both are especially true after infidelity. A future OM will be pushy and offering ego kibbles. Her past remains the same and her core behaviors will too if she doesn't work hard to change them.

My friends told me to brace for a fight and they expect her to fight the divorce but she hasn't done a thing to stop it yet.

I question this. Do you think if you agreed to R that she would want you to drop the D? I consider her throwing out all the stops, arranging the polygraph knowing it would buy her some time and lend credibility, cranking up her "good wife" game, and directly asking you if a pass means R is a clear fight against the D. Because if you agree to R, why would you even bother with continuing the D? After the separation starts and as the court case moves forward towards its conclusion, you might see her change and make it hard on you for not R'ing. So they're right in that you should at least prepare yourself even if she doesn't. Better safe than sorry.

Which Rum is it?

Have you considered asking her about the latest timeline? Something to the effect of "Is the latest timeline completely accurate and complete?". If she is still providing trickle truth or omitting something, this will capture it. It would also help you understand if there is anything else she hasn't disclosed that your questions might miss (additional meetings, etc.).

I have and decided against it. It is too broad topic and there is no way of how to cover it with one yes/no question. We talked about her timeline a lot, and I highly doubt there will ever be a point when there is everything that ever hapenned. I doubt she even remembers everything, most of their meeting were in July/August. I am all about milestones, those are important to me right now. So what if he gave her a car ride six times intead of four times she told me. What's the difference?

I finished the bottle last night and feel like shit today. Well deserved I guess.